ENTps, ISFps: making friends & sociability

[astralsilky]

Which type on average do you think is more likely to make friends easily - i.e., collect a wide range of contacts for fun activities within a short period of time (say, 6 months at a new job): ENTps due to their extroversion, or ISFps due to their Fe skills?

Also, ENTps are said to be generally weak at determining the proper psychological distance when interacting with people. Do you think this is true or false, and why? Also, are ENTps really "that" cold? How do ISFps experience their relationships with others, by contrast? Which type is more emotionally resilient? Do ISFps come across as snobs? Are they really snobs?! Which type typically comes across as friendlier - say - in a new environment?

Please share what you have encountered regarding the relational natures of ENTps and ISFps. And distinctive gender differences, such as spotting female ENTps and male ISFps, etc. Thanks!

[jelly grass]

i'd say that ENTps are better at making friends easily. the ENTps i know seem to have alot of friends. but i (ISFp) don't have very many friends :/ i think it's also hard for me to make friends...because i usually wait for the other person to initiate something. if i do initiate something, if they dont seem to reciprocate my enthusiam about a potential friendship, or whatever, then i give up.

"Also, ENTps are said to be generally weak at determining the proper psychological distance when interacting with people. Do you think this is true or false, and why?"
well, in my experience.. true. i think. my best friend had an ENTp boyfriend...
before they started dating "officially", they would talk alot
after they were dating, he talked to her less
then sometimes he would talk to her alot, but after that he sometimes went a whole weekend without saying a word to her (which may sound like a short amount of time to you, but in our eyes it wasnt)
but then he started talking to her more

and i don't know if that really answers the question. but his backandforth-ness could be seen as improper, i think.

[redbaron]

My dad and one of my best friends are ISFp. They do not make friends easily because they usually wait for the other to initiate but they are very loyal once the friendship is established. I don't think they come across as snobs at all! They have a shy smile, they tend to be self-effacing, they are willing to join in when the atmosphere is fun, they love to laugh and have a good time. They pay attention to every detail but don't say a lot. They both look sort of sort of sullen as their default expression. (which always makes me want to run up to them and try to make them laugh, which is pretty easy actually) Once you get them talking they can talk a blue streak....seriously. They both have slow movements and are slow to express themselves in words. Sometimes they get tongue-tied. I think they are both very sensitive also although they don't always show it. Their feelings are hurt pretty easily and it's hard for them to say their sorry if they've done something, they tend to deny and blame someone else. LOL

[Creepy-bg]

I think they are both very sensitive also although they don't always show it. Their feelings are hurt pretty easily and it's hard for them to say their sorry if they've done something, they tend to deny and blame someone else. LOL

that's true... it's easy for me to admit that I've screwed up or done something wrong if i'm the one initiating it, but if I'm confronted with something... I'm like "ahhh ahhh no I didn't!" lol

[redbaron]

I think they are both very sensitive also although they don't always show it. Their feelings are hurt pretty easily and it's hard for them to say their sorry if they've done something, they tend to deny and blame someone else. LOL

that's true... it's easy for me to admit that I've screwed up or done something wrong if i'm the one initiating it, but if I'm confronted with something... I'm like "ahhh ahhh no I didn't!" lol

I'm actually a bit that way also.

[jelly grass]

My dad and one of my best friends are ISFp. They do not make friends easily because they usually wait for the other to initiate but they are very loyal once the friendship is established. I don't think they come across as snobs at all! They have a shy smile, they tend to be self-effacing, they are willing to join in when the atmosphere is fun, they love to laugh and have a good time. They pay attention to every detail but don't say a lot. They both look sort of sort of sullen as their default expression. (which always makes me want to run up to them and try to make them laugh, which is pretty easy actually) Once you get them talking they can talk a blue streak....seriously. They both have slow movements and are slow to express themselves in words. Sometimes they get tongue-tied. I think they are both very sensitive also although they don't always show it. Their feelings are hurt pretty easily and it's hard for them to say their sorry if they've done something, they tend to deny and blame someone else. LOL

that was a good description (:
and the sullen look as a default expression is true.. at least for me. my mom always bothers me about how i look sad and stuff, when i'm really not.

