Hahaha, man that made me laugh. On some level you have grasped how these types think and speak. To those who oppose them, take note of this.Originally Posted by sbbds
Nothing you say or do will satisfy them once they've labeled you as "them". Rationality? Reason? Truth? Justice? All vile concepts founded upon "White Supremacy" or "The Patriarchy". God I wish I was kidding here...
I've said that myself many a time. Yes, it is the "final" answer. However, that answer can backfire hard. Soren Kirkegaard put it best: "The tyrant dies, his rule ends. The Martyr dies, his rule begins"
The "final" answer might not turn out the way you'd think. Just putting that thought out there. Kill all who defy you might work very well in the immediate sense, but, well, sin makes you an idiot long term and thank almighty god for that.
By “grasped how these types think and speak”, you must be referring to my ability to form coherent sentences and to have a point.
God was not as kind towards you with this, apparently.
I don't know what kind of Dutch black guys my ex was talking about, but many Dutch black kids (and other kids just as well) have black American gangsta rappers for role models and try to imitate such personas ;-)
But it is true: presentation matters, and within presentation vibe is the most important thing. Over here in Holland discrimination is an even bigger problem for people of Northern-African descent (in Holland mostly Moroccan), than for people of sub-Sahara African descent. I happen to have a nephew whose father is Algerian, and because of that has the physical appearance of a 'Moroccan', and he has a North-African name, which is a disadvantage when sending a letter of email when applying for a job. But he dresses like a typical middle class millennial, and more importantly: despite the color of his skin and his curly hair, he vibes as a common middle class white Dutch guy of his generation, his innate cultural attitudes are completely 'white' (if there is such a thing, because there are many different subcultural groups among white people, and many of these groups practice social exclusion towards each other just as well!). He is what is often called a bounty bar: brown on the outside, white on the inside. And thus get access to 'white' networks. Networks that stay closed to people of different skin colors and cultural attitudes.
Another example: I am a white guy, was born in what was at the time one of the lowest social class neighborhoods of Amsterdam (which has gentrified since then). Like many white people from labor-class backgrounds I have worked my way up, both economically as well as culturally (the latter does more often than not not keep up with the first one). Despite all my efforts, the innate labor-class cultural attitudes I acquired when I was a kid, such as my commoner Amsterdam accent, are to some extent still there, and I know for a fact that those cultural attitudes prevent me access to certain white networks higher up the social ladder. When I meet people of other social backgrounds, I often notice I am quickly reduced to this stereotype of a Amsterdam commoner, and all the qualities I have acquired that are atypical for an Amsterdam commoner are simply ignored. I could wear the right kind of suits and shoes, get myself the proper haircut, and still will be singled out because I carry subcultural attitudes with me that are deemed incompatible with theirs. Does it bother me? It does, but I have come to the understanding that this is how life is. Get over it and make the most of it. (This is why I liked visiting the US: over there, liberal intellectuals cannot hear my commoner accent, and I am much easier accepted into their networks. Possibly also because I am an exotic European specimen, but nonetheless).
One thing we need to realize is that these mechanisms are very difficult to overcome, for many reasons. One of the most important reasons is explained by the sociological concept of social mobility. We need to realize that chances for intra-generational social mobility are, by definition, lower than inter-generational mobility. You might not climb more than one social stratum higher than what you were born in, but your kids might. Therefore it is best not to expect revolutionary changes from the current protests. Especially when you live in the US, because despite this ideal of the American Dream, the figures simply prove that chances for social mobility in the US are among the lowest in the western world.
Last edited by consentingadult; 06-16-2020 at 02:00 PM.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
For some perspective
Dave Chappelle 8:46
The title of the special is in reference to Derek Chauvin's knee on George Floyd's neck for a total of 8 minutes and 46 seconds
.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-16-2020 at 01:55 PM.
Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, Book 1, Chapter 10Nevertheless, ambitious men will succeed in creating parties, since it is difficult to eject a person from authority upon the mere ground that this place is coveted by others.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I love Humanity for all it’s faults!
I love black people and I was talking to a black guy when I was dating for weeks on the phone. I was hoping he would take the initiative and ask me out on a real date (face to face) but he didn’t and I found my husband shortly after.
