Example of ISTp's vs INTj's perception

[flower]

I showed an INTj friend a picture I really like, and it turned into a 30min discussion

Have a look

http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database...w.pl?id=103437

Ok, let me show you some differences in how Si and Ti percieve and think about the image.

Si
Its beautiful, absolutely beautiful, sooo aesthetic, look at the colours, they go together so well, and the light shining through the woods gives the picture incredible character. The way she is lying is peaceful, she is amoungst nature, and its in a way symbolic of harmony. Look at the details, look at them!, the transparency of her dress and the ripples in it, the leaves on top, the light and shadow, the leaves in the foregroung giving depth. Overall, the image is very clean and precise, refined and is one of peace, harmony and beauty.

Ti
Its very dark, it looks like quite a sad picture, she looks like she is dead because of the way she is lying with her wrist up, the colours are nice but the forest looks evil, and whats that tree doing to her, its going to grab her, why is there a sword there, maybe that tree has killed her with it, maybe its her sword. Its interesting and well drawn, but there is a lack of content in a way, and that dress would be too long to walk in! Overall its quite a sullen picture, negative and therefore not something I would have on my wall and look at on a regular basis. Its well done and polished, the artist is talented, but its quite dark and depressive.

Ok, thats the jist of it, you see, after I was saying she was missing the point, she couldnt see my emphisis and was reading into the picture in a way which I wasnt. It comes down to this:

Si looks at it and goes, time is irrelivant here, the picture is judged on its ability to evoke emotion and produce symbolism via its aesthetic quality, other things are not important. eg the dress is very long not for any real reason, only because its makes the picture more aesthetic.

Ti looks at it and goes, this is a snapshot in a story, or this image has a context which it is in, the image is telling a story, which the viewer can read into, and the images ability to tell that story via its ques, is what gives it its character and appeal.

[Creepy-bg]

that site crashes my browser for some reason

[flower]

aww, it works on mine, I would be interested to see how other people and other types percieve the image, and what they would say about it.

http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database...l?gallery=1849

Maybe if it dosent work for you try this and go to the first one in the gallery, its called 'the forest mage'

[Not A Communist Shill]

When I look at the pic, I think 'I like the colours in the background, but overall it's a bit garish', and then I look at specific elements of the picture, asking questions such as

- 'why is she positioned like that?'
- 'what is the significance of the white dress?'
- 'presumably, she is the forest mage, and not the tree - you couldn't be expected to guess that from the title - so why does she have a sword?'
- 'Maybe it was used to kill her? Or is just used for artistic effect?
- 'Are there unseen characters just out of view? Who is watching?'
- 'Was she overpowered by the tree because she was asleep?...is she still alive?'
- 'There are leaves on her dress...has she been there long? etc.
- 'What has she done to get into this position? - is she a victim, or someone who tried to destroy the forest's magic?'
- 'Where does that path lead?'

So, I guess I ask questions in my head (and to anyone who listens), and I postulate answers to those questions, and then further questions based on those possible answers . I think the Si + Ti descriptions are very good, though I admired the aesthetic qualities too (though perhaps they seem secondary to the message shown in the objects of the picture - they are the medium by which the story is told).

[Creepy-bg]

you guys think too much... you need to smoke some pot

[Slacker]

I wondered if she was dead too, and who might have killed her and why. But it is a beautiful picture.

[aestrivex]

what is up with the toe?

[anndelise]

eh *shrug*

Had i not read the descriptions on this thread already, I wouldn't have even noticed the details of the tree growth and the fallen leaves on the white sheet.

I did notice the white sheet she is wrapped up in
I did notice that the sword seems totally out of place
I wonder how she got there
and it's easy for me to make up a few little stories of how she could have gotten there
one being that she had been carried there by whoever had the sword, maybe because the sword carrier was going to burry her.....or maybe to give her body to the forest
but why would he leave the sword behind if her body was an offering?
though it's easier for me to think that he left the sword there so he could dig the needed hole, I don't really think that was the intended story behind the picture

the artists is talented
and he seemed to go into great effort to elaborate on the sheet wrapped around her
almost as if showing off his skill with drapery was the purpose of the drawing
but other than the sheet, I have a difficult time looking at any other part of the drawing as I just don't enjoy paying attention to details, particularly sensory details

[Creepy-bg]

ok... finally got it load right. I like the colors alot (especially the forest off in the distance) I don't know, she doesn't look dead at all to me. looks like she's just chillin' and maybe enjoying the tactiles off that little fuzzy bit of grass she's carresing. pretty much the same line of lookin/thinkin that Flower was describing... love the details in the cloth and how the light hits it. Good stuff!

