Any meaningful articles or blogs by ESTjs to recommend? All the ones I have came across (and liked) are usually by INFps, INFjs and ENFjs. Thought I could probably read some ESTjs' writings to understand them better. :wink:
Delta recommended reading books/authors
Any meaningful articles or blogs by ESTjs to recommend? All the ones I have came across (and liked) are usually by INFps, INFjs and ENFjs. Thought I could probably read some ESTjs' writings to understand them better. :wink:
Have you ever seen the show, "King of the Hill" ?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
It isn't shown here, but I have seen an episode on the plane once. I thought it was boring, probably because I couldn't relate to the lifestyle of the family.Originally Posted by UDP III
I guess ESTjs don't write alot? :wink:
Huh? I remember seeing it on arts central once. Didn't watch you though.It isn't shown here, but I have seen an episode on the plane once. I thought it was boring, probably because I couldn't relate to the lifestyle of the family.
INTp
sx/sp
Really? I didn't notice it. Anyway, The Office was shown on Arts Central too, together with a lot of Alpha/Delta shows. It has never occur to me that Alphas and Deltas are considered "artsy".Huh? I remember seeing it on arts central once. Didn't watch you though.It isn't shown here, but I have seen an episode on the plane once. I thought it was boring, probably because I couldn't relate to the lifestyle of the family.
I've looked for articles by Dave Gorman, a comedian who I think is ESTj - he use ofis apparent in his articles as well. (His books are good, too but you have to pay for those
).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/200...ytravelsection
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/200...ytravelsection
(You can find quite a lot on the guardian site - click here for a search result).
Those are good. I like this guy and his sense of humour.
For those of you who like to gain a better understanding of ESTjs, here's an example of one of the blog entries of an ESTj-Si which I had recently come across. I thought this short article has perfectly conveyed leading,
PoLR in a nutshell:
The Past and Future of My Education and Yours
Harvard President Larry Summers announced that he will step down as Harvard President from July 1, 2006.
Official announcement in the Gazette
Letter from Larry Summers
Letter from the Corporation (pdf)
Harvard Crimson editorial
The Times editorial
The Economist article (Subscription required)
I'm really, really disappointed. Incredibly disappointed. Larry Summers was hired by the Corporation specifically to do a job, and he was doing it well. That job was to modernize Harvard and bring its system of education into the 21st century, and to ensure it remains the gold standard of higher education around the world. By the very definition of his job, Summers was going to challenge the faculty and make them face very uncomfortable truths- that the general education of America's undergraduates was not adequate to prepare them for the challenges of the modern world; that Harvard, and the other elite universities on the coasts of America, did not have enough intellectual diversity and freedom; that Harvard was out of touch with much of the modern social and political climate in which it finds itself. The sad fact is, Harvard, like all the other major universities of North America, is guilty of all these things. The Corporation was enlightened enough to see this, and to face up to the challenge, and the faculty have shied away from the challenge and battled ferociously to preserve their own self-interest and the status quo.
If you read most accounts, it will explain his departure as due to his infamous remarks about women and possible genetic differences with men, and also to his style of governance. It's hypocrisy that the faculty of an academic institution that is supposed to support intellectual freedom were willing to castigate him for his remarks. The fact is, many other professors say things which are routinely accepted because of that same intellectual freedom to experiment and hypothesise. What they were looking for is an excuse to take down a man who was threatening their own personal agendas.
Take two specific examples. When I was an undergraduate, it was quite clear to me, even as an ignorant teenager on campus, that Prof. Cornel West was more interested in being famous than in teaching his students. He was off posing with black stars and cutting rap albums. When Summers told him to shape up and concentrate on what he was being paid to do- teach students- West huffily decamped to Princeton. Of course, they were willing to take him in.
Secondly, Prof Kirby, who resigned a short while ago, led the much hyped undergraduate core curriculum review. His committee sat around for ages and produced nothing. Absolutely nothing. Their plan looks more like some utopian ideal than a concrete plan for tackling the needs of students to come.
As an alumni, I was highly supportive of Larry Summers, and I believe most alumni are too. A survey found that most students (3 out of 4, according to a Crimson survey) supported him as well. At the end of the day, the university is supposed to educate students, and relies very much on us alumni for donations. We expect Harvard to maintain its excellence because a fall in standards lowers the perceived values of our education as well. I think the alumni will see this and there will be repurcussions. I know I am deeply disappointed and ashamed of the Harvard faculty for putting their own narrow interests ahead of a desire to improve Harvard.
Two final thoughts-
1. It's very instructive of the nature of leadership that Summers, despite his intellect, credentials, and achievements, could still trip up. His failure has been primarily his deficiency in recognising the opposition to him that would develop. Perhaps it was due to over-optimism, over-confidence or idealism; but it's a reminder that leadership is not just about producing the right ideas, but also about inspiring people to believe in them.
