question for sp-1st or 2nd people
What does sp feel like?
I imagine it has a lot more depth than what I'm able to access.
I want to hear all about it
EDIT: what does it feel like when things are going well? what are the pleasurable or meaningful aspects of it?
I'm trying to figure out what the "reward" of sp is
Last edited by lemontrees; 11-19-2014 at 10:42 PM.
I'm a bit new to enneagram myself so take what i say in context with that, but in my developing understanding of the stackings, it's more that I resonate with the overall phenotype of sp/so versus the other stackings, and thus i'm not sure i'm able to distinctly separate out what is sp about myself. What's interesting to me also (sort of a side-note), is that i do relate also to some aspects of the other syn-flow stackings (so/sx and sx/sp) but truly sp/so seems to fit the best and is most comfortable to me as a descriptor of my identity. In fact, before someone pointed out sp/so to me, I had tentatively considered myself so/sx.
In interacting with people of a variety of stackings here, some of the differences that stand out to me that might seem stacking related:
--my thoughts tend to not gravitate to darkness; i dont like thinking about darkness and despair, much less dwelling on it. I actually kind of have an aversion to that.
--being in charge of my own self and maintaining my own identity, while also being a positively contributing member of the community describes me well. I do get nervous though when the "community" starts trying to take over being in charge of me and my time and my choices, and i dont particularly enjoy that feeling. (this might actually be the sp-first in me). In a way that may make me seem like a "loner" sometimes, but I prefer to see it as me being a free-agent. This dynamic plays out in different ways in different situations for me, but for example, re: hanging out with friends, sometimes i will join and sometimes not, and I dont like it when i'm made to feel like i'm not being a good friend if i dont join for something, or put pressure on me to (I know some ppl who sort of do that. Idk what stacking that would represent... so/sp? not sure...)
--I like being a responsible member of society and to be helpful towards a constructive goal (this may not be type related).
--throwing around idle talk about poop, passing gas, privates, unless in the context of helping someone with a medical problem, just seems banal and unpleasantly vulgar to me. (may also not be stacking related, but i kind of see sx firsts or 2nds engaging that kind of talk & joking more, for some reason).
--I'm very private about sexual matters; it's not something i choose or prefer to engage in as an open topic of conversation with people i'm not intimate with. Not here on the forum, not among my irl platonic friends, not at work. Amazingly, my boss sometimes makes references alluding to sex with her husband, or boobs, and even if i will be friendly about it, I find it highly uncomfortable and awkward when she does that. I know some people would enjoy that kind of thing though and think her to be chill and fun because of that. To clear up what seems to be a misconception about sx-lasts, though, this does not mean i'm not a sexual person... In a way, sex is too sacred of a realm for me to just casually talk/joke about it, it's almost like doing that would sort of cheapen that sacredness.
IDk if this was helpful at all
Last edited by Suz; 11-19-2014 at 10:24 PM. Reason: typo
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
It kind of feels like a self-attending impulse. A focus on my body...building it up, breaking it down. Touching. Boundaries. Things that are mine.
Last edited by suedehead; 11-19-2014 at 10:43 PM.
I'm not sure if I am sp first or second. I'm a major head type, constantly worrying and looking up info, and mentally planning how to handle what if scenarios, etc. Most of that is fixated on health and wellbeing. What happens if R dies or is in an accident or we somehow split up? How would I get by? What things would I do? I kept my crappy van for years as a just in case thing, it could be my home, I knew how I could set it up for living in it. How would I cook? How would I clean? This summer I finally got rid of the van and got a car, but not before getting agreements for loans if something happens and I need to get a vehicle I could live out of.
I also constantly check and double check if I left the stove on, locked the door, etc. I'll check multiple times, not just twice.
I'm constantly analyzing my body, how it feels, do I need to warm up? Cool down? Adjust positions, etc. i attribute much of this to Si seeking.
I have boxes and boxes of books and notes, and hundreds of pdfs related to physical health, nutrition, fitness, mental health, self-improvement, etc.
Now, while I am mentally fixated on these things, I'm not a gut type. I don't actively, physically pursue the common sp materialistic or monetary related stuff. My house is disgustingly cluttered (with the above mentioned boxes of stuff). It drives me nuts. But it's a real struggle to get rid of it because I might need/want the info some day. I'm on disability, so there's not enough to set aside for savings, etc. So instead I've begun working on reducing expenses. Reducing how much electricity we use, how much money we spend on food, etc. Though I still spend on books and such, grrr.
