Do you believe your type changes during your life?

[xerx]

Changing your type would radically change how you think, most of your habits and peculiarities, what you like and dislike, all your intertype relationships and how you remember your memories. That's what's at stake.

[Jarno]

Changing your type would radically change how you think, most of your habits and peculiarities, what you like and dislike, all your intertype relationships and how you remember your memories. That's what's at stake.

And your face would change to get the new VI.

[Aleksei]

And your face would change to get the new VI.

VI is a stupid concept -- especially static VI. As Jungian personality inventories have little to no explanatory power on the genetic basis of behavior (given that, yunno, Jung wasn't a neurologist, and neither were Augusta, Gulenko, Linda Berens or pretty much anyone who's fiddled with his ideas), physical appearance (which is upwards of 90% genetic) isn't likely to be predictive of type in any meaningful way.

So, no, your face wouldn't change. Your demeanor might though, if dynamic VI is actually accurate.

[Crispy]

I'm unable to VI and therefore, it does not work.

Good to hear.

[KeroZen]

Could it be possible that VI skills are linked to particular functions use, implying people would be more or less efficient at it?

I for instance, without having any definitive opinion on the validity of VI, often realize that I notice pretty much (even unconsciously) patterns in people faces, but something really hard to explain (almost comes from the guts) like if there were only a rather large but finite amounts of "molds" (i.e templates) and yet leading to an infinite amount of phenotypes (external expressions, when taking minute details into account)

Those sound like basic observation skills to some (me included) but when sharing my views on that around me, I realized many people didn't agree or didn't see this at all...

[Bardia]

I believe different aspects of people can change, but I find it difficult to believe that the way you metabolize information changes.

This and I would add that I think a persons understanding of him/herself changes as they get older and that might have an impact on what type they see themselves as.

[Marie84]

I believe different aspects of people can change, but I find it difficult to believe that the way you metabolize information changes.

This

Although I've wondered if type could change if your brain is damaged or operated on, since I've read about stories of people who experience radical personality changes after a head injury or brain tumor and what not

[Aleksei]

Good to hear.

Ad hominem. Surely you can do better than basic fallacies?

As an aside I'm pretty sure an ego-Ti (let alone a base) would at least consider the potential inconsistency of using facial fucking features to type personality. Food for thought.

[Words]

And your face would change to get the new VI.

Yeah i've thought of this too, but I think that they way we think also influences our face over time, the expressions etc, so maybe the subtle changes would result in different facial looks (ie the look of the face not particularly the genetic part of bone structure).

Some S types for instance with an interest in stereotypical N things can look a bit more 'intuitive' ime.

Devalued functions oppose our values system. In the case of super-ego functions, they are functions that we might feel curiosity about, but they're opposed to our usual approach to life, to what we consider important, and we usually don't consider them too worthy of consideration (especially under closer scrutiny) as they deal with the same situations as our ego block functions, but in a manner we are ill-equipped to handle. Oftentimes we try to emulate the super-ego block in order to become more balanced people, but we always find that we can't handle it properly, and revert back to our ego functioning. For me as an Fe-ego, that usually means trying to get my life in order (Te-role), and then having everything fall apart around me due to my utter lack of discipline. Recently, I swore off IM for a month so I could concentrate on my studies (I have a veritable mountain of final papers to finish)... and logged in to see what was going on two hours later.

Guess that's the strange thing, as I understand it you typed as ENTP? I find it odd that someone could complete a questionnaire (however you were tested) and come out strong in T questions and weak in F questions, only to then realise they are weak in T related activities and also strong in F related activities. Do you test as a logical type on socionic tests also?

You are born a Type
You live as a Type
You die as a Type

Type does not change. This has been known by even Aushra Agusta herself. If someone claims they changed type and provide more evidence for the changed type than the original, in reality they were the 2nd type all along and trying to kid themselves into being infallible. Anyone who follows these twisted trends are unable to think for themselves. It makes no sense for type to be able to change.

It's this sort of thing, which may of course be absolutely correct, but it makes me wonder about why...

eg... 'Type does not change' as far as i'm aware nothing in socionics is empirically validated so does what you say come from experience, or the laws of socionics or something I don't know about that perhaps you've read?


Eh...BTW.. i'm not really disputing what others have said from a POV of 'it's wrong'! i'm just curious as to the answers is all.

