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Thread: Se PoLR of INFjs and INTjs

  1. #401

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    I walked past a lady in the rain while I was holding an umbrella. I didn't even think to offer help til I got in the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I walked past a lady in the rain while I was holding an umbrella. I didn't even think to offer help til I got in the car.
    @Lord Pixel, your Duals obviously need to be able to take care of themselves.

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    9 days out of ten my Se is 0, and one day I want to actually kill someone because of something they did or said, I don't ever have the balls to do it, and I pray I never do, but there's no inbetween.

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    YeS so insecure about color style patterns and all that jazz. I actually hate it so much since it stresses me out to no end. I just want something perfect to come along lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Typically, INXjs see the forest but can't remember a single tree. From an information-acquisition perspective, most realize that they regularly miss or ignore concrete facts that can render their often-idealized strategies totally useless. This tends to make them rather hesitant in starting an endeavour. They are impressionistic painters who have difficulty with realism so many overcompensate by becoming annoying perfectionists.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Let’s just say, it’s the reason I know I’m INFj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    I know all about that. I'm extremely sensitive about being dominated or bossed around. I absolutely cannot stand being around domineering or bossy people. They make me feel extremely uncomfortable. I guess because they force me to have to look at a part of myself that I cannot stand to look at (the part of myself that I feel is very submissive). It makes me feel weak, submissive, etc. I always try my best to not boss others around, because I know I can't stand it when others do that to me.

    I also really dislike when people dismiss me or shut me down for having the feelings I have (like your SLE boss did to you).


    I don't think I would've felt quite as good.
    Which type LIKES being dominated? Not even SEE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Question Se polr in LII and EII

    How does it manifest ?

    Can you give me examples from daily life?

    Does hatred of scenes of blood, violence, conflicts and wars mean that someone is Se polr ?

    Thank you

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    I'm going to be very general, but I know a lot of LII and EII and I think it's one of the types where the function is most obvious

    The function Si indicates in this case a search for comfort and optimal healt conditions, being very often unsure if he already has reached it or not (because it is hard for him to understand when real comfort is met/ low dimensionality of Si).

    The type is unable to impose himself (Se PolR) and does not respond to the manifestations of control of others, preferring to flee from them and seek relaxation. They may be afraid of disease even when they are perfectly healthy. They have a lot of anxiety about their general health.

    When they drive they tend to be anxious and go very slow.

    In the case of EIIs, many of them also search a job related to Si (for example, as a safety-on-work agent, idk how it is called). Attention to the safety of oneself and loved ones also becomes the search for safety for everyone.

    Both types looks always very calm. They seem good in hiding their fears in thess matters, until they state it.

    For your question about "violence", an EII friend of mine says he doesn't like when violence and gore are not "motivated" or are just useless in the context of the media he is watching.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonmoony View Post
    How does it manifest ?

    Can you give me examples from daily life?

    Does hatred of scenes of blood, violence, conflicts and wars mean that someone is Se polr ?

    Thank you
    Many people can hate those things so the example is bad. Also, Se polr does not necessarily translate into specifics like that.

    LIIs often prefer to have a strategy that minimizes physical engagement. Things should be clean and smooth and involve mostly intellectual work. However, it has to be a pragmatic approach.

    Se polr can be used directly though. It's not like a physical presence is completely foreign to them but it can seem stiff and unadapted.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Many people can hate those things so the example is bad. Also, Se polr does not necessarily translate into specifics like that.

    LIIs often prefer to have a strategy that minimizes physical engagement. Things should be clean and smooth and involve mostly intellectual work. However, it has to be a pragmatic approach.

    Se polr can be used directly though. It's not like a physical presence is completely foreign to them but it can seem stiff and unadapted.
    Isn't Si even more physical than Se though? Since Si is all "my sensory pleasures" and Se is just all get in, get out, finish the job.

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    It manifests throughout a perception that one must avoid a direct confrontation since they are unaware about their own boundary when it comes to the external field of sensory. In other words, they don't know how, out of the will, to control a conflicting situation whereas they have to put an act as an assertive person to deal with the current situation. This is tiring for them and they prefer to not be in this form of dire circumstance at all because of their lack of ability to assert themselves in front of the opposition. And of course, this can be improved but "awkwardly" instead.

