gamma duality is a myth

[theum nathair]

gamma duality is a myth. share evidence in this thread

e.g.,
I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types
Lately I have enjoyed watching an LSI type supervise and discomfit a rather pretty west-asian SEE I work with. I don’t hate her but, watching her squirm, I'm really entertained. I'm not sure why I've been deriving enjoyment from such a thing. In fact I mostly agree with the SEE's points, although she is whingeing a bit; the LSI basically responds with categorical statements along the lines of 'things aren't the way you're portraying them'. He's black and has an advanced maths degree which isn't common--not something he mentions but I think her air of entitlement rubs him up the wrong way. Anyway he isn't being cruel, he's just making better arguments and she doesn't appear able to elucidate her thoughts when he starts arguing with her. Nor has she mastered the self-control necessary to remain silent. One can see her mounting frustration. I have bitten back all commentary at least, but I feel as if, being exposed to her, something a bit sick is surfacing in my conscious mind.
On the other hand, if some bloke repeatedly 'corrected' an SLE woman I know, I'd probably wish to intervene awkwardly, and somewhere a voice would say 'dismount thy pallid charger, idiot'.
IR were invented and perpetuated by alphas so I don't think it absurd to suggest the system simply breaks in gamma.

-->gamma SF use charm to monopolise power positions and pervert the job market, meanwhile gamma NT do stupid crank shit and think cruel things about gamma SF types because although γ-NT still make money they can’t rise/fall as quickly

[nifl]

I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types

mistypings are more likely

I don't think it's absurd to suggest it simply breaks in gamma.

since gamma also has 4 shared valued functions; 2 types each with opposite strong functions; all 4 ''temperaments'', it is absurd

meanwhile gamma NT do stupid crank shit

being Te, I see them as rather reasonable from the point of view of T. to see your identical/mirror as doing ''stupid crank shit'' is unusual, as their behaviour and goals should be seen as the most immediately reasonable of all types.

F as an option for you should not be ruled out. it's probably not ILI/LIE, at least

[theum nathair]

mistypings are more likely


since gamma also has 4 shared valued functions; 2 types each with opposite strong functions; all 4 ''temperaments'', it is absurd


being Te, I see them as rather reasonable from the point of view of T. to see your identical/mirror as doing ''stupid crank shit'' is unusual, as their behaviour and goals should be seen as the most immediately reasonable of all types.

F as an option for you should not be ruled out. it's probably not ILI/LIE, at least

Cheers for the effort but as the opinions you've expressed are more subjective than you seem to realise, not to mention based on assumptions hardly grounded in fact, it amounts to well-informed foolishness

[theum nathair]

to see your identical/mirror as doing ''stupid crank shit'' is unusual

You know, I rather do see the resemblance between you and Sol. Inability to recognise humour and irony shouldn't be type-related, but could be autism-related
>an unfortunate corollary of autism is the potential for cognitive impairments. I only mention this because one or both accounts have expressed an interested in eugenics, and intellectual disability is highly relevant to that topic

[anotherperson]

mistypings are more likely


since gamma also has 4 shared valued functions; 2 types each with opposite strong functions; all 4 ''temperaments'', it is absurd


being Te, I see them as rather reasonable from the point of view of T. to see your identical/mirror as doing ''stupid crank shit'' is unusual, as their behaviour and goals should be seen as the most immediately reasonable of all types.

F as an option for you should not be ruled out. it's probably not ILI/LIE, at least

lack of duality occurs for many reasons

such as life experiences and expectations of relationships going forward

also perhaps bad luck , poor character on the SEE half.

and then also , duality is not the same for every type , even by inner socionics rules.

[Distance]

gamma duality is a myth. share evidence in this thread

e.g.,
I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types
Lately I have enjoyed watching an LSI type supervise and discomfit a rather pretty west-asian SEE I work with. I don’t hate her but, watching her squirm, I'm really entertained. I'm not sure why I've been deriving enjoyment from such a thing. In fact I mostly agree with the SEE's points, although she is whingeing a bit; the LSI basically responds with categorical statements along the lines of 'things aren't the way you're portraying them'. He's black and has an advanced maths degree which isn't common--not something he mentions but I think her air of entitlement rubs him up the wrong way. Anyway he isn't being cruel, he's just making better arguments and she doesn't appear able to elucidate her thoughts when he starts arguing with her. Nor has she mastered the self-control necessary to remain silent. One can see her mounting frustration. I have bitten back all commentary at least, but I feel as if, being exposed to her, something a bit sick is surfacing in my conscious mind.
On the other hand, if some bloke repeatedly 'corrected' an SLE woman I know, I'd probably wish to intervene awkwardly, and somewhere a voice would say 'dismount thy pallid charger, idiot'.
IR were invented and perpetuated by alphas so I don't think it absurd to suggest the system simply breaks in gamma.

