View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?

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Thread: Do you believe in God?

  1. #441
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    This question has never been relevant.

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    Yup! It's the most important relationship in my life.

  3. #443
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    I don't "believe" in god, I think that its existance is the most logical option.

  4. #444
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    I subscribe to biocentrism, which is the idea that death is simply impossible to experience and therefore we must always be alive and conscious in some form, and that the laws of physics are shaped around supporting the existence of life/consciousness.

  5. #445
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    I believe in a pantheist God. Everything is logically a better god than nothing (atheism.) There are also plenty of things now that could blow the gods of various prehistoric religions to smithereens. The God of Abraham couldn't take down iron chariots, and whatever that exactly referred to, it makes him sound like some sort of fairy being scared off by iron who we really would've accidentally killed like at the beginning of Also Sprach Zarathustra as soon as we had cannons, never mind tanks and bombs. God is real and gods are real by various definitions of gods, but no cosmic parent is going to save you. It's better just not to navel-gaze.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    I subscribe to biocentrism, which is the idea that death is simply impossible to experience and therefore we must always be alive and conscious in some form, and that the laws of physics are shaped around supporting the existence of life/consciousness.
    There were plenty of times in the past I wasn't conscious (like before birth) and there will be plenty of times in the future I won't be (sleep.) I don't intend to be eternally dead ever and I hope to avoid ever being dead at all (who knows exactly what'll happen?) but biocentrism seems pretty self-evidently false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    I don't "believe" in god, I think that its existance is the most logical option.
    That's still a form of belief (rationalism,) just not the kind organized religion pushes, which is an important distinction when actually talking about god so that's good to bring up. What kind of god do you believe in, deist, Spinoza's god, some sort of Brahman type god or Gaia entity who works miracles?

  8. #448
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    I believe in reincarnation, and some sort of unnamed spiritual energy that we’re all floating in that’s shaping us.

    I have prayed to a god when I was young in dire times (or at least, dire times for an 8 year old ) but I never got any answers. But I only did it because I felt like I was supposed to because of society. When I was a kid, I used to let others opinions shape me a lot so when I saw religious people in the world I kind of thought, hey am I supposed to do this too? But when I tried it I just felt empty and almost stupid lol. Before I let anyone’s beliefs touch me I was basically a natural atheist. I come from a mixed religion household and I was never taught to believe one thing or the other, or really anything. They just let me think whatever, which is one of the very few little things I will thank my parents for. I have never been to a church in my life either. I’ve joked that I’d probably start burning if I tried to enter one and they’d reject me. But even when I “tried” to pray as a kid, I wasn’t a believer. I was just an agnostic kid.

    I believe more in the power of nature which can seem unexplainable, but science can explain whatever questions we pose.
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  9. #449

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    The two main types of gods humans follow are 1) discrete entities of "magical" power such as in polytheist traditions that may or may not embody forces of nature; and 2) a "thing" so massive and all-encompassing in reach, that it can be better explained as an illusion of our anthropic frame of perception, rather than the apparent object we make it out to be.
    The former is at least falsifiable, even if it's true that we've never encountered it. The latter type is more in line with monotheism.

    Theological explanations for the apparently contradictory or aloof actions of a monotheistic god often cite their utter lack of obligation to the creations they love, despite their seemingly random willingness to selectively help certain loyal followers in times of need. This is a sharp departure from the initiative motive many people have for following a monotheistic faith, being the promise of at least some sort of assistance in either this life or the next in exchange for loyalty to the deity; once this aspect of equivalent exchange goes away, you're left with nothing but "following god for God's sake," which becomes silly descriptive nihilism. Those who were bound to worship God for its own sake will end up worshiping, and reaping the due reward, no matter what, and those who were bound not to, never can and never will with the same righteous motivations, and will never be duly rewarded no matter how hard they fake it.
    Not only does this destroy the monotheistic carrot of God's unwavering love or eternal afterlife, it also reduces your theology back to the same hard determinism you'd get from Reductive Physicalism, and all the theological framework is now fluff that serves no apparent purpose.