[aestrivex]

what is up with the toe?

No, that's her other foot.

oic

[Jeremy1988]

Well, I might have been influenced by reading the name of the painting, "Forest Mage," and seeing the word "Fantasy," but here's what I saw:

The girl has a sort of peace with nature, she is totally comfortable with and trusting of it. The tree is embracing her because she is tired, and it is grateful for her protection. It's sort of her friend. The sword is some sort of legendary blade, and she is there to make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

My impression was very different from the above ones, so I'm not sure what function I used to describe it.

[force my hand]

I definitely identify with the perspective on this one. Colours, mood, the way objects like the folds of her gown stand out in almost a surreal sort of way. "Is this a place that could affect me? Yes."

It's not until I've made this preliminary assessment that I actually look to see what's going on. In my eyes, I see nothing threatening. It looks like she's taking a nap and that the tree is making a protective gesture.

[FDG]

I think that there is a shitload of Te too in that description

personally *sigh* i...immediatly wondered if that was a good place where to have sex

[meatburger]

I think that there is a shitload of Te too in that description

personally *sigh* i...immediatly wondered if that was a good place where to have sex

Haha youve got the baby batter on the brain dude

It doesn't actually look a comfy place to rest to me. The way her arm is flailed out to one side makes me think shes going to slip off the tree. Its also a pretty small tree to be resting on. Also if a big gust of wind comes or a giant wolf attacks her your definitely going to see her bits and pieces. Although maybe shes out there to get a root? :wink:

[Creepy-bg]

I think that there is a shitload of Te too in that description

personally *sigh* i...immediatly wondered if that was a good place where to have sex

I had sex in the desert once in a little yoda hut we built. Even though the girl was hot and we were drunk on strange liquore it was not comfortable sex in the slightest. I prefer indoors I think.

[UDP]

Si
Its beautiful, absolutely beautiful, sooo aesthetic, look at the colours, they go together so well, and the light shining through the woods gives the picture incredible character. The way she is lying is peaceful, she is amoungst nature, and its in a way symbolic of harmony. Look at the details, look at them!, the transparency of her dress and the ripples in it, the leaves on top, the light and shadow, the leaves in the foregroung giving depth. Overall, the image is very clean and precise, refined and is one of peace, harmony and beauty.

Ti
Its very dark, it looks like quite a sad picture, she looks like she is dead because of the way she is lying with her wrist up, the colours are nice but the forest looks evil, and whats that tree doing to her, its going to grab her, why is there a sword there, maybe that tree has killed her with it, maybe its her sword. Its interesting and well drawn, but there is a lack of content in a way, and that dress would be too long to walk in! Overall its quite a sullen picture, negative and therefore not something I would have on my wall and look at on a regular basis. Its well done and polished, the artist is talented, but its quite dark and depressive.

Ok, thats the jist of it, you see, after I was saying she was missing the point, she couldnt see my emphisis and was reading into the picture in a way which I wasnt. It comes down to this:

Si looks at it and goes, time is irrelivant here, the picture is judged on its ability to evoke emotion and produce symbolism via its aesthetic quality, other things are not important. eg the dress is very long not for any real reason, only because its makes the picture more aesthetic.

Ti looks at it and goes, this is a snapshot in a story, or this image has a context which it is in, the image is telling a story, which the viewer can read into, and the images ability to tell that story via its ques, is what gives it its character and appeal.

That is a reasonable Ti interpretation. The picture is not "appealing" to me. It looks almost like she is/was/ about to get raped (consensually perhaps). I do not know the story behind it, maybe she likes getting wrapped up in the tree, but her arm is still restrained in an awkward way. It seems like something is happening to her without her knowing it, and I wonder if that subconsciously is what is most irritating to an LII.

[Topaz]

I think its a well executed fantasy picture that you could wrap a million stories around. I dont see it as dark or sad, maybe mysterious.