-->gamma SF use charm to monopolise power positions and pervert the job market, meanwhile gamma NT do stupid crank shit and think cruel things about gamma SF types because although γ-NT still make money they can’t rise/fall as quickly

Go to other forums and ENFP is the preference, INFJ ( IEI) is runner up. By a landslide. And ENTPs run from SEI. IEI is the choice.

[theum nathair]

Go to other forums and ENFP is the preference, INFJ ( IEI) is runner up. By a landslide. And ENTPs run from SEI. IEI is the choice.

Makes sense. I've often thought greater similarity in cognition would be favoured in online interactions as they're inherently low-context. Yet something like duality seems plausible in meatspace, where there's ... I dunno what to call it, an accretion of nonverbal data which in their totality amount to a sort of mesmerism

[Distance]

Makes sense. I've often thought greater similarity in cognition would be favoured in online interactions as they're inherently low-context. Yet something like duality seems plausible in meatspace, where there's ... I dunno what to call it, an accretion of nonverbal data which in their totality amount to a sort of mesmerism

Well, i'm referring to SO in real relationships.

INTJ with INFP ENFP INFJ is the preferences. (MBTI terms)

The idea is nothing in common with say an ESFP wanting to boogie on the dance floor all night with ILI, and sure it's stimulating, except long term intellectual stimulation.

My sister in law is ESE with LSI husband, and this is common i've seen in real spaces. It seems to work.

[Distance]

Gulenko is married to EIE. Imagine it the other way, to a dual. The latter are rigid and rules oriented with Si, have trouble adapting the new, and not very ideational by nature.

The language is in ideas, cross talking and translating to the language of static objects. If you look at a painting one sees what's there, and the other sees what's behind it by way of ideas.

Just something to think about.

ILI are data Te oriented. I'd recommend having a peek at MBTI stats on long term marriages in who stays with who, and guess what? N to N and S to S forge it that way.

[Distance]

[Muira]

gamma duality is a myth. share evidence in this thread

e.g.,
I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types
Lately I have enjoyed watching an LSI type supervise and discomfit a rather pretty west-asian SEE I work with. I don’t hate her but, watching her squirm, I'm really entertained. I'm not sure why I've been deriving enjoyment from such a thing. In fact I mostly agree with the SEE's points, although she is whingeing a bit; the LSI basically responds with categorical statements along the lines of 'things aren't the way you're portraying them'. He's black and has an advanced maths degree which isn't common--not something he mentions but I think her air of entitlement rubs him up the wrong way. Anyway he isn't being cruel, he's just making better arguments and she doesn't appear able to elucidate her thoughts when he starts arguing with her. Nor has she mastered the self-control necessary to remain silent. One can see her mounting frustration. I have bitten back all commentary at least, but I feel as if, being exposed to her, something a bit sick is surfacing in my conscious mind.
On the other hand, if some bloke repeatedly 'corrected' an SLE woman I know, I'd probably wish to intervene awkwardly, and somewhere a voice would say 'dismount thy pallid charger, idiot'.
IR were invented and perpetuated by alphas so I don't think it absurd to suggest the system simply breaks in gamma.

-->gamma SF use charm to monopolise power positions and pervert the job market, meanwhile gamma NT do stupid crank shit and think cruel things about gamma SF types because although γ-NT still make money they can’t rise/fall as quickly

Gamma duality is cursed, never seen a real life example, saying it doesn't exist in the first place makes sense to say.

ESI-LIE seems to happen more often, but break up pretty quickly. SEE-ILI seems like a fever dream, a monkey in a lab, like two different species in polar opposite habitats.

[one]

It’s not like the other quadras are winning in this area anyway. Just this month I got acquainted with 4 couples (all married to each other) and I think none are duals.

