SEE & being a "serious" Gamma

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

I know this is off topic, but my own conscience isn't going to let me leave this post this way, as I think it is unfair/dishonest, which is bugging me a lot. I would feel guilty if I did not accurately depict myself (making myself sound better than I am) or give my bf the credit he deserves.

...had this open in a tab as I was closing my open ones. Thought I sent it.

Yeah, my dad had me cut off from friends/family myself, as well, for control/manipulation reasons. He basically instilled trust issues ever since I was little.

I admit, I have some trust issues with my partner. It's because I didn't know what love was when I was younger, and I was super idealistic and naive, and I got cheated on and fucked over a lot. Psychology resources explain that this is common from abusive childhoods; basically, you never received love from parental figures, then you go seeking out the familiar. I handle my trust issues OK for a messed up person. I start therapy this Wednesday (super thrilled, I finally found a therapist I think I like). My bf is aware of my struggles, I'm very open with him about my feelings, fears, insecurities, and so on. I don't go trying to do this or that controlling thing, I just talk about how I feel, why, etc. I understand that I am just healing from a rough past. He's always loving and understanding about it, and comforts me.

After further thought, I feel like this is a dishonest representation. Not intentionally, but I feel the need to add now that I thought more: I can at times be guilty of making false accusations and starting conflicts because of it. I've also made him look bad by saying my thoughts (which turned out to be false accusations that tunnel vision fear made me think were true temporarily) publicly before. So yeah, I do have issues with it, but thankfully, my bf is forgiving and tolerant because of my experiences and the fact that it's unintended...well, and the fact that I see that I'm wrong and am striving to work through it.

[Ave]

I understand that you meant no harm by sharing the conclusion you arrived at, Vis, but it rubbed Uncle Ave the wrong way, because you essentially implied with this that you know him better, than that he knows himself, without ever having spoken with him vis-à-vis.

Moreover, I contest Uncle Ave being an LSE. I know many of my kindred, including amongst others my own father, a political friend, a programming friend, and a friend from my statistics master, and I can assure you that Uncle Ave isn't a LSE. He has this chill vibe, like my other SLI friends. LSEs, on the other hand, always leave this composed and constrained impression. He actively looks for stimulation and change, while LSEs search for comfort and stability. Uncle Ave looks for adventure, whereas LSEs desire predictability. He detests bureaucracy, whereas Delta sensors seem to revel in it. He enjoys Fe-acting, while most LSEs I know are more into quiet, Fi-introverted Si-sensing arts, such as cooking, gardening, sculpting, pottery, writing, and on occassion also painting. Uncle Ave is a heavy lifter and challenges himself through this, whereas I know most LSEs to enjoy endurance sports such as cycling and running more.
The only overlap I see is that LSIs and LSEs are both concrete thinkers, but that's where the simularities end.

Thank you. Perhaps Vis meant no harm with their comment, I understand that. What rubbed me the wrong way (in addition to what you mention) is the implication that I submit to authority blindly, which I feel doesn't do my thinking justice, and it felt a bit condescending because it was implied that this was my nature to do so.

I pretty much agree with the rest of what you wrote, I've done some painting and writing though. I'd also like to add to that that all the art and entertainement I like feels very "romantic" in the sense of expressing abstract ideals (beta values). Futuristic themes, horror stories/films, philosophy with romantic overtones (such as that of Nietzsche, Schopenhauer or Lavey), I like reading up on occult organizations especially ones that express mysterious, abstract ideals and dark imagery such as the Temple of Set, the Fraternitas Saturni etc (though I actually don't really believe in anything religiously or spiritually at this point. I'm also not intrigued by these groups because of cheesy conspriacy theories a la Dan Brown, but more because of the fact that their philosophy and imagery is so universal and abstract). Delta on otoh seem into "earthy" forms of expression, such as the things you mention, and in turn don't like abstract ideals that are not connected to everyday reality. That is, at least, my understanding of the quadras.

I actually also do not mind someone typing something other than my self typing (everyone is entitled to their opinion). But the approach is important.

[Armitage]

I think that mindlessly submitting to any authority would be the very last thing that you would do.

[Vis]

No, I explicitly said I don't to battle.

