this post is just so fucking meta it blows my mindOriginally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
this post is just so fucking meta it blows my mind
Completely undeserved arrogance. It's the worst. It's like you can tell they think they are the shit so hard, and even when its kind of subtle its just so obviously rooted in unconscious entitlement that I want to fucking kick their teeth in.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
LOL! Gotta love self effacing humor.
Wait, did you just call me a maladjusted loser with no social skills? Because you'd be... kind of right.
Easy Day
Funny that, you've written a good description of an EIE 3w4 sx/so that I know irl, I have no sympathy left for her anymore.
Yeah I know and I can see it in myself, there is a level of arrogance in myself that I still haven't quite whittled away at, and its pretty deep, lol.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Well, I doubt she'll ever be as self-awaresocionics and the enneagram explain alot about ourselves that we wouldn't have been aware of otherwise.
Lol and the thing about 3s is that there is a kind of constant mind-game going on in the heads of 3s, not really an exhaustive stream of consciousness like you would expect from a head triad type, but more of a series of internal reactions based on learned behavior and values, and our behavior is so emotionally instinctive on some level that there is something really almost violent about seeing the 3 fixation verbalized and "confessed to." 3s who aren't self-aware are really living a constant lie in rationalization of a particular fixation which they project onto each and every instance of when the boundaries of these self-beliefs can be relevant, a kind of constantly paranoia, only with ego space, but in a sense they have become completely calloused to it, and thus unaware of its root. This is why they disintegrate to 9: they become mechanical in a way, reacting only to social expectations and thereby losing power over themselves, "going with the flow" in the worst way, just apathetic about other people because they have devolved so far from their actualized selves that all they can hold onto is the self-image. It's pretty pathetic to see; in retrospect, at my low points of this kind of behavior, I was really just lonely even in a room full of people, not lonely but just numb in a way, not caring, wondering why I wasted time with these stupid, useless people who were so inferior to me, and yet behind the curtains, I was the one wallowing in my own pit of self-loathing from not living up to what I had unwittingly chosen to exemplify.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
For me, even the first few times people tried to tell me I was a 3, I kind of just deflected and didn't really consider it because it seemed so far off base. But once I considered it for more than a second, and realized the real underlying mechanism of the type went a lot deeper than just wanting to be liked, but rather to be seen in a very specific light based on external influences that one saw as valuable or desirable and kind of "absorbed" as object attachment types tend to do.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Currently I'm so inebriated that I'd rather spare you from all the unimaginative countering complimentary arguments I have in my mind right now.
Wait, did you just call me a maladjusted loser with no social skills? Because you'd be... kind of right.
But I consider myself quantitatively similar so I'd admit the nerdyness I possess as well.
..But yeah we are nerds..
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
I don't hate anything tbh. These are some responses identicals usually arouse ..in me anyway:
Embarrassment for them (odd i know).
Hypocritical annoyance toward weaknesses
Intellectual concordance (alot of "me too!" kind of moments).
Some feelings of competition, for those who are doing better than me. Not much of an urge to copy them though.Benign envy/ admiration is more something I feel for benefactors.
Sympathy.. there's one homeless man I know that collects cans to sell. I'm sure he's IEI I've been observing him for a long time on my daily walks. I feel for him.
Difficulty with standing up for themselves.
Sometimes flaky with people.
Often have trouble allowing/getting themselves to be taken seriously.
Difficulty achieving things in the world.
...seriously though I was doing some stuff for this woman at work, and thinking "why is she so incompetent and a spaz??" and then realized that she was SEI. Haha.
Yeah pretty much.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Yes, one thing I noticed is that LSE's tend to group together.
ah yes I hate esoteric bullshit too. But mostly these are ILI-Ni's I think?
I'm currently working with an ILI (I think -Te) guy. He's really kind and helpfull, but I can also see how not though he is, a true 'victim'. But I can't say I hate anything about him, I wish I had more of these co-workers.