Idk if that’s a battle that should be won too anyway. 3 of them are long standing relationships and all of them seem okay enough. They seem happy or at least okay with each other. The other one complains about the other but it’s more of a joke and something they think as typical of old married couples.

The ones I type as Extroverted Gammas are low-key gross. Even if the connection is good you just can’t get past certain things they do. I’m still close to an LIE though but… jesus christ. The one that I type that could be SEE gives me same feelings but 2x. Weirdly it’s hard to get rid of them even if I try.

[theum nathair]

Gulenko is married to EIE. Imagine it the other way, to a dual. The latter are rigid and rules oriented with Si, have trouble adapting the new, and not very ideational by nature.

The language is in ideas, cross talking and translating to the language of static objects. If you look at a painting one sees what's there, and the other sees what's behind it by way of ideas.

Just something to think about.

ILI are data Te oriented. I'd recommend having a peek at MBTI stats on long term marriages in who stays with who, and guess what? N to N and S to S forge it that way.

I've noticed the data, and yet, one expects N+N and S+S to be more common even if socionics has the right idea. For one thing, 'coincidence of meanings' between MBTI perceiving functions and socionic irrational functions may be sort of low; for another, educational background skews results a bit, and would certainly have some bearing on who marries whom; lastly and most importantly, more similar minds would have readier semantic exchanges, reducing chaos early on, without necessarily implying superior compatibility. To wit, if everyone dates N and S types in equal proportions, then perhaps N types like other N types better; but if N types typically date other N types, then it would follow that N types are predisposed to marry N types, and the numbers would look better even if the divorce rates were average. I just find it sort of intriguing that, before creating socionics, Augustinaviciute examined marriages which had grown inexplicably antagonistic... if all unhappy marriages ended in divorce, the stats would tell us more. As things stand, it's hard to extrapolate the data to a statement of what sort of match would be desirable. We can only say what is expected, and that doesn't disagree with a priori assumptions either

Also, forgive me, isn't your wife SEI? When you had mentioned her, you didn't sound discontented... would you be willing to comment further? Do you suppose you might have been happier with another intuitive?

[Sol]

> I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types

you have F
the ones who you think SEE may to have other type

other IR than people think should be often problem
for example, the match of IEI and ESE, SEI and SEE - would be not easy.

In a minority of cases when IR are correct, then "non-types" reasons may be significantly negative to be glad by interactions. Objective negative reasons in you and/or other human, and concretely in him for you (the same as with Jung types).

[anotherperson]

> I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types

you have F
the ones who you think SEE may to have other type

why do you say everyone has ethics sol .

[Distance]

I've noticed the data, and yet, one expects N+N and S+S to be more common even if socionics has the right idea. For one thing, 'coincidence of meanings' between MBTI perceiving functions and socionic irrational functions may be sort of low; for another, educational background skews results a bit, and would certainly have some bearing on who marries whom; lastly and most importantly, more similar minds would have readier semantic exchanges, reducing chaos early on, without necessarily implying superior compatibility. To wit, if everyone dates N and S types in equal proportions, then perhaps N types like other N types better; but if N types typically date other N types, then it would follow that N types are predisposed to marry N types, and the numbers would look better even if the divorce rates were average. I just find it sort of intriguing that, before creating socionics, Augustinaviciute examined marriages which had grown inexplicably antagonistic... if all unhappy marriages ended in divorce, the stats would tell us more. As things stand, it's hard to extrapolate the data to a statement of what sort of match would be desirable. We can only say what is expected, and that doesn't disagree with a priori assumptions either

Also, forgive me, isn't your wife SEI? When you had mentioned her, you didn't sound discontented... would you be willing to comment further? Do you suppose you might have been happier with another intuitive?

Do you suppose you might have been happier with another intuitive?

Lol, what an INTJ question.

I find an attraction to ILI and vice versa. IDK why. I think i had a friend once, because he always felt alienated by people who accept the face value without questioning a thing or paradigms, and he always loved to hear my side of is there free will vs not arguments, or other. He described me as liberating. Stoic, not too often smiled dude, but conformed to keep the peace. Prob ILI. Alone in company is the ILI bumper sticker.

Re SEI the stream is never stepped in twice. I think i find we meet in the middle. Things like my lyrical lines are completely missed though, IDK if you'all get them here anyway. It might be my density at play, or where other SEI would dance with it, also also.


Yeah 7-8 out 10 in H scale of happiness.

