Discuss LSE and being lazy

[Beautiful sky]

Hm, I don't feel incompatible with him - just the opposite. What do you mean by: why aren't you doing any Si? If I understand you correctly, you ask me whether we connect on Si/Ne. My answer is yes of course, in a lot a lot of ways. When it comes you you saying I'm SEE I know you didn't mean it but it sounded a bit like an accusation to me . I just don't like being around Se leading people for longer periods of time and I wouldn't like to be one.
However, I'm wondering what's your reasoning because it must be based on my vibe or something I've written, or maybe VI? I'm open to answer your questions if you want to retype me However, I highly I doubt I could change my opinion on my typing. There were Times I somehow hoped I was a different type (especially when I was in incompatible relationships) but this one seem to fit the most. And I learned to like it . And I feel it's appreciated in my current relationship - just the way I am - my partner seems to accept or even not notice all of the things I used to hate about myself

His relaxness and laziness driving you nuts is a sign of Si devaluing to me and if the level of it in LSE is bothersome to you the SLI who has more would not work well at all with you. When he's doing his own thing you want him to get up and work which he ignores because he's expecting some physical contact and warmth which you don't seem to provide at that time as you you rself descibed your relationship habits. That and how how you perceive boundaries/territory of your mil gives way to SEE none of these things work well with what IEE and I do with regard to our interactions with Delta ST. IEE and I act and are child like qhen it comes to domestic stuff so seeing this alSE pick up and do things around us or plan on doing them when thwy feel comfortable which both IEE and I are compatible. You instead are willful...you want and you even get angry when he doesn't. You are SEE and final.

[Ver]

His relaxness and laziness driving you nuts is a sign of Si devaluing to me and if the level of it in LSE is bothersome to you the SLI who has more would not work well at all with you. When he's doing his own thing you want him to get up and work which he ignores because he's expecting some physical contact and warmth which you don't seem to provide at that time as you you rself descibed your relationship habits. That and how how you perceive boundaries/territory of your mil gives way to SEE none of these things work well with what IEE and I do with regard to our interactions with Delta ST. IEE and I act and are child like qhen it comes to domestic stuff so seeing this alSE pick up and do things around us or plan on doing them when thwy feel comfortable which both IEE and I are compatible. You instead are willful...you want and you even get angry when he doesn't. You are SEE and final.

Martisa how can you step shoes in my relationship? You don't really know what it is you base it on some internet posts... You are projecting. Or are you looking for someone to argue with? Because I'm not going to,

[Beautiful sky]

Martisa how can you step shoes in my relationship? You don't really know what it is you base it on some internet posts... You are projecting. Or are you looking for someone to argue with? Because I'm not going to,

I'm not looking to argue. I simply looked at your intertype relationship and how you are from what you described and found clear inconsistencies, which you are willing to overlook and ignore and that is that what you describe of your self as not being hyper social is not AN iEE trait as they are and the interaction and how you impose your will on your husband is also inconsistent wilth IEE among other things which are with SEE and so you are that type and incompatible with LSE husband. What do you find inconsistent with benefit relations as described below (if you ever bothered reading it)?

[Ver]

What you are describing with your husband is relations of benefit....

Beneficiary experiences activation in the presence of benefactor, tries to help him, to do something. He understands the needs of his partner very well, but reciprocity exists only in the beginning. Over time the harmony in these relations breaks down for the reason that benefactor is dismissive of the arguments and conclusions of beneficiary, and even tries to impose his own point of view and control his behavior. However, beneficiary feels that it is difficult for him to refuse in anything for such an admirable, authoritative partner. This inequality in future may lead to arguments, at which time the beneficiary will wish to distance from the benefactor.*The benefactor perceives his partner as someone who needs his protection, patronage, and advice. He appeals to the desire of the beneficiary to understand him and help him in difficult situations, but from his point of view the assistance is not effective, thus he involuntarily underestimates the abilities of beneficiary or starts increasing his demands. The benefactor can partially take on the execution of responsibilities/work, but over time he becomes tired on this and loses interest in his partner. Benefactor may feel irritation because he is unable to understand the requests and needs of the beneficiary. Beneficiary, in turn, trying to reach an understanding, can begin to over-dramatize the situation. He feels that the benefactor is not considering his interests and may make attempts to re-educate his partner, but this proves to be useless. The benefactor still does not understand what was wanted of him.The matter can end with break up of relations if the beneficiary does not accept his role and continues finding faults with the benefactor instead of simply helping him accomplish common tasks or projects. Mutual work is what unites this pair, in this case the relationship becomes stimulating and productive.