I think we would have gotten on well. He was LSE
Don’t know why he took so long I figured he was in no rush maybe because of other reasons??? I’ll never know the possibility anyway
Yeah I love black people and I have said this here before which I got slammed for. They have been placed at a real financial disadvantage in this country
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Look at my post count and how many years I’ve done this and which pros have typed me
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Interracial marriages can be challenging for the participants. Not for any interpersonal reasons between the partners, but because we swim in an ocean of racism and other people are going to be critical of your choices.
Seriously go learn the functions
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
most legendary quote of the forum
Was he an SEE lol
Correction
Many black people are SEE meaning you can find and date SEE among black people. It’s the culture of slavery in America. The slave drivers picked from strong able body men and women not scrawnier weak and fragile so it resulted in many SEE among our black culture. I hate to say that but it’s fact
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ahh, so you're saying SEEs make good slaves and black people are slaves?
Correction
Many black people are SEE meaning you can find and date SEE among black people. It’s the culture of slavery in America. The slave drivers picked from strong able body men and women not scrawnier weak and fragile so it resulted in many SEE among our black culture. I hate to say that but it’s fact
Twisting my words as to get a rise out of me doesn’t work on me
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Lol how did I twist your words that is exactly what you said?
The thread was already derailed you tard , I was very clearly being facetious. Sorry you couldn't decipher that.
Why do you continue to call people names when you don’t know them just because they disagree or correct you. You have abandoned issues and your attachment style maybe direction into you seeking some therapy
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oop just got diagnosed.
I have securely attached style
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I didn't ask. But I'm just wondering why you think it is ok for you to come in here and diagnose me with shit over the internet - let's be honest you barely know anything about me besides what I choose to post on this forum
Ah the old "I'm gonna call throw out a claim and say I don't want to pursue this further". I'm not the coward here lol.
@ashlesha
Systemic racism refers to the way some now-old administrative structures for allocating resources in an area disadvantage some neighbourhoods more than others, and some groups more than others. It is termed systemic in part because it is impersonal, not "in your face".
Video using the example of 'red-lining' cities during urban planning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHIQIO_bdQ
In a nutshell, the city was subdivided into neighbourhoods designated more or less "good" (desirable to live in, to be invested in, to be preserved, etc.). This was done in the 1960s, if memory serves, and in a way closely correlated with the percentage of black residents. (I currently do not have info about the effects of such policies on others POCs.) A neighbourhood designated "good" had advantages: for e.g. a banker would check your address and use the 'quality' of your neighbourhood to decide whether to offer you a mortgage and at what rate. "Bad" neighbourhoods got fewer mortgages overall, and at worse rates, which residents spent longer repaying. Other disparities involve good distribution of public transport stops (e.g.: buses), grocery stores, and in one memorable example whether to build a highway across your neighbourhood.
The highway split that community in two and vastly decreased their quality of life (noise pollution, air pollution, harder to visit neighbours, kids might get run over). Obviously fewer people wanted to move next to a highway, which over time decreased property values. May also have consequences like fewer stops for public transports -> spend more time commuting/harder to get to job -> worse quality of life -> less time to argue with local admin about getting a better bus stop installed -> etc.
Some such disadvantages are also seen in rural vs urban areas, but that tends to not be called "systemic racism" because the phenomenon of cities sucking up resources and farmers/small towns being left to fend for themselves due to being far from, say, a big financial centre is seen as a separate dynamic with separate causes, even if the effects may look similar.
Reason is a whore.
If you are interested in what BLM truly stands for, and are willing to look past the emotion-baiting name of the movement: follow the money.
Millions are being donated to BLM. Look into who, or what, receives the brunt of the money. There you will find the god they worship.
I'm definitely convinced systemic racism exists. I've read enough on the topic. I don't believe you can have the sorts of inequities we have in this society without it being structural. I think the people who are least interested in acknowledging this tend to be the elites on the right. They try to pretend it isn't real because if it were real it would mean they'd have to change their worldview and their stories justifying their wealth and power to themselves. Elites on the left tend to pay it lip service often, but may now be persuaded to do a little more like throw some money at things and change some public symbols, but I think they know deep down that their class (elites) perpetuate inequity in the world more than any other, that their class has disproportionate sway upon the lives of billions of people (and it's not right). That truth is one they don't want the discussion to get too close to.