[astralsilky]

Thank you for your input so far!

IME, ENTps are good at attracting people to them when they want to ~ they know how to get attention, especially through either sharing knowledge, displaying group leadership, or through peculiar antics to add humor and just generally draw admiration from a crowd. They can attract a wide range of acquaintances and seem to need to spend time more in groups than one-on-one; however, they definitely have their limits. When they get absorbed in their projects, they shut everyone out and don't want to be bothered, and this occurs regularly. They appear to care more about how others regard them whom they do not know well, rather than their closest friends and intimates. This may change in later years.

ISFps, maybe more so than any other type, appear nervous and shy around people they don't know well especially if the situation is open-ended.

But I haven't known enough of either type to perceive any norms.

[astralsilky]

My dad and one of my best friends are ISFp. They do not make friends easily because they usually wait for the other to initiate but they are very loyal once the friendship is established. I don't think they come across as snobs at all! They have a shy smile, they tend to be self-effacing, they are willing to join in when the atmosphere is fun, they love to laugh and have a good time. They pay attention to every detail but don't say a lot. They both look sort of sort of sullen as their default expression. (which always makes me want to run up to them and try to make them laugh, which is pretty easy actually) Once you get them talking they can talk a blue streak....seriously. They both have slow movements and are slow to express themselves in words. Sometimes they get tongue-tied. I think they are both very sensitive also although they don't always show it. Their feelings are hurt pretty easily and it's hard for them to say their sorry if they've done something, they tend to deny and blame someone else. LOL

that was a good description (:
and the sullen look as a default expression is true.. at least for me. my mom always bothers me about how i look sad and stuff, when i'm really not.

Interesting.

[astralsilky]

My dad and one of my best friends are ISFp. They do not make friends easily because they usually wait for the other to initiate but they are very loyal once the friendship is established. I don't think they come across as snobs at all!

IME ISFps do not come across as snobs, but I've read stuff asserting that they might. Hence, the gathering of more input.

[Elizabeth]

Interesting question. From my experience, I think ENTps would make more friends faster. I have seen the ENTp I know seek out people to talk to. Actually, this ENTp can make a very good first impression on people. He's funny and attentive (at first). He knows how to put the charm on to get friendships started. I think he's good with acquaintances. Once you start getting past that into more of a closer friendship and you're around him a lot more things start to get a little strange. He'll make rude or hurtful comments and sometimes not even realize they're offensive (from what I understand a common ENTp trait). Even his actions will at times be offensive...like avoid being around certain people for some reason that only makes sense to him. So basically he's good to have casual fun with in groups, but in one-on-one settings things become more difficult. Also I have found that this ENTp can be kind of destructive in groups with some sort of hierarchy. He never agrees with how things are run. Though he doesn't usually confront someone in leadership to tell them what he doesn't like...he likes to complain to other group members and then creates some kind of silent rebellion and will try to get his closer friends to do the same. I've never seen him work as a leader in a group so things might be different if he was actually in charge. He just doesn't seem to like to be stuck under the authority of other people.

As for me as an ISFp. I think it's more difficult for me in a new environment. I'm not so great in groups. Usually when I'm in a larger group of people I'll stick by a couple I know a little better. I also don't seek out people (like the others said). I wait for them to come to me. When I talk to people I try to be friendly and upbeat...I can put on the Fe. Even after making social contact with someone I probably won't go up to them. I might wave or something to be friendly...but I usually wait for them to come to me if they want to establish more of a closer friendship. I often attract the socially maladjusted because I'll talk to pretty much anyone. The problem with that is I can get into uncomfortable situations with people I don't really want to become close friends with. Then I have a problem getting them to leave me alone because I don't want to hurt their feelings and can't actually tell them that I don't want to spend time with them...so I end up doing my best to avoid them. As for a group with a hierarchy...I usually just go with the flow of things. I think a lot of the time I either don't notice or choose to ignore small problems in the hierarchy. As long as it's not putting stress on me personally, I probably will just let things be. If things did start to put stress on me, I would quietly find a way out of the situation.