Actually I'm trying to find something that fits my relationship in here and it's just not this description . That might be easier if I were given a few and were to choose the one that fits most.
We do connect on Si/Ne. We like going to restaurants together, enjoy good food, cherrish these moments, like to stop somewhere to have good coffee, we like cuddling and watching films together, we laugh at silly things, we talk about possibilities, Now we don't have much time for each other because he works a lot and I have to take care of home and our daughter.

In our relationship he's responsible and he provides for us. He doesn't expect me to do that which is something that I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly appreciate.
Also, I'm not an aggressor for sure. I'm totally infantile and if I were to choose - closer to victim than to aggressor.
I'm totally N, totally F and my values are delta not beta.
ENFp or INFj, ENFp fits more.
Also, when it comes to me being less sociable... you should take into account reasons not related to socionics like e.g. being a tired mother, or even some state of mind.
You can type me SEE if you want you have full right to do that. But ...I'm often wondering how you can be so sure of your typings. Firstly, your typing is different than mine and I know myself better. Secondly, you haven't even seen my picture, not to mention see my functioning in real life. I don't post here very often so it's quite difficult. Also, I would never say "final" to someone typing having so little data.

[UDP]

I just wonder how many times we've considered someone who says that they are lazy an Si ego by default.

"We" as in "Maritsa"?

[Airman]

I was told by the great Lord Commander "Notifications" box I`d been quoted on this thread, by mee friend Maritsa, but I wasnt???

[Airman]

His relaxness and laziness driving you nuts is a sign of Si devaluing to me and if the level of it in LSE is bothersome to you the SLI who has more would not work well at all with you.

Allow me to disagree. It may be a sign of Si-devaluing, but also: Te-demanding (basically action-demanding) and or Se-demanding by Ver. Si-valuers also like to act, you can`t narrow it down to ONE possibility, the first that comes to your head, so thank me cause I`m also helping you with your Ne there Maritsa.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Maritsa, I really think she is ENFp. Maybe her guy is not a LSE though. Because I don't see LSEs I know being lazy. Only as lazy as @Pookie says in post #15!

...Also, I'm not an aggressor for sure. I'm totally infantile and if I were to choose - closer to victim than to aggressor.
I'm totally N, totally F and my values are delta not beta.
ENFp or INFj, ENFp fits more....

I recognize that infantile in you and I also know from a previous post or two - when you were telling about an assertive mother-in-law - that you are not an aggressor type. SEEs just don't seem to have a problem knowing something is bothering them and just saying it. They are sure and aware of their feelings and don't see any reason not to be upfront about what they know they think/feel.

ENFp/IEEs tend to keep their feelings inside, at least at first, both because of being cautious not to offend or say the wrong thing and regretting it later, but also not being altogether sure what their feelings mean, and they want to "go inward" and understand them and decide whats wise before saying anything. Usually. I know this of myself and I have seen it in other IEEs. One IEE recently shared of an incident, "...[This bad thing]happened and I turned my back so my panic wouldn't show." I've done the same thing.

I am making the distinction because SEE and IEE are "lookalikes" and this is one of the differences you can look for to tell them apart. SEEs are very direct and you know where you stand with them. I am getting to like this about the SEEs I know, even though sometimes at first its a bit of a shock when they are so upfront.