I aim this not merely at you (replied mainly because you were the last poster), but everyone in this thread. At this time in my humble opinion, not just in the USA, but all across the western nations something similar in pattern to the Russian revolution of 1917 is happening. If one is intuitive, the similarities will be clearly apparent:
The Russian revolution: https://youtu.be/cV9G1QUIm7w I sincerely hope we learn from history & do not repeat it, even if human history is cyclical in nature. The road to hell is paved by good intentions, we should remember this and try to look at the situation in a more detached and sober way.
This thread imo also needs this reminder:
Last edited by SGF; 06-16-2020 at 09:33 PM.
That video starts out with the massive suffering of the Russian people. It's not that they had a good thing and lost it. It's not that they paved a road to hell. It's that they were already in hell. I know less about other countries, but a lot of people in the US are in hell right now. Revolutions happen because the situation has become intolerable. The failings of the US system are that our supposed democracy is currently a plutocracy. The people are not sufficiently represented by their own government. We vote for corporations and their interests or wealthy people and their interests. They say they will throw us a bone or two but it is mainly all about them. I don't know what will happen but if the suffering of the people reaches too high a pitch the rest of the chaos to follow is inevitable. It's simply a sequence in a chain. I don't know if I believe violent revolutions will happen or not, but if they do, such things happen when a point is reached in which people just can't take it anymore. There's no way to prevent it other than fix the system before it comes to that. If a violent revolution occurs the system has already failed the people. That's what pushed them to revolution. Their alternative? Let that system continue to destroy them. They have nothing left to do but fight.
Last edited by marooned; 06-16-2020 at 10:02 PM.
You are right, Russia was no sunshine and roses, however true hell really only came after the revolution. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn is a novelist who survived the humanity crushing system that came after the revolution, if you want to know and feel what it was like I recommend his books, they are quite good: https://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipe.../dp/1843430851
You are also right about there being many problems with the USA and the west in general, similarly to Russia back then.. however it can get much worse. As far as I know the US is a republic and republics are not democracies. The US is merely democratic aka you hold elections. A real democracy is what one would call a situation wherewhere the majority decides and the minorities have to accept the decisions. Democracies tend to not last if applied on a large scale, mainly would work for small settlements, like a village. They devolve into tyranny.. because ppl will eventually vote to take away the rights of the minorities. You see what secures your rights is force or power, without the will and power to enforce and defend your rights, you can lose them. You and I as individuals, we are at the mercy of whoever wields power.
The corporations are a problem, I agree. They siphon off skilled human resources from less developed nations through immigration, benefit from outsourcing, try to flood the labor market with unskilled labor so they can pay less to workers and have conned the environmentalist movement among many other moves such as spending resources to dictate politics, buy off the media, you name it... whatever increases short term profit at the long term expense of everything else it seems. To a corporate capitalist everything is a commodity.
How can you say that. They were out in the streets marching for bread. They didn't even have enough to eat. There was nothing else they could do. They were powerless and dying, and the only option left was to fight. And when the political systems that followed also failed the people they revolted again. Since they currently do have a democratic system in place, it seems this upheaval has at least improved the situation since 1917. I don't really have firm views on different systems, other than my general point that when the powers that be fail the people, revolution is inevitable. Those powers would be wise to not push people to the extremes of desperation for the sake of their own selfishness.
Thats a cool illustration - which further illustrates still, nobody has refuted the central point; that systemic racism exists within the police force across the US, supported by statistical data (meaning intentionally going out of their way to kill/lynch black people, the accusation of BLM ).I aim this not merely at you (replied mainly because you were the last poster), but everyone in this thread. At this time in my humble opinion, not just in the USA, but all across the western nations something similar in pattern to the Russian revolution of 1917 is happening. If one is intuitive, the similarities will be clearly apparent:
The Russian revolution: https://youtu.be/cV9G1QUIm7w I sincerely hope we learn from history & do not repeat it, even if human history is cyclical in nature. The road to hell is paved by good intentions, we should remember this and try to look at the situation in a more detached and sober way.