One fun thing about him is that he really don't gives a fucking shit how much goes wrong. He also once said, as long as nobody dies, there's nothing to worry about. His boss said to me, I have told him a 100 times he must make less mistakes, but it just doesn't impress him. :-)
i don't "hate" these things about IEIs, and not all of them are like this, but these things can be annoying sometimes:
- they often believe in the mystical and esoteric (like what Gravolez said about ILIs). they'll often gravitate towards such explanations instead of ones that are actually logical, lol
- can be very superficial and airheaded (e.g. Kim Kardashian). they may still be attractive people with good personalities, but i don't usually have much to talk about with them.
- males often try hard to look & talk tough; i generally find it unimpressively overcompensatory.
Well, we feel a sort of comradely. Like we're inherently on the same team. Don't you feel that with your identicals?
Sometimes my identical is boring. I don't mean like a socionics "We provide each other all the information we can supply ourselves" kind of boring, I mean sometimes they're more interested in say purses than stuff like physics.
Easy Day
Yes and no. Cannot really explain it talking with ILI's is not that fun, usually I already know all their stuff and they know my stuff. LSE's tend to like to share their private lives, that's not really something ILI's have fun with. Maybe the answer is that ILI's simply aren't group people, and LSE's are.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I can often read the mind of my identical, even when I don't know them that well. It's kind of cool, mildly disconcerting and eventually boring.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Looks like I'm one of those weird LSE people that doesn't appreciate antagonistic groups at all. And I'm quite discerning whom I share private stuff with.
I don't understand how you can "hate" anything about identical types. You might hate some things that people you've typed as your identicals have done, but the behaviors would have to be irrelevant to the function itself. The degree to which the behavior is relevant to the functions in question is the degree to which you will have a typologically relevant relationship. Otherwise, you're just talking about irrelevancies. It may be that you are selecting behaviors relevant to a neurotic or quasi-neurotic type, but then the behavior has a quality that is universally frowned upon.
How can I "hate" extraverted intuition and introverted thinking when they remain non-neurotic? If they become neurotic, then the quality of neurosis will appear to me (as it will universally) to be the unsatisfactory element of the behavior, but this doesn't seem particularly noteworthy.
The thread has its merits nonetheless, as it reveals interesting things about all of you
jk, I'm not paying attention. Carry on.
The things i don't like about my Identicals tend be the differences between us. Usually in regards to character traits that i find weak, or distasteful.
My identicals can be Hypocrites, looking at the world and complaining about it's faults whilst contributing to them unknowingly. My identicals can be shallow, so concerned with keeping relations in good terms on the surface that they end up ruining those relations on a deeper level by attempting a juggling act between their wants and the expectations of others. My identicals can be spineless, backing away from confrontation and in doing so, allowing the worst possible result just to quell their anxiety.
I believe someone once said that the things that bother us most are the traits that we can see in ourselves. And i can see the shadows of all those traits in my behavior. But i've worked very hard in overcoming those shortcomings, as the long term effects of those behaviors are destructive to one and one's surroundings. So Ultimately i guess the things i hate about my identical are the things i've overcome within myself. I hate that they haven't, more than i hate anything else about them.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Yes people with the same type will exhibit similar patterns of behavior. What I'm saying is that these patterns are pretty... independent of specific behaviors and any behaviors they do generate are heavily modified by context. Ne for instance is not "talking about possibilities" or "being flighty" because any type in some particular context could exhibit that behavior. Ne is not this or that behavior, It is Ne, with peculiarities all of it's own. That is the important point I'm trying to make. So, listing various behaviors is not valid because their relation to Ne is so heavily dependent on context. If you were to describe "pure" Ne behavior, you'd basically just be describing the workings of the function itself, which you could then imagine being inserted into a variety of contexts to deduct how the situation would play out, but listing any single behavior pattern without reference to context is invalid as it could have also been generated by a different type had the context been different.
You could argue that types may seek out particular contexts to behave within and therefore will exhibit a behavior-context relationship that maps to the workings of particular functions. I would accept that view, but still, so much of the context of these anecdotes goes unwritten.