[Ver]

Hmmm.
What I described about my LSE is just one aspect of him - household chores. Now I think he was brought up in that way. His ESFp mum does everything at home. His ILI father now doesn't work, and she does. She also cooks for him, clean, buys all his clothes etc. She told me that my LSE never even made his bed - she did that all for him.
I grew up with my ESE mother who was constantly critiizing me for the mess and making veeeeeeeeery big fuss about it. She still criticizes me a lot, asking my how I can bring up a child in such a place . The truth is I'm really tryin hard to clean, I feel guilty that I'm not as good as I should. It's not his relaxness that's driving me nuts in that situation it's rather lack of help or rather different stadards that we have. He doesn't care about the home as much as I do because he spend almost all his time at work.
In general he's not lazy at all. He's really hard working, never satisfied with him in 100%. He's a really good manager, he also climbes the career ladder quite fast. The truth is our chid's changed a lot in our relationship. I miss him a lot and we are both missing the time when we were lying in bed all Saturday and our only duty was to walk the dogs
I don't want it to sound that it's bad and I don't like my life as a mother - I do a lot. But it's been 14 months I stay at home, not a single night I slept the whole, we don't have many opportunities to even have sex... and when we do our daughter may interrupt us because she wakes up and cries very often. I love her the most in the world but I've put on 30 kg when pregnant (almost lost already) haven't also gone anywhere without her (maybe a few Times with the dog or to the shop when she stayed with my mum).
I'm just tired and maybe this is what makes me sound as if I wasn't satisfied with my relationship. Maybe I'm a little but I blame it on the situation mostly.
Also, I'm really sure of our typings (99,9%) but I'm open to suggestions of course as I always may be wrong.

[Beautiful sky]

Hmmm.
What I described about my LSE is just one aspect of him - household chores. Now I think he was brought up in that way. His ESFp mum does everything at home. His ILI father now doesn't work, and she does. She also cooks for him, clean, buys all his clothes etc. She told me that my LSE never even made his bed - she did that all for him.
I grew up with my ESE mother who was constantly critiizing me for the mess and making veeeeeeeeery big fuss about it. She still criticizes me a lot, asking my how I can bring up a child in such a place . The truth is I'm really tryin hard to clean, I feel guilty that I'm not as good as I should. It's not his relaxness that's driving me nuts in that situation it's rather lack of help or rather different stadards that we have. He doesn't care about the home as much as I do because he spend almost all his time at work.
In general he's not lazy at all. He's really hard working, never satisfied with him in 100%. He's a really good manager, he also climbes the career ladder quite fast. The truth is our chid's changed a lot in our relationship. I miss him a lot and we are both missing the time when we were lying in bed all Saturday and our only duty was to walk the dogs
I don't want it to sound that it's bad and I don't like my life as a mother - I do a lot. But it's been 14 months I stay at home, not a single night I slept the whole, we don't have many opportunities to even have sex... and when we do our daughter may interrupt us because she wakes up and cries very often. I love her the most in the world but I've put on 30 kg when pregnant (almost lost already) haven't also gone anywhere without her (maybe a few Times with the dog or to the shop when she stayed with my mum).
I'm just tired and maybe this is what makes me sound as if I wasn't satisfied with my relationship. Maybe I'm a little but I blame it on the situation mostly.
Also, I'm really sure of our typings (99,9%) but I'm open to suggestions of course as I always may be wrong.

You need to have a talk with your husband, Ver. Very few things can be resolved without good communication and trying to be on the same page. Try to express your concerns and goals without taking an accusatory tone and using the "you" word. Try to say things like "honey, I feel tired and drained because I'm doing these things when I would like to relax with you. It would be productive if we could do them then and I will have time for the two of us." If an LSE can picture it then you'll get the results that you want but generally they will do things to please you if they know what that is and they will be productive if they shown appreciation.

[Beautiful sky]

OR, you can do what I do Vet. I have a way with silent communication wiyh my dual. When I'm dissatisfied or mad I keep dead silent and I don't say a thing. He notices this right away and can track what he's done that's upset me and he'll say it..."you're mad because i didn't xyz, right?" In which case I will say, "I'm not mad honey I just want it fixed." He'll not do it again and we are all set. Problems are very easily resolved in duality.

