Quasi-identical differences: IEI-INFp and EII-INFj

[Beautiful sky]

A good thing to remember is what do you want when your emotions are sparked?

A. To be comforted-do you display it, do you find that it attracts people's attention to you, when you have people's attention to your emotions do you calm down after the comfort?
B. To be left alone-do you hide it, do you find that calling attention to it only aggrivates you more.


if you choose A then that's Fe, which is calling people to attention of your emotions hence SEI or IEI

if you choose B then EII or ESI

The problem is that we all either want to call attention to our emotions and choose sometimes not to, but EII and ESI are exceptional about not calling or wearing their emotions on their sleeve.

Also, not being EII doesn't mean that you don't live your life by certain principles, but the principles that EII holds is universal, much more so then other's emphasis of personal perinciples.

[tereg]

I hate calling attention to myself.

For instance, I'm not in a very good mood today, and I'm finding it difficult to smile or be upbeat at all. People are telling me "Hey, you should smile more", which just makes me feel awkward.

If I attract more attention from feeling down, I feel even worse. I don't like dragging people along with me when I'm not feeling positive. Especially if they are in a positive mood and then they have to stop being in a positive mood because I'm not. Getting their attention does not calm me. So, when I'm in a bad mood, I try to distance myself from people and avoid social contact. Attracting attention in those circumstances only aggravates myself even more.

[Beautiful sky]

I hate calling attention to myself.

For instance, I'm not in a very good mood today, and I'm finding it difficult to smile or be upbeat at all. People are telling me "Hey, you should smile more", which just makes me feel awkward.

If I attract more attention from feeling down, I feel even worse. I don't like dragging people along with me when I'm not feeling positive. Especially if they are in a positive mood and then they have to stop being in a positive mood because I'm not. Getting their attention does not calm me. So, when I'm in a bad mood, I try to distance myself from people and avoid social contact. Attracting attention in those circumstances only aggravates myself even more.

Why do you feel reluctant to VI?
Do you hold global priciples, ideals of human relations, and what are they?

But you said you wear your heart on your sleeve. Calling attention is not to yourself, but to your feelings. Do you hate to call attention to your feelings?

[UDP]

I humbly submit to Tereg and Minde that trying to 'reason' with Maritsa is appearing to be relatively ineffectual. Please be careful about the amount of energy you expend in dealing with her.

I feel like 'taking her seriously' is only encouraging her to believe her methods of going about things deserved to be taken seriously.

[Beautiful sky]

This kind of stuff is display of emotion (Fe) and calling attention to your feelings by other:

:-/ , ,

Just look back at Minde's posts and yours and start lining the Fe up and you can see what I mean by calling attention to Fe.

Here is one of your posts, please read it:

"I don't naturally take criticism well. My natural and initial reaction is to interpret criticism as a statement about my character. That I have failed somehow. It hurts in a way that is hard to explain, like almost something irrecoverable or irreconcilable. I'm not angry at the person issuing it, I'm more angry at myself for allowing something like that to happen."

Anger pain feeling, marid of colors embarrassment of blushing tones.

If you want, I will find your posts for you and put them all here and hilight these things.


This function reflects person's own emotions, his/her emotional, highly personal and passionate reaction to what is going on around. Types with this dominant functions are eloquent, often smiling, artistic, charming (but somewhat “fussy” and “too artistic”), can speak and persuade others, but they perceive situations too emotionally, too personally, and sometimes they “sink” in their own emotions, cannot calm down for long time.

[Beautiful sky]

I humbly submit to Tereg and Minde that trying to 'reason' with Maritsa is appearing to be relatively ineffectual. Please be careful about the amount of energy you expend in dealing with her.

I feel like 'taking her seriously' is only encouraging her to believe her methods of going about things deserved to be taken seriously.

You are too much, and you can't even remain objective. Please stop challenging me, if you have something to add to the effect of the information that I am trying to produce, either do so or don't.

I feel everything that any other person feels and probably much more deeply, but I don't say it. Like, I feel angry, upset, embarrased, I feel, I feel I feel. NO
I say things like please stop because you will upset me, which is trying to prompt individuals to refrain from certain actions that will produce emotion to come out. Which is, what Ryu is doing at me now.