[theum nathair]

> I’m ILI and can’t get on with SEE types

you have F

Instead of doggedly repeating your theories, why don't we settle this in a more practical way.

Find a formal logics test, either verbal logic or maths I don't really care, and we'll both take it. A forumite did this once, years ago when everyone was typing me IEI or some other unlikely type... Myst had the highest score and Mu and I tied for second place. They're both IXTx types. It isn't a coincidence; I had full marks on calculus exams at uni and everything. 'Type' is a best-fit match, and I'm clearly better with logics than ethics.

I say I'm a logical type because whatever my attainments, logical pursuits have been consistently easier --i.e., same effort yields better results.

Anyway I don't think it unlikely that I'd perform better on a formal logics test than you would... but there's no need to speculate. Let's compete

[theum nathair]

why do you say everyone has ethics sol .

He's got to be the biggest man lol

[persimmonism]

Duality was invented by an Alpha and if you think about it:
Fi/Te: compatible values, good moral character >> compatible "personality type", information transfer most making sense (Ti/Fe)
Se/Ni: compatible goals, endeavors >> minimal psychological tension, maximal ease and comfort (Si/Ne)

The director of the art atelier I take classes at is SEE-Se (8w7/7w8). Her partner is ILI-Ni (9w1) and he comes around and fixes things up every now and then. She is short and squat (she's a dwarf, actually) and he's veery tall and lanky. She enters the room and fills it up, he's like a shadow. Both physically and otherwise, they could not appear more different!
Here is a cute LIE-ESI couple. 32 years apart, a compatible duality is what makes it a no/minimal-brainer, I guess And maybe some dualities are more prone to age gaps than others, Lol.

[Adam Strange]

I've met a lot of Duals, both male and female, and I get along with all of them seamlessly. I've slept with a couple of the females; the sex was very good but not the absolute greatest.* I found that the two ESIs I slept with were both selfish. Maybe that's Aggression, or bad previous partners, or maybe they didn't have their heads on straight. I don't know and I don't care. Selfishness gets you the "Try again with someone else" card.

I haven't yet met a female Dual with whom we agreed to form a long-term, sexual partnership. I have an ESI interior decorator, and we both kind of agreed (by default? By everyday repeated choices?) to have a long term relationship, but it's not sexual.

I'm still looking for an ESI who wants me as much as I want her, in the same ways, for the same reasons.

*Absolute greatest sex was with the two LSI females I dated. (They were identical in bed. Think about that when you are doubting the validity of Socionics.) Unfortunately, great sex didn't entirely make up for the rest of the relationship's qualities.

[Sol]

I haven't yet met a female Dual with whom we agreed to form a long-term, sexual partnership.

Among your duals could be your ex-wife (mb LSI). While ESI are doubtful to be your duals.
You also claimed ESI are lesser attractive pair for you than LSI. So the ones who you tend to think as your duals are doubtful to be such.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Novelty can feel 'odd'. Non-intellectual attraction in a professional environment can be that. It seems that you've been stirred in a way you are not used to and it doesn't sound half bad to me. Reading these self-observatory notes was interesting and entertaining.

Your 'meatspace' post is interesting too. This kind of consideration has been traversing my mindspace lately. Having been a schizoid hermit nerd for the past 23 years, it hits home.

[nifl]

He's got to be the biggest man lol

psychology forums attract more F types than T types

[theum nathair]

psychology forums attract more F types than T types

Probably true, but a trend hardly provides insight into the individual case. In this case, if you alone were in firm command of logic, then perhaps the credulous would buy into your personal adjustments to the theoretical system under discussion.

If only another party who spoke English a bit better would appear to tell everyone Sol has been right all these years... nifl is like a divine bestowal

[theum nathair]

Duality was invented by an Alpha and if you think about it:
Fi/Te: compatible values, good moral character >> compatible "personality type", information transfer most making sense (Ti/Fe)
Se/Ni: compatible goals, endeavors >> minimal psychological tension, maximal ease and comfort (Si/Ne)

The director of the art atelier I take classes at is SEE-Se (8w7/7w8). Her partner is ILI-Ni (9w1) and he comes around and fixes things up every now and then. She is short and squat (she's a dwarf, actually) and he's veery tall and lanky. She enters the room and fills it up, he's like a shadow. Both physically and otherwise, they could not appear more different!
Here is a cute LIE-ESI couple. 32 years apart, a compatible duality is what makes it a no/minimal-brainer, I guess And maybe some dualities are more prone to age gaps than others, Lol.