If you were to accurately map a behavior-context relationship to a particular function, then it seems hard to believe that an identical type would find the function itself as disagreeable. They may dislike the behavior, but the fact that it was determined by their identical functions would be preferable to having been determined by alien functions. Unless, of course as I said, the functional use in question had become neurotic in which i would make the case that the types are not exactly identical, as the qualities of the functional type itself has been altered, (i.e. the use of the functions has become neurotic, overblown, subsumed the ego, repressed the super-id functions, etc.).
I meant specifically type related neuroticism, the kind which comes about through over-reliance on the dominant function or occasionally the auxiliary. Although this sort of neuroticism is a continuum, at a certain distance down the line, the level will appear to be discrete and distinct. Generally, people are well balanced and deviations exponential. That idea is mostly subjective bullshit on my part as of now, so I do concede the point.
I would not say that I'm invalidating neurotic forms of a type from the system of inter-type relationships, just modifying accordingly.
I have met an suspected LSI. We were discussing mobile phones and he annoys me with overly detail comparison of the different display technologies. Worse is I already fully understand that topic and I can clearly see where he will go with his explanation and can predict words he will say next. I guess it is competition.
Or Maybe we just read the same stuff.
Haha. Maybe you can upgrade each other's knowledge.
BTW, is OLED making it's way into mobile phones? I think they'll make great TV and computer monitor panels, hopefully coming down in price once they start mass-producing them.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I think competition in the strengths is the key when it comes to hating your identical.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
For sure, there was quite a bit of knowledge transfer going on. It got a little awkward, but it did happen.
I have high hopes for OLED. Let's hope they can make it happen.
I like my IEE identicals as friends, but whenever we have to do some task together, I find it hard to count on their professionalism. They are too independent, and too flaky, they tend to make a show of cooperation which they actually don't believe in. Also I get bored in their company after a while.
There are some gender differences though. Female IEEs are great fun in my experience, more sociable, more easy going. Male IEEs seem to try to be LSEs when in a position of any responsibility, but they can't pull it off, they come across as childish and inconsistently aggressive.
Hkkmr
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
that they´re different from me as heaven from earth
-Too much of an emphasis on political correctness, diplomacy towards everyone and ideals that strike me as impractical. It isn't a bad thing, just a discrepancy between me and a few of them.
-Make too many assumptions about people's motivations. Can sometimes go out of their way to 'understand' someone by trying to prod something out of them, when they're really just being patronizing. This isn't something that I've directly experienced with ENFp's--in many cases, their assumptions are accurate and helpful--but I can think of a couple examples where an ENFp interviewing someone of a different type has come off this way. It's something that I'd personally avoid doing. It's even worse when there's some sort of liberal/PC agenda behind it.
Last edited by suedehead; 05-01-2014 at 07:14 PM.
Except that you aren't one of them, and political correctness is waaaaay more emphasized in Fe/Ti quadras.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
i.e. "What do I hate about myself?"
that I'm too self-defeating and that externally, I'm far too stuck-in-a-rut and unwilling to change my ways in regards...becoming more external
if I was with identicals...a pack...that would be a fine thing, that would probably minimise such problems. But otherwise, things would never be too proactive in the Real World.
Count me in... in your pack... of Real World Identicals.i.e. "What do I hate about myself?"
that I'm too self-defeating and that externally, I'm far too stuck-in-a-rut and unwilling to change my ways in regards...becoming more external
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Hmm. I don't really relate anymore to my previous post from two years ago lol.
I would say that something I dislike is that I've noticed that SEI's can be dutiful, while still not being very efficient. This leads them to spend more time than necessary doing productive activities that they need to "get done" and it cuts into time for their personal life and interests. I had one SEI friend in grad school who spent all of his time on student stuff and never went partying, however he was doing it extremely slowly and often seemed to actually spend much of that time watching youtube videos of glee. Etc. Lol.
I know I'm like this all the time too. ;___;
(maybe it differs from person to person...?)
We have different things in mind them. Betas, for example, seem more forthright.
I would have to disagree... either with your statement about forthrightness or with my own self-typing.
And since Te is the most factually transparent, efficiency-seeking, clarity-providing, resource-saving/optimizing, "lay your cards on the table" information element, I'd have to go with the former.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Makes more sense now. I feel I've mellowed out and become more diplomatic with age though.
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