My ENFp brother and INTj-ENFp family interaction

[ataronchronon]

I've finally typed him. A lot of things threw me off about him because, as much as I would hate to admit, I think he's smarter than me. He's better at math and physics than me, but he has no real interest in pursuing them. I think he's going to be a physics teacher, but he's floundering a bit in college because he can't seem to stick to anything. His is a little out of control; he keeps bouncing all over the place. Since I'm an INTj, my dad is an ISTj and my mom is a Ij I think we've all driven him a little mad. My dad and I have always been trying to "straighten him out" and socionics tells me we're doing it the wrong way. It seems like he's developed some kind of "shield" against logic and nothing I say seems to reach him anymore. How can I get him to focus on what's important? I might try showing socionics to him, but I'm not sure if he'll be interested. Any advice?

[Elro]

How can I get him to focus on what's important?

Make it look really shiny.

EDIT: That sounds like I'm just spewing garbage, and I partially am, but on the other hand if you squint your eyes and look at it hard it's not entirely bad advice. From what I understand of the ENFps here, they really don't like to be told what to do in any way. They want to do what they want to do and don't appreciate pressures otherwise. Soo... if you could find some aspect of "what's important" that would attract him, and alert him to it, he might think about it and decide he wants to do it for his own reasons, and then might do it. (Or he might not. But you can try.) Use your understanding of what he likes. That probably would work for most people actually. Just don't be too pushy about it, probably. Let him make his own decisions. It is his life, after all. What's important to you might not be what's important to him (and apparently isn't).

[ataronchronon]

I dont doubt that what's important to me is not to him, but I think these are really basic things. I moved away from home when I graduated high school, but he's 24 now and still living at home. He's been going to college for 7 years now and he told me that he's trying to stay in as long as he can so he can have a free ride at home. These are really the only things that bother me and I don't think my parents are going to do anything about it. Should I even be worried about it?

[Elro]

I dont doubt that what's important to me is not to him, but I think these are really basic things. I moved away from home when I graduated high school, but he's 24 now and still living at home. He's been going to college for 7 years now and he told me that he's trying to stay in as long as he can so he can have a free ride at home. These are really the only things that bother me and I don't think my parents are going to do anything about it. Should I even be worried about it?

Do your parents know he's saying that?

[ataronchronon]

no, but I would prefer not to get them into it. I don't think that would change anyone's mind very much because they've had 7 years to think about it.

I'll bring it up when I get a chance though.

[mikemex]

OK.

[cracka]

lol, you're so full of yourself I sometimes want to hit you.
but it's funny to read.

The more posts I read like this one the more I'm sure that Socionics is off, because of the supposed ENFp I know, I'm not like any of them.

I found this sentence rather amusing. So, instead of you not being enfp... Socionics as a whole is off?
*drunken post disclaimer* Please don't commit suicide or some other ignorant act if I've offended you in any way, I just think at this point, you're retarded, no matter how smart/brilliant you think you are.

[olduser]

I have a similar friend. It's best to ignore them.

[Mea]

lol, you're so full of yourself I sometimes want to hit you.
but it's funny to read.

The more posts I read like this one the more I'm sure that Socionics is off, because of the supposed ENFp I know, I'm not like any of them.

I found this sentence rather amusing. So, instead of you not being enfp... Socionics as a whole is off?
*drunken post disclaimer* Please don't commit suicide or some other ignorant act if I've offended you in any way, I just think at this point, you're retarded, no matter how smart/brilliant you think you are.

Socionics is off?
I found ataron's description... Err. Let's just say when I read the part about "how to get him to focus on what's important"... First thought was, what makes you think you know what's important and he doesn't. Something may seem important to you, but not to him?
Why do you think he needs "straightening out"? It could be you guys are just looking at things differently.
Urgh. My dad is INTj.
Free ride at home... Seriously, if I were him and I said that, I don't think I meant it one bit. Living under the same room with 2 Ti dominants? I'd be dying to get out. I'm already dying to leave with just one. Lol. Then again, I'm not him.

Ok. Don't take my post too seriously.

[Topaz]

I was wondering if that statement about hanging out at home was kind of a sarcastic joke. Then again he may be so unsure of his ability to make it on his own he feels like he needs to stay where he is until he can "get himself together". ENFPs have weak / . Even when an ENFP is quite capable they may not feel secure in those areas. So imagine what would happen if people close to you constantly reminded you of you incompitence and inability in these areas. What would happen? Imagine growing up and never getting possitive feedback about your strengths. It could make for a very dependent, unsure person couldnt it?
Ataronchronon, Im not saying that you or his father diliberately set out to cripple the guy but you are coming from a very different place. I can imagine he might block out all your advice to protect himself. I agree he would be better off finishing school and getting out there and challenging himself on his own. He is probably far more capable than he believes himself to be. He also needs to find some supportive environments and friends.
Disclaimer: I dont know this guy at all or his family so my advice is superficial at best. There could be a million extenuating circumstances I know nothing about. That said I am posting this anyway.