2. What does this mean for Oxford's reforms? Again, I'm very supportive of Vice-Chancellor Hood and I think he's on the right track. I think Oxford should be on the path toward eventual independence, and I think we need to streamline our system of governance, especially in non-academic affairs. We need to be willing to challenge ourselves. Harvard's case is going to scare every university in America and make them shy away from confronting the problems which infect them all. This offers an opportunity for Oxford to learn from Harvard's mistakes and think deeply about where the university has to go in the future.
Posted by pj at 10:54 PM
Delta books
Any recommendation?
The Dice Man by Luke Rhinehart
Survivor - Chuck Palahniuk
Invisible Monsters - Chuck Palahniuk
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
sorry, i read a bunch of howto books, but lately The Dark Tower series by stephen king has been awesome.
haha. howto books strike me as delta somehow. i have/read quite a lot of them, too.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Not saying "Invisible Monsters" isn't Delta, but why do you consider it Delta?
-The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey
-The 8th Habit by Stephen Covey
-The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren
-How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
-How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie
-Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom
-Seven People You Meet In Heaven by Mitch Albom
(Disclaimer: I haven't read any of these books yet (except 7 Habits, which I'm only halfway through), but I presume that they are Delta books based on what people have shared to me about them.
Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I agree with that one. Even though I didn't manage to read the book, I liked the movie a lot.
...and yeah, "How To" books are definitely related to Delta in some way.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
It's that cross-country-adventure-to-abandon-modern-shallowness-to-find-yourself kind of story that pulls no punches. It's the kind of thing I can identify with...Not saying "Invisible Monsters" isn't Delta, but why do you consider it Delta?
I can't with any authority claim it's 'Delta' per se. But it's definitely a book I would recommend to [like-minded?] people.
ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
In touch with semireality.
I'm currently reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I felt as if he had written it specially for me.
It's too bad that in some bookstores, some "How-To" books are filed under self-help. <shudder>
I'm always reading some sort of real-life crime thriller type book or something about serial killers, etc. I just find it interesting for some reason. I'm sure i'd scare many people had they seen my collection...fiction doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
Roberston Davies, Fifth Business... any of his, actually. The Manticore works a lot of Jung into the plot.
SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype
Verrall from Burmese Days IMO is good example of a SLI.
Aside from Meditations, I might suggest Notes From the Underground by Dostoevsky. The Underground Man (the narrator of the story) reminds me of myself when I let my worst instincts run amok. That said, it's quite funny (and thought provoking)!
Also, I liked W.E.B. DuBois's The Souls of Black Folk. He was a brilliant and kind man who lived his ideals in a world that rejected them. He finally broke down into despair towards the end and passed away the night before MLK Jr. gave his 'I Have a Dream' speech. So sad...
There are more, but for the life of me I can't think of any right now!
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
That intro of him makes him sound too 'good'. This bit doesn't.
Half way down this page.Verrall was the youngest son of a peer, and not at all rich, but by
the method of seldom paying a bill until a writ was issued against
him, he managed to keep himself in the only things he seriously
cared about: clothes and horses. He had come out to India in a
British cavalry regiment, and exchanged into the Indian Army
because it was cheaper and left him greater freedom for polo.
After two years his debts were so enormous that he entered the
Burma Military Police, in which it was notoriously possible to save
money; however, he detested Burma--it is no country for a horseman--
and he had already applied to go back to his regiment. He was the
kind of soldier who can get exchanges when he wants them. Meanwhile,
he was only to be in Kyauktada for a month, and he had no intention
of mixing himself up with all the petty sahiblog of the district.
He knew the society of those small Burma stations--a nasty,
poodle-faking, horseless riffraff. He despised them.
They were not the only people whom Verrall despised, however. His
various contempts would take a long time to catalogue in detail.
He despised the entire non-military population of India, a few
famous polo players excepted. He despised the entire Army as well,
except the cavalry. He despised all Indian regiments, infantry and
cavalry alike. It was true that he himself belonged to a native
regiment, but that was only for his own convenience. He took no
interest in Indians, and his Urdu consisted mainly of swear-words,
with all the verbs in the third person singular. His Military
Policemen he looked on as no better than coolies. 'Christ, what
God-forsaken swine!' he was often heard to mutter as he moved down
the ranks inspecting, with the old subahdar carrying his sword
behind him. Verrall had even been in trouble once for his
outspoken opinions on native troops. It was at a review, and
Verrall was among the group of officers standing behind the
general. An Indian infantry regiment approached for the march-
past.
'The ---- Rifles,' somebody said.
'AND look at it,' said Verrall in his surly boy's voice.
The white-haired colonel of the ---- Rifles was standing near. He
flushed to the neck, and reported Verrall to the general. Verrall
was reprimanded, but the general, a British Army officer himself,
did not rub it in very hard. Somehow, nothing very serious ever
did happen to Verrall, however offensive he made himself. Up and
down India, wherever he was stationed, he left behind him a trail
of insulted people, neglected duties and unpaid bills. Yet the
disgraces that ought to have fallen on him never did. He bore a
charmed life, and it was not only the handle to his name that saved
him. There was something in his eye before which duns, burra
memsahibs and even colonels quailed.