This thread imo also needs this reminder:
In a nutshell,
in response people are arguing that
1. systemic racism (in general by everyone) is real and affects everyone and that
2. its ok to destroy things because of this systemic racism, since we need to let things out and let nature take its course
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-17-2020 at 12:09 AM.
"Though communism has killed huge numbers of people intentionally, even more of its victims have died from starvation as a result of its cruel projects of social engineering." - Professor Stephen Kotkin (WSJ)
The overall range of deaths spans from 42,870,000 to 161,990,000 killed, with 100 million the most commonly cited figure. Something to think about.
From my observations over the years I concluded that the relations between political factions in the west have deteriorated severely. A civil war-like situation isn't as far fetched as it may sound at first. Many people seem to be out there acting on emotions that have reached a boiling point.
I'm not American so I don't know the situation... but from the outside looking in (and this is not just my opinion) we seem kinda baffled as to how and why a known criminal has been turned into a "heroic martyr" that sparked an event that is spreading not only outside of the city it happened in, but throughout the west. To me it looks like the left in general just jumped on the opportunity to push a political agenda and the media is being used to whip ppl into a frenzy. I guess its election year in the US, but its spreading outside of it as well..
Destroying private and public property is not ok lol.
Last edited by SGF; 06-17-2020 at 05:17 AM.
You're exactly right. 100%.
Honestly, I think we as people have reached a point of madness, tossing all reason out the door (as I've alluded to in the past, we've hit the titanic and it's just sinking now). Its what happens when evil progresses in human nature.
As a nation, we're spiritually lost, with no meaning and purpose to strive for - I think deep down people feel this and want to jump onto something to fight for ... But when you can't see truth, you actually destroy the very thing you're fighting for (literally)
There's this quote,
“When everyone is right, nothing is wrong. When nothing is wrong, we will have no concept of Evil when it stares us in the face”
I can see this "no concept of evil" affecting everyone.... It's deeply disturbing
Quite the tragedy.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-17-2020 at 10:56 AM.
Just thought this needed repeating if there was confusion about people doing things only because of the media or due to amorality (?)
Some of the killed had a life of criminality (that makes them poor martyr figures, but not worthless humans, of course). But the toughest one for me personally was Tamir Rice because my son was not much older and in the video he moved in the same way. The way little boys run.
It’s because of the particularly shockingly brutal was he was killed, which was caught on video.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100...ath-video.html
Skip to 1:30 (or 4:00, if you’re short on time). I’m not American either and I thought he was just shot with a gun, but no, the reality was far more disturbing and inhuman.
I think George Floyd evoked a stronger outrage in large part because the cops couldn't say they were scared. Even with Tamir Rice, it could be excused because they thought he had a gun. (If you're unfamiliar with that story, he had a toy gun.) With Floyd, it obviously wasn't panic or anything and I think the casual nature of the lackadaisical killing on the video really popped the public.
The thorough video coverage of George Floyd’s death was also easier to viscerally experience, and spread virally over social media compared to that case (social media is also bigger now and is constantly growing, and people have been at home and able to watch). Out of sight, out of mind.
Right now, people have nothing better to do than to watch.
Edit: Not to mention the economic conditions right now with the coronavirus, and how already disadvantaged people will be particularly affected, and a disproportionate amount of black people in America are already living in poverty (due to the same systemic racism).
The US had basically fully primed itself for riots like this to occur.
Last edited by sbbds; 06-17-2020 at 01:02 PM.
It was mostly an observation of how humans deal with conflict when you've exhausted all other options - not saying its the best option in all cases lolI've said that myself many a time. Yes, it is the "final" answer. However, that answer can backfire hard. Soren Kirkegaard put it best: "The tyrant dies, his rule ends. The Martyr dies, his rule begins"
The "final" answer might not turn out the way you'd think. Just putting that thought out there. Kill all who defy you might work very well in the immediate sense, but, well, sin makes you an idiot long term and thank almighty god for that
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