Yes, I think they can be weak at determining proper psychological distance. This ENTp is constantly disappointed by people. He seems to have high/unrealistic expectations. If someone doesn't meet his expectations he sometimes becomes very disappointed. To the point of even becoming depressed and angry for a few days after the disappointment. Once this has happened the person can rarely, if ever, redeem themselves in his eyes.

This will probably touch on the "coldness" as well as the proper psychological distance question a little more. (Keep in mind that these are just my experiences with one ENTp that I dated for 9 months and have known for nearly 3 years.) I think pretty much anyone can at times be cold, but there have been moments when I truly thought that this ENTp didn't have a heart. There have been a few times when I felt like I was being punished by him for stupid reasons that any "normal" person would have forgiven. He wouldn't respond to calls, text messages, emails, etc. for days sometimes after one of these incidents. It was so hurtful. Not to mention that I was worried sick because he would often become really depressed and I didn't even know if he was ok. Then when he finally did respond to in some way, he was very reluctant to be nice to me for several days.

Ok...I have more to say, but that's all I have time for right now since I'm at work. It took me forever just to write this much.

[Elizabeth]

Thank you for your input so far!

IME, ENTps are good at attracting people to them when they want to ~ they know how to get attention, especially through either sharing knowledge, displaying group leadership, or through peculiar antics to add humor and just generally draw admiration from a crowd. They can attract a wide range of acquantainces and seem to need to spend time more in groups than one-on-one; however, they definitely have their limits. When they get absorbed in their projects, they shut everyone out and don't want to be bothered, and this occurs regularly. They appear to care more about how others regard them whom they do not know well, rather than their closest friends and intimates. This may change in later years.

Yes! This is very much like the ENTp I know.

[Creepy-bg]

...I often attract the socially maladjusted because I'll talk to pretty much anyone. The problem with that is I can get into uncomfortable situations with people I don't really want to become close friends with. Then I have a problem getting them to leave me alone because I don't want to hurt their feelings and can't actually tell them that I don't want to spend time with them...so I end up doing my best to avoid them....

oh God yes... I get into those situations alot and it's always like this. It's so hard to get out of those relationships once you're feeling stuck in them.

[astralsilky]

Their feelings are hurt pretty easily

Hmm.

FYI, to explore this subject further, please see the new thread: ISFps, ISFjs & hurt feelings under General Discussion.

[astralsilky]

The thing is, for a ENTp, basically everyone is replaceable.

I've heard this before, but from what I've observed, I still think this is only true to a point.

IME, an ENTp is capable of bonding with a few special people such that losing any one of them would be a bitter loss, and they would KNOW no one could replace the uniqueness of that special person and the position they had in their life in quite the same way. My guess is that it takes a special person, great rapport and many shared experiences for someone to be able to burrow so deeply into the ENTp's heart over time. But this need not typify how they feel about everyone they've had longtime relationships with, family or friends.

[JRiddy]

An ILE approach to meeting people:

The other day I walked into WalMart at 4am looking for cleaning supplies for the apartment i was moving out of. Though I had been packing and moving since 6am the previous day, and was therefore exhausted, I still managed to strike up a conversation with the greeter, 3 of the stockers (one of whom only spoke spanish; cf. ILE linguistic interest for the potential for communication and understanding others), and the checkout lady. I consider this completely normal behavior.

Many ILEs will talk with anyone, anywhere, about anything. And they can be witty and clever about it most of the time. This is what allows us to make aquaintances so fast. For me, it comes out of a deep-seeded need to "get outside myself." It also allows me to get around 20million girls' phone numbers, whom I hardly ever call, because I know I'm completely incapable of developing a meaningful relationship, due largely to my inability to maintain appropriate psychological distance.

[Creepy-bg]

is it deep-seeded or dead-seated? I always thought the latter but the former does seem to make more sense now that I think about it.