R, on the other hand is sp/so. He does earn good money, good investments, etc. But, he doesn't consider if the house is locked up, lights out, etc. He doesn't get cold easily, or too hot, etc. He doesn't understand my worry fixation. He doesn,t plot and plan about it all, like I do. But then, he's probably an enneagram 9. If I tell him I want something, he gets it for me...eventually.
I would imagine that a heart fixated sp would be the ones that are fixated on decorating their home, making it comfy, fixing it up, remodel parts of it, fill it with sentimental items, develop a strong attachment to it, and be total homebodies.
Oh, speaking of homebodies, R and I prefer spending time at home rather than go out. Neither of us is much interested in having company, though. We don't spend most our time conversing about sp matters, either. He's too much of an introvert to talk much, and I don't feel comfy letting him know just what kinds of thoughts constantly run through my head.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
The benefits of sp for me would be peace/quiet, freedom, independence, comfort (both physical and spiritual).Originally Posted by lemontrees
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
One thing to keep in mind is that the enneagram is about fixations, in general how we avoid the 3 Aversive Emotions.
* Uncertainty and Fear (mind)
* Obstacles and Frustrated wants/desires (gut)
* Loss of attachment/support (heart)
(I have better phrases for these three, but i can't find my notes right now)
So for benefits of each instinct, imagine how a healthy person who has found successful ways of handling the aversive emotions might approach the sp related areas of life. Maybe...
A person who feels confident and calm regarding sp related matters.
A person who has released attachment to materialistic items.
A person who is comfortable being alone with just themselves.
A person who is self-reliant.
A person who has a secure sense of self, and is able to assert their personal boundaries as needed, without stepping over others'.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
you're sooooooooooooooooo SP-first...I'm not sure if I am sp first or second. I'm a major head type, constantly worrying and looking up info, and mentally planning how to handle what if scenarios, etc. Most of that is fixated on health and wellbeing. What happens if R dies or is in an accident or we somehow split up? How would I get by? What things would I do? I kept my crappy van for years as a just in case thing, it could be my home, I knew how I could set it up for living in it. How would I cook? How would I clean? This summer I finally got rid of the van and got a car, but not before getting agreements for loans if something happens and I need to get a vehicle I could live out of.
I also constantly check and double check if I left the stove on, locked the door, etc. I'll check multiple times, not just twice.
I'm constantly analyzing my body, how it feels, do I need to warm up? Cool down? Adjust positions, etc. i attribute much of this to Si seeking.
I have boxes and boxes of books and notes, and hundreds of pdfs related to physical health, nutrition, fitness, mental health, self-improvement, etc.
Now, while I am mentally fixated on these things, I'm not a gut type. I don't actively, physically pursue the common sp materialistic or monetary related stuff. My house is disgustingly cluttered (with the above mentioned boxes of stuff). It drives me nuts. But it's a real struggle to get rid of it because I might need/want the info some day. I'm on disability, so there's not enough to set aside for savings, etc. So instead I've begun working on reducing expenses. Reducing how much electricity we use, how much money we spend on food, etc. Though I still spend on books and such, grrr.
R, on the other hand is sp/so. He does earn good money, good investments, etc. But, he doesn't consider if the house is locked up, lights out, etc. He doesn't get cold easily, or too hot, etc. He doesn't understand my worry fixation. He doesn,t plot and plan about it all, like I do. But then, he's probably an enneagram 9. If I tell him I want something, he gets it for me...eventually.
I would imagine that a heart fixated sp would be the ones that are fixated on decorating their home, making it comfy, fixing it up, remodel parts of it, fill it with sentimental items, develop a strong attachment to it, and be total homebodies.
Oh, speaking of homebodies, R and I prefer spending time at home rather than go out. Neither of us is much interested in having company, though. We don't spend most our time conversing about sp matters, either. He's too much of an introvert to talk much, and I don't feel comfy letting him know just what kinds of thoughts constantly run through my head.
you got a better shot at making it to old age...I don't call that a reward, though
Or sx first. Not really sure yet. But definitely becoming more sp as i age.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
tell me your distinction for parsing out sx first from sp-firstOr sx first. Not really sure yet. But definitely becoming more sp as i age.
I might be sp.
I avoid junk food, go to the gym regularly, and exercise whenever I can ( I have a nice body ).
I have zero debt and a huge savings account.
Not sure if that helps.