    As for the example, I noticed this in my close friend (she is an LII). She has a likelihood to avoid herself being under dire circumstances, is very avoidant overall, and when she is being pressured, she prefers to reluctantly embraces this to settle the feud so she can live in peace instead. She also doesn't like it when people are against her since it means that her agreeable trait will be vanished (despite deep down, she is an egocentric person) instead. She also doesn't want to have a fight against anyone and begs to differ for regaining control by using her analytical mind.

    No.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

  13. #413
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    Isn't Si even more physical than Se though? Since Si is all "my sensory pleasures" and
    Both Si and Se can be about pleasures. But Se does it by engaging fully with the object. Si senses everything on the inside more or less detached from the object. In an impressionistic way. I wouldnt call Si physical, that's Se imo.

    Se is just all get in, get out, finish the job.
    Sounds like Se creative maybe. But maybe not in Se bases. Se (base) is engagement in the physical world/environment just for the sake of it. Like this SEE I used to know who liked windsurfing and motorbikes and going clubbing many days a'week.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Sounds like Se creative maybe. But maybe not in Se bases. Se (base) is engagement in the physical world/environment just for the sake of it. Like this SEE I used to know who liked windsurfing and motorbikes and going clubbing many days a'week.
    That sounds more physical in an athletic way than in a sensual way. Definitely possible to be hedonistic with, but motorbikes are hedonistic in a very different way than fancy dinners and fluffy pillows are. Sometimes I want to ride motorbikes and windsurf, but I couldn't care less about fluffy pillows and cheese platters and whatever (I also think cheese platters are gross anyway.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonmoony View Post

    Does hatred of scenes of blood, violence, conflicts and wars mean that someone is Se polr ?
    Few numbers from Talanov group:

    "He loves to hurt others; takes pleasure in seeing someone else's fear; physical sadism" (Left-to-right: ILE LII SEI ESE SLE LSI IEI EIE SEE ESI ILI LIE IEE EII SLI LSE)
    QSorZ-g-ndo.jpg

    "He likes to mock other people, has inclinations towards psychological sadism":
    9ZINDilXu9k.jpg

    As far as I understand, -0.93 std dev means that EIIs answered "yes" to questions related to sadism 60% less often that average respondent, so, it looks weak but somewhat reliable marker

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonmoony View Post
    Does hatred of scenes of blood, violence, conflicts and wars mean that someone is Se polr ?
    What??????

    Definition of Se:
    Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

    Manifestation of Se PoLR:
    Hatred of blood, violence, etc.????

    No. Just why???? Are Se valuers a bunch of rabid barbarians to you????


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bear View Post
    What??????

    Definition of Se:
    Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

    Manifestation of Se PoLR:
    Hatred of blood, violence, etc.????

    No. Just why???? Are Se valuers a bunch of rabid barbarians to you????
    Extraverted Sensing is the outward-oriented sensing: physical space, objective material qualities of objects, and physical control, material gain, ownership
    Se valuers have a greater interest in material gain and physical control, and violence and force is one of, but not exclusively, the way to attain this - force is, in principle, most often a tool used by Se types
    having Se in the superego can manifest as a disregarding for material gain, for the state of the surroundings and excessive negativism towards any use of direct force or pressure, including violence

    in the eyes of Si/Ne valuers, Se types can give the impression of brutes

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaecaedre View Post
    Extraverted Sensing is the outward-oriented sensing: physical space, objective material qualities of objects, and physical control, material gain, ownership
    Se valuers have a greater interest in material gain and physical control, and violence and force is one of, but not exclusively, the way to attain this - force is, in principle, most often a tool used by Se types
    having Se in the superego can manifest as a disregarding for material gain, for the state of the surroundings and excessive negativism towards any use of direct force or pressure, including violence

    in the eyes of Si/Ne valuers, Se types can give the impression of brutes
    No one asked you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bear View Post
    No one asked you.
    He his right, though
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    He his right, though
    As is my right to reply what I did.
    No one asked you either. Lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bear View Post
    As is my right to reply what I did.
    No one asked you either. Lol
    No one gives a shit. Don't need a permission to reply to people. Go cry to a moderator
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    No one gives a shit. Don't need a permission to reply to people. Go cry to a moderator
    You're petty as fuck. Get a life, dude.