[Aleksei]

Guess that's the strange thing, as I understand it you typed as ENTP? I find it odd that someone could complete a questionnaire (however you were tested) and come out strong in T questions and weak in F questions, only to then realise they are weak in T related activities and also strong in F related activities. Do you test as a logical type on socionic tests also?

I normally test as ENFp, but I don't identify with Socionics Fi at all. In MBTI I generally test borderline T/F, but I've ultimately concluded (through function analysis) that I'm ENFP, with ESTJ as a second possibility.

I'm dualized though. My is very good.

[Creepy-male]

I'm dualized though. My is very good.

I actually think intelligence tends to get conflated with in this community. Just look at, oh, any of the Ethical posters. (Marie and Silverchris are fairly current examples of Ethical types who write well put-together and intelligent posts. (I think, in Silverchris's case. I don't actually read your posts man, they're impenetrable for me ))

So basically you just said you were intelligent and capable of reasoning and applying your intellect Welcome to having an IQ > 120

As a total side note I think types with strong are actually able to clearly verbalise how they think, and mentally get from idea to idea. Their reasoning would be explicit in their own minds--much like how Ethical types are good at verbalising how they understand feelings/relationships.

As always, the above is just speculation built off theory, and I don't have any real-world reports to base it off, so don't use it as gospel or dogma

[Words]

I normally test as ENFp, but I don't identify with Socionics Fi at all. In MBTI I generally test borderline T/F, but I've ultimately concluded (through function analysis) that I'm ENFP, with ESTJ as a second possibility.

I'm dualized though. My is very good.

Cool.

It's always good to have a dual(s) around to keep the DS (Ti) topped up.

Ti in the leading position (esp ISTjs) can be quite strict and rigid, which from what i've read goes well the the particular ethical aspect of ENFjs.

But yeah, the P thing causes problems, and it's dead easy to get confused with the T/F depending on eg mood, personal circumstance (eg having to be 'logical' in a particular environment) mood - a T type having to worry about personal relations.

Glad you got your type nailed.

[Saberstorm]

Do people change types or subtypes?


If so, how does it happen?

A change to quasi-identical seems possible, as the powerful demonstrative function could simply clarify strongly to become the new lead ego function. What the person was ignoring before become something that they embrace in their new self. They in turn, choose to reject their former style of creativity, as their old ego becomes subconscious. Their weak suggestive function becomes their new vulnerability, their "hidden agenda" is repressed to become the role function.

However, do any of the "official" Socionics experts, like Augusta and so on, actually believe that type shifting occurs?

Could what looks like a change in personality type be a change in subtype instead?

[Crispy]

There's like a 10 min window before you are conceived where you can change your type/subtype but the option is disabled once you begin. Choose wisely.

[Morcheeba]

Do people change types or subtypes?


If so, how does it happen?

A change to quasi-identical seems possible, as the powerful demonstrative function could simply clarify strongly to become the new lead ego function. What the person was ignoring before become something that they embrace in their new self. They in turn, choose to reject their former style of creativity, as their old ego becomes subconscious. Their weak suggestive function becomes their new vulnerability, their "hidden agenda" is repressed to become the role function.

However, do any of the "official" Socionics experts, like Augusta and so on, actually believe that type shifting occurs?

Could what looks like a change in personality type be a change in subtype instead?

Someone else just started a thread asking the same question. You absolutely cannot change your sociotype or your subtype. Alot of people on here would say that you can change your subtype, but I disagree. I've known too many Enfj's to know I can't pull that off. The high energy coupled with their ability to conflate and is so foreign to me, I really wouldn't know where to begin. I would think anyone who tries to be a different subtype would come off as silly and clueless as to who they are.
Enneagram type is another one that can't change but for a different reason. It's like comparing nature vs. nurture, your sociotype is purely biological while your Etype was solidified when you were a child and didn't have a foundation (ego) to choose or understand why you have subjective feelings to begin with. This is the auto-erotic stage; you can't make up your mind about something as complex as personality if you operate on the level of an animal. If I could've done that, I would've chosen to be an 8 I think, hence my personal goal in life. Does this make any sense? Or do you really want to waste energy trying to be something you're not?

[munenori2]

I think types change people.

[noid]

I think types change people.