If you dualized you will begin to see me but you're just so much in fantasy about these two individuals here being EII. He and minde are the same, identicals, both at 9w1 both are unwilling or concerned to VI; There is nothing about Socioniko description of EII that does not match me to the T. and nothing about our role as duals that does not either, yet when you read Minde's comments on the personality types, you begin to wonder.

[Beautiful sky]

Tereg, here's in your post:

"A new version was recently released. I will add it this weekend.

It was removed because I was noticing some unpleasant aesthetic effects."

This kind of sensing is rather passive, it focuses on getting as more pleasant feelings as possible, on reduction of quantity of unnecessary motions, on the quality and functionality of work. People with this function as dominant do not like to argue (if they began – it means that something VERY serious happened). They are often efficient at work that requires attention to small details, etc. They like intellectuals, like new ideas, because these ideas make their life more diverse, but also ridicule intellectuals for their “impractical approach”.

[Beautiful sky]

SEI

1. He is amicable, always appears optimistic and in a good spirits. He does not impose his will on others, hiding his real feelings. He is always equally warm, caring, smiling. He does not like to ask and moreover to demand favors, and strives to satisfy his needs through his own efforts.

2. He appreciates all the facets of life, finely experiences nature and the arts. He is capable of remembering and reproducing emotions once experienced. Ayvazovsky painted his seascapes in a room with dark red walls and windows looking out in the opposite direction of the sea. He loves pleasures and knows how to bestow them —an artist in loving.

3. Attentive and considerate. Tries not to infringe on others' comfort. His very quick and consciously controlled emotional reactions aim to test or alter the emotions of the others. This results in many jokes—if they are out of turn he immediately takes them back. He is permanently in the process of emotional creativity, searching for the most effective ways to activate his partner. With exceptional ardor he manipulates the moods of his friends and relatives.

4. Peacemaker. He dislikes to quarrel, say "no", break undesired acquaintances—this is why he avoids sticky people. He needs a partner, who under certain circumstances will also not quarrel, but just slam the door and leave. This is just how his dual, Don Quixote, will act. It's noteworthy that Alexander Dumas (the great French novelist) picked Ida Ferrier out of the many of his mistresses, because she kept him at a longer leash than the others.

5. Who needs what? He remarks people's needs, what motivates them, enjoys persuading everyone and winning them over to his side. But he needs his dual in order to know, whom he must convince and of what, because his dual possesses insights into potential capabilities of people, ideas, and undertakings.

6. He does not like to make people aware of his existence while there is no need of him. He strives neither to stand out as an advanced man nor to lag too far behind. He does not like to compete, shows initiative only on his own "territory". He prefers that in his family initiative and responsibility belong to his partner, even if he is the one to carry everything out. An interesting fact: before Alexander Dumas The Father began writing "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte-Cristo" and many other books, his secret co-author Max wrote their drafts.

7. "A tender calf is nursed by two cows." When he feels lousy, he is compelled to hide somewhere and recuperate. His mood is spoiled making him incapable of manipulating [changing or influencing people's feelings] people, without this communication seems meaningless to him.

[Beautiful sky]

I am don't with this Tereg, I have typed both you and Minde as SEI and so far, like I have said, there are non other EII on this site except for myself. You, Minde and one other individual on this site, are all three 9w1 in enneagram, PEACEMAKER, both in Socionics, MBTI, Enneagram and real life.

I am sorry that when you read your own description of your type that you can't see it, but being objective and taking a look at yourself, to realize the ego, will help you in that process.

[Cyrano]

Tereg, here's in your post:

"A new version was recently released. I will add it this weekend.

It was removed because I was noticing some unpleasant aesthetic effects."

This kind of sensing is rather passive, it focuses on getting as more pleasant feelings as possible, on reduction of quantity of unnecessary motions, on the quality and functionality of work. People with this function as dominant do not like to argue (if they began – it means that something VERY serious happened). They are often efficient at work that requires attention to small details, monotonous chores etc. They like intellectuals, like new ideas, because these ideas make their life more diverse, but also ridicule intellectuals for their “impractical approach”.

True. As an I do focus on efficiency, avoid conflict, and enjoy out-of-the-box thinkers. I'm not too wrapped around the "small details," since they tend to take care of themselves, but otherwise, Maritsa is right.