Wau, I'm also 'veery tall and lanky'. ILI confirm and final?

:yawn: well I suppose I don't mind stocky builds but I don't fancy short women. What if I were to hurt my back. I'd have no reservations about dating a woman a bit taller than me

I'm not saying gamma duality can't exist, only if you've found examples, surely they aren't gammas. Nor bloody scotsmen

[theum nathair]

I've met a lot of Duals, both male and female, and I get along with all of them seamlessly.

Sorry but Adam, you'd most likely get along with your conflictors (probably not uncommon in that particular intertype, neither LIE nor SEI being precisely inclined to throw a spark into the powder flask). Perhaps you wouldn't describe the interaction as seamless, but you're sociable and you give people the benefit of the doubt. You've already done as much as anyone can do to optimise relations; even an ESI can't fault you

Yet I'd argue 'getting along seamlessly' is not the pinnacle of relationship success in gamma. I personally would endure some conflict to feel persistent devotion... only I can't silence the pragmatic eschewal which ruins most attempts as surely as if, one snowy day in childhood, I had blinked and got a shard of cursed mirror-glass in me eye lol

I haven't yet met a female Dual with whom we agreed to form a long-term, sexual partnership. I have an ESI interior decorator, and we both kind of agreed (by default? By everyday repeated choices?) to have a long term relationship, but it's not sexual.

I'm still looking for an ESI who wants me as much as I want her, in the same ways, for the same reasons.

This is sort of my point... in gamma, LTR is highly valued but not regarded as urgent (except perhaps in ESI... in which case it's not a coincidence one seldom encounters a properly-single ESI in the wild)

Ceremony is valued in beta and perfunctory in gamma, so it isn't as if the wedding and accumulation of mutual acquaintances can sort of keep gammas glued to one another once the flaws in the heart begin to manifest themselves. A gamma type, beginning to waver, cannot be persuaded to stay on. A beta type might say 'oh the tragedy... the waste...' --so they split and reunite, only gammas are practical to a fault, with all implicit functions applying to fields, and relationships are often explicitly impractical. So the waste is to linger and perpetuate the error.

Honesty is more important in gamma than spared feelings, in deference to which perceives the repeating error, making the baseline of βγ relationships more contentious. Its symptoms appear a bit different to those in β but strength and raw ability () are also important in γ. ESI are again the exception, they can mature into a δ-ish humorous appreciation of human flaws... all the same, central quadrants inevitably ascend a steeper acclivity

On balance, then, gamma types tend to perfectionism coupled with alternative priorities -- not the chivalric β romance, it must fit alongside separate careers, and γSF and γNT types do not tend to work in the same fields... and so praxis reveals a dream which is never actualised

(They were identical in bed. Think about that when you are doubting the validity of Socionics.)

as I've told Batucos, I don't doubt the typical remit of personality theories, but their comprehensive applicability

As signal must be distinguished from noise, the cycle must admit the genetic sport

[FreelancePoliceman]

If only another party who spoke English a bit better would appear to tell everyone Sol has been right all these years... nifl is like a divine bestowal

There may be different "rights" and "wrongs" for different people. Sol's jihad against noobery seems fitting for him. He just wouldn't be Sol without that fire.

Look at his username -- the unconquered sun. The fire must ever burn.

[theum nathair]

There may be different "rights" and "wrongs" for different people. Sol's jihad against noobery seems fitting for him. He just wouldn't be Sol without that fire.

Look at his username -- the unconquered sun. The fire must ever burn.

If you're convinced it's noobery he's railing against, I don't know what to tell you.

After all, how could the lot of us manage, nefariously, to defeat all socionics tests and have 'logics' as a result if we were truly ignorant of the system.

[FreelancePoliceman]

If you're convinced it's noobery he's railing against, I don't know what to tell you.

After all, how could the lot of us manage, nefariously, to defeat all socionics tests and have 'logics' as a result if we were truly ignorant of the system.

The entire race of man is nothing against the invincible sun.

[theum nathair]

The entire race of man is nothing against the invincible sun.

Yes, quite. Only this thread is titled 'the myth of gamma duality', not 'lick sol's arse here'. It's a common mistake, I'm sure.