[Airman]

Getting somewhat off the Counseling and Advice here, I'd like to say the following about this to Ver: consider SLI for your husband as well. And not only Te subtype, but also and foremost the Si subtype. I say this based on my own self-analysis (I fit perfectly Gulenko's and others' description of Si-ISTp) so it took me long to decide, and I'm still unsure as to LSE or SLI for me. These types are easy to mistake, the Si-ESTj is very much similar, can be diplomatic, need loads of rest, etc. And also from what I've been observing. The Introvert vs Extrovert dichotomy in Socionics has little to do with behavior (this is one of the flaws in socionics imo ppl tend to confuse types owing to this particular variant).

[Joy]

@Ver, you're doing great! First of all, unless there are choke hazards and rotten food laying around in areas that are supposed to be child proofed (or piles of things that are fire hazards), you're not hurting your baby by failing to keep the house perfect. Once he/she is old enough to develop ideas about how chores are managed then you there's something to be said for keeping on top of chores at least to some extent, but even then there are more important things in life. Just because cleanliness is that important to your mom doesn't mean it's that important just in general.

Secondly, does this guy expect you to do most of the cleaning on your own? Fuck that! I'm also an LSE who would rather relax than clean most of the time when I'm not working, but I have NO gender expectations about who should do chores!!! One time I was with a guy who did most of the chores because that was our deal: I worked and he cleaned. That's different though because it was a fair division of labor and something we'd both agreed to.

Lastly, taking care of a baby/small child is A LOT of work. Cut yourself some slack. Now, if keeping things cleaner is important to YOU (not your mom), then there's gotta be a way to communicate this to your SO and make chores more of a team effort. If he pretty much just refuses, then maybe it's time to rethink the relationship.

[marooned]

I'm not looking to argue. I simply looked at your intertype relationship and how you are from what you described and found clear inconsistencies, which you are willing to overlook and ignore and that is that what you describe of your self as not being hyper social is not AN iEE trait as they are and

so someone can't be IEE on account of "not being hyper social," but can be SEE?

[Beautiful sky]

so someone can't be IEE on account of "not being hyper social," but can be SEE?

Yes. Thinking about that a little further you will see why that is. Being hypersocial allows IEE to meet new and interesting people which is very much the combination of their social functions that being perception of new possibilities and in relationships. This is further clarified and illuminated in intertype relationship and dynamic for instance in activity relations an LSE is comfortable with old relationships because old friends are like old wine, so to say and new ones that IEE bring around are intriguing and activate new possibilities for LSE who otherwise fall into routine.

[marooned]

Yes. Thinking about that a little further you will see why that is. Being hypersocial allows IEE to meet new and interesting people which is very much the combination of their social functions that being perception of new possibilities and in relationships. This is further clarified and illuminated in intertype relationship and dynamic for instance in activity relations an LSE is comfortable with old relationships because old friends are like old wine, so to say and new ones that IEE bring around are intriguing and activate new possibilities for LSE who otherwise fall into routine.

i just find it amusing since SEE is one of the most stereotypically social types in the socion. "you're not a flaming extrovert so you just *can't* be IEE... but you *can* be SEE." too funny.

[Beautiful sky]

i just find it amusing since SEE is one of the most stereotypically social types in the socion. "you're not a flaming extrovert so you just *can't* be IEE... but you *can* be SEE." too funny.

It's not about being a flaming extravert. Both are extravert. She's just not hyper social. SEE may be hyper active

[Ver]

@Ver, you're doing great! First of all, unless there are choke hazards and rotten food laying around in areas that are supposed to be child proofed (or piles of things that are fire hazards), you're not hurting your baby by failing to keep the house perfect. Once he/she is old enough to develop ideas about how chores are managed then you there's something to be said for keeping on top of chores at least to some extent, but even then there are more important things in life. Just because cleanliness is that important to your mom doesn't mean it's that important just in general.

Secondly, does this guy expect you to do most of the cleaning on your own? Fuck that! I'm also an LSE who would rather relax than clean most of the time when I'm not working, but I have NO gender expectations about who should do chores!!! One time I was with a guy who did most of the chores because that was our deal: I worked and he cleaned. That's different though because it was a fair division of labor and something we'd both agreed to.