[JRiddy]

Oh, my bad. It's deep-seated. (definition here). Thanks for catching it.

Intervocalic (in-between vowels) t and d are pronounced the same (as an alveolar flap) in American and Australian English, so I got confused.

[UDP]

Socionics and MTBI are not the same thing.

http://socionics.us/intro.shtml

Socionics is more complex somewhat, and takes a longer time to understand its intricacies, so to really use it, you will need some time to absorb it.

[UDP]

You sounds more like a socionics IEI at this point - with emotional intensity. Fe.

[Elro]

You sounds more like a socionics IEI at this point - with emotional intensity. Fe.

? Why?

[UDP]

Hi, I am an INFJ female and I am married to an ESFJ "Guardian"
We have the same values and so never argue about anything,

( Fe valued ((some assumption as to the type of the other person ~ ESE)) )

...

Like I said, I am an INFJ and Intuitive Feelers are very
intense and passionate, and INtuitive Thinkers are very calm, and logical.
Well, I use to be in love with this ENTP before I got married, but even
though ENTP is my perfect match, I guess maybe my intensity was too
much for him. So that tells me that maybe he was actually an ENFP
instead of an ENTP, maybe he could not stand my intensnes, because
maybe he really was very intense himself. However, I never saw him
like that, he always seemed very calm and logical to me. I know that ENTP's
want things to be their idea. I know he loved me, but I think his priorities
were first in his life, and I think he pushed me away because
he did not want to be rude and put me on the back burner while
he earned his degree, so he thought it was more logical to just
push me away and thought that would hurt me less. I am not sure,
I am still so confused about that to this day. There are a lot more
questions I want to ask about an ENTP, and not about that guy,
just an ENTP in general. I have read the profile and the books about it,
but I need examples from someone who truly is an ENTP and though my
own mother is an ENTP, and i have a couple of more friends who are,
I have not spoken with any of them in a few months. I guess ENTP's
even my own mother really dislike the phone, and emails are answered
sometimes. Can someone help me out? Thanks

INFjs do not use "intense emotion" so much. Yet, when we look at our beta NFs...............

[Elro]

It depends, I think (although I could be wrong). Specifically on what she means by "intense." Didn't seem overly gushy at all. I could see INFj potentially. So, silk, what do you mean by intense?

And (my favorite question to ask people typing themselves: ) what qualities appeal to you in other people?

EDIT: socionics.us is good, yes, and so is http://wikisocion.org. Also, just poking your head around the archives here might be good, or the articles page. Hopefully some more experienced folks will notice this thread and chip in, though.

[Ms. Kensington]

In a partners Socionics ENTp need someone who is able to comfort and calm us in diffucult times. This is very important.. emotional intensity tend to scare us. A ENTp in a fight will simply slam the door, phone and walk away. The ENTp's dual ISFp will accept this and welcome them back without fuss.

yeah. I think more than one type can do this, but they would need something more from the entp, so it ends up not working. Sometimes i think about ENTps the way that americancer was describing things, but then hkkmr is describing more of the inner workings of dealing with close relationships, which we don't hear enough of here

stuff about friends

I agreed with what she said.

[Elro]

Hi,

Yes, by intense I mean do not mean, gushy or overly gushy.
Also, to answer hkkmr's comment, I agree that Artisons and Rationals
SP's and NT's are similar as far as tool usage, so they do projects
and work well along side each other, however, SJ's and Sp's are concrete
thinkers and so therefore do not communicate as effectively with NT's and NF's
Intuitive Feelers and Intuitive Thinkers are both abstract thinkers and so
communicate together better. Also, INFJ's like myself, are very, very
good about welcoming someone back after they hung up the phone,
and we THRIVE on comforting others. That's why the ENTP guy
I use to know loved me because I was one of the only ones that
went out of my way to try to understand how he was feeling and
yes, he did hang up on me a few times, but I welcomed him back
and he always re-engaged with me. He told me that he had kicked
everyone out of his life and did not know why he let me stay in his life,
but then he told me that because I moved away and it was a long
distance relationship and because he did not want to control me
that he was not going to ask me to wait for him, so he pushed me away,
but we are back in contact now, and I can not believe he comes and visits
my web site to check for updates and stuff like that. According the David
Keirsey and Meirs Briggs test, it says that an ENTP or an ENFP are the perfect
match for INFJ.