    I don't want replies from either one of you, because I have had run ins with you both. So when I say "nobody asked you" it means fuck off and don't talk to me because we aren't on good terms. It's not about permission to post. Never was. It's about specific person A and B replying to me when I don't want them to talk to me, which is very much within my right to say. Get a clue.


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    And it is very much in my right to read your nonsense and correct you if I want to. Put me on ignore if you don't like it, or deal with it
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bear View Post
    You're petty as fuck. Get a life, dude.

    I don't want replies from either one of you, because I have had run ins with you both. So when I say "nobody asked you" it means fuck off and don't talk to me because we aren't on good terms. It's not about permission to post. Never was. It's about specific person A and B replying to me when I don't want them to talk to me, which is very much within my right to say. Get a clue.
    you can't expect people to abstain from correcting you, or even just discussing the veracity of what you post just because you don't like it
    besides, my post was directed not only to you, but to OP

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    here's how it is for me:

    - I have a very poor perception of reality. I do not memorize physical features or details at all. I often forget how people look and they become more an idea in my mind than a concrete physical manifestation.
    - I have problems executing specific tasks that require sophisticated control of my body, especially when they are repetitive
    - I do not care much about status or competition. I have a hard time really pushing myself, there's a certain limit to how far I can go. I don't see myself as ambitious, do not need to achieve goals, money is insignificant to me (I do like a challenge from time to time but I think any level of ambition is more accentuated Se for Creative subtypes in my case)
    - I react to threats in a very aggressive way, or not at all. I never seem to find the appropriate level of force for a situation. (I think it's similar with EII, an example would be you go through the city at night, someone threatens you, and the willingness to get confrontational becomes very strong or you just let someone walk all over you). It's one of the reasons why I train a lot, this way people leave you alone and you don't become a target/they choose weaker victims.
    - the comment about Se valuing types being perceived as brutes is somewhat true. I tend to perceive Se types as somewhat animalistic with poor impulse control and weird sexual fetishes.
    - I generally hate it when people impose themselves on me, tell me how to do things without me asking them. I do not like pressure at all
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    i always get mistaken as being the youngest sibling, when i am not :(
    Quote Originally Posted by blaecaedre View Post
    Extraverted Sensing is the outward-oriented sensing: physical space, objective material qualities of objects, and physical control, material gain, ownership
    Se valuers have a greater interest in material gain and physical control, and violence and force is one of, but not exclusively, the way to attain this - force is, in principle, most often a tool used by Se types
    having Se in the superego can manifest as a disregarding for material gain, for the state of the surroundings and excessive negativism towards any use of direct force or pressure, including violence

    in the eyes of Si/Ne valuers, Se types can give the impression of brutes :)
    the OC (@Pink Bear) alludes to disagreeing that xII-s can't handle violence, as a whole. personally, i agree with them. all types can evolve to having greater management or tolerance for/of their PoLR function (i.e when it is being "hit")

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb brb bb View Post
    i always get mistaken as being the youngest sibling, when i am not


    the OC (@Pink Bear) alludes to disagreeing that xII-s can't handle violence, as a whole. personally, i agree with them. all types can evolve to having greater management or tolerance for/of their PoLR function (i.e when it is being "hit")
    My point was it's NTR. People who are HSP, people who have PTSD, all kinds of people are sensitive to violence. Personally, I can't stomach gore etc because I over empathize, but I'm also HSP. Is someone going to tell me that empathy relates to Se? Don't think so.