    To the apparent statistical improbability of something so final and infinite having such an overstated interest in something as minuscule in its creations of Humanity - or alternately, the unlikelihood of the grand creator operating on assumptions that otherwise seem uniquely anthropic - there's the Iranaean Theodicy, the idea that a creator's intent for creating us in an imperfect world is for it to serve as a testing ground for our virtue. One could take this a step further and infer that any god that needs a testing ground to complete his own creations is not "omnipotent" in the sense of having all possible power, but may be "quasi-omnipotent" by simply being the most powerful entity in existence. This description is closer to the first type of god, the "powerful spirit," rather than a god of the infinite.
    What's peculiar about this perspective is that when moral determinism is applied, the choices a person makes given the circumstances of making them hinge on traits of moral virtue innate to themselves; we all know we have an easier time making "better" choices when our strength is up and our wits about us, so the formula for one's moral merit is some function of their mental fortitude - their strength. Their power to resist temptation.
    More powerful beings are more moral, and will be judged more favorably in the end. Might makes Right - therefore, the selection of the Righteous from Unrighteous is the selection of the Strong from the weak.
    But we already have this in the absence of monotheistic god, in the form of Natural Selection. God's behavior matches the uncaring tides of Nature, making him redundant.

    The questions raised by theology are grimly answered by an entirely different framework. The only thing theology leaves us with is the useless artifact of anthropomorphizing nature, in the form of "god."

    And that is its gravest mistake. Projecting a human face into the night sky that tried to smother us in our crib across the strange aeons when we were coming of age.

    "Love" god? How many of you were born mighty? Our angry mother tried to abort us. Several times. And fools still aspire to live "in accordance with her" instead of finally giving her the good arm-twisting she deserves.
    If God exists, you don't want to meet him. We are no children of his. If he were in you, you'd be walking to him already, because nothing would be more desirable. And if you don't have him in you now, you never did and never will.

  10. #450
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    My family drilled the teachings of Christianity into me for much of my life, and so, as was almost inevitable, I spent a number of years practicing that religion. I stopped practicing it at the age of about 14, and, at that point, became an atheist. My atheism took shape as a result of God's overwhelming silence. He never answered my prayers and, in general, never revealed himself to me in any way, shape, or form. It looked exactly like there was no God. Then, ten years later, I had some extraordinary experiences that led me to conclude that there is a higher power. That higher power is likely enough me--I have discovered that I have many of the key characteristics of God--and likely enough not me. I don't know for sure. What I do know for sure is that there is a God. I believe that this being called God plays an active role in shaping the past, present, and future of this universe. I think that He is making it all up as He goes along, and constantly revising.

  11. #451
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    Yes, God is the ever present, revitalizing, futuristic construct of all thought and emotion amounting through tempests and finalities escalating maximum frenzy to show that fate, conspiring, surmounting, climbing, and beaming up transcends all alien nonsense with the pure and illuminating light of all that is, from the bottom of the zoo, to the end of the rainbow.
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    Yeah I'm pretty sure Dr Evil is God and Satan is mini me.
    The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice

    -Krishna

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Yeah I'm pretty sure Dr Evil is God and Satan is mini me.
    Yeah, the universe is run by selected ILI's.
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  14. #454
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    No, but I do appreciate (sometimes) reading or learning about people’s religious beliefs. I considered myself agnostic up until recently. I was also quite unhappy (unhappy but holding on) up until recently (there may be a link). I more or less stopped believing in the possibility of God when I started learning about typology/psychology. It was a little bit of a shock but ok. I still believe in the goodness of humanity or at least try to. I would still like to learn more about religion.