"Monotonous chores" are deadly for the SLI Maritsa. Better rethink that concept. Worst job I've ever seen... the workers at the Campbell's Soup factory standing before a converyor belt of vegetable chuncks rolling by. She has a vacumn hose and sucks ups the bad chunks. I could last for maybe an hour at that job before I would suck my eyeballs out.

[Beautiful sky]

True. As an I do focus on efficiency, avoid conflict, and enjoy out-of-the-box thinkers. I'm not too wrapped around the "small details," since they tend to take care of themselves, but otherwise, Maritsa is right.

"Monotonous chores" are deadly for the SLI Maritsa. Better rethink that concept. Worst job I've ever seen... the workers at the Campbell's Soup factory standing before a converyor belt of vegetable chuncks rolling by. She has a vacumn hose and sucks ups the bad chunks. I could last for maybe an hour at that job before I would suck my eyeballs out.

Thank you Cyrano, you're very sweet. True, monotonous chores should be removed. Small details does apply to SEI better.

[tereg]

He and minde are the same, identicals, both at 9w1 both are unwilling or concerned to VI;

Just to clarify, I never said I was unwilling to do it. Being silent =/= unwilling.

In due time.

[Beautiful sky]

Just to clarify, I never said I was unwilling to do it. Being silent =/= unwilling.

In due time.

Because your type does not like to argue as I do not also, we look so meek and fragile and very delicate. You confuse our duals into thinking you're INFj, but please remember that in the long run the way the fuctions come together, you would not want to be with an ESTj because that would be a relation of supervision where the ESTj always has an upper hand in matters and that would not lend you to a comfortable relationship.

ESTj constantly watches over ISFp, even though you will feel that control, because of your non-argumentative nature, will not say or do anything about it. And if my dual here, had some sense, he would leave Minde alone for a while.

ESTj does see Minde as interesting and capable, right? That's what supervisors do, but that only increases ESTj to want to change ("work with them") ISFp to what they want, which is their dual.

http://www.socionics.com/rel/sp.htm

Duality and dualization is not "working with someone" (as would be in relations of supervision) to realize certain aspects or things about themselves or "change". Duals come together and quickly, if they are open and receptive to one another, start reading each others feelings and thoughts and dualize.

[Beautiful sky]

EII love to proactively help people to understand themselves and their relationships with other human beings; you have over 4000 posts and I don't see you offering any moral outlook as well as assiting individuals with any certain counseling related issues, so it seems all very personal and narrow to you. EII is also not clickish with regard to holding friends and friendships for certain activites or hangouts. I love everyone together for everything.

[shorebreaker]

i think a facet of the IEI that isn't as present in the EII is their tendency to self-disclose to establish rapport. EIIs (as i understand it) like it when other dislcose, but they themselves aren't as comfortable expressing their deep convictions.

if my dad is a textbook example of an EII, they are VERY mild people and will rarely say a harsh word to someone even if they don't like them. they will be congenial, but they will never act like someone they're not. IEIs use their to act differently around other people (i certainly do).

he has also said to me that he gets a lot of satisfaction out of helping other people

[shorebreaker]

I don't show emotions to elicit reactions from people, I show emotions when I feel comfortable doing so because it feels more genuine and truthful to show what it is that I'm feeling. I hate smiling when I'm anxious. If I'm anxious, I look anxious. If I'm depressed, I look depressed.

this is definitely suggestive of an EII too! my neighbor, a girl i grew up with, is an EII. i talked with her mom the other day, and she said her daughter was always true to her feelings as a child; other children would ask her if she wanted to play, and she might say something like, "well i was going to go read a book." it didn't occur to her that the kid liked her, wanted to get to know her, or even that it might be inappropriate to say that, she was just being honest. with an EII, i think, what you see is what you get.

their is their opposing function, but it doesn't develop until later in life, i think, so EII children will likely show blithe unawareness of the emotional connotations of what they say until they develop their . once is developed, though, it constantly nags at them to be consistent with social norms so they don't upset anyone.