[meatburger]

I was wondering if that statement about hanging out at home was kind of a sarcastic joke. Then again he may be so unsure of his ability to make it on his own he feels like he needs to stay where he is until he can "get himself together". ENFPs have weak / . Even when an ENFP is quite capable they may not feel secure in those areas.

Interesting im in this boat. Im 24 still living with parents. In a way i dont have the Se / feeling of capability to live by myself, yet in the back of my head i know i could live outside of home with no problems at all. My parents leave me to my own things and they are happy to have me there so i see no need to move out yet. I would like to one day tho

[Topaz]

I was wondering if that statement about hanging out at home was kind of a sarcastic joke. Then again he may be so unsure of his ability to make it on his own he feels like he needs to stay where he is until he can "get himself together". ENFPs have weak / . Even when an ENFP is quite capable they may not feel secure in those areas.

Interesting im in this boat. Im 24 still living with parents. In a way i dont have the Se / feeling of capability to live by myself, yet in the back of my head i know i could live outside of home with no problems at all. My parents leave me to my own things and they are happy to have me there so i see no need to move out yet. I would like to one day tho

LOL I was one of the last to leave my parents house at 23. Even so I returned for a few short stints while I was in between apartments/jobs/adventures abroad. My parents were actually upset when I moved out because I had been paying them rent and they wanted to keep the extra income :wink: Like your parents, Meaty, my folks were not the leat bit controlling. I took care of all my neccessities like I would if I lived on my own, cooking, laundry, bills etc. Infact Ive been doing most of that since I was about 14. This was neccessary because I have a lot of brothers and sisters so we had to learn to be self sufficent.

[NeonMonk]

I moved out as soon as I could. (17)

I couldn't stand to live at home (really just with my dad but still the point remains) for that long or at all! Don't get me wrong, my dad is an awesome guy and very easy to live with, but I would've thought one of the basic tenents of being an ENFP was the love of freedom!

I love freedom!

[meatburger]

I moved out as soon as I could. (17)

I couldn't stand to live at home (really just with my dad but still the point remains) for that long or at all! Don't get me wrong, my dad is an awesome guy and very easy to live with, but I would've thought one of the basic tenents of being an ENFP was the love of freedom!

I love freedom!

Neon Monk. Long time no see!

Yeah i probablly would love living out of my home but it seems i dont have the Se to do it lol. Im now at university so my income will be shitty and my parents are moving to the beach really soon so im still not ready to leave yet

[Mea]

I moved out as soon as I could. (17)

I couldn't stand to live at home (really just with my dad but still the point remains) for that long or at all! Don't get me wrong, my dad is an awesome guy and very easy to live with, but I would've thought one of the basic tenents of being an ENFP was the love of freedom!

I love freedom!

Yea. Freedom is the word. lol.

[FDG]

How can I get him to focus on what's important?

How can you decide what is "important"? Let him to what he wants...

[Exodus]

lol, you're so full of yourself I sometimes want to hit you.
but it's funny to read.

The more posts I read like this one the more I'm sure that Socionics is off, because of the supposed ENFp I know, I'm not like any of them.

I found this sentence rather amusing. So, instead of you not being enfp... Socionics as a whole is off?
*drunken post disclaimer* Please don't commit suicide or some other ignorant act if I've offended you in any way, I just think at this point, you're retarded, no matter how smart/brilliant you think you are.

Socionics is off?
I found ataron's description... Err. Let's just say when I read the part about "how to get him to focus on what's important"... First thought was, what makes you think you know what's important and he doesn't. Something may seem important to you, but not to him?
Why do you think he needs "straightening out"? It could be you guys are just looking at things differently.
Urgh. My dad is INTj.
Free ride at home... Seriously, if I were him and I said that, I don't think I meant it one bit. Living under the same room with 2 Ti dominants? I'd be dying to get out. I'm already dying to leave with just one. Lol. Then again, I'm not him.

Ok. Don't take my post too seriously.

ftr (and while we're voicing complaints ), this is something that annoys me about ENFps - including a disclaimer doesn't make you immune to Ti criticism.

[meatburger]

ftr (and while we're voicing complaints ), this is something that annoys me about ENFps - including a disclaimer doesn't make you immune to Ti criticism.

This is what annoys me about INTj's. The fact that they are so nit-picky is the reason we need to put a disclaimer

[mikemex]

While the inter-type relationships work pretty well, I'm starting to realize that nobody fits a type completely. The mind changes constantly. That's why socionics is off: assuming a teoretical model can be applied to real people.

[Elro]

While the inter-type relationships work pretty well, I'm starting to realize that nobody fits a type completely. The mind changes constantly. That's why socionics is off: assuming a teoretical model can be applied to real people.

So you are saying that Socionics is wrong because it is a generalization? If it weren't a generalization, it wouldn't be useful (it wouldn't apply to many people). So it's a tradeoff: usefulness vs. accuracy. The point is that, if Socionics "works," the theory is close enough to reality for your purposes. It's always a simplification, though - even physics is a simplification. Models ARE simplifications - they're "models," mental imitations of the real thing so we can predict what the next real things will be. Sort of like an analogy, if that's not too self-referential for you.