    Edit: Also I went to Catholic school so I have a decent understanding of the teachings of Jesus. My memories are vague but I remember the gist. I agree with a lot of things he said and taught. I think in my heart I may be a follower of his teachings but in reality I would benefit from reading about other philosophies too (or I’d end up being too nice and taken advantage of). Maybe Jesus was SLI trying to be IEI.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 05-31-2021 at 11:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightDemonSheep96 View Post
    Yeah, the universe is run by selected ILI's.
    Well that’s a scary thought. How do I move to a universe run by ILEs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Well that’s a scary thought. How do I move to a universe run by ILEs?
    Spend more time in the Maker sections of YouTube. I recommend starting in the amateur additive manufacturing sections, but any section where someone is devoting huge amounts of time to something that is incredibly brilliant and completely unmarketable will do.

    You’ll know that you’ve arrived if someone starts talking about their best friend and it turns out that they are a pigeon.

  17. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    No, but I do appreciate (sometimes) reading or learning about people’s religious beliefs. I considered myself agnostic up until recently. I was also quite unhappy (unhappy but holding on) up until recently (there may be a link). I more or less stopped believing in the possibility of God when I started learning about typology/psychology. It was a little bit of a shock but ok. I still believe in the goodness of humanity or at least try to. I would still like to learn more about religion.

    Edit: Also I went to Catholic school so I have a decent understanding of the teachings of Jesus. My memories are vague but I remember the gist. I agree with a lot of things he said and taught. I think in my heart I may be a follower of his teachings but in reality I would benefit from reading about other philosophies too (or I’d end up being too nice and taken advantage of). Maybe Jesus was SLI trying to be IEI.
    His teachings seem very Ni+Te to me. The New Testament gives me a Gamma NT vibe
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

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  18. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    His teachings seem very Ni+Te to me. The New Testament gives me a Gamma NT vibe
    Oh interesting. So this made me think of my boss who I think could be LIE. I work in the education sector which I see as my way of serving humanity. I think the head of services could be LIE (a very mild-mannered one). During the pandemic lots of my colleagues got really stressed about having to come on campus (occasionally) when the peak of the virus was at its worst. My IEE friend wrote an open letter about having to come in and lots of people signed it. Although I supported her I didn’t really agree with her beliefs. The head of services responded to them with a flawless, detailed explanation of why they were wrong stating that we had a duty towards our students who were in our care. Overall I find the university to be a very harmonious work environment where everyone works well together and feels valued. But I was quite proud when she responded so authoritatively and reminded them of the core purpose and values we stood for as a community. Seems a bit Jesus-y to me haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Oh interesting. So this made me think of my boss who I think could be LIE. I work in the education sector which I see as my way of serving humanity. I think the head of services could be LIE (a very mild-mannered one). During the pandemic lots of my colleagues got really stressed about having to come on campus (occasionally) when the peak of the virus was at its worst. My IEE friend wrote an open letter about having to come in and lots of people signed it. Although I supported her I didn’t really agree with her beliefs. The head of services responded to them with a flawless, detailed explanation of why they were wrong stating that we had a duty towards our students who were in our care. Overall I find the university to be a very harmonious work environment where everyone works well together and feels valued. But I was quite proud when she responded so authoritatively and reminded them of the core purpose and values we stood for as a community. Seems a bit Jesus-y to me haha.
    Motivating by being Jesus is in our toolbox. 3D Ni, Role Fe.

  20. #460
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    If there are gods they dont give a shit about weather or not I believe in them.

  21. #461
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    I believe in God. I know he exists. God is complete One-ness - the full realization we're all One Family. There's nothing to be afraid of, because hating and fearing you is like hating and fearing myself (and vice-versa) It's not the same thing as PC 'equality' or anything- it's much deeper than that. There are perverted or lesser forms of One-ness though that masquerade as One-ness but isn't really the same thing. The 'deep state' left or political corporate left is an example of this perverted form of One-ness. It's still better than being a Republican (god anything is better than being a Republican!) but it's not quite there. Communist ideals are also a broken form of One-ness. Communism always has these pure and noble intentions but in reality you need a creepy authoritative dictator to 'keep everybody in line' and so the price isn't worth it and it sucks.