Lastly, taking care of a baby/small child is A LOT of work. Cut yourself some slack. Now, if keeping things cleaner is important to YOU (not your mom), then there's gotta be a way to communicate this to your SO and make chores more of a team effort. If he pretty much just refuses, then maybe it's time to rethink the relationship.

Thank you Joy <3
Believe me, cleanliness isn't the most important thing for me. Probably it's my mum....she happens to spend a lot of time with us now and she's really really critical of me - when it comes to everything but keeping things clean is the first on her list. But she's very unhealthy....probably becuase of her relationship with my ILI father as well (they are conflictors),
When it comes to my partner he doesn't have any gender expectations about the chores, I haven't asked him but I don't feel that's the case. Actually he does clean his case is not that extreme but he's also very messy, our daughter is messy, our dog too and so am I . So we all end up living in a constant state of mess. He's a very calm and relaxed and cuddlesome creature he just wants peace and rest at home.
I know people keep saying taking care od a small child is a lot of work. According to my mum I'm doing nothing all day...too much sleep, too little cleaning. But she treats herself even worse - she's a workaholic both at work and at home

[Ver]

Getting somewhat off the Counseling and Advice here, I'd like to say the following about this to Ver: consider SLI for your husband as well. And not only Te subtype, but also and foremost the Si subtype. I say this based on my own self-analysis (I fit perfectly Gulenko's and others' description of Si-ISTp) so it took me long to decide, and I'm still unsure as to LSE or SLI for me. These types are easy to mistake, the Si-ESTj is very much similar, can be diplomatic, need loads of rest, etc. And also from what I've been observing. The Introvert vs Extrovert dichotomy in Socionics has little to do with behavior (this is one of the flaws in socionics imo ppl tend to confuse types owing to this particular variant).

Thanks! Actually he was very difficult for me to type. I was pretty sure he was irrational at first. It wasn't until we got together and spent some time on holiday that LSE came to my mind. He's different than LSE Te types I know, subtype makes quite a big change in overal vibe. He could be SLI as well but taking into consideration polr - he seems Ni polr. not Fe one.
Is that you in that photo? You do vibe similar to him

[Ver]

Yes. Thinking about that a little further you will see why that is. Being hypersocial allows IEE to meet new and interesting people which is very much the combination of their social functions that being perception of new possibilities and in relationships. This is further clarified and illuminated in intertype relationship and dynamic for instance in activity relations an LSE is comfortable with old relationships because old friends are like old wine, so to say and new ones that IEE bring around are intriguing and activate new possibilities for LSE who otherwise fall into routine.

Sometimes I think Martisa you are trying to make people fit the descriptions, not the opposite. Does it make any sense?

I know that's socionics forum but once people get to know this theory, they try to attribute everything to it.

Just hypothetically: if the person's type doesn't change throughout his whole life and let's say this person goes through different periods in his life - sometimes wants more time for reflection, sometimes becomes more outgoing. This can be all caused by so many external factors e.g. hormones, getting older, different relaionships, depression, problems, being tired. You can't expect a person to be exactly the same all the time under different circumstances.

Also, when it comes to me being outgoing. Now I'm not hypersocial at all, I wouldn't even call myself social. If that's a proof enough for being SEE... following that logic, maybe ISFj or INTp would be a better fit ?

People of the same type can be so much different! I have two ILIs to compare - my father and my fahter in law. They are of similar age. My f. is exremely neurotic. my fil is totally laid back. My f. is very intellectual, loves science and solving riddles. My fil isn't intellectual at all, not to mention abstract. My f. is artistic, my fil is nothing but artistic. My f. is thin, my fil is fat.
I could go on and on.

[Airman]

Thanks! Actually he was very difficult for me to type. I was pretty sure he was irrational at first. It wasn't until we got together and spent some time on holiday that LSE came to my mind. He's different than LSE Te types I know, subtype makes quite a big change in overal vibe. He could be SLI as well but taking into consideration polr - he seems Ni polr. not Fe one.
Is that you in that photo? You do vibe similar to him

Yea it's me in the avatar picture here. Well I do VI more as SLI than as LSE. You could also think about the subtypes DCNH... My Te is too strong though for me to consider SLI a serious option.