It was a disconcerting eye, pale blue and a little protuberant, but
exceedingly clear. It looked you over, weighed you in the balance
and found you wanting, in a single cold scrutiny of perhaps five
seconds. If you were the right kind of man--that is, if you were a
cavalry officer and a polo player--Verrall took you for granted and
even treated you with a surly respect; if you were any other type
of man whatever, he despised you so utterly that he could not have
hidden it even if he would. It did not even make any difference
whether you were rich or poor, for in the social sense he was not
more than normally a snob. Of course, like all sons of rich
families, he thought poverty disgusting and that poor people are
poor because they prefer disgusting habits. But he despised soft
living. Spending, or rather owing, fabulous sums on clothes, he
yet lived almost as ascetically as a monk. He exercised himself
ceaselessly and brutally, rationed his drink and his cigarettes,
slept on a camp bed (in silk pyjamas) and bathed in cold water in
the bitterest winter. Horsemanship and physical fitness were the
only gods he knew. The stamp of hoofs on the maidan, the strong,
poised feeling of his body, wedded centaurlike to the saddle, the
polo-stick springy in his hand--these were his religion, the breath
of his life. The Europeans in Burma--boozing, womanizing, yellow-
faced loafers--made him physically sick when he thought of their
habits. As for social duties of all descriptions, he called them
poodle-faking and ignored them. Women he abhorred. In his view
they were a kind of siren whose one aim was to lure men away from
polo and enmesh them in tea-fights and tennis-parties. He was not,
however, quite proof against women. He was young, and women of
nearly all kinds threw themselves at his head; now and again he
succumbed. But his lapses soon disgusted him, and he was too
callous when the pinch came to have any difficulty about escaping.
He had had perhaps a dozen such escapes during his two years in
India.
Deltas recommend me some good books to read!
I'm about to do some traveling, and need to take along some books for the ride lest I die of boredom!
Need some recs!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
You want heavy reading or light?
heavy: The Count of Monte Cristo
light: A Series of Unfortunate Events
(very) light: Catherine, Called Birdy
My life's work (haha):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
Input, PLEASEAnd thank you
Heavy: The Lord of the Rings trilogy
Medium: Ivanhoe
Light: The Winds of Light series
Very Light: The Littles books
Philistines! Allow my Beta-y magnificence to assign you true works of art!
Heavy: The Brothers Karamazov
Moderate: Candide, ou l'Optimisme
Light: Nostromo
Very light: Everybody Poops
(though The Count of Monte Cristo is a very good pick - I'd classify it as "light" rather than "heavy," however)
2-subtype system: IEI-Fe
8-subtype system: D-IEI-Fe
16-subtype system: IEI-ESE
IEI-Fe 2w3 > p6w5 > 8w7 sx/so
"He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of living." - Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas père)
It is. It is also Gamma.
Thanks everyone!
I have already read the Count of Monte Cristo and Candide. But I will consider the others!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Sure. I guess what I meant was, it's quite long. Though, when I read it back in HS I think it only took me a couple weeks to get through...I think I would probably only call it "medium" though, rather than "light," in comparison to the books I listed before as "light."
It might be Gamma, I wasn't really trying to recommend "Delta" books, just books that I (a Delta) have enjoyed reading.
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Input, PLEASE
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
johari nohari
http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/
The Dark Tower? I finished the first three books off over about a month-long trip I think.
They're pretty easy-going action, but it's pretty enjoyable to read.
16 TYPES ADVENTURES!!!
(lol god I'm such a famewhore for my only novel)
Ahaha, sorry Sam, we've seen that that's not exactly a Delta-friendly piece of fiction
How wonderful that you gave me links to the plot summaries Ssmall!!!
I am so picky about what i feel like reading!
I think i may start with "The Alchemist"!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yes, The Alchemist is a good one...I've been meaning to read it again at some point since it's been a while...
My life's work (haha):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
Input, PLEASE
Neither is Nostromo. It's a Beta's (IEI's) view of Delta NFs. Basically, a captain is tired of corruption and decides to bring peace and stability to his colony. In his crusade for justice, he ends up putting his colony's economic security and future in the hands of a violent Gamma SF revolutionary who becomes lost in his own self-righteous drive for fame and power (all in the name of fairness and equality, of course). In short, the Delta NF's naivete leads to society's downfall.Ahaha, sorry Sam, we've seen that that's not exactly a Delta-friendly piece of fiction
Likewise, The Count of Monte Cristo is an Alpha's (SEI's, Dumas being the SEI exemplar) view of Gammas, the Count being a somewhat mixed (sympathetic, but negative) portrayal of a Gamma rational.
2-subtype system: IEI-Fe
8-subtype system: D-IEI-Fe
16-subtype system: IEI-ESE
IEI-Fe 2w3 > p6w5 > 8w7 sx/so
"He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of living." - Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas père)
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