    Obviously we're all very different, but One-ness isn't sameness or the opposite of difference anyway. But like I was explaining before- there are three spiritual realms- the White, Red & Black. White is the Holy realm of One-ness - the peaceful promised land and the real heaven. Red is the dramatic 'real world' where Good & Evil are forced to work together for an outcome that is more practical, profitable or efficient. It is the ultimate Illuminati symbol. It's why the real world is represented by the 'evil eye' that's actually also good- and how the Bird has arrows in one talon and an olive branch in the other. This is all Red crap. Red is a snappy and abrasive 2D Te SEE worldly Drag Queen telling you to stop being a loser and fit in more. Losers are people who are too angelic or too demonic.

    Black is the Hell world because it represents stuck-ness. A demon is something that refuses to change. They can't evolve, get better, or redeem. And it also represents things like sadism, intense gloom, eternal punishment with no reward etc. People who do fucked up things without earning redemption or atoinment- end up in the 'black place' because that's what they karmically deserve. Obviously you can't just go around sexually abusing children or murdering people in creepy and fucked up ways and just think there would be no consequences for it etc.

    However, everybody has some black in them- and truly seeing your own Black (and not just punishing the Black-ness of others) is what true spiritual growth is all about.

    Vile and 'evil' people have often treated me better than 'Good' people. This is because Good or Self-Righteous people always think they understand Jesus' love but are in truth so far away from it. A 'bad person' might be bad- but they don't have to stay that way, because Jesus redeems and forgives. The real God hang around with demons, with homosexuals, with fucked up people- and he didn't ask them to change or expressed snobby disdain towards them, he only changed them naturally with his presence. This is because a Demon is just a corrupt and broken off piece of the whole God and he realized this better than anybody. God was them and they were God- they both had to just realize it.

    A Good person who thinks they are Good but is actually not- nothing pisses off the real God more and they are probably in for a big surprise when they get into the afterlife!

    As Gahndi would say, I love Christ but I don't like your Christians. They are often so unlike your Christ.

    Anyways my mom thinks i should be a priest lol. /casts Curaga.

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    @BandD nice post Your spiritual realms remind me of the Black and White lodges and the Red Room in Twin Peaks. In the UK it seems we are less religious and more pessimistic than the US. I think people here are secretly tolerant of people at the ‘bottom of society’ but only because they don’t have much hope for themselves either. I feel like we’ve reached a bit of a low point in recent years and could really do with a modernised centre-left party in power to lift everyone’s spirits. I used to hope for a left-wing party but I don’t think that’s where we are at the moment lol. We are also very class-conscious here. I’m hoping eventually people wake up to the fact that inequality has widened too far and realise we need to take better care of the sick and needy. I don’t think people here really want to live without the security of having access to basic rights, non-dependent on their success and losses in life. Also, I don’t think they really want to bring their children up in a soulless society that their children can’t believe in and learn from. We are still a privileged country after all and part of the luxury of privilege is being able to give back to society. Unless I’m wrong and it’s gonna get worse

    Edit:

    I realise I haven’t commented on the ‘bad’ or ‘weak’ in society. I guess I would consider a lot of these people under the umbrella of needy. Some people of course need to be locked away and we need infrastructure in place to protect people from the bad guys. But we also need to help people who’ve lost their way in life (lost their job, lost their partner, lost their mind or who are struggling to make ends meet and find peace). Some of these people might be judged as bad for ‘letting themselves’ end up in that position.

    A little bit of support can go a long way if it is the right support and a person who feels supported is likely to do the same for someone else. I like to think that happy people find a way to be good people. But there are also lots of good people who aren’t happy. That’s where spiritual and psychological awareness can help and should be more central to society (doesn’t have to be religious but can be). This awareness can help them understand their value and self-worth.