The first two questions are theoretical questions. If you were paying attention to what I wrote, you would have known I don't consider them important as the Reinin dichotomy in question isn't important. You know what I think? I think you took it personally that I said only Ti valuers can die for ideals (not exactly what I said, but it's what you remembered, at least). There are better theoretical questions to ask in socionics, and none of it really matters too much because none of Jungian typology is hard science and thusly it is not enforceable in a debate.

You have completely evaded the first 3 questions, which are the main points in my previous 2 posts. In your previous reply you were making these claims in an irresponsible way. If you do not have any personal conviction to them, you need to be more careful in your response.

I like your answer to the 4th question as it shows consideration and thoughtfulness. However, being knowledgeable about methods does not mean you can type people correctly. I do not trust your typing skills because your self-typing is wrong. You do not have an NiSe real sense of how types interact with each other. Your strengths are in the knowledge of the system and not in connecting theories to real life.

I think overall you are a mature person for your own type, and I'll let you go.

[adage]

@adage, your story really moved me. My sister too has this tacit bond with me. We don't talk much, mostly because she's quite closed-off, but we always bring each other thoughtful souvenirs from our holidays. She phonecalled me first when she obtained her driver's license, and I did the same when I obtained mine. There's a tacit trust between us. I'm sorry to hear how you lost your sister, and I'm sorry for what the two of you went through during your youth. You have got my sympathy, for what it's worth.

That's sweet of you, and adorable about your sister. Thanks.

[Vis]

He actively looks for stimulation and change, while LSEs search for comfort and stability. Uncle Ave looks for adventure, whereas LSEs desire predictability. He detests bureaucracy, whereas Delta sensors seem to revel in it. He enjoys Fe-acting, while most LSEs I know are more into quiet, Fi-introverted Si-sensing arts, such as cooking, gardening, sculpting, pottery, writing, and on occassion also painting. Uncle Ave is a heavy lifter and challenges himself through this, whereas I know most LSEs to enjoy endurance sports such as cycling and running more.

I understand you are trying to be kind and resolve the situation. However, your definition of LSE is that of an SLI, and vice versa.

LSE, with their Ne activating, are keen on new ideas and mental stimulations. With demonstrative Se, I'm not surprised that they lift weights and have fun with Se tasks (many of them are also great physical comedians). SLI, with Si leading Fi activating, tend to be the one seeking and staying in comfortable environments, having craftsman-like hobbies. In today's culture, nobody "likes bureaucracy", but a mature LSE will work with the institutions and help maintain the organizations, which is exactly what Uncle Ave does on this forum.

I sense duality between you and LSE. You don't look like LIE because I don't sense any Se activating from you. You are extremely nice, no quirkiness, and are very proficient with FiNe understandings. However talking about this would count as me trying to tell you who you are. So let's drop this.

[Vis]

@EIE I admit I was not careful with my wording in my previous descriptions about LSE. I have adjusted it in my later replies. With supervision relation, it's tricky to control the anger when I see irresponsible Se without an Ni direction. I'm learning to have less anger and more awareness in this process.

[adage]

That's also a very shallow view regarding LSEs, if we are being honest. They often do value tradition, established order, etc, but if they believe someone or something is ineffective or inefficient, they will be quite vocal about it.

Yeah, I think so too.
Delta's aristocratic trait is supposed to be believing in authorities who prove their worth that they do a good job and make things better in whichever way pleases the delta. There's nothing blind about this.
Blindly following authorities is unhealthy a tendency, but is ntr imo.
Same about the opposite, only ever believing in one's own authority.

[Vis]

@DEAD Looks like I'm banned from replying in your thread in "what's my typing" sub-forum. Another career direction for SLE to practice Ti strategy is hostage/business negotiation. I think Christopher Voss is a brilliant SLE.

[Ave]

You have completely evaded the first 3 questions, which are the main points in my previous 2 posts. In your previous reply you were making these claims in an irresponsible way. If you do not have any personal conviction to them, you need to be more careful in your response.

I like your answer to the 4th question as it shows consideration and thoughtfulness. However, being knowledgeable about methods does not mean you can type people correctly. I do not trust your typing skills because your self-typing is wrong. You do not have an NiSe real sense of how types interact with each other. Your strengths are in the knowledge of the system and not in connecting theories to real life.

I think overall you are a mature person for your own type, and I'll let you go.

You're repulsively condescending and patronizing, and know shit about socionics. Go fuck yourself royally, asshole.

[timber]

Like any Te domain type, they want to be taken seriously. Maybe this is why they act like it sometimes?