[persimmonism]

Wau, I'm also 'veery tall and lanky'. ILI confirm and final?

:yawn: well I suppose I don't mind stocky builds but I don't fancy short women. What if I were to hurt my back. I'd have no reservations about dating a woman a bit taller than me

I'm not saying gamma duality can't exist, only if you've found examples, surely they aren't gammas. Nor bloody scotsmen

My parents are ESI-Se + ILI-Ni.
So close yet so FAR.

Ceremony is valued in beta and perfunctory in gamma, so it isn't as if the wedding and accumulation of mutual acquaintances can sort of keep gammas glued to one another once the flaws in the heart begin to manifest themselves. A gamma type, beginning to waver, cannot be persuaded to stay on. A beta type might say 'oh the tragedy... the waste...' --so they split and reunite, only gammas are practical to a fault, with all implicit functions applying to fields, and relationships are often explicitly impractical. So the waste is to linger and perpetuate the error.

Honesty is more important in gamma than spared feelings, in deference to which perceives the repeating error, making the baseline of βγ relationships more contentious. Its symptoms appear a bit different to those in β but strength and raw ability () are also important in γ. ESI are again the exception, they can mature into a δ-ish humorous appreciation of human flaws... all the same, central quadrants inevitably ascend a steeper acclivity

On balance, then, gamma types tend to perfectionism coupled with alternative priorities -- not the chivalric β romance, it must fit alongside separate careers, and γSF and γNT types do not tend to work in the same fields... and so praxis reveals a dream which is never actualised

One of the best things I've read on here in a while..
"Beta wishes to test the strength of their emotions." About my own relationship with an SLE, I've often thought about how if we belonged to any other quadra our romance would be long dead. Beta really is built to endure through all hardship. I sense clearly my parents' opinion of us. In practical ways, we are a terrible clash. The gamma way is hard for me to stomach. Yes, I know I'm impractical, but "praxis" as you say.. well: Praxis, the killer of romance.
I guess it is a conundrum of sorts if you are Gamma yet SX. It will take a really, really lucky lady-bug, to come and enter your life.

[theum nathair]

The solution for a lonely ILI can be found in this film: split the brain, deposit right half into skull cavity of a mummified bit of plastic, apply lipstick, and voila — the perfect girlfriend

Of course, as a child I was horrified to learn upon watching this scene that such fools were allowed to practise medicine.

[Mairon]

Just my opinions:
- duality has to be taken not religiously. First, because sociotypes describe people, but aren't real things. Second, every human being has is peculiar preference and characteristics, which create attraction or repulsion to other and are not described by theory (being personal). For exemple, I prefer ESIs (ESI-Se) to SEEs because they are more loyal, and loyalty is a essential value to me.
- It is possible to encounter people belonging to the same type but with very different behavior and values due to the different place they live. I always thoguth not liking the kind of SEE of my Town, but when I moved to other places I found different SEEs (and other types in general);
- Duality is better experienced when you are older (23+ yo). As a teen people doesn't even know theirselves. I changed a lot my perception about SEEs

My idea is that duality is something more visceral and "natural" (in a feral sense), rather than perfect or good (it could be good, but it's not a rule). I perceive that SEE match perfecly my worst sexual perversions and the need to have someone strong who takes decisions. Yet, they are too much unstable to make a family with. ESI makes me feel more special, and I have a strong Fi need.

Anyway, I experienced that SEE and ESI-Se girls are a lot attracted by me even if I don't even care about them. Idk if they behave like this with everyone or it's really some kind of duality (or activity) attraction.

[one]

I will never choose an SEE for anything even dooality. I would rather change my type than to be with an SEE.

[BrainlessSquid]

Duality is just about compatibility. Sometimes you are compatible with your cat, it doesn't mean you have to date them.

[End]

I've met a lot of Duals, both male and female, and I get along with all of them seamlessly. I've slept with a couple of the females; the sex was very good but not the absolute greatest.* I found that the two ESIs I slept with were both selfish. Maybe that's Aggression, or bad previous partners, or maybe they didn't have their heads on straight. I don't know and I don't care. Selfishness gets you the "Try again with someone else" card.

I haven't yet met a female Dual with whom we agreed to form a long-term, sexual partnership. I have an ESI interior decorator, and we both kind of agreed (by default? By everyday repeated choices?) to have a long term relationship, but it's not sexual.

