David Cameron and Gordon Brown

[Exodus]

Cameron is all about and even a bit of dual-seeking in his "a simple question: yes or no".

Actually, I would see this as evidence of the use of Se, as much as or more than Ti.

[Ezra]

I didn't know what current events those guys were referring to, so I couldn't really judge the interaction very well. The only obvious thing to me was Cameron's Fe and Brown's lack of it.

Exactly.

One anomaly is SG's typing of Cameron. How can two reasonably competent socionists come to two so radically different typings of a famous person? How can Expat suggest ENFj and SG suggest ISTp? That doesn't make sense -- not even if you happen to think that Expat is a much better socionist than SG (or the other way around).

Well, Fe is blatently evident; it is clearly used and valued by Cameron, so Ganin is wrong in my eyes. I don't know where the fuck he gets SLI from. Most fundamentally, where's the Fe PoLR? See how he raises the crowd? And IP > EJ? His mannerisms reveal practically the opposite. The tone of his voice says Se valuing to me, even if he's perhaps inept in Se, so Se HA would not be out of the question. Ne/Si would. And if you listen to any of his speeches, you'll see that his Ni shines through in his horrid use of pure rhetoric.

At least a slight problem is Brown's type, but here the two socionists seem to agree. Still, why would an INTp ever want, or be able to, become Prime Minister? Why doesn't he look like a typical INTp? (Well, that question may not have an answer ...)

This is the kind of thing an MBTT-plagued person would say. When we look at socionics, we look at functions. If you want stereotypical jobs and careers, you're looking in the wrong place. MBTT will work more in your favour in this case.

Actually, I would see this as evidence of the use of Se, as much as or more than Ti.

I agree.

[Expat]

Right, I also agree; after all Cameron wasn't really interested, we may assume, in getting an answer from Brown. So yes, it was more Se than Ti in the context.

[Phaedrus]

This is the kind of thing an MBTT-plagued person would say.

Maybe, but that is totally irrelevant here. This is the kind of thing socionists like Filatova, Stratiyevskaya, Lytov ... have in fact said.

When we look at socionics, we look at functions. If you want stereotypical jobs and careers, you're looking in the wrong place. MBTT will work more in your favour in this case.

You are so incredibly wrong and stupid that I want to puke at it. CHECK THE TYPE DESCRIPTIONS -- the SOCIONIC ones! Don't you have eyes to read with, Mr Mole?

[Olga]

It would be a good idea to have a poll in order to see what types the majority of people choose for Cameron and Brown. It is better not to compare socionists on who is better at typing. Everyone can do mistakes from time to time. It is good though when the typing is close. If the majority thinks that Cameron is ENFJ, then this is likely to be the case.
My husband LII thinks that Cameron is sooo stupid, that he can not be logical. But he is a rational type, so he is judging and judging suggests rational functions at work. Judging of Cameron is based on facts and emotions. Mainly he plays on people's feelings, so he is an ehtical type. And this is very different to Brown, who sticks to logics.

I can see where Sg went wrong. He thinks that Si is too strong. He does not know ENFJs it looks like to me. Their painful Si makes them pay a lot of attention to the way they look and generally tidyness and accuracy.

I am not sure about Brown, I thought Brown could be an ENTJ or ESTJ?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Here's my two cents for what it's worth. I think Brown's type is easier to see because he's not much of an actor, he seems pretty much who he is to me. Cameron strikes me as being a very good actor so it is difficult for me to ascertain wether he really means what he says or does. It's difficult to tell when the acting stops. Wether acting is a quality more common in Fe types idk, I suppose all types can act which makes it more difficult I think. But then from what we see it does look like lots of Fe and it does look like a supervisory relation with the two and I guess ENFj's can also be called 'the actor'

[implied]

Here's my two cents for what it's worth. I think Brown's type is easier to see because he's not much of an actor, he seems pretty much who he is to me. Cameron strikes me as being a very good actor so it is difficult for me to ascertain wether he really means what he says or does. It's difficult to tell when the acting stops. Wether acting is a quality more common in Fe types idk, I suppose all types can act which makes it more difficult I think. But then from what we see it does look like lots of Fe and it does look like a supervisory relation with the two and I guess ENFj's can also be called 'the actor'

fwiw, i've read that the "best" actors are typically ENFjs and ESFps. seems like a lot of people (mmh, was it meged & ovcharov?) say this of ENTps, too. usually when i find someone who i can't type based on not being able to tell where the acting ends and the "real" personality really is, i always want to default to one of these types, hah.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

fwiw, i've read that the "best" actors are typically ENFjs and ESFps. seems like a lot of people (mmh, was it meged & ovcharov?) say this of ENTps, too. usually when i find someone who i can't type based on not being able to tell where the acting ends and the "real" personality really is, i always want to default to one of these types, hah.

That was interesting. Thank you for that

[Creepy-Cyclops]

i think Blair is most certainly an E(N)Tj.

Possibly. What makes you think so?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I can't see it tbf, reaches out with dominant Fe from what I've seen of him.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

of Fe yes, but all EJs are like that. i mean in their conscious space the strongest functions are Fe and Te. for ENTJs, Fe happens to be "role", which they can very, very, very, very, very often use, especially Te-ENTJs.

Yeah but there's a big difference in role Fe and dominant Fe. I don't see so much Te in Blair. How could he switch off his dominant Te all day and fully use Fe like he does, if he is an ENTj like you say. Is it not easier just to say he is an ENFj then?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

easier is not always right....... i've seen ENTjs being so Fe you'd go crazy. and like they are always like it. but the thing is, it's like as if the content of what they are transmitting, even though the "external" may look so Fe it's crazy, is at least directed in the Te direction. like as if this is my goal, and not to make sure everyone is energized, emotional, crazy and rofling, etc.

Dude, if you think a person can walk around with a role function as strong as a dominant function then its superman you must be talking talking about.

Whatever it is I think your analysing it too much. If you have Exxj like you say, and the person consistently, easily, skillfully and predominantly demonstrates Fe, then they are dominant Fe. That isn't how role Fe works at all.

[Phaedrus]

yeah, go on and pray you socionics "gods" lol.

and we all KNOW it here, i mean come on!!! WHEN YOU START USING LANGUAGE LIKE THAT, IT MEANS THAT YOUR GROUNDS HAVE BEEN FULLY DISCREDITED.

On the contrary. It means that you are dismissing mainstream Socionics. You are not only criticizing me, you are criticizing all those sources I mentioned. On what grounds are you doing it? Do you really have a sound base of knowledge of the types upon which you can make correct typings? It seems that you haven't since you are not agreeing with what is considered basic common knowledge of the types. You probably need to do some more studying. Your foundation looks a little shaky, to tell you the truth (which I always do by the way).

[World Socionics]

Nonsense! David Cameron is as Delta as they get. LSE!!! Interestingly Tony is also thought to be an LSE.

Notice, the difference between the clean-cut Deltas and the rather rough around the edges look of Gamma Gordon

But yes, the main power of argumentation in the House of Commons is driven by Extraverted Logic, not Extraverted Ethics. We're just not a very Beta-friendly bunch

[squirreltual]

Nonsense! David Cameron is as Delta as they get. LSE!!!

Where is the Te? Show me the Te!

[glam]

pretty sure Cameron is ethical...

[Not A Communist Shill]

@lecter suggested SEE in a thread a few years ago and someone else (who I won't mention unless they choose to do so themselves!) also believed this...I currently prefer it as a typing over EIE for example. If so, it is not something that is immediately obvious to me in large part due to a blindspot in regards of the range of SEEs...I think his portrayal of a Flashman persona may be illustrative.