[Chthonic Daydream]

People in this thread really need to smell some Martin Margiela, touch some grass, and actually talk to people irl.

[Armitage]

I sense duality between you and LSE. You don't look like LIE because I don't sense any Se activating from you. You are extremely nice, no quirkiness, and are very proficient with FiNe understandings.

You know what, I'll just take this a compliment. I have had to come a long way to develop my Fi, and you believing that it's my dominant function, well, it shows the work I have put into it. You may think of me as an EII, a IEI, or any other type, I know who I am, but you may have your opinion. Cheers

[DEAD]

@DEAD Looks like I'm banned from replying in your thread in "what's my typing" sub-forum. Another career direction for SLE to practice Ti strategy is hostage/business negotiation. I think Christopher Voss is a brilliant SLE.

Oh no, I closed the thread because I got fed up with it.

If you wanna talk to me, please message me about SLEs 'cause it's not relevant to this thread about SEEs being serious, but again, neither are half of the posts lol.

[Ave]

People in this thread really need to smell some Martin Margiela, touch some grass, and actually talk to people irl.

People don't talk to others irl much in 2022 anymore, sadly, but perhaps it is time to relearn what we have unlearned because of the lockdown.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

You know what, I'll just take this a compliment. I have had to come a long way to develop my Fi, and you believing that it's my dominant function, well, it shows the work I have put into it. You may think of me as an EII, a IEI, or any other type, I know who I am, but you may have your opinion. Cheers

Lol, my thoughts when someone types me as a T are basically this as well.

[Nicozeyo]

Hello everyone,

I don't know if the topic was about serious like being "serious" in the Reinin dichotomies or serious like the regular meaning. I will answer about the latter because I find it interesting anyway. Besides, a discussion about the global opposition between Te/Fi and Fe/Ti seems like very wide even through SEE.

I knew many SEE in my life, moreover, they are my dual. So, I have things to say about this particular subject.

In a first time, I want to say some platitudes. I think we all know them but it's good to reinforce them, it never hurts. SEE are like everyone and can be serious, obviously. The SEE who isn't serious is a cliché. So, I made my point but I haven't bring something new to the discussion.

In a second time, I want to speak with you about the fact that SEE seek "seriousness" as they age, in general. We could argue that maybe life put people in front of their responsabilities and forces them to take things seriously as time passes. I don't think so because on the contrary some people tends to become more relaxed and casual (like me). I think that the explanation is that we crave to get in touch with our activating and suggestive function. It is known but once again it's free to say the truth.
So, I think that SEE can be serious and looks for being serious as times passes. At least, the SEE that have a pretty "normal" life. You could always find some SEE with singular past or experiences that makes them dislike this part of themselves.
To illustrate my second point I will speak about an oral presentation that I had to do with a friend during my Master. She didn't do anything during the "concrete" part because unfortunatly she never really learned how to write with the language that we used at this time. When it comes to the oral presentation, she was really invested in it. She listened carefully to my instructions about the presentation's plan. And when the decisive moment came, she does thing perfectly with all the seriousness needed. So, everything was alright.

In a third time, I want to talk about some strategies that SEE use to hide their "seriousness" insecurities. They are pretty cunning at doing so. For instance, I remember a SEE's interview where he admits sometimes playing "dumb" to see how people will react around him. He explained it as "I can see how people judges my behavior so I can separate the good people from the bad ones." I don't doubt him, he probably really believes this. But let's be honest with ourselves. We are all the idiot of someone else whatever our type is, we cannot always hide from being look down by others. So, I think that SEE tries to avoid situations where they are confronted about their "seriousness" by prentending being simple minded. They don't want to step-in in the area of "seriousness" because they are afraid to losing credibility against someone quick to mislead them or look down at them. They probably see this kind of situation as a failure and want to avoid it at all cost even if it means pretending being dumb. You see, the trick with "being dumb" is that you can't lose credibility because people think you have none. So, ironically, they are really good at deceiving people about their real abilities which means that they are in fact very cunning.

So, at the end of the day. They can be serious and sometimes want to be. When they do, they are dedicated and loyal. Besides, they are afraid that people look down at them because they usually have the reputation of being frivolous or simple-minded. But, be careful, they are far more serious and smart than they appears.

Have a nice day all ! Love SEE.

[Armitage]

@Nicozeyo, you basically just described Boris Johnson's modus operandus.