[Beautiful sky]

i think a facet of the IEI that isn't as present in the EII is their tendency to self-disclose to establish rapport. EIIs (as i understand it) like it when other dislcose, but they themselves aren't as comfortable expressing their deep convictions.

if my dad is a textbook example of an EII, they are VERY mild people and will rarely say a harsh word to someone even if they don't like them. they will be congenial, but they will never act like someone they're not. IEIs use their to act differently around other people (i certainly do).

he has also said to me that he gets a lot of satisfaction out of helping other people

Thank goodness someone noticed. I don't curse. Does your father? I know for sure that Tereg has cursed before. "Sh*t" is the only word I can say.

[Lobo]

Thank goodness someone noticed. I don't curse. Does your father? I know for sure that Tereg has cursed before. "Sh*t" is the only word I can say.

This kind of talk is starting to make me sick... I mean, this is so illogical that it leaves me speechless for argument. Cursing is a situational thing, and that's all I have to say.

[Beautiful sky]

This kind of talk is starting to make me sick... I mean, this is so illogical that it leaves me speechless for argument. Cursing is a situational thing, and that's all I have to say.

Not for humanitarian EII!!! You can think about that and look back at my previous posts;

[Lobo]

Not for humanitarian EII!!! You can think about that and look back at my previous posts;

No thanks...

[shorebreaker]

This kind of talk is starting to make me sick... I mean, this is so illogical that it leaves me speechless for argument. Cursing is a situational thing, and that's all I have to say.

you make a good point Lobo. EIIs like my dad and Maritsa tend to speak in absolutes, e.g. use words like "always, never, you are, you are not". She did specify that she uses the word shit sometimes, though, her descriptors were just static.

I rarely use absolutes because i know most things in life is situational (i'm a dynamic type). I said that my dad rarely says a harsh word, not that he never says a harsh word. When he does, he often apologizes later though, and says something like, "that was inappropriate." He's very humble too, and thinks ego is very destructive.

[redbaron]

This is very true and correct. I don't trust the nature of Se, it's rather painful, I don't know if it will slap, thrust, push, shove, snap or strike.

exactly! it gets you moving, inspires. gosh I need a kick in the butt like every single day of my life.

[shorebreaker]

exactly! it gets you moving, inspires. gosh I need a kick in the butt like every single day of my life.

lol i like this, an excellent example of a difference between EII and IEI!
I identify with redbaron more

[shorebreaker]

Thank goodness someone noticed. I don't curse. Does your father? I know for sure that Tereg has cursed before. "Sh*t" is the only word I can say.

my dad curses, but he does it as a joke, and not very often. i've never heard him curse around anyone but me, and he only does it to be funny. it's not like he's trying to be cool in any way, he almost thinks the curse words themselves are the joke.

[Beautiful sky]

lol i like this, an excellent example of a difference between EII and IEI!
I identify with redbaron more

You are LSE, ESTj.

[shorebreaker]

You are IEI

alright, i think so too

[Beautiful sky]

alright, i think so too

So is Redbaron, you two are identical twin...what a nice thought.

[Marie84]

you make a good point Lobo. EIIs like my dad and Maritsa tend to speak in absolutes, e.g. use words like "always, never, you are, you are not". She did specify that she uses the word shit sometimes, though, her descriptors were just static.

That sounds more like Ne devaluing than Ne ego

[Beautiful sky]

That sounds more like Ne devaluing than Ne ego

Nope that has to do with making judgements of good and bad...morals.

[Azure Flame]

So what are the biggest differences and similarities between INFj and INFp?

[Beautiful sky]

We're both reactive about things that we care about; for example, both an INFj and an INFp may not agree that women should be made to take birth control, and we can both react intensely with "NO, that's just wrong." I don't act like a victim. I never complain; if something bad happens, I'll forget it as to make sure that efforts are made to sustain the integrity of the relationships; I'm not likely, as INFp are, to watch people's emotions and to tell people how to influence them. I think this is scummy. I don't want to "rule over" or to "control" others. I want to co-exist peacefully. I'm not likely to influence people emotionally; I calm people down like they do, but they have an emotional element about them, an ability to excite people, that I don't. Both an INFp and I can choose moments of sudden decision and action; our motives are different; mine is to produce the best outcome, theirs is to win/get ahead of the curve.


http://socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/dual-2p.html

Most important difference is that I will NEVER blame other human beings for my own misfortunes. The thought doesn't even cross my mind. I'll swallow my pride, take care of my own mistakes.

