Yeah, yeah, yeah...
I have recently been pondering the possibility that the saying we do not see things as they are but as we are applies especially strongly to XEEs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
I have recently been pondering the possibility that the saying we do not see things as they are but as we are applies especially strongly to XEEs.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
The main thing is a general lack of organization in their thinking process and/or life.
Another is general obliviousness to the obligations they have towards others, or the rights that others have towards them. They tend to impulsively show favoritism towards/against people and can lack objectivity.leads do this too, but they often try to be objective and fair.
Q: How isPoLR manifested in ENFps and ESFps?
A: We don't like people who are too nerdy and loser-like.
IEE Ne Creative Type
Some) I
!!!!!!
That sounds more likeOriginally Posted by MisterNi
Q: How is
A: We don't like people who are too nerdy and loser-like.
thehotelambush, what makes you think I was talking about you specifically? lol HowThat sounds more like
An IEE(female) song:
IEE Ne Creative Type
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The bolded strikes me as particularly true, unfortunately.The main thing is a general lack of organization in their thinking process and/or life.
Another is general obliviousness to the obligations they have towards others, or the rights that others have towards them. They tend to impulsively show favoritism towards/against people and can lack objectivity.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
I didn't?thehotelambush, what makes you think I was talking about you specifically? lol How
You sure you're not ILI? I heard they're hiring again.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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@Eliza Thomason what do you think of the above?
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
we are not.
In my opinion, thehotelambush is ILI and you are SLI. The both of you must have the hots for an ESE.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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I assume it's annoying for Ti-PoLR people too, b/c they probably meant something very different, and Ti people are picking apart the literal meaning.
(tangent: I sometimes find Gamma SF easier too, probably because I can trace better what they care about and don't.)
Last time I interacted with an LII for a prolonged period of time:
IEE: Could you finish this task for me by 5 today?
LII: ... In how many hours is that?
IEE: What do you mean, it's two in the afternoon, that's 3 hours from now.
LII: .... I ask again, how many hours is that?????
IEE: *hesitating for a bit* Fine, I'll do it myself. Sheesh you're lazy.
LII: ................................. no.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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I love nerdy losersQ: How is
A: We don't like people who are too nerdy and loser-like.
Hm, good point. It beats working with a dumb meathead.I love nerdy losers
Ti-PoLR in the IEE: Hates someone who is a pedant 24/7.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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I think you're on to something, but there still might be more to it. Why? I have a friend that is super meticulous, organized, thorough, detail-oriented, etc. He is extremely precise. He knows every fact, remembers everything you say, even corrects your grammar, if it is a shade off. However, he is not really skilled with logic, analysis, or investigation. Therefore, I don't know if he'd be outstanding as a programmer, scientist, etc. On the other hand, I am really analytical, logical, and scientific. I love formulas, programming books, chemistry theories, and mathematical ideas, and I can really sink my teeth into them. Therefore, I really value Ti, but in a way that is not organized, systematic or meticulous. This makes me really wonder: can you be Ti and not be methodical at all? Or, alternatively, could you be super-methodical and not be Ti? Therefore, all of this makes me believe that socionics is on the right track, but there might be something missing here...The main thing is a general lack of organization in their thinking process and/or life.Another is general obliviousness to the obligations they have towards others, or the rights that others have towards them. They tend to impulsively show favoritism towards/against people and can lack objectivity.
I guess you can be a structured thinker or generally be a structured person without using Ti per se, which is more like linear thinking.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
I don't consider "I have a friend who..." to be a good argument. The only thing I can say is that this is not consistent with my experience of SEEs and IEEs. It's perfectly plausible for an ESI though - I once had an ESI English teacher who was similar, and I think Merrick Garland (the Supreme Court nominee) is also an example of this kind of ESI. The meticulousness you're talking about (which is most characteristic of ESIs and LSIs) is also a function of
I don't think too much about the utility of someone who I'm working with until it becomes a problem. In second year I was lab partners with a SEI and we were both relatively weak in the department of being on top of things and working out what to do. I loved him, but but I became sorely aware of both my deficiencies and his.
In the field of personal interactions... intelligence is a bonus, but when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter if someone is a nerdy loser or a dumb meathead as long as I think they're 1) a good person and 2) I get some form of benefit out of being with them (like I find them fun, interesting, inspiring, relaxing etc). I agree with @thehotelambush; this kind of categorisation and reasoning doesn't seem very Delta to me at first glance. But I do agree that Ti-PoLR in the IEE manifests in hating pedantry. This is how I interpret Ti when it's got me under its radar.
Fwiw, @jason_m's friend sounds a lot like me (or at least, how I was pre-head injury wrt remembering everything; the rest still stands, though I didn't/don't correct non-students' grammar). I used to wonder how it could be that I'm Ti-PoLR but could understand grammar perfectly and explain it to students (and if their first language was Spanish I could usually make it make sense for them by relating or contrasting it if necessary)...I eventually decided it had to do w always being corrected by my mom if my grammar was even a little off, and was probably not socionics-related at all.I don't consider "I have a friend who..." to be a good argument. The only thing I can say is that this is not consistent with my experience of SEEs and IEEs. It's perfectly plausible for an ESI though - I once had an ESI English teacher who was similar, and I think Merrick Garland (the Supreme Court nominee) is also an example of this kind of ESI. The meticulousness you're talking about (which is most characteristic of ESIs and LSIs) is also a function of
Also, I love nerdy people! My husband and I just had dinner w our LII(m)-ESE(f) friends last night, and had a lot of fun...the LII and I go wayyyyyy back, and I have always found his nerdy ways charming.
And XLIs can be plenty nerdy.
I agree
Last edited by SongOfSapphire; 06-02-2016 at 02:46 PM. Reason: correction
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
Yes, for example, you have a conversation about an important issue and use a word with a slightly off shade of meaning. Ti-type calls you out on it although what you meant is perfectly clear. Worse yet, they try to argue that it matters when it clearly doesn't. Such a waste of time and energy.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Lots of ASSumptions there yifflord. Yeah, I don't like Ti pedantry which is why I stated that Ti-PoLR hates Ti pedantry to those who are exclusively pedants and nothing more.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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I'm often guilty of doing that and I am a possible LII. I don't want to omit anything that could potentially be useful and potentially be valuable information towards ones understanding of something. I do try to logically organize that information in some way.The one thing that immediately makes me suspect, but I apreciate logical structure and they seem to ignore it.
I was looking at anheavy, the amount of detail she gave was superfluous and headache inducing.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
LII: Can you explain that symbolically? I'm having trouble understanding your wacky words.
IEE: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!!! I WANNA KILL YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Supervision via Ti-PoLR in a nutshell.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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The one thing that immediately makes me suspect
I was looking at an
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
It's true though, that's a major
IEE Ne Creative Type
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To me, that again would be organized, systematic person with no logical abilities at all, as that is something that takes almost zero logical or intellectual skill to compute... i.e., this:
Last edited by jason_m; 06-03-2016 at 12:10 AM.
It took him 15 minutes to decide to say, "no" too. LMFAO
IEE Ne Creative Type
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I don't even know what symbolic logic would MEAN.
What did I mis-assume? I did assume that you prescribe some meaning to categorisations such as 'nerdy,' 'loser' and 'dumb meathead,' which are in some way important to you.
You added in a quote by niffer. What happens in reality is that even if a person is missing logical abilities; stem cells remember and begin to regrow logical abilities of the mind again. More proof that there's no reason to believe in mystical thinking. Logic, ethics and morals can regrow within a person.
Have you ever spent the day arguing with a self-proclaimed "nerd" while he's trying to convince you that you're homosexual? No? Then be quiet.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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Yikes! I asked for clarification because I couldn't see how I'd apparently offended you. Someone who is insisting on an incorrect interpretation of your sexuality is a douche because they're a douche, not because they're a self-proclaimed nerd. There are plenty of self-proclaimed nerd that aren't going to insist you're gay. There are self-proclaimed nerds that are gay.
No, he's not a douche or gay either. That was a stupid day for all of us. lol
IEE Ne Creative Type
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I would say a lot of the recent examples of IEE/SEE's Ti aren't totally wrong or anything, some are even fair enough examples, just I think they aren't typical of the most mature XEE's.
One other remark: the wall-of-possibilities sounds a little more like Ne on overdrive than Ne with a strong creative. This is more a conceptual point than a "this is my experience" point.
Same.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
My Thank/Like button is currently broken so please consider this a click on the Constructive button.
IEE Ne Creative Type
Some
Most of the examples here read to me like YouTube comments or teenager talk, not just the xEE side but also the thing that supposedly triggers the Ti-polr.
I can't see people with any level of maturity be either that pedantic or that unable to deal with it.
I identify Ti-polr more as an inability to subject myself to anything "inherently given" or "objective system" or "logically infallible"
example; Kants' critique of pure reason establishes a moral rule based on the idea that it's impossible to disagree with it; if you can't make an action apply as a rule to everyone then you should never take the action.
if you steal that would mean everyone could steal and that would abolish ownership. If you kill everyone could kill and life would cease to exist.
now I GET the logic. I just don't agree that it applies since its just a believe, it's an opinion that is elevated to a "higher status" by putting it into a society that values logic as a positive weight to that opinion. I can make people with a kantian moral system admit to having to do horrible things easily which to me devalues the system even though logically correct. (Same btw counts for the other ethic systems, now singling out absolutist ethics because to me it's strongly Ti in origin).
other example;
i get the logic of planning tools like schedules or project plans. I just don't agree that they are more important then my happiness. In the larger "logic" of my life my preferences will precede over external plans or logically "wise" things to do.
why? Because one can live logically or prudently all life long and be unhappy all life long. That makes that person wrong to me.
Maybe I'm not Ti-polr since I don't recognize any of those examples, but then I rarely encounter anyone who can't hold a logical normal conversation and when I do it's obviously IQ/education related rather then type.
For all of us but you, right? lol
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
Me included. The GOP had "defectors" and smuggled some over to us Liberals. Proving once again how hard they're going to lose every election for a while and they're going to lose hard.
IEE Ne Creative Type
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An instance of what I think was Ti-PoLR from my LII friend: we used to write stuff together and when I contradicted myself I felt like he led me around in a circle to try to get me to realise my contradiction on my own instead of pointing it out to me, which isn't bad, but I found it humiliating.
That's only happened once to me and he vowed to never try to be subtle again.
IEE Ne Creative Type
Some
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