I dont think changing type is possible, according a great importance to your ego dont make you another type imo.
But perhaps changing subtype is something wich can happen. Probably sx introvert , who seem to be generally more attracted to demonstrate their "strenght" if ive understand, perhaps more frequently use their first extraverted function ?

[Jarno]

A change to quasi-identical seems possible, as the powerful demonstrative function could simply clarify strongly to become the new lead ego function. What the person was ignoring before become something that they embrace in their new self. They in turn, choose to reject their former style of creativity, as their old ego becomes subconscious. Their weak suggestive function becomes their new vulnerability, their "hidden agenda" is repressed to become the role function.

what is this for mystical bullshit.

does your VI facial features change too, when changing from personality?

For the record. you can't change type or subtype. you can change very little to your body and mind.

[Codie]

What would be the point of socionics existing at all if your type could shift? You realize all of the intertype relations would too... so suddenly your dual would turn into your conflictor?

[Reuben]

@walker31

so that you know who's your new conflictor

[Nowisthetime]

Do people change types or subtypes?


Could what looks like a change in personality type be a change in subtype instead?

Type doesn't change. Never! Subtype can change, but it can take several years and requires a lot of work and probably a life crisis or something.

Gulenko has written someting about DCNH subtype change:

http://socionics.kiev.ua/articles/types/podtip-95/

And last but not least, an issue that inevitably arises in dealing with socionic typology. Everyone knows that the human psyche - the formation of a mobile. How to relate the fact that the dynamics of the individual in time and fixity sotsiotipy? Ha this legitimate question has no definite answer enough in the available literature socionic, as part of our theory can answer it as follows. Subtype can evolve. This is a semi-rigid formation, which may change under the influence of natural environment, or targeted education. The rate of evolution, however. small: for an explicit shift to a subtype for many years. Apparently if it does happen, it is not more than 1 - 2 times in a person's life.
Evolution is basically on a scale of "ignoring-connectivity." If you are exploring the psychological type of man, discovers that this scale is not defined, it means that a person is in an intermediate state. If such a state, for whatever reason is delayed for a long time, there is a fifth subtype - transition. We shall denote it 0.
Zero subtype - is, in fact, difficult to predict the manifestation of a person for each of the four common subtypes - D, C, N or H. Internally - people are not satisfied with the way of life they lead now. 0-subtype - a man without a rod. He has, as a rule, low self-esteem and looking for a new life style. This subtype is most often an intermediate stage, after which a person can go to the next level. Ha respects the zero structure is reflected in the negative. Man in the transition state is equally difficult to get along with any of the usual psycho. Greater understanding, however, he finds with the H-subtype, which tends to smooth out sharp edges and respects a man of his search for Ya

[Absurd]

Do people change types or subtypes?

Both on this site.

If so, how does it happen?

One was typed wrong in the beginning, or typed him/herself wrong.

What would be the point of socionics existing at all if your type could "shift"?

None at all, unless it is evolving per InkStrider.

[DividedsGhost]

Do people change types or subtypes?


If so, how does it happen?

well, we have to assume 16 types fits something innate about people. this may or may not be true, representing with the functions and types. but it just has to be good enough, i suppose.

so is possible, yes.

is it likely, no.

[Nico1e]

Do people change types or subtypes?

I wish I could give some kind of evidence against this. I feel sure that the answer is no, but I can't prove it. I can tell you that when I was younger I used to read dozens of self-help books as I tried to change my own behavior, and I tried so many things that didn't work.

For instance, it always bothered me that I had trouble getting tasks done. I could start things but not finish them. Meanwhile, I envied other people who scheduled their time and finished everything they started (this is associated with Rationals - I don't mean that it's always 100% true, but in general). I would have tried to become a Rational because it seemed like their lives went more smoothly in so many ways, but I couldn't. I felt like they were able to get more done instead of just wandering dreamily around to random interests the way I did.

I've never known anyone who totally changed their personality. However, there are people who, for instance, embrace a new religion, and they might disconnect from family members and other people they used to know, because they believe something that is totally different from what they used to believe. This happens. Sometimes people leave behind a group of people they used to know, or they move away and leave behind the country where they used to live, and things like that. They might decide that they disagree with a lot of the beliefs and the culture of their former group of friends or their former country.

It's possible to change the content of your beliefs, to change *what* you believe. But I agree with socionics and other personality typing systems that say you can't change your *way* of processing information.