This isn't to say that INFj don't have faults; we do; we get so idealistic about things that we forget reality and try to "preach" "impose" "implement" our ideal thoughts/desires and that can hurt individuals if they get rebellious or if such things aren't important to them, but usually and INFj isn't aware that they are doing this because they keep pushing for that ideal.

An example. Well, the ideal man to an INFj is someone who is an intellectual, who is smart, and is able to carry discussions on a wide variety of topics. If a mate is less than ideal, she will get pushy and short with them, constantly telling them to get an education, in the meanwhile inability in expressing their emotions or trying not to directly hurt them will get that INFj to pull away from the relationship with very little regards to the other person's true emotions; what she/he's going for is an ideal and the partner isn't meeting that so the relationship is being diminished in value. I've known an INFj woman who found someone physically appropriate, but he wasn't an intellectual so she started to make unnecessary and excessive demands on him to raise his value, and that's they only way she rationalized she would continue being in the relationship with him. She told this poor guy that unless he could afford to buy and actually buy a ring for her, she wouldn't be with him. Really, this is a way of saying "I'm not interested in you; I just don't know how to tell that to myself. I'm making the relationship work because I make relationships work. But, I don't love you." She'll realize that no amount of money or no value of a ring can replace the intellectual compatibility she's looking for but she will satisfy her ego by controlling him.

[Radio]

both are NF types and introverted, they take in the same information but process it differently. both are usually interested in people, relationships, dynamics of social interaction and such. both are naturally adept at subjects which require conceptualizing algorithms and design (IME) and tend to be poor at subjects that veer into the technical, physical, manual and/or mechanical. both are usually invested in philosophy and ethics. both often tend to be emotionally vulnerable, even if they pretend otherwise. both easily get lost into the abyss of indecisiveness and often need a kick in the shins.

INFps are quick to measure people's emotional reactions/responses, their inner states, the unspoken and implicit aspects of communication.
INFjs are quick to notice people's motivations, insecurities, fears, beliefs by putting themselves in the other person's shoes.

INFjs are Ixxj, static and process.
INFps are Ixxp, dynamic and result.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Temperament
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Static
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ess_and_result

etc.

also

The IEI is [ethical] by philosophical standards, but everything they say is tainted by the hypocrisy they are sitting on their asses not doing anything to change their pointed observations. EIIs are [ethical] by cultural and personal standards, but then by stepping outside their culture or their belief structure they become hypocrites. For instance an EII is far more likely to support the war on terror than an IEI. A good and moral person should be difficult to pin into a type.

[Beautiful sky]

Actually. INFj are a static type and INFp are a dynamic; couple that with introversion, one is concerned about their own morals and values, feelings, judgements and the other is concerned about their own intuition; both look like one another momentarily when they display the other's primary function. So, yes they can look like each other, but observation over a long period of time will show you what the other is doing. I would suggest looking at Allie's posts, who I type INFp, and mine, and comparing them. You'll see that Allie is much more concerned about what people are doing with their time ().

[Radio]

I would suggest looking at Allie's posts, who I type INFp, and mine, and comparing them. You'll see that Allie is much more concerned about what people are doing with their time ().

Stop misleading people, that's not what Ni means, if you understood a lick of what Jung said you would realize that's not what he meant by "time".

[Beautiful sky]

This thread...

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...hlight=forward

(dynamic) perceives internal reactions to external potentiality. Today the possibilities might seem inviting and favorable, but tomorrow they might produce a sense of foreboding or despondency.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post851309


And this post:

it varies based on what i'm doing or what i'm on or how i feel etc. sometimes super fast when mY mind's occupied, or slow etc.

[chrys]

Okie thanks EII over IEI confirmed. ^^

[draon9]

One is horny and the other is a drama queen

[GuavaDrunk]

One is horny and the other is a drama queen

How will the horny drama queens of the world ever type themselves now?

It is le joke.

[ooo]

What are the things that come to your mind when thinking of these 2 types? What're the key differences? How do you distinguish them?

Opinions are welcome

[ooo]

@Sol come here spread ur fizzy essence