    I’m really rambling now and tired
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 05-31-2021 at 09:04 PM.

  23. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandD View Post
    I believe in God. I know he exists. God is complete One-ness - the full realization we're all One Family. There's nothing to be afraid of, because hating and fearing you is like hating and fearing myself (and vice-versa) It's not the same thing as PC 'equality' or anything- it's much deeper than that. There are perverted or lesser forms of One-ness though that masquerade as One-ness but isn't really the same thing.
    Black is the Hell world because it represents stuck-ness. A demon is something that refuses to change. They can't evolve, get better, or redeem. And it also represents things like sadism, intense gloom, eternal punishment with no reward etc. People who do fucked up things without earning redemption or atoinment- end up in the 'black place' because that's what they karmically deserve. Obviously you can't just go around sexually abusing children or murdering people in creepy and fucked up ways and just think there would be no consequences for it etc.
    That right there is the reason why I wonder if I am 'Fi'... Maybe these 'Ti/Fe-egos' that I question or who question me just fit into that category you just specified right there, and that's about all there is to it...

    I was going to start a thread about whether one would read an informational book written by a psychopath. I was going to say that I would read what Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett have to say, as they are just died-in-the-wool atheists (as 'Ti' to me, and therefore not what I'm talking about), as opposed to something like Adolf ******'s "Mein Kampf," which I think should be burned (as it is just pure tripe - even if it had a number of brilliant ideas in it, it is still tripe...), but your post satisfied me, so I will hold back...

  24. #464
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    I believe whatever created everything is ‘God’ or the ‘creator’. As for which religion is right or what kind of being this god is, I have no clue. I feel like is way past my understanding the way everything works, probably, and it’s unlikely I’ll ever find out. I call myself an agnostic. So I guess that would make me an agnostic theist? Anyway, I used to be all into religion when I was younger, and went to a private Baptist elementary school, but I lost my faith, so I’ve heard. But I think it’s a nice idea to believe in things like a religion, gives people hope that they will see loved ones again etc. Although it can also be used for manipulative reasons...but I’m not entirely for or against it. Actually I think it’s a pretty beautiful and extremely interesting thing, and am pretty jealous by the level of faith some people have, I must admit...
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    As an archetype of the collective unconscious, certainly, but beyond that I am less sure. I think God/the gods are relevant topics of discussion from a sociocultural perspective and worshipping him/her/it/them may have value regardless of the metaphysical reality. At the very least I think it is important for providing the sense of a shared cultural identity to people
    “Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
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    If one exists, I don’t know about it. The claims of organized religions seem to me not very believable, and mystics don’t tend to strike me as trustworthy either.

    When I was younger I prayed for guidance and for a connection to God. I didn’t receive any, at least not anything I’d recognize. Despite searching, I’ve never felt the divine, as many people have claimed to. Actually, when people say they’ve found God, I can’t think of any instance where it’s made the person notably better or more insightful, which I would expect to happen, and the only evidence they seem to be able to give for their claims and revealed truths, which are often contradictory, is their own confidence. Generally they struggle even to clearly present a rational rationale for or explanation of the teachings they give back to the world; I might hear something about the importance of “loving everyone,” but they struggle to define or describe what “love” is, or what it would practically mean to love, say, ******; when explaining how we should “love” people like this their definition of “love” invariably begins to get diluted and they begin to sound like a European social democrat talking about prisons and rehabilitative justice, lol. If “love” is defined as “wishing the best for people” (which I was taught in one of my university’s required theology classes was how the RCC defined love) your message of universal love doesn’t strike me as very impressive — I’ve somehow managed to “”love”” everyone on the planet; can I apply to be considered a living saint?? — and yet when you insist this is some revolutionary doctrine, it kind of undermines the ability of anyone to take you seriously.

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    Easiest way to define God is to say that it's the non-ego.

    I am surrounded by houses, cars, birds, the sky, my own body, random feelings that come and go, newspapers, sudden sleepiness, trees, neighbours, dirt, sand etc. All this makes up the non-ego that is the "other". I can orient myself in this "other" but ultimately I don't know what it is. It has power over me. I depend on it and I am hopelessly "stuck" in it.

    So in this way I believe in God, a god that is omnipotent, both dangerous and good, an "authority" and mysterious beyond comprehension. The qualities that have been attributed to God in the great religions are not arbitrary.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I believe if there are beings like Gods or creator, one day mankind must face them, fight them and destroy them to claim our own destiny. We human shouldn't bow to anyone/thing, even the universe itself...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Oh interesting. So this made me think of my boss who I think could be LIE. I work in the education sector which I see as my way of serving humanity. I think the head of services could be LIE (a very mild-mannered one). During the pandemic lots of my colleagues got really stressed about having to come on campus (occasionally) when the peak of the virus was at its worst. My IEE friend wrote an open letter about having to come in and lots of people signed it. Although I supported her I didn’t really agree with her beliefs. The head of services responded to them with a flawless, detailed explanation of why they were wrong stating that we had a duty towards our students who were in our care. Overall I find the university to be a very harmonious work environment where everyone works well together and feels valued. But I was quite proud when she responded so authoritatively and reminded them of the core purpose and values we stood for as a community. Seems a bit Jesus-y to me haha.
    I think ILI is the prophet type. Have you seen the documentary about Greta Thunberg? She's a modern ILI prophet. Even Jung said that without Ni there would have been no prophets in Israel.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I think ILI is the prophet type. Have you seen the documentary about Greta Thunberg? She's a modern ILI prophet. Even Jung said that without Ni there would have been no prophets in Israel.
    Nope not seen it, but now you mention it..she is rather prophet like (I never thought of ILI that way..). My good friend is ILI and very very atheist so I associate ILI with atheism lol. She’s probably mellowed a bit now, but after arguing about it once, I couldn’t bare to bring it up again lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    For me it's a personal thing. You don't have to seek religions and you don't have to be perceived as necessarily better with it. And the thing about some aspects of the world is you just know them. Either you get it or you don't. That's why I actually don't try to convince people of this and other similar concepts as well. But note that "God" could mean something different for someone else, and maybe you have already experienced and seen your own God but you don't define it as God. Though knowing God can be a process but that process that you would actually take unhesitatingly and it involves really unearthing yourself - your strengths, your weaknesses, your beliefs and even your wrongdoings. And I also don't believe that God is to be worshiped and you certainly won't find God in one religion. It probably would expose you to the concept, but it's not necessary.
    I've been trying to understand what you mean. If all God is is different things to different people, surely it doesn't actually exist, and trying to determine anything objective about its existence would be pointless?

    I'm also not sure why anyone should undergo the process of trying to seek God, when, as I tried to articulate in my earlier post, those who've claimed to succeed don't seem very trustworthy, and the alleged benefits seem dubious.

    In any case, it may be that I'm one of the ones who just don't "get it." I suppose that's fine with me.

    I think that people in touch with God (I'm talking about my own perception of God at this point) may be more open and tolerant of people most of the time because they have recognized that they are just similar to other human beings leading a path that seems right to them, and that they have acknowledged the fact that no knows everything, so there is a lot of chance for mistakes and that's okay. But I don't think that they will be perceived as better and more insightful. It's a bit tricky because that judgment depends on the person perceiving them, which might have a limited view or intolerant. And having these kinds of criteria (good, better, best, more, less, etc) is outside of the light. Everything is equal. You can think of it this way: Alphas might judge Gamma values harshly and vice versa. Or, a person might think that someone not participating in the rat race is naive and stupid, but would we really know which path is better? The light of God removes all those barriers that limit us to the actual truth. Aside from that, the person who is in touch with God doesn't necessarily have to be "good" all the time, good as in what society thinks is good anyway. For example, people and even some religions expect us to be have clean thoughts all the time. But that's impossible, I am both good and evil. Thinking negatively of the other person and muttering "Fuck that bitch! She's stupid" is just part of being human. But knowing God, I know that I have to reflect on why I had that thought and actually build an intention to shed light on things that make me judge that person harshly.
    Reading this post feels slightly like trying to understand a foreign language. I don't mean that as an insult to you; I just think our frameworks of understanding reality are significantly different.

    Regarding what I think you're saying about good and evil, though I was indoctrinated with this dualistic kind of framing of "good and evil," it doesn't intuitively seem true or correspond to anything I understand about the world works. Obviously some actions contribute to the good of the individual or of society and some actions contribute to the harm of one or the other, but a statement like "I am both good and evil," as if these are intrinsic qualities of a person that exist in abstraction from that person's actions -- I find it difficult to integrate this into my understanding of the universe, if that makes sense.

    Re. what you've said about judging other people, I suppose I see expressions of anger toward other people -- at least ones I make -- as essentially that; frustration. This might be an Fe vs Fi-valuing difference. I don't really form moral categories of people and spend my time and energy sorting people into them, as if when I complain that someone is stupid I'm passing some sort of judgement that all their existence on earth is a waste -- all I'm really saying is "I'm annoyed," and I think I expect people to hear me to understand it that way as well. Though I'd admit that often I shouldn't say, or shouldn't have said, things like that, I'd say I'm pretty much always aware of why I think or express those sorts of thoughts.

    Fi valuers I've noticed seem to have a different understanding of personal criticisms and judgements. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there seems to be a feeling that by ascribing someone a description like "stupid," it somehow robs that person of agency -- like it's an act of violence, in a way. IIRC an EII here said something like that to me not long ago. If anyone would like to try to explain this better, I'd be interested to learn.

    In any case, the point you made about different people having different values and understandings of the world got through, at least -- that's obvious!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moharu View Post
    I believe if there are beings like Gods or creator, one day mankind must face them, fight them and destroy them to claim our own destiny. We human shouldn't bow to anyone/thing, even the universe itself...
    Nice, that's edging close to the dominant ideology of the Klingon Empire (the Klingons also slew their Gods).

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I've been trying to understand what you mean. If all God is is different things to different people, surely it doesn't actually exist, and trying to determine anything objective about its existence would be pointless?

    I'm also not sure why anyone should undergo the process of trying to seek God, when, as I tried to articulate in my earlier post, those who've claimed to succeed don't seem very trustworthy, and the alleged benefits seem dubious.

    In any case, it may be that I'm one of the ones who just don't "get it." I suppose that's fine with me.


    I think what she say is some kind of "Personal Enlightenment" lol. For different people, it mean different things. For Christian it's Jesus, for Buddhist it's Nirvana, for Hindu it's Brahma, for Taoism people it's Tao...

    And for me it's just simply about understanding myself better, since I don't value any higher purpose. But Taoism and Buddhism really have some nice ideas, only one bad thing about them is they suggest you to remove your ego, and for Te/Fi user like me, nope.

    Christianity is suck because it's just tell you to blindly believe in something (God is sooo great and you have to believe in him), no fun at all. Constantinus should chose Zoroastrianism instead.
    Last edited by Tarnished; 06-04-2021 at 06:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Nice, that's edging close to the dominant ideology of the Klingon Empire (the Klingons also slew their Gods).
    Klingon Empire seem too Beta for me. I acttually value personal freedom more than group's power.

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    God is so dope.

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    I'm not sure. Sometimes I think I do, but then I wonder if that's just because I grew up being trained to believe in Gob, or is it because I genuinely do? And sometimes the whole concept just doesn't seem like it could be real.

    I guess I do believe that there is some being out there that created us all, but I just don't like to use the name God.
    Chronic "grass is always greener" syndrome




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    The way of God to repeating the path of the higher and the sound of wish controls the tides and the aether to position more shards of the amulet of growing aim in the forcefield of time and distance.

    God lifts the barriers and threads of confusion and misery to embark us on the elevated route to wonder and feeling charity offers in moments of reflection and drinking from the Holy Grail.

    Da Vinci saw the kabbalah as the sefirots in the Last Supper Tree of Life, and by charting the stars and distant points of light in the sky, we wheel the eternal dragon's spirits and breathe into the cycle of birth and death new batteries for uploading and charging our conduits for 1 great start to an adventure.

    God crosses the borders of new limits and flows in the purification chamber of throwing down the static and lifeless piston to the generating and melodic vial of self mastery.
    Raptor was Lugia through Erling Haaland Riley Halloween in 2023 vs Inter Milan, showing journals of impossible dialogues and colosseums of grand altitudes shocking pinch torrent gel and flash arcing clockwork folly and ageless triumph holding fuses of collections. Raptor defeated Sauron in 2006 by stopping Zidane Zapdos Zarathustra Tesla, ideas of oasis healing gifting sacred gems and envelopes of highlight stealth picturing raiment of claymores and seawater caliber psychic birds
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    It starts with faith, which is the necessary soil for your seed to grow.

    Many times our seeds lack proper foundation for growth; tossed aside the road, swallowed up in rocks, tangled up in thorns. We close our hearts demanding this and that and let our personal experiences influence our interpretation of truth. Rather, we must filter our personal experiences through the truth. This takes faith at first.

    I could give you a list of prophecies the Bible has fulfilled that hasn't been refuted via historical evidence. I could bombard you with logical and philosophical arguments. I could share with you the testimonies of millions that have witnessed His power.

    But all that doesn't matter when the heart is closed.

    Have faith first, and God will show you His wonders.

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    Because of my life, I know there is a God. (I will not get into the details.) Why he cannot/does not help, I don't know. Because of what I've seen on the Internet, I worry that all things spiritual have some kind of Tony Robbins "self-help" type of mantra to them. That is incredibly disappointing. Hopefully, if there is a God, He actually has something intelligent to say and He can get through to either me or them... What I'm saying is: spare me the emotional fluff. Also, please spare me the ad-hoc, practical rule of thumb approach as a solution - as that only just partially solves the problem. I want something deeper intellectually in some way here... I just don't want more of these empty, sappy emotional emotional arguments - "God sometimes makes mistakes" types of things that remind me of a line from Office Space: "Somebody has a case of the Mondays." If He's out there, I want some real help, and a lot less of that... (And certainly not any of the abusive, tyrannical approach I sometimes see from people - please aim it at them, and not me...)
    Last edited by jason_m; 06-10-2021 at 10:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    Because of my life, I know there is a God. (I will not get into the details.) Why he cannot/does not help, I don't know. Because of what I've seen on the Internet, I worry that all things spiritual have some kind of Tony Robbins "self-help" type of mantra to them. That is incredibly disappointing. Hopefully, if there is a God, He actually has something intelligent to say and He can get through to either me or them... What I'm saying is: spare me the emotional fluff. Also, please spare me the ad-hoc, practical rule of thumb approach as a solution - as that only just partially solves the problem. I want something deeper intellectually in some way here... I just don't want more of these empty, sappy emotional emotional arguments - "God sometimes makes mistakes" types of things that remind me of a line from Office Space: "Somebody has a case of the Mondays." If He's out there, I want some real help, and a lot less of that... (And certainly not any of the abusive, tyrannical approach I sometimes see from people - please aim it at them, and not me...)
    I don't want to be harsh, but you just wait for god to appear in front of you, and solve all of your problem in a deepest way possible? And beside that what will you do? Doing nothing and just wait and wait?

    If you want to meet God so bad, at least try to do something to grab it's attention. At least those zealot fight and die for their god, they have a story to tell.

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