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    Quote Originally Posted by blaecaedre View Post
    you can't expect people to abstain from correcting you, or even just discussing the veracity of what you post just because you don't like it
    besides, my post was directed not only to you, but to OP
    Yes, you can. When you say "stop quoting/talking to me, leave me alone" etc. and someone does it anyway, it becomes harassment. I'm dealing with enough BS without the petty conflicts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    And it is very much in my right to read your nonsense and correct you if I want to. Put me on ignore if you don't like it, or deal with it
    Stop talking to me, trying to provoke me, etc. I do not exist to you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bear View Post
    Stop talking to me, trying to provoke me, etc. I do not exist to you.
    Seek therapy. The only thing I wrote is "he is right, though" and you continue to get a meltdown every time someone remotely points out that you could be wrong like a beta princess. You are not democratic, you do not act based on factual information, nothing about you is gamma. I wrote four words about how blaecaedre's descrption of Se is accurate and you're losing it again

    How is a fucking description of what extroverted sensing is harrasment? For all the bullshit talk you give here about how 'strong' you are, you are easily triggered by nothing
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowerthan View Post
    Just cut it out.
    I literally just wrote "He his right, though", four words on a post that describes Se. she keeps insisting that I don't engage with her yet her massive ego can't let it slide and has to comment "No one asked you either. Lol". I come here to discuss socionics, blaecaedre makes a post about the theory and I get a warning when I don't behave like a little bitch when someone has a power trip. yeah that's bullshit but whatever.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    regarding Se and Gore. I can look at a very graphic things that cointain a lot of violence but it usually leaves me indifferent. I don't need to actively search for it, though. it's more of a neutral observation. it might be type related but probably not. when you're a doctor and you are going to do a surgery on a person that had an accident you're going to be confronted with drastic images. it's probably more about getting used to it. I would worry more about doing the surgery and messing something up out of clumsiness, but that's also probably something that can be trained (maybe not if you're going to do that over a long period of time, though). I do have to say that working in the health care industry has never even remotely interested me, despite the fact that I know a decent amount about health topics, but it's more about preventing to go to a doctor in the first place
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

  33. #433

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb brb bb View Post
    i always get mistaken as being the youngest sibling, when i am not


    the OC (@Pink Bear) alludes to disagreeing that xII-s can't handle violence, as a whole. personally, i agree with them. all types can evolve to having greater management or tolerance for/of their PoLR function (i.e when it is being "hit")
    as a whole, Ne types handle it the worst and react the most aversely to it. there are always exceptions, people are much more complex than a few functions and dichotomies

    >all types can evolve to having greater management or tolerance for/of their PoLR function
    certainly, if a Ne type has an occupation related to e.g. martial arts, the military, or another situation where expert physical control of something is required, then they will train their Se - but it is difficult to make the superego functions average and acceptable, and the deficiency will usually be apparent when you are with someone who has them in their ego; my EIE mother, an intelligent, highly academically educated person who works with academic articles every day, still, in my eyes, betrays basic problems with logical thinking when i talk to her, and i am considerably less intelligent than her

    of course, there are also people who, from birth, probably just have a less expressed type - i.e. are more balanced individuals. maybe people who almost dont even have a type exist? im not sure

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    What happened to the thread?

    Why is it in another thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by two View Post
    I notice they don't size up people as much as I do
    size me up, senpai


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bear View Post
    size me up, senpai
    Five-foot two, eyes of blue.

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    I think low Se in extremes is when you completely let reality run its course without any intervention. Someone gets harrassed or is in danger in your proximity? You just stand there and observe, or you remove yourself from the situation. This can be observed in IEI and ILI too when they are really deep into their intuition. The opposite is an LSE for example that fights any kind of injustice.

    Low Se is also an acceptance to getting taken advantage of without resistance. People with weak Se are easily intimidated by pressure.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I think low Se in extremes is when you completely let reality run its course without any intervention. Someone gets harrassed or is in danger in your proximity? You just stand there and observe, or you remove yourself from the situation. This can be observed in IEI and ILI too when they are really deep into their intuition. The opposite is an LSE for example that fights any kind of injustice.

    Low Se is also an acceptance to getting taken advantage of without resistance. People with weak Se are easily intimidated by pressure.
    Sounds like a species that would be extinct.

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    I think Se PolR, especially N and H subs, avoid these kinds of situations by not acting with reality at all. Like only doing an office job and then going home to stay at their apartment for the rest of day. There's also an inabillity to organize things so they don't make vacations abroad for example. Also have poor motoric and practical, hands-on skills, can't dance.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    Sounds like a species that would be extinct.
    This is why anytime someone thinks they have the worst PoLR, I'm like, think again buddy it gets worse.

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