Let me tell you that after living with a SJ, being married to an SJ,
it is very hard to communicate, although, he and I work great alongside
each other, it isn't enough to just work well together, if you are not best
friends, mind mates, soul mates, you get bored with the relationship fast.
It's like going to work every day and working well as a team, but then
there is no mind connection so you get bored with that person.

To answer Elro's question, I did not type myself, someone else gave
me the test and I came out an INFJ and every year I take that test
and every year, I come out the same thing. INFJ

About the intenseness what I mean is,
intuitive feelers also known as idealists
are always day dreaming, always hopeless
romantics, always wanting to save everyone
and stick up for the underdog, always feeling
sorry for everyone, always wanting to help everyone,
understanding their own feelings very well and understanding
others feelings very well, and able to help people on an emotional
level--they make great councilors or therapists for example,
they are always looking for a cause, and always searching
for their perfect self, always thinking of tomorrow and the future,
and that is why they need a rational thinker to come along and help
them get their feet back on the ground and be a little more logical
with their decisions. Rationals (NT's) are closet dreamers,
but they rarely ever follow those dreams because they
base their final decision on logic and Idealists (NF's)
chase their dreams because they base their final decisions
on their heart.

Just to warn you, Socionics is a slightly different ball game (so to speak). You might want to look into the sites that have been mentioned, as they offer valuable information that may differ from what you said (as it's a slightly different theory, despite the similar terminology). For instance, regardless of your type, you're in a quadra (quadrum? ), and each quadra has an Sj. You get along particularly well with people of your quadra, so there is indeed at least one type of Sj that you will usually get along with (if Socionics works).

And if you're INFx, your dual will in fact be ESTx (ESTp if you're INFp, ESTj if you're INFj). So you'll get along BEST with a sensory type.

But don't take my word for it, check out the sites! It should help a little.

[Creepy-silkrose01]

Very, Very Interesting. I am trying to catch up now, by reading the web sites
you gave me more thoroughly.

Well, I will say this, in real life, ENTP's tend to be more authoritative,
not by raising their voice, because they are very calm and logical when
discussing things, but rather, by constantly correcting me if they see a flaw
in something I have said or done. So, they are much like a supervisor to me.
I guess the THINKERS study way more and so are much more book learned
and because ENTP's are also Extroverts, they like to voice what they know,
what they have read and studied. INFJ's study too, but they do not study
as much as ENTP's, so therefore, ENTP's usually know more and so therefore,
can be at times, very informative much like a parent teaching their child.

Also, I can see how an INFJ would be a care giver to the ENTP at the same
time, because INFJ's like myself are always trying to solve complex problems
with the relationship and always trying to make their partner feel better,
and always trying to cheer them up, or help them by any means necessary.

Often times, my ENTP friends will be just what I need to get
my mind stimulated, and then that motivates me to seek more,
to read more, to study more, and in turn I give back them
a great wealth of discussions and insight that I come up with
which helps them to see the subject in a different light,
something they have never thought of before.

My ENTP friends provoke me to want to search,
read, and study more, not by their words, not by
telling me to go and do it, but just by bringing up
an interesting subject and when I see that I do not
know that subject very well, then I secretly go and start
researching so that next time, I can have a great discussion
with my ENTP friends.

[Creepy-silkrose01]

It's so easy to get annoyed with people
that are unwilling to think and to think
outside the box. I know what you mean,
when you just want to let them know
how stupid they are. ha ha! I usually try
to educate them anyway, because I idealistically
think they will listen. I give them the benefit of the
doubt, but then always find out that I waisted my time.
When will I ever learn! :wink: