Romancing styles: Victim-Aggressor interactions

[redbaron]

That's because you're not a Victim, you're an Aggressor.

sure seems that way to me...

[strrrng]

Hey, by the way, are you still considering LSI as a possibility or do you definitely see yourself as an IEI.

I haven't seriously questioned my type since that time. Not that glimmers of considerations don't find their way into my awareness here and there, but IEI really makes the most fucking sense overall. As far as romantic roles go, well, I tend to think I'm some sort of counter-phobic victim, more or less; and also that the roles can and usually will interchange dynamically with two people of the same quadra.

[redbaron]

I haven't seriously questioned my type since that time. Not that glimmers of considerations don't find their way into my awareness here and there, but IEI really makes the most fucking sense overall. As far as romantic roles go, well, I tend to think I'm some sort of counter-phobic victim, more or less; and also that the roles can and usually will interchange dynamically with two people of the same quadra.

well that's true. Plus you're sx-first.

[betterthan]

I haven't seriously questioned my type since that time. Not that glimmers of considerations don't find their way into my awareness here and there, but IEI really makes the most fucking sense overall. As far as romantic roles go, well, I tend to think I'm some sort of counter-phobic victim, more or less; and also that the roles can and usually will interchange dynamically with two people of the same quadra.

you're completely IEI.

[strrrng]

well that's true. Plus you're sx-first.

forreal

[strrrng]

you're completely IEI.

And you're completely the love of my life.

[Gilly]

Nick is IEI to the core.

TRUST ME

[strrrng]

yes, the world is a nice lego toy, indeed.

[strrrng]

holy shit, it's 5:33pm and I feel like I just woke up. and it's gloomy and depressing outside, which is usually nice but annoying right now because winds howl and flies jump around outside my window. fuck the lord.

[Brilliand]

fuck the lord.

Nah, not calling you on profanity; it's just that that particular exclamation seems rather incongruous with, well, anything. Itself, I guess...

[strrrng]

shall I be banned for my internet desecration?

[Satan]

Nick is IEI to the core.

TRUST ME

because everyone loves to trust a drug addict.

[strrrng]

lmao

[Brilliand]

shall I be banned for my internet desecration?

It's more... how do you fuck God? And assuming you could, can we be sure there would be anything special about it?

[strrrng]

[crazedrat]

joke has officially been strangled to death

because everyone loves to trust a drug addict.

lol

[ArchonAlarion]

I like lefty's romantic style descriptions.

[Ezra]

Yeah fair game, I s'pose I don't know what you're like around women in real life. When I come to the US maybe we can party and we'll see how shit plays out with the honeyz.

[betterthan]

And you're completely the love of my life.

!

[ladyinred]

Ah I think I get it now.

Aggressor: They are not giving me any signals, I will have to keep trying until things are 100% clear.

Victim: They are not giving me any signals, I guess that's it then.

Well ENTJ is actually classified as a pseudo-aggressor/employee or whatever so meh...

_________________________________________

Psuedo-Aggressors/Employee: INTp, ENTj
These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word "victim" - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without "breaking" so to speak.

Aggressors/Employer: ESFp, ISFj
These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the "psuedo-aggressor" type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.

Conquerors: ESTp, ISTj
These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without "breaking."

Challengers/Prize: INFp, ENFj
These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging." They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.

Pseudo-Caregivers/Students: ENFp, INFj
These are types who exhibit paternal/maternal tendencies towards others in their everyday lives and may thus carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. These types habitually attempt to give their partner what he/she "needs" (or what they believe they need). As a result, they may become drained by lack of attendence to their own needs and desires. In a partner, they are searching for a combination of strength and gentleness.

Teachers: ESTj, ISTp
If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension. Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. He is looking for a worthy pupil.

Childlike Types: ENTp, INTj
These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.

Caregivers: ESFj, ISFp
These are those types who openly express their need to "protect" and care for their romantic interest. In conversation may often lend a sympathetic ear (which, depending on the person, may be interpreted as insincerity, but it's exactly what the Child-like type is looking for). They are looking for someone who will not only accept their paternal/maternal tendencies, but welcome and thrive on it.

This is gold!

[jughead]

With Entps and then enfps I am safe, yet at the same time have no power.

[Joy]

Can I have some examples or scenarios to help me understand these two and help me clear some things up.

Prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person.
How can you not know how you feel about someone ?

Because you can see how things could go wrong. Dashboard Confessional line: "I can fail before I even try." The Se response is, "You're going to give up without even trying? Fuck that. Give it a shot and see what happens." (This is from an SLE/IEI perspective though.)

Appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
This sounds a bit warped. I makes me think of dungeons, chains, whips and ball gags.

Eh, in a way it's just a bad translation. The Se (especially with Ti) is on top of every day things. The Ni (especially with Fe) handles the internal things and de-stresses the Se (with Ti) so they are able to focus on their ego block and make it happen.

[Ningyo]

Hahahaha.

Reminds me of a recent convo with my LSI brother.

Me: WHY do we share a room?
him: Because I'm the only one who can get you to vent when you want to kill everyone and then I make you laugh.

[Beautiful sky]

Hahahaha.

Reminds me of a recent convo with my LSI brother.

Me: WHY do we share a room?
him: Because I'm the only one who can get you to vent when you want to kill everyone and then I make you laugh.

Awww that is a sweet jester from your bro...(sorry for the judgement ) That's how I imagine a the portrait of a loving brother to be; very nurturing, caring and yet very much knows how you are like and is able to help you get trough your tough times.

[Beautiful sky]

victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
victim: very quiet, unsure
aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

OMG kill me.
I want it fast and upfront

[Azure Flame]

That's defiantly the stereotype; that the victim is the 'weaker' of the two.

I personally don't put much stock in stereotypes. Or at least try not to.

I have no idea how beta NF's play the whole "I'm the trophy that should be won" mentality. Impossible. Especially being a dude who is expected to make the first move. Chasing is just so much easier for me..

[Ver]

victim: drops some random comment about tears in an email
aggressor: asks directly what the tears were about
victim: says she can't explain but she'll be fine
aggressor: later that week clearly pokes around for the answer
victim: hints but doesn't come out with it. changes the subject.
aggressor: following week asks again what it is and takes a stab at it, talking about his own related experience
victim: thinks this is cute and tells him what it's generally about but with no details. changes the subject.
aggressor: 20 minutes later says he's sorry if it's none of his business but he cares, and continues talking about it.
victim: very quiet, unsure
aggressor: talks more about his own experience and offers a shot at advice
victim: finally opens up, knowing he must care about her to keep pestering!

A nice story But I'm not sure if it applies to victim-aggressor only cause I could easily identify with it, too (the victim part)

[JWC3]

I have no idea how beta NF's play the whole "I'm the trophy that should be won" mentality. Impossible. Especially being a dude who is expected to make the first move. Chasing is just so much easier for me..

Well I wouldn't say they do. I tend to write things with comedic intent at times. That being said I understand the mentality you're speaking of. My biggest criticism of the victim aggressor relationship model is that it sort of instills the notion that there isn't a lot of mutual reciprocity between the two individuals and rather that the aggressor is the primary emotional resource. At least initially. Tactics aside two people really do have to be mutually interested in each other to form a relationship. The aggressor isn't some hunter who can relentlessly and tenaciously pursue the object of their affection with an indefinite lacking of emotional reward. Nor are victims people who, due to some insinuated lacking in ability to be forward in their desires, universally attempt to emotionally toy with the objects they desire.

Yes, socionics is exaggerated to make a point; however on this one I gotta say it just ain't that simple.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I think the dichotomy in victim/aggressor : infantile/caregiver, which is based on perception (Ni/Se:Si/Ne) lies in the idea of where one perceives energy. More commonly, I think it is how and where one perceives threat and benefit.

[Azure Flame]

Yeah, the descriptions kinda suck. I wish they went more in depth.