People can change their personalities drastically if they have a traumatic brain injury. We hope this doesn't happen often. Maybe someday they will invent a way to change our own brains deliberately, but I myself don't like the idea of people making permanent changes to their physical bodies - there are so many ways it can go wrong.

Still, you can meditate and focus in your mind, trying to 'look for' all the various different functions. I've done that myself. I've tried to imagine or notice the various functions operating. This can be interesting and I'd encourage anyone to do it and have fun exploring. I'd write about it in detail but I haven't done it a lot lately and I have some other problems that make this difficult to do. But I'd love to meditate and observe the functions if I could.

[woofwoofl]

*points to signature*

[silke]

There's like a 10 min window before you are conceived where you can change your type/subtype but the option is disabled once you begin. Choose wisely.

lol

What would be the point of socionics existing at all if your type could "shift"? Think about that You realize all of the intertype relations would "shift" aswell... so suddenly your dual would turn into your conflictor? concept!

yeah, that just doesn't make any sense - you wouldn't have a type if you could easily mold into another one

@walker31

so that you know who's your new conflictor

and get more 'chicks' because then the entire socion becomes your dualz ^^

[Reuben]

@siuntal

SHH DUN LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG

@N1cole

I believe personality cannot change either, but behaviours that leverage on personality differences can highly benefit us. For example, you may need to find a way to profit by wondering around randomly doing what interests you (e.g. blog your findings, video log it, take pictures, write commentaries, anything that's got to do with a wealth of experience and knowledge in various fields that may not be completely related, i.e. breadth not necessarily depth). Perhaps, find some kind of employment that does not enforce the need for schedule (only goals).

When my company is up, people like you will be employed in such manner: no obligation to work at office, free work schedule, goal-based (not time based) projects. The key is to make you want to complete as many projects as possible so that you can start new ones, while allowing you to even disembark on your current one if you see greater potential in another (then we can leave the old project to another team, possibly some IJ/EJ one).

[Absurd]

@siuntal

@N1cole

Funny how you still didn't figure out how to use the quote function.

[munenori2]

Reuben, if you don't change your profile pic to a non wolf, I'm afraid you're just going to have to be confused with Lobos. Forever!

[anndelise]

Re OP,
Chemical changes, such as medications and other drugs, can alter which information one can easily access/process. Such that a person on drugs/medications can appear to be a different type than what they would be off the drugs. But off the drugs, the chemical changes change again, altering which information is now easily accessed and processed.

In this kind of case, the person has missed out in obtaining their most useful information during the time they were on the drug/medication. And so it's almost like a piece of their life was wasted...in terms of information gathering.

A personal example,
The first week I was on Wellbutrin, I had primarily Se info available to me. I was also unware of potential consequences of my actions, and had only one viewpoint (rather than my usual jumping around quickly between points of view). It was like a mini-vacation for me...which wasn't realized as such until after that initial week, when the medication seemed to stop working.

The Great Cocktail Experiment I was subjected to was a complete blur in my life. At one point I was completely zombified. Tv went to fast for me to follow. Someone would ask me a question, and it would take me time to figure out that someone had said something....that they had said it to me....that it had been a question...what the question was....what the answer was (i could barely handle yes/no questions...nothing more complex than that would be processed)...and then finally answering. By this time, the person had already left or moved on to something else. It literally took me minutes just to answer simple yes/no questions.

A friend of mine had to be hospitalized because he was on a medication that prevented him from accessing and processing his usual info. An emergency had happened, he wasn't able to respond because he had nothing to draw on...the available info of the situaton was not something he had experience dealing with, and so had no "stock" to draw from. This created a downward anxiety loop to such a degree that he submitted himself to the hospital psyche ward.

And finally, many people do recreational drugs BECAUSE the drugs will alter their mind in such a way that it opens them (temporarily) to different info and different processing.

[Cat King Cole]

That's an interesting. I became hypomanic while on fluoxetine (aka prozac), and probably looked to the outside world as some sort of insane caricature of (you know that guy called Robin Williams? Yeah, he has manic episodes; I was like that). Risperdal also zombified me and apparently dicked around with my memory such that I can't remember ever having been on it.