I'm still looking for an ESI who wants me as much as I want her, in the same ways, for the same reasons.

*Absolute greatest sex was with the two LSI females I dated. (They were identical in bed. Think about that when you are doubting the validity of Socionics.) Unfortunately, great sex didn't entirely make up for the rest of the relationship's qualities.

You already know what I'm going to say but because it's so important I'll say it anyway. Attachment. You need to fix that first and foremost if you ever want to enjoy a truly loving and fulfilling relationship.

There are other factors as well of course. You could be a fully healthy, integrated, High-Status Alpha, etc. LIE male but if you neglect other factors ya might still swing and miss. Yet once again I must emphasize the primacy of attaining secure attachment and all it entails. For instance, if you don't already have a network of close same sex friends you're probably not securely attached (or at least, that's the next step you need to complete before you try to find a partner).

Also, good on you to recognize that irrational selfishness is a huge red flag that, if you bring it up and they refuse to address it, is grounds for an immediate break-up. You likely dodged a hell of a bullet by dipping out when you did. When a girl's response to the question of "What do you bring to the table in this relationship?" is some version of "I am the table!" you bounce. As one comedian eloquently put it in regards to such women (hell people in general let's be honest): "Something is wrong with you, and I ain't got time to fix it!"

Just my opinions:
- duality has to be taken not religiously. First, because sociotypes describe people, but aren't real things. Second, every human being has is peculiar preference and characteristics, which create attraction or repulsion to other and are not described by theory (being personal). For exemple, I prefer ESIs (ESI-Se) to SEEs because they are more loyal, and loyalty is a essential value to me.
- It is possible to encounter people belonging to the same type but with very different behavior and values due to the different place they live. I always thoguth not liking the kind of SEE of my Town, but when I moved to other places I found different SEEs (and other types in general);
- Duality is better experienced when you are older (23+ yo). As a teen people doesn't even know theirselves. I changed a lot my perception about SEEs

My idea is that duality is something more visceral and "natural" (in a feral sense), rather than perfect or good (it could be good, but it's not a rule). I perceive that SEE match perfecly my worst sexual perversions and the need to have someone strong who takes decisions. Yet, they are too much unstable to make a family with. ESI makes me feel more special, and I have a strong Fi need.

Anyway, I experienced that SEE and ESI-Se girls are a lot attracted by me even if I don't even care about them. Idk if they behave like this with everyone or it's really some kind of duality (or activity) attraction.

That's also handily explained with attachment theory. See, you end up with two separate dating pools once you understand and apply it. You got the secure people, and the insecure people. Both of them scare the shit out of the other and they will bounce/ghost each other 9 times out of 10 if they meet and start dating rather quickly.

However, it's also a sliding scale. On the extreme end attachment problems become full-blown personality disorders that we've all learned to fear. Narcissists, sociopaths, histrionics, bipolars, etc. Yet on the more day to day encounter it's the man who keeps everyone at arms length (especially the women in his life). It's that girl who's just a bit too eager to please and is constantly chasing validation (especially from the men in her life). It's the majority of people in the Modern Western World living lives of quite desperation and crushing loneliness doubting the possibility of ever being able to find true love.

Also, sexual attraction is a complex subject and personality types are only a small part of it. SEE and ESI's being attracted to you (in what I presume to be a "short term" dating atmosphere) has way more to do with your physical appearance and apparent social status than deeper potential connections where things like personality type would become a more major factor. If you look like Jason Momoa and drive a Ferrari you'll get insanely beautiful girls of all personality types throwing themselves at you sexually and doing everything they can to please you without you needing to do much of anything for them.

Most all of these women are horribly broken sadly but that's the majority of the dating market right now. There are more broken people than securely attached people ATM. Work on becoming one of the later first before trying your hand at dating again. A secure SEE is a wonderful partner. Hell any secure partner is wonderful but for the likes of us they're especially nice

I will never choose an SEE for anything even dooality. I would rather change my type than to be with an SEE.

Sounds like you had a rather bad experience with one. Sorry to hear that.

[FDG]

I've met a lot of Duals, both male and female, and I get along with all of them seamlessly. I've slept with a couple of the females; the sex was very good but not the absolute greatest.* I found that the two ESIs I slept with were both selfish. Maybe that's Aggression, or bad previous partners, or maybe they didn't have their heads on straight. I don't know and I don't care. Selfishness gets you the "Try again with someone else" card.