[Joy]

@Ver, perhaps he's an H subtype? C or H for sure. (EP or IP)

It sounds like you're dealing with a stressful situation reasonably well.

And YES children are TONS of work. When I clean my house it stays clean for maybe ten minutes. Usually it looks like it's literally been ransacked, like someone tossed the place looking for something. I figure though that a happy life is simply a series of happy moments, and kids grow SOOOOOOO fast. When I'm not working I'd rather cherish moments with my kids than fuss about keeping the house "company ready" at all times. Ideally I'd like for my house to generally be an hour from company ready. Usually it's a few hours from company ready. Eh well. Life is short.

Have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bP0Uf3Shd0

[Joy]

Yea it's me in the avatar picture here. Well I do VI more as SLI than as LSE. You could also think about the subtypes DCNH... My Te is too strong though for me to consider SLI a serious option.

Ti or Se ignoring? Sometimes when it's tough to decide between mirrors this is a good way to figure it out. In my case Fe vs. Ni Role is more obvious, plus I need Fi like a fish needs water.

[Airman]

@ Joy : How do YOU difference between Ti and Se as ignoring function? For me it's about not liking to use the IE, making fun of it, not trusting Ti. I think people who have Ti on Egoblock are way too theoretical and they always go by fitting something in a general label. They cannot think of something as a separate case, with different variables, unless they have Ne on Egoblock too. For me using Se is fine and I like it, but using Ti seems just stupid. Always trying to fit something in a general system without considering the individual variables of the 'thing' and the exceptions where the 'system' will not work.

[Beautiful sky]

Sometimes I think Martisa you are trying to make people fit the descriptions, not the opposite. Does it make any sense?

I know that's socionics forum but once people get to know this theory, they try to attribute everything to it.

Just hypothetically: if the person's type doesn't change throughout his whole life and let's say this person goes through different periods in his life - sometimes wants more time for reflection, sometimes becomes more outgoing. This can be all caused by so many external factors e.g. hormones, getting older, different relaionships, depression, problems, being tired. You can't expect a person to be exactly the same all the time under different circumstances.

Also, when it comes to me being outgoing. Now I'm not hypersocial at all, I wouldn't even call myself social. If that's a proof enough for being SEE... following that logic, maybe ISFj or INTp would be a better fit ?

People of the same type can be so much different! I have two ILIs to compare - my father and my fahter in law. They are of similar age. My f. is exremely neurotic. my fil is totally laid back. My f. is very intellectual, loves science and solving riddles. My fil isn't intellectual at all, not to mention abstract. My f. is artistic, my fil is nothing but artistic. My f. is thin, my fil is fat.
I could go on and on.

I'll honor my frien @Eliza Thomason typing of you Ver. I wanted to ask what you thought about my advice on letting your husband dictate and have control over things. Was any of my advice helpful?

[golden]

I most agree with what @William wrote about beer. It gets at how the LSEs in my life sometimes decide to be lazy, it's like another to-do they've blocked in. Flourish: "And now, it's time to relax." But they might not tell you they've internally allotted themselves this lazy time, so you don't know they're on lazy time and that nothing else can interfere with that plan. They can seem really stubborn and selfish then if you don't understand how they're thinking.

[Beautiful sky]

I most agree with what @William wrote about beer. It gets at how the LSEs in my life sometimes decide to be lazy, it's like another to-do they've blocked in. Flourish: "And now, it's time to relax." But they might not tell you they've internally allotted themselves this lazy time, so you don't know they're on lazy time and that nothing else can interfere with that plan. They can seem really stubborn and selfish then if you don't understand how they're thinking.

Yes That's true. Bf says "I'm on vacation and I'm relaxing" and you know not to request for work. But when he's up hell say he's working. However there are also times when he'll do it and not say what it's about however his body language says it all. When he's on the bed means hes tired and wants tk nap or cuddle and make love that means don't get in his face and get bitchy. EP Types do get bitch because they don't recognize compartmentalization Ej linear thinking and they just get up and do things