I know I fall into something that seems like an EP-like state (enhanced focus on goals, torrent of ideas, big increase in working memory such that intractable problems fall together like a jigsaw, easier flow states; the usual stimulant profile) when I'm on a high dosage of good old caffeine.

[Absurd]

Chemical changes, such as medications and other drugs, can alter which information one can easily access/process. Such that a person on drugs/medications can appear to be a different type than what they would be off the drugs.

Bingo! Totally agree. Never knew what's the point in typing oneself under the influence to begin with.

A friend of mine had to be hospitalized because he was on a medication that prevented him from accessing and processing his usual info [...]This created a downward anxiety loop to such a degree that he submitted himself to the hospital psyche ward.

Bwahaha!

[DividedsGhost]

Some days I'm a duck. Other days I'm a peanut. Some days I eat peanut butter and in other days I want something else.

So days I'm excited and stimulated, temperament changes,



other days not.



alright, yo, yoz, peace out dawg.

[Nico1e]

When I'm on even extremely low dosages of antidepressants, I become manic. I also become extremely friendly, and also inappropriately sexual. When I used to take St. John's Wort, I would walk into work and smile and wave and say Hi to everyone in a very friendly way, and during that time period, while trying to guess my own type, I decided I was an ISFP, because I seemed very people-oriented.

It also caused me to look directly into the eyes of everyone for long periods of time with a blank expression on my face. I would do this while walking down the street or in other public places and looking at strangers. Intense prolonged eye contact is a sign of drug use, not personality type.

I would happily talk to anyone randomly for long periods of time, but I was also emotionally numb and could not feel anything subtle, just this blank, blind, continuous, meaningless cheerful mood. I felt shallow. It also made me much more extraverted, and I would blurt out whatever thoughts were on my mind without censoring them. It would have been very difficult for anyone to guess my type during that time period.

So in the 'schmystem of schmubtypes,' I would add: drug free subtype, or drug using subtype. Those would be temporary subtypes, of course. If someone is on drugs, it changes their behavior so drastically that it does indeed become hard to recognize them.

[Reuben]

@N1cole



@Absurd

I really like chicken.

ME TOO!!

@Mune

Who is this lobos guy? Is he very predatory and likes the taste of raw meat? He competes with my precious resources

[Morcheeba]

When I'm on even extremely low dosages of antidepressants, I become manic. I also become extremely friendly, and also inappropriately sexual. When I used to take St. John's Wort, I would walk into work and smile and wave and say Hi to everyone in a very friendly way, and during that time period, while trying to guess my own type, I decided I was an ISFP, because I seemed very people-oriented.

It also caused me to look directly into the eyes of everyone for long periods of time with a blank expression on my face. I would do this while walking down the street or in other public places and looking at strangers. Intense prolonged eye contact is a sign of drug use, not personality type.

I would happily talk to anyone randomly for long periods of time, but I was also emotionally numb and could not feel anything subtle, just this blank, blind, continuous, meaningless cheerful mood. I felt shallow. It also made me much more extraverted, and I would blurt out whatever thoughts were on my mind without censoring them. It would have been very difficult for anyone to guess my type during that time period.

So in the 'schmystem of schmubtypes,' I would add: drug free subtype, or drug using subtype. Those would be temporary subtypes, of course. If someone is on drugs, it changes their behavior so drastically that it does indeed become hard to recognize them.

Have you been tested for Bipolar? The fact that you became manic while using antidepressants is a red flag. If you are Bipolar, you absolutely cannot take any kind of antidepressants, it will make symptoms much worse. If you do have this condition, you should be on anti-seizure meds. you wouldn't believe how effective they are.
Another thing to consider is most people identify their illness as being essentially who they are. Depression in particular is the ultimate deceiver. Once you find the right meds. you would be surprised at how you perceive the world once you're healthy.

[Galen]

It's been hypothesized that the secret to type-changing lies within the center of the earth's inner core. Best get out your mining helmets and hit the dirt, science can't wait another day!

[Reuben]

Galen you had to go out and say it didn't.

THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OUR BUSINESS SECRET, BETWEEN YOU AND ME ONLY

[Reuben]

Yea and I had bipolar before, it felt very similar to what N1cole is describing. Don't get yourself diagnosed, just lead a balanced life.

[Leader]

People like to unnecessarily over-complicate things, I may look like one subtype depending on my mood. Im just a SLE.