I haven't yet met a female Dual with whom we agreed to form a long-term, sexual partnership. I have an ESI interior decorator, and we both kind of agreed (by default? By everyday repeated choices?) to have a long term relationship, but it's not sexual.

I'm still looking for an ESI who wants me as much as I want her, in the same ways, for the same reasons.

*Absolute greatest sex was with the two LSI females I dated. (They were identical in bed. Think about that when you are doubting the validity of Socionics.) Unfortunately, great sex didn't entirely make up for the rest of the relationship's qualities.

I think ESIs have a lot more hip mobility than LSIs but they require higher physical standards. If for some reason you have a period of your life when you are not fit they lose interest. They'll never say it openly but they requie you to be physically quite fit.
ESIs can also more easily become obsessed and thst can be good.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think duality happens when people don't know anything about socionics and are naive to it. Or at the least aren't thinking about it all, and just being with somebody they can be as naturally themselves as possible (which often seems 'too boring' at first like the description states)

My parents were a happily married dual couple for years until my dad passed away and never knew what socionics even was. I only tried teaching my mom about socionics after my dad died- but quickly stopped cuz it was too cringe and I don't want to give my mom brain aids. ((even if I do supervise her.))

If they studied socionics, most likely they'd be like 'ehh I actually hate this person. I want to read Oprah magazine instead' or something... you know? Because that's what socionics encourages people to do. It's like The First on Buffy lol.

The neurotic mental twists socionics encourages the brain to has pollutes and backwards people. Like say you're a sexual sub, socionics most likely makes you feel guilty for being that- so you wont' attract a proper aggressor anyway even though naturally you belong with an 'aggressor' so you wind up being in some unhappy thing with a caregiver that doesn't last. Yet if you didn't study something or hung around people who tried to make you feel bad for who you are and was just a natural victim- you would naturally attract an aggressor. Yet so much of society is about self-hating yourself to death where nobody could ever love you.

If you didn't know you were a ILI and that person was a SEE... it would most likely be different imnsho, and it's also possible you might have their type wrong but I don't know- socionics is still real but there's a grand objectivity to it, that only works with other people's eyes, narcistically diagonising anything doesn't work.

Like I don't want to pick on the guy but adam strange's obsession with 'esi' over the years and he's never found an esi dual- but if he stopped thinking about esi and was just natural LIE (if he was that) it would happen so organically anyway. I myself actually dated and had the best fun with SLE but as soon as I started thinking 'ooh I'm an IEI and they are a SLE' of course shit hit the fan.

I guess it's like the sun. Let it heal you and give you vitamin D and nourish the planet, but don't let it blind you or give you skin cancer either. Love or hate the dude, his name was apt I suppose. Solcionics.

[dextrous]

I've met with my dual once and I only knew it after I had already rejected him. I am on the lookout for my dual but we tend to be in completely different spaces and rarely ever meet. I've just accepted to stop trying to find them and leave it to happenstance. I've tried to settle for an activator but I've grown to hate ESI.

[Mairon]

If you look like Jason Momoa

LOL this killed me. My best friend years ago said I look like him. Anyway, it's just that it seems that they like me even if I'm constantly alone and like a zombie. All girls in my life said I'm beautiful but not likeable anyway because I'm too dead inside. All of them but ESI and most of all SEEs. The latter don't give a fux and even says that they find this characteristic very sexy. I remember that one SEE girl said that to her I looked very strong because I kept being detatched, like it was a manifestation of power, indirectly. This made me laugh, because I just fear to talk to people LOL, but it was an interesting consideration.

A secure SEE is a wonderful partner. Hell any secure partner is wonderful but for the likes of us they're especially nice




Sounds like you had a rather bad experience with one. Sorry to hear that.

Oh, maybe I expressed poorly my point. It's not that I had bad experience with them. I find myself very well with SEEs, both friends and girls I flirted with, but the major part of them doesn't want to live a 'quiet' life. I mean, most of them get annoyed very easily and searches for the next experience. I don't criticize the hypersexuality of most of them (at least, in Italy all SEEs do sex with every human being they find, damn), but it prevents me from trusting them. I hope to find a loyal and secure SEE partner, but it's just very hard.