if you couldn't have your dual, which intertype would you choose?

[glam]

That's interesting. Do you feel like you are the Fe subtype?

Personally, I couldn't be with my Beneficiary, and only with an Illusionary if their Ti subtype was strong.
Mainly because I am deeply irritated by the Childlike romance style. It just does not work for me at all.
Being a strong Ni subtype, I need someone to be more Aggressor. I need someone to be direct, pro-active, both romantically and lifestyle-wise in general.
I am way too passive myself. The Se of men gives me more reassurance; it reflects positively on me. If it is directed at me positively, it makes me feel more appreciated.
Ne, on the other hand, can sometimes make me feel insulted somehow. As if I was not taking seriously as a person, a woman.

Having said that, many years ago when I was a pre-teen up to my early teens, I used to be less strong Ni subtype, perhaps even close to the Fe subtype. Around that time, Gamma SF guys could not impress me too much. And yes, I could feel irritated by that "eagerness" ESFx people tend to present when engaging with someone.

Generally, subtype plays quite a role when it comes to what relation you'd prefer; especially if it is a pronounced subtype.

yes, i definitely think of myself as Fe subtype.

i know exactly what you mean about Infantile-Victim interactions, and the feeling of not being taken seriously. i guess that's what Infantile's requests for Si feel like to us - we want to give Ni instead, but it's not at all appreciated by Ne types. they are asking for something we do not value, that we cannot/do not want to give. IME, requests for direct Si help can immediately incite in me feelings of irritation (because i'm not interested) and stress (because i can't help them). i think the feeling you mention of being "insulted" can also apply to Fi demonstrations of affection (as bad as that sounds). something about it is not necessarily sincere to me, maybe because Fi knows "exactly what to say" in interpersonal situations. it can feel like they are saying what they think i want to hear, when i really need to hear the cold, hard truth

i prefer Ti subtypes, of course. i realized that i've often felt attracted to men that are "in the background" or whom i otherwise detect have a more reserved & distrustful side to them than their more positive, energetic public face may suggest. this description generally applies to many XLE-Ti subs, IMO.

[Adam Strange]

I think the feeling you mention of being "insulted" can also apply to Fi demonstrations of affection (as bad as that sounds). something about it is not necessarily sincere to me, maybe because Fi knows "exactly what to say" in interpersonal situations. it can feel like they are saying what they think i want to hear, when i really need to hear the cold, hard truth

Two thoughts, from an Fi user.
1. It is understandable that you want to hear the "cold, hard truth", if you have very weak Se. A weak ability to sense differences between what is real and what is imagined can lead to appreciating someone who tells you what actually is real, regardless of how that might reflect personally on you. Similarly, I, with weak Fi, want to know how someone is really feeling, because I can't tell just by looking.
2. To an Fe user like yourself, the fact that Fi users will sometimes seem to be softening the truth by telling you what they think you want to hear, makes them appear to be unreliable reporters of reality, and to you, that is bad. But Fi users are usually not trying to lie to you. Fe is flexible like a rubber sheet. One day, someone will tell you how much they love you or your shoes or your latest Instagram post, and the next day they are hating on you for some passing reason, and the third day they love you again, and the Fe relationships are none the worse for the experience. For example, IEI's may get offended, but they will eventually forget and forgive. Fi is more like a very thick glass plate. You can push on it and push on it, and it doesn't change much at all, until one day you break it, and it is not coming back. Given this situation, Fi users are minimizing the stress on the glass window, because it is hard to tell when it will break.
So, to an Fi consumer like myself, when I hear someone flatter me, or say something where I can tell they are holding back their full opinion, I understand that it is BS, but the correct way to interpret what they are saying when they soften the "cold, hard truth" is to realize that they care enough about you to not kick your windows in.

[glam]

Two thoughts, from an Fi user.
1. It is understandable that you want to hear the "cold, hard truth", if you have very weak Se. A weak ability to sense differences between what is real and what is imagined can lead to appreciating someone who tells you what actually is real, regardless of how that might reflect personally on you. Similarly, I, with weak Fi, want to know how someone is really feeling, because I can't tell just by looking.
2. To an Fe user like yourself, the fact that Fi users will sometimes seem to be softening the truth by telling you what they think you want to hear, makes them appear to be unreliable reporters of reality, and to you, that is bad. But Fi users are usually not trying to lie to you. Fe is flexible like a rubber sheet. One day, someone will tell you how much they love you or your shoes or your latest Instagram post, and the next day they are hating on you for some passing reason, and the third day they love you again, and the Fe relationships are none the worse for the experience. For example, IEI's may get offended, but they will eventually forget and forgive. Fi is more like a very thick glass plate. You can push on it and push on it, and it doesn't change much at all, until one day you break it, and it is not coming back. Given this situation, Fi users are minimizing the stress on the glass window, because it is hard to tell when it will break.
So, to an Fi consumer like myself, when I hear someone flatter me, or say something where I can tell they are holding back their full opinion, I understand that it is BS, but the correct way to interpret what they are saying when they soften the "cold, hard truth" is to realize that they care enough about you to not kick your windows in.

hi Adam, i kind of felt my post might trigger a response from an Fi person yes, i understand these things about Fi. i have had many Fi types in my life that have been close to me, and i can see all of this in their behavior. so i did not mean to sound like i think Fi types are "lying", that is not a fair description of how they are communicating. i just can't deny that there is often a disconnect between the "truth" that i expect versus the feedback i may get from an Fi type. it's hard to explain, but i often interpret Fi user's *intent* as more sincere than the actual *content* of what they may say.

this is not to say i can't appreciate receiving Fi support from my loved ones (friends and family) who are Fi ego. they mean a lot to me. in a romantic relationship however, i don't think i would deal with Fi very well, seems like it'd clash too much with my Fe and my heavy Ti-seeking.

[Adam Strange]

Hi, Glam.
I'm not offended. I understood your intent, especially with your qualifying statement "(as bad as that sounds)". I have a favorite cousin, very close, who is IEI, and so I am familiar with Fe, and actually greatly appreciate it for its refreshing qualities. If I have a complaint about her Fe, it is that it sometimes seems like she treats me like one of her dogs. "Good boy! Bad dog! Good dog!" It has its merits, in the sense that it is hard to permanently break this kind of relationship, but I prefer being a human on most days.
In any case, I really was just throwing my opinion out there to see if anyone had any thoughts on it, to refine it or correct it. You never know what you'll learn here.
Also, I appreciate your sharing your view on Fi. Reading it gives me more insight and understanding into my cousin's mind, which is good, because I like her a lot.

And lastly, I agree that the Fe/Fi divide would make romantic relationships harder to maintain, but it would ultimately depend on what else was going on, and how adaptable the two people are.

[Myst]

when i really need to hear the cold, hard truth

That sounds good

i prefer Ti subtypes, of course. i realized that i've often felt attracted to men that are "in the background" or whom i otherwise detect have a more reserved & distrustful side to them than their more positive, energetic public face may suggest. this description generally applies to many XLE-Ti subs, IMO.

OK slightly off topic but so you are describing xLE-Ti's as having a positive, energetic public face by default but you also mention them being in the background, is that two distinct subgroups of xLE-Ti's in your experience?

[Olimpia]

i think the feeling you mention of being "insulted" can also apply to Fi demonstrations of affection (as bad as that sounds). something about it is not necessarily sincere to me, maybe because Fi knows "exactly what to say" in interpersonal situations. it can feel like they are saying what they think i want to hear, when i really need to hear the cold, hard truth

i prefer Ti subtypes, of course. i realized that i've often felt attracted to men that are "in the background" or whom i otherwise detect have a more reserved & distrustful side to them than their more positive, energetic public face may suggest. this description generally applies to many XLE-Ti subs, IMO.

Ah, I actually do not experience this frustration you have described about Fi types being "insincere". I just accept it, haha. You must mean SEE and IEE, whose Fi is "Creative" and hence rather flexible. IME, ESI and EII are way less likely to just tell you what you want to hear; they may manipulate you in other ways, but not in the sense of Fe Demonstrative, "softening the blows". ESI and EII would be more prone to manipulating you into the direction of their personal Fi agenda, whereas Fi Creative people will more likely (albeit sort of sporadically) create a positive emotional atmosphere. I actually do not mind that. You finding that upsetting is likely an Fe subtype thing. My ESE mother, for instance, is getting upset every time my SEE aunt is being "nice" to her (Fe Demonstrative), just to later show she did not really mean it and was just looking for a way to have no harsh conflict. Every time, I will tell my ESE mother "that's how my aunt is, she does not mean it badly".

So, it likely must be an Fe thing of needing that Ti honesty, especially for Fe Leading and Fe subtype people.
Me being strong Ni subtype with "boosted" Ti, I do not have such a need for that. Sure, I appreciate the kind of honesty Ti types provide, but it is nothing I am looking for that much. The way how SEE and IEE use their Fi is acceptable to me, if only slightly irritating. I'm facing much more difficulties with Fi leading types, whose Fi is static and not "creative". Like @Adam Strange said, an Fe user has to learn first that the "glass plate" of the Fi lead is there and can break irrevocably. I've had an ESI friend end our several years long, close friendship because of a little "prank" I did to her. I was very confused and sad about that incidence. I have had similar problems with an LIE online, with whom I would converse and suddenly commit similar "Fi blunders". He'd take it better than the ESI, but it was still a similar situation. This might be the downfall of the IEI-2Ni, a greater lack of Fi awareness or care, opposed to the IEI-Fe who's more in touch with Fi as well.

Finally, I could see most women being more drawn to the guy who is not displaying too many emotions, regardless of specific Sociotype. Studies have shown women prefer men to have less expressive faces, whereas men prefer women to smile, when it comes to attraction. However, I could see those findings being tied to most women being Ethical types, preferring Logical ones who have weaker Feeling, and vice versa. In that context, I can relate to finding "brooding men" more attractive from a distance. Still, I am more prone to finding SEE or IEE more attractive than LII, for instance. Could be the Se seeking, or looking for an Ep temperament or Aggressor, etc etc. Also, I find the fact that SEE and IEE are "serious" opposed to "merry" (according to Reinin) makes the emotionality of the SEE or IEE less exaggerated, it is not as "in your face" as with ESE and EIE, whom I both find too gregarious. The "serious" quality can make an SEE or IEE be a little bit more serious in expression, especially when they are on their own, being "themselves" (Fi) and the Fe demonstrative is inactive.

All in all, I'd still prefer SEE over both LII or ILE.

[mikemex]

Generally, subtype plays quite a role when it comes to what relation you'd prefer; especially if it is a pronounced subtype.

Subtype and many other factors. Types are not people.

@n0ki pointed me to two personality systems which bring in very useful distinctions that Socionics doesn't even consider:

From NPA:

Perfectionism:
To me, perfectionist and non perfectionist people are worlds apart from each other. Some people are impulsive and just want to do what they want and thus neither welcome nor consider any criticism aimed at improving situations or even people. Since I'm highly perfectionistic myself (and thus overly critical of pretty much anything) I tend to not get along with such people. I consider them superficial.

From MOTIV:
Spartan/Materialist
(King of austere vs flashy OR internal narcissism vs external narcissism)
Some people are just driven by external values, especially prestige. And they go for everything that makes them closer to that goal (such as money, titles, etc.). But since they are defined by outside parameters, they are often quite shallow from a closer inspection. They don't have tastes on their own; they like what they think is fashionable. They can't afford to have a strong opinion on anything controversial, since that would mean adopting potentially unpopular views. They mostly lack interest in diving deep into culture. All in all, they lack this inner refinement that I consider normal.

So... I'm pretty convinced that for every type there are variants based on (at least) the traits above. For example, I know from close both variants of SLI and SEI and I know I get along with the ones who share my personality (perfectionistic-austere) while I tend to dislike the shallow variants.

[Olimpia]

Subtype and many other factors. Types are not people.

@n0ki pointed me to two personality systems which bring in very useful distinctions that Socionics doesn't even consider:

From NPA:

Perfectionism:
To me, perfectionist and non perfectionist people are worlds apart from each other. Some people are impulsive and just want to do what they want and thus neither welcome nor consider any criticism aimed at improving situations or even people. Since I'm highly perfectionistic myself (and thus overly critical of pretty much anything) I tend to not get along with such people. I consider them superficial.

From MOTIV:
Spartan/Materialist
(King of austere vs flashy OR internal narcissism vs external narcissism)
Some people are just driven by external values, especially prestige. And they go for everything that makes them closer to that goal (such as money, titles, etc.). But since they are defined by outside parameters, they are often quite shallow from a closer inspection. They don't have tastes on their own; they like what they think is fashionable. They can't afford to have a strong opinion on anything controversial, since that would mean adopting potentially unpopular views. They mostly lack interest in diving deep into culture. All in all, they lack this inner refinement that I consider normal.

So... I'm pretty convinced that for every type there are variants based on (at least) the traits above. For example, I know from close both variants of SLI and SEI and I know I get along with the ones who share my personality (perfectionistic-austere) while I tend to dislike the shallow variants.

Considering this is a Socionics forum, it should be expected for members to mention factors concerning Sociotypes first. But sure, there are other factors that come into play when we deal with compatibility.

Having said that, what you (or MOTIV) define as "Spartan vs Materialist" seems like Si vs Se valuing to me. Surely there will be more or less "materialist" Se valuing types, but I have observed that as a whole, Se valuing types are more concerned with such matters opposed to Si valuing types. And this reinforces my impressions:

Stimuli (in no particular order):

• Prestige (ES~~) [sensing-ego]
  
  • The Marshal (Sensory-Logical Extrovert) (ESTp)
  • The Director (Logical-Sensory Extrovert) (ESTj)
  • The Ambassador (Sensory-Ethical Extrovert) (ESFp)
  • The Enthusiast (Ethical-Sensory Extrovert) (ESFj)

Stimuli – at a glance:


Prestigious types are usually compelled by having a high reputation, honour or esteem, exerting influence by reason of their high status.

Assuming you are correctly typed as IEE-Ne, it would make sense you'd value clear signs of Si lead, including a "Spartan" lifestyle.

Finally, I am still not exactly sure what your take on perfectionism is. Do you mean you are a perfectionist and cannot deal with those who aren't?
Your description of perfectionism sounded very Te valuing ("consider any criticism aimed at improving situations or even people") and anti-Se ("Some people are impulsive and just want to do what they want") to me, by the way.

[Myst]

So, it likely must be an Fe thing of needing that Ti honesty, especially for Fe Leading and Fe subtype people.

Noticed the same

Finally, I could see most women being more drawn to the guy who is not displaying too many emotions, regardless of specific Sociotype. Studies have shown women prefer men to have less expressive faces, whereas men prefer women to smile, when it comes to attraction. However, I could see those findings being tied to most women being Ethical types, preferring Logical ones who have weaker Feeling, and vice versa. In that context, I can relate to finding "brooding men" more attractive from a distance. Still, I am more prone to finding SEE or IEE more attractive than LII, for instance. Could be the Se seeking, or looking for an Ep temperament or Aggressor, etc etc. Also, I find the fact that SEE and IEE are "serious" opposed to "merry" (according to Reinin) makes the emotionality of the SEE or IEE less exaggerated, it is not as "in your face" as with ESE and EIE, whom I both find too gregarious. The "serious" quality can make an SEE or IEE be a little bit more serious in expression, especially when they are on their own, being "themselves" (Fi) and the Fe demonstrative is inactive.

All in all, I'd still prefer SEE over both LII or ILE.

How much is that in percentages, "most women", afaik in MBTI research 60% of women turned out to be F types. I'd hardly call that "most women" I don't know about Socionics statistics. Looked at your link too, lol, I don't fit the mould, I always preferred feminine guys. Also I do prefer guys to smile instead of being totally non-expressive.

[Olimpia]

Looked at your link too, lol, I don't fit the mould, I always preferred feminine guys. Also I do prefer guys to smile instead of being totally non-expressive.

This actually reinforces my point of Ethical females preferring less expressive males, and Logical ones more expressive males. Given your dual is EIE, you'd be more inclined to prefer guys to smile, naturally.

[darya]

This actually reinforces my point of Ethical females preferring less expressive males, and Logical ones more expressive males. Given your dual is EIE, you'd be more inclined to prefer guys to smile, naturally.

There probably is some truth to this in general, but most crushes I had in life were by far on Fi creatives. Just love their enthusiasm. While I find many serious non-expressive guys hot in animalistic sense, I fail to fall in love with them - I need warmth and adorableness to connect to a guy and actually fall in love. For example, I wouldn't fall in love with those Hodgetwins douche bros if they would be the last people on Earth : ) What I usually also don't find attractive is any sort of IxFx guys, too feminine for my taste.

Actually, what I noticed is that ethicals are regularly attracted to each other, as well as to logicals, but logical types usually prefer ethicals for relationships. It's like a romantic relationship is more natural (romantic) if at least one partner is ethical, which kinda makes sense: ).

[Olimpia]

Actually, what I noticed is that ethicals are regularly attracted to each other, as well as to logicals, but logical types usually prefer ethicals for relationships. It's like a romantic relationship is more natural (romantic) if at least one partner is ethical, which kinda makes sense: ).

Once I described the difference between Logical men and Ethical men when it comes to sexual relations, in a forum where there was a debate on certain male Gamma NTs not being "sexually creative/kinky" enough:

A Logical type is more concerned with the practicality of the situation, devoid of the emotional aspect. In short, reaching the goal of "getting oneself and the other off", whereas the Ethical one is more concerned with the emotionality of the situation, the emotional exchange and heightened experience of that. All of those "kinky add-ons" (e.g plugs, handcuffs etc.) are not conducive to reaching the main goal, they are better for creating more emotional intimacy. That's likely why most Logical types would find them unnecessary. That's not their main mode of operation, basically.
That's probably why a Logical type needs an Ethical one in bed (in a relationship), because otherwise the emotional intimacy won't be reached and it's like sex between two humanoid robots (after a while).

[Myst]

This actually reinforces my point of Ethical females preferring less expressive males, and Logical ones more expressive males. Given your dual is EIE, you'd be more inclined to prefer guys to smile, naturally.

Well originally you brought up both possibilities, it either being type related or not, my example points towards it being at least somewhat type related I don't have statistics tho'. It's probably more complex than just being dependent on gender and type.

There probably is some truth to this in general, but most crushes I had in life were by far on Fi creatives. Just love their enthusiasm. While I find many serious non-expressive guys hot in animalistic sense, I fail to fall in love with them - I need warmth and adorableness to connect to a guy and actually fall in love. For example, I wouldn't fall in love with those Hodgetwins douche bros if they would be the last people on Earth : ) What I usually also don't find attractive is any sort of IxFx guys, too feminine for my taste.

Actually, what I noticed is that ethicals are regularly attracted to each other, as well as to logicals, but logical types usually prefer ethicals for relationships. It's like a romantic relationship is more natural (romantic) if at least one partner is ethical, which kinda makes sense: ).

Interesting, you show how it's more complex I find I'm not really into Fi creatives for some reason. I don't mind IxFx though, the femininity isn't a turn off to me at all, IEI-Fe is cool especially.

I think overall for me there are two main socionics factors in initial attraction for me: 1) weak/low Se, specifically Se HA/DS/PoLR, somehow Se role is not really in this category; 2) some level of expressiveness is needed as well of course. It's not easy to relate the latter factor directly with type because as I said, Fi creatives are more of a turn off than attractive, even e.g. Fe role seems better than that.

After the initial attraction it doesn't really work out with Se PoLRs though and of course there is a lot of other factors to influence how the relationship works out. Seems more complex than the initial attraction stuff...

As for F/T overall, I never had any conscious preference before. It seems complex, again. Socionics stuff does seem to matter tho'. Haven't drawn final conclusions yet

Darya, are you trying to say you have never managed to fall in love with T types after having initial attraction? Only F types?

Once I described the difference between Logical men and Ethical men when it comes to sexual relations, in a forum where there was a debate on certain male Gamma NTs not being "sexually creative/kinky" enough:

A Logical type is more concerned with the practicality of the situation, devoid of the emotional aspect. In short, reaching the goal of "getting oneself and the other off", whereas the Ethical one is more concerned with the emotionality of the situation, the emotional exchange and heightened experience of that. All of those "kinky add-ons" (e.g plugs, handcuffs etc.) are not conducive to reaching the main goal, they are better for creating more emotional intimacy. That's likely why most Logical types would find them unnecessary. That's not their main mode of operation, basically.
That's probably why a Logical type needs an Ethical one in bed (in a relationship), because otherwise the emotional intimacy won't be reached and it's like sex between two humanoid robots (after a while).

Well, "needs" is a strong word, no one said the logical type must be aware of what they're missing or that they even need this. I've seen many logical types who were like this. I think need for intimacy also depends on attachment style, which is a factor outside socionics.

[poops magoops]

That's interesting. Do you feel like you are the Fe subtype?

Personally, I couldn't be with my Beneficiary, and only with an Illusionary if their Ti subtype was strong.
Mainly because I am deeply irritated by the Childlike romance style. It just does not work for me at all.
Being a strong Ni subtype, I need someone to be more Aggressor. I need someone to be direct, pro-active, both romantically and lifestyle-wise in general.
I am way too passive myself. The Se of men gives me more reassurance; it reflects positively on me. If it is directed at me positively, it makes me feel more appreciated.
Ne, on the other hand, can sometimes make me feel insulted somehow. As if I was not taking seriously as a person, a woman.

Having said that, many years ago when I was a pre-teen up to my early teens, I used to be less strong Ni subtype, perhaps even close to the Fe subtype. Around that time, Gamma SF guys could not impress me too much. And yes, I could feel irritated by that "eagerness" ESFx people tend to present when engaging with someone.

Generally, subtype plays quite a role when it comes to what relation you'd prefer; especially if it is a pronounced subtype.

This is all so true. IEIs I have been attracted to (every single one I have ever met of course) think that I am not volitional enough, and am not aggressive enough to arouse interest. But I am married to an IEI with a strong Fe who appreciates my Creative Ti. Oh, and Mirage is my answer to the thread!

[darya]

Darya, are you trying to say you have never managed to fall in love with T types after having initial attraction? Only F types?

No, I have, once with an ILI. It was such an emotional disaster I wouldn't dare date another ILI even if I really liked them (or SLI for that matter, just to be safe - Fe PoLR are terrible people : P)

Otherwise I could see myself in a relationship with LII/LSI, they have a certain smarty adorableness to them, or ,xLE-Ti. Idk, for some reason I always have a bunch of ethical men around me, from school (liberal arts college), to work (social work), so it's also probably numbers game. I've literally never been in the same circle of friends with a Beta ST : o

OT, but my bf is SEE-Fi 6w7 and I've really expanded my view on SEE's with him, as I've always had a quite narrow look on this type (more in line with very Se heavy subtypes probably), but he's like two people in one person. He goes from this goofy, sweet, laughing out loud jokester to a very serious, nitpicky, pushy and critical, almost LSI-ish guy when he's in a bad mood or worried, and then jumps back just as quickly. So I discovered I like this contrast in him very much and SEE's are probably often misunderstood as being always chipper and shallow.





,

[Olimpia]

No, I have, once with an ILI. It was such an emotional disaster I wouldn't dare date another ILI even if I really liked them (or SLI for that matter, just to be safe - Fe PoLR are terrible people : P)

Otherwise I could see myself in a relationship with LII/LSI, they have a certain smarty adorableness to them, or ,xLE-Ti. Idk, for some reason I always have a bunch of ethical men around me, from school (liberal arts college), to work (social work), so it's also probably numbers game. I've literally never been in the same circle of friends with a Beta ST : o

OT, but my bf is SEE-Fi 6w7 and I've really expanded my view on SEE's with him, as I've always had a quite narrow look on this type (more in line with very Se heavy subtypes probably), but he's like two people in one person. He goes from this goofy, sweet, laughing out loud jokester to a very serious, nitpicky, pushy and critical, almost LSI-ish guy when he's in a bad mood or worried, and then jumps back just as quickly. So I discovered I like this contrast in him very much and SEE's are probably often misunderstood as being always chipper and shallow.

I'm just curious: What are the types of your parents?
I like analyzing the correlations between the romantic partner's type and the type of a parent. I often observe some kind of correlation.
As in, could it be one of your parents or close caretakers is/was Gamma?

[darya]

I'm just curious: What are the types of your parents?
I like analyzing the correlations between the romantic partner's type and the type of a parent. I often observe some kind of correlation.
As in, could it be one of your parents or close caretakers is/was Gamma?

Nope, both Beta . ) . Mum is EIE and dad LSI. My grandparents on mom's side were LIE and ESI, both had a big impact on my upbringing - especially compared to the other side of the family. Almost all the other extended family is Ne/Si.

[Olimpia]

This is all so true. IEIs I have been attracted to (every single one I have ever met of course) think that I am not volitional enough, and am not aggressive enough to arouse interest. But I am married to an IEI with a strong Fe who appreciates my Creative Ti. Oh, and Mirage is my answer to the thread!

I see.
I have noticed that people tend to (preferably) go for someone who compliments their subtype. IEI-Fe with ILE is rather common, so is IEI-Fe with LII-Ti, etc. The Fe subtype will naturally seek out Logical types over Ethical ones. IME, Ni subtypes tend to either go for someone who is also Ni, or Se subtype. As in, most people in long-term relationships are with someone of the same or complimentary subtype. For instance, my parents have been married for decades and are both Si subtype (LSE-Si with ESE-Si).

There is the general assumption that Logical and Ethical types attract and require each other to function harmoniously. I am not doubting that per se, though one's subtype can skew that, in the sense that Irrational subtypes will not experience such a particular pull towards either the Logical or Ethical leading type, except for a couple of people who are L/E leads themselves. (Like my parents. And I know of an LIE-Ni who dislikes dating Logical women.) Those who lead with either Thinking or Feeling are still more prone to need the F/T balance, less so when their subtype is Irrational; whereas Irrational leads are more open towards F-F or T-T relations in general, especially when their subtype is Irrational.

Aka, it is no surprise I would feel more drawn to SEE opposed to ILE, and less seeking after Logical types, being both Ip temperament and Ni subtype. The types I have been attracted to the most so far in the past have been ESI, IEE, SEE, SLE. Note how the three of the four are Ethical types.

I've grown up with quite a bunch of LSI guys in my youth, and I would enjoy the interaction; we'd be good friends, but there was no particular deeper attraction to any of them. Admittedly, that was before I seriously hit puberty, so that could have been it. As of late, there was one LSI guy I had found attractive in one of my classes, and I enjoy having LSIs around, but it is not so much their Ti that attracts me, but rather their Se. I bet I was mostly attracted to that one particular IEE-Fi guy from the past, because he would showcase his Se Role quite nicely, haha. I was caught in the infamous illusion of Extinguishment relations...

Anyhow, I feel like I have started rambling and going off-topic.

In summary: Obviously, IEI is Se-seeking by definition. Though based on my experiences, IEIs who were Fe subtype usually ended up with a Logical lead (LII or LSI mostly), or ILE, sometimes SLE-Ti (but rather rarely). Whereas IEIs who were Ni subtype ended up with another Ni lead (ILI or IEI), or a Creative Ni type (EIE, less commonly LIE), or an Se lead (SEE or SLE).

I want to suggest that your subtype will likely determine your preference for either F or T types, especially in the circumstance of not finding one's Dual.

Irrational subtype -> Drawn to Irrational temperament (Ip/Ep) and/or Irrational subtype. No particular preference for either F or T (F-F or T-T relation), apart from certain F/T leading types.
Rational subtype -> Drawn to Rational temperament (Ij/Ej) and/or Rational subtype. Preference for either F or T (F-T relation), apart from certain S/N leading types.

[Olimpia]

Nope, both Beta . ) . Mum is EIE and dad LSI.

Wow, did you grow up in bliss? This combination for the parents is supposed to be ideal for the child with one of the same types as them.

Usually, when someone grew up with their Dual, they'll experience less of a need to find a romantic partner who is one, IME.
Do you see that with yourself?

[Myst]

I'm just curious: What are the types of your parents?
I like analyzing the correlations between the romantic partner's type and the type of a parent. I often observe some kind of correlation.
As in, could it be one of your parents or close caretakers is/was Gamma?

I can contribute: my dad was Gamma NT Ni subtype (ILI-Ni or perhaps LIE-Ni though he would have to have been a very depressed LIE if so), my mom's type is ESI-Se. Two real long term relationships for me so far, first one: ESI-Fi, second one: LIE-Ni

And yes, there's some similarity between the ESI ex and my mom, also between the LIE ex and my dad. Crazy really.

All I know for sure is, I don't want history to repeat itself, if I decide to get into a new relationship...

[darya]

Wow, did you grow up in bliss? This combination for the parents is supposed to be ideal for the child with one of the same types as them.

Usually, when someone grew up with their Dual, they'll experience less of a need to find a romantic partner who is one, IME.
Do you see that with yourself?

Haha, I had a happy childhood and we've always been in great relations, but we have fights like every family.

Tbh, my dad is too cranky and worried all the time for me to want a very similar guy. I've never been the one to date similar guys to my father, quite the opposite. But what I've always tremendously respected is his reliability , sort of undying loyalty for his marriage and family, and his male pride to take care of his wife and children - that's something that I want in a guy with whom I'll have children with one day and what I find incredibly sexy. And that's something my current bf shares with him and what makes him a keeper in my mind after a bunch of guys I couldn't really envision a future with. When he says his biggest fear would be that he couldn't take care of his family it really reminds me of my dad (creepy alert : ) Also his life fears are similar (must be the E6 thing)

[Myst]

I've grown up with quite a bunch of LSI guys in my youth, and I would enjoy the interaction; we'd be good friends, but there was no particular deeper attraction to any of them. Admittedly, that was before I seriously hit puberty, so that could have been it. As of late, there was one LSI guy I had found attractive in one of my classes, and I enjoy having LSIs around, but it is not so much their Ti that attracts me, but rather their Se. I bet I was mostly attracted to that one particular IEE-Fi guy from the past, because he would showcase his Se Role quite nicely, haha. I was caught in the infamous illusion of Extinguishment relations...

Hrm, I did try out IEI-Fe in a romantic relationship but something was "off" with it. Something with the Ti/Fe dynamics. I wrote a bit about this in this thread earlier.

I also spent time with IEI-Ni's, though it didn't become romantic because I wasn't into them in that way. Not due to socionics factors. But in general I enjoyed those times very much with IEI-Ni's, the Se/Ni dynamics is great, I could see myself trying a relationship with this subtype... doesn't feel "off" like IEI-Fe.

In summary: Obviously, IEI is Se-seeking by definition. Though based on my experiences, IEIs who were Fe subtype usually ended up with a Logical lead (LII or LSI mostly), or ILE, sometimes SLE-Ti (but rather rarely). Whereas IEIs who were Ni subtype ended up with another Ni lead (ILI or IEI), or a Creative Ni type (EIE, less commonly LIE), or an Se lead (SEE or SLE).

I've seen this myself, LII-Ti with IEI-Fe, though I also saw a couple pairs where it was LII-Ti with EIE-Fe. Why do you think IEI-Fe doesn't often end up with SLE-Ti, more often with ILE?

[Olimpia]

When he says his biggest fear would be that he couldn't take care of his family it really reminds me of my dad (creepy alert : ) Also his life fears are similar (must be the E6 thing)

Do your dad and bf both have E6 as their main type/ wing/ in their tritype?

[Myst]

Haha, I had a happy childhood and we've always been in great relations, but we have fights like every family.

Lol why do you mention that, fights are normal. Total bliss would be boring.

Tbh, my dad is too cranky and worried all the time for me to want a very similar guy. I've never been the one to date similar guys to my father, quite the opposite. But what I've always tremendously respected is his reliability, sort of undying loyalty for his marriage and family, and his male pride to take care of his wife and children - that's something that I want in a guy with whom I'll have children with one day and what I find incredibly sexy. And that's something my current bf shares with him and what makes him a keeper in my mind after a bunch of guys I couldn't really envision a future with. When he says his biggest fear would be that he couldn't take care of his family it really reminds me of my dad (creepy alert : ) Also his life fears are similar (must be the E6 thing)

Being a worrywart is more enneagram related here, I think. I'm not like your dad with that for example. So don't exclude duality just because of that. But if you are happy with the SEE then nevermind anyway

[darya]

Do your dad and bf both have E6 as their main type/ wing/ in their tritype?

Yeah, dad is 6w5 core and my bf 6w7 core. And I said I'm never going to date a 6

Lol why do you mention that, fights are normal. Total bliss would be boring.

Lol I know, I just had to mention total bliss would be overselling it : D

[Olimpia]

... doesn't feel "off" like IEI-Fe.

Did it feel like hanging out with a fake EIE?

Why do you think IEI-Fe doesn't often end up with SLE-Ti, more often with ILE?

Several factors could come into play here.

It seems like Creative subtypes have a greater potential to be internally balanced, given their dual-seeking function is somewhat "boosted". In that manner, they are less likely to seek out someone who displays their Dual-seeking function. Creative subtypes will tend to look for someone that complements their subtype, so the search for the Dual-seeking function is less active.

In the particular case of IEI-Fe: Given that the Fe subtype makes the IEI move more to a Caregiver Romance Style, I could see that also reflected in their willingness to go for an ILE. They share the same preference for Intuition over Sensing, so they will likely have met at a place where they share similar interests on an Intuition basis. Just the chance of meeting and then eloping is greater. This is the case for most types in general – Socionics people have said the trick of Duality is the fact your Dual lives somewhere you rarely go to – but the Creative subtype will be more likely to actually go for that non-Dual person without the Seeking function than the Ego subtype will.

IEI and EIE see themselves as "the prize" that is to be won by the respective and worthy winner of the "dating game". IEI-Ni is the type that will hold to that idea the strongest (being the "purest" Victim type, because Ni lead+Ni subtype+not pseudo-aggressor). Unconsciously looking for someone to resemble their Dual and "win them over correctly", they would be less prone to just allow a Childlike type to do so. They are more likely to think "I could do better/different than this". Whereas the Fe subtype is less attached to that idea.

These are my thoughts on it, partly based on personal experiences and thoughts.

[Olimpia]

Yeah, dad is 6w5 core and my bf 6w7 core. And I said I'm never going to date a 6

Haha! That is actually what I am telling myself. xD
But that's because I don't feel any particular attraction to Type 6s at all. There is no spark on my end. (Except for certain 7w6s perhaps...)

Have you been attracted to E6s consistently in the past?

[darya]

Haha! That is actually what I am telling myself. xD
But that's because I don't feel any particular attraction to Type 6s at all. There is no spark on my end. (Except for certain 7w6s perhaps...)

Have you been attracted to E6s consistently in the past?

No, never. But I've been by far the most attracted to 7w6's, and I thought for quite some time my bf is one. He's very similar in vibe to 7w6 unless he's in a bad mood- just a more reliable and responsible version, He's also an experience junkie, although with a safety belt on ; ) E6 fears sometimes annoy me though, I can't really relate to that line of thinking.

[Olimpia]

E6 fears sometimes annoy me though, I can't really relate to that line of thinking.

Same here, there is no E6 in my tritype (459), so it is a bit weird to me whenever an E6 starts freaking out about something. I often see no point in it.
I find it unlikely for myself to end up with an E6. SLEs can be E6 sometimes, but I think I wouldn't go for that kind of SLE. Rather an E7 SEE instead, haha.

[Myst]

Did it feel like hanging out with a fake EIE?

Lol, actually no. I find there is quite a difference in Ti/Fe dynamics with EIE vs IEI-Fe. Too much difference to just call IEI-Fe's simply fake EIEs

That may be due to my subtype too, tho'.

Several factors could come into play here.

It seems like Creative subtypes have a greater potential to be internally balanced, given their dual-seeking function is somewhat "boosted". In that manner, they are less likely to seek out someone who displays their Dual-seeking function. Creative subtypes will tend to look for someone that complements their subtype, so the search for the Dual-seeking function is less active.

Yeah, I actually relate to that.

Irrational subtype -> Drawn to Irrational temperament (Ip/Ep) and/or Irrational subtype. No particular preference for either F or T (F-F or T-T relation), apart from certain F/T leading types.

I see you added this, which F/T leading types would be the exception here?

I always had this unconscious expectation for at least some minimal Fe expressiveness so I never went for Fe PoLRs or for my Identicals but beyond that I didn't have a problem with T types for initial attraction at least. For longer term relationships, as I said I've not arrived to final conclusions yet though I do have to say that so far duality seemed to show the most promise (just failed to actually start real romantic relationship with duals so far, due to other, non-socionics factors).

(Another word on Fe PoLR and Identicals vs me: for friendship and intellectual talks some ILI's and LSI's seem fine, just not for anything beyond that. So it does look like this is a factor for me. Oh and LII's: the Ni demonstrative with low Se makes them seem interesting sometimes so they fare better in this area, lol)

[darya]

Same here, there is no E6 in my tritype (459), so it is a bit weird to me whenever an E6 starts freaking out about something. I often see no point in it.
I find it unlikely for myself to end up with an E6. SLEs can be E6 sometimes, but I think I wouldn't go for that kind of SLE. Rather an E7 SEE instead, haha.

I feel you, I'm 379, so I have a very "everything is possible" attitude. 7's have always been my kryptonite, but now I for the first time in my life feel like it's nice that I don't have to juggle around to keep my boyfriends attention. The problems with 7's is that they are SOOOOO in love with you at first, but soon they are SOOOO in love with someone else. And they want everybody to know it. Kinda feels shallow, how they can move on so quickly. But you know, your current partner always seems perfect for you - if you date an English guy, suddenly everything about England becomes so fascinating and adorable, and you start loving all English people just because of him, start rooting for an English football team etc. And after you broke op you don't give a shit about plain old England anymore : ) So I currently have much more sympathy for E6's than I had a year ago. I wish you find your very own E7 SLE

[Simo]

I am not sure if dual relations are really special since I can't think of any SEE I know in real life

But from my experience I may go for IEE or beta NFs

IEE: I really enjoy their company but they seem to be more attracted to me than I am attracted to them
for example when I was in university and we had a team project, an IEE would ask me to join their team even though all I do is just criticizing their ideas which is pretty confusing
So do anyone know what might be the cause? or do IEEs just like critics?

as for Beta NFs I would say it is the opposite where I am more attracted to them, which is more normal
However I would say Beta NFs can be more demanding for emotional expression which I don't like about them

[Olimpia]

I see you added this, which F/T leading types would be the exception here?

Those who have a personal attachment to either F/T leads due to reasons outside of Socionics.

[Olimpia]

The problems with 7's is that they are SOOOOO in love with you at first, but soon they are SOOOO in love with someone else. And they want everybody to know it. Kinda feels shallow, how they can move on so quickly.

I have totally experienced that. xD Haha! The struggle is real.

But you know, your current partner always seems perfect for you - if you date an English guy, suddenly everything about England becomes so fascinating and adorable, and you start loving all English people just because of him, start rooting for an English football team etc. And after you broke op you don't give a shit about plain old England anymore : ) So I currently have much more sympathy for E6's than I had a year ago.

So true. xD Hahaha! I've had a tiny crush on a Russian (SLE) dude before, and suddenly I considered learning Russian. Haha! The heart plays tricks on the mind sometimes.
Learning Russian could still be a smart thing to do, given Socionics is very Russian-based...

I wish you find your very own E7 SLE

Haha! I actually find E8 SLE more appealing...
For some reason, I find E8 or E3 can suit an SLE particularly well, it gives them a more grounded or emotionally balanced (enhanced Fe HA) edge.
Whereas E7 SEE seems more balanced, tending to be the one of the really intelligent SEEs with an even greater thirst for knowledge (enhanced Te HA), to the point they can seem to be SLE from afar.

[Olimpia]

I am not sure if dual relations are really special since I can't think of any SEE I know in real life

But from my experience I may go for IEE or beta NFs

IEE: I really enjoy their company but they seem to be more attracted to me than I am attracted to them
for example when I was in university and we had a team project, an IEE would ask me to join their team even though all I do is just criticizing their ideas which is pretty confusing
So do anyone know what might be the cause? or do IEEs just like critics?

as for Beta NFs I would say it is the opposite where I am more attracted to them, which is more normal
However I would say Beta NFs can be more demanding for emotional expression which I don't like about them

You just put into words the thoughts of most ILI people out there, haha!
I have also observed IEE being more obsessed with ILI than vice versa. Could have something to do with you ILIs not being into their Childlike attitude that much, whereas the IEE may think behind your stoic facade is a hidden Caretaker.

[Myst]

You just put into words the thoughts of most ILI people out there, haha!
I have also observed IEE being more obsessed with ILI than vice versa. Could have something to do with you ILIs not being into their Childlike attitude that much, whereas the IEE may think behind your stoic facade is a hidden Caretaker.

I've seen IEE reject ILI-Ni friend romantically, tbh

[Olimpia]

I've seen IEE reject ILI-Ni friend romantically, tbh

What happened?

It seems like from afar, IEE finds ILI cooler than vice versa.
On a closer distance, the opposite happens; ILI likes IEE more.
Just based on my observations.

[Myst]

What happened?

It seems like from afar, IEE finds ILI cooler than vice versa.
On a closer distance, the opposite happens; ILI likes IEE more.
Just based on my observations.

Oh they did get to know each other well before the IEE figured out the ILI-Ni was falling in love with her. Your observations check out here, lol.

[Olimpia]

Oh they did get to know each other well before the IEE figured out the ILI-Ni was falling in love with her. Your observations check out here, lol.

Haha, fair enough.

[Kim]

I feel you, I'm 379, so I have a very "everything is possible" attitude. 7's have always been my kryptonite, but now I for the first time in my life feel like it's nice that I don't have to juggle around to keep my boyfriends attention. The problems with 7's is that they are SOOOOO in love with you at first, but soon they are SOOOO in love with someone else. And they want everybody to know it. Kinda feels shallow, how they can move on so quickly.

I can see how it would, but I think the intensity while 7s are attached is the same as, say, for 4s or 6s, but the coping skills after a break-up are different (pain-avoidance coupled with constant search for new experiences). Since 7s hate dwelling on past negatives, they will necessarily move on quickly. But that doesn't mean that they weren't totally into you before.

As for the "want everyone to know" is really just related to being excitable, which I would consider another 7 trait...OMG OMG ALL THIS EXCITING NEW STUFF MUST TELL THE WOOOOORLLLLLDDDDD.

ILIs are attractive to IEEs for the same reason as SLIs are - they are aloof and pose a challenge.