If i had a method for that, i wouldnt be confused about which was first for me.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
fwiw i've actually thought this for a while. not that it's important (or like you asked, or anything)
in general i guess i'm wondering what sp actually feels like physically and spiritually. b/c when i watch people w/ sp instincts my Si picks up on it, it's a totally distinct physical energy that emanates off of them and is obvious. for all my Si i can't enter that state usually (or at least i imagine i'm not there). it's frustrating. i want someone to describe to me what it's like
also what makes sp feel "good"? somebody describe to me the most decadent of sp-pleasures, and not just the symptoms of being an Sp person (although i'm happy to hear about that too)
I think I'm sx/sp
I do sp things, eat good food and stuff to keep myself from exploding.
your posts contain a lot of self-exposition. that's a pretty good indicator for sp/sx > sx/sp.If i had a method for that, i wouldnt be confused about which was first for me.
Ah, but sx is also known as the transmitting instinct, and includes the displaying of self.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
I've never thought about the enneagram in much detail (seriously), but the drive I associate with my own sp stacking (assuming I'm indeed sp first or second) is tied to maximizing the feeling of bodily, financial and personal integrity. By analogy, it is making sure that the base of the structure is robust and can weather anything thrown at it.fwiw i've actually thought this for a while. not that it's important (or like you asked, or anything)
in general i guess i'm wondering what sp actually feels like physically and spiritually. b/c when i watch people w/ sp instincts my Si picks up on it, it's a totally distinct physical energy that emanates off of them and is obvious. for all my Si i can't enter that state usually (or at least i imagine i'm not there). it's frustrating. i want someone to describe to me what it's like
also what makes sp feel "good"? somebody describe to me the most decadent of sp-pleasures, and not just the symptoms of being an Sp person (although i'm happy to hear about that too
e.g. it feels good sitting on a pile of savings and being secure against bankruptcy, or having a healthy body and being secure against diabetes, to put it in simple but instructive terms.
It seeps into the intellectual realm via a preoccupation with making sure my arguments are air-tight, obsessing over trivial mistakes when performing a craft and having high standards for personal workmanship, etc.
That's the gist of it, but it's not as anal as it sounds.
i feel very distinct from other people, i mean the physical energy. i'm always inside my skin, whether i'm pulling deeper into myself or ripping the seams. my apartment is my sanctuary and when its clean and smells nice i feel like it has fortress walls and my feet are sinking into the mud and nothing is blowing away. me, mine, in the circle. being in a crowd is nice not because of the individuals composing it but because of the waves of energy they give off and how it feels brushing my skin.
Self-pres in the secondary position feels rather like a concrete wall on all sides, and your instinct is to somehow break through it. The surface appears rigid and unyielding, but there's a lot of activity inside yearning to bust loose. Without a safe space to come out of that shell, the energy ends up stifled, internally compressed behind the prison bars. A lot of sp-secondaries can have rather withdrawn and disaffected presentations, but it often belies a much stronger modus operandi. It's like they are perpetually waiting for some opportunity to break loose from their cages and connect with the outside world.
YES. i resonate with this as well. Emphasis most heavily on personal integrity, but all 3 are important to my sanity. Financially, I'm not particularly wealth-focused but, for example, paying money that i owe (bills, loans, etc) is what i see as a component of being a responsible individual and leaving such things undone weighs unpleasantly on me until i do it.
p.s. i'd like to think that most people emphasize personal integrity though, irrespective of instinct stacking...
Last edited by Suz; 11-20-2014 at 04:32 AM.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Your self-exposition lacks the raw, unfiltered, masochistic quality that sx/sp reveals in their moments of self-exposition.
Focusing/Talking about self, but not transmitting with enough intensity for sx/sp.
I agree. This is one of the reasons why i had put sp/sx as my instinct type.
However, I was most definitely a transmitter when i was younger. Enough so that aspects of that are what lead to a psyche disorder diagnosis. I believe my age (42), size, and 19 years of effort have helped balance that out so it's not so dominant anymore. (Leading to a whole other set of fixations,)
Thank you, Kill4Me. I had been struggling with enneagram for a few years. I'm starting to get it, but still question some things about it. It helps to access someone else's perception on where it might describe me. Especially someone who offers a reason and sample rather than just their final product. Thanks for that.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
do any more sp people have thoughts?
i have found this thread helpful and nice!
Well, if this is how we're putting it, i dont call going out and doing wild partying, drinking, getting high, and being promiscuous until 4am every night or even once a week much of a reward either. It's exhausting and debilitating from all angles (physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual).
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
its a misconception that sp-firsts don't party. many do. sx-instinct's reckless/insatiableness is an altogether different animal.
i know, just like your statement was a misconception.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Is avoiding risk a necessary part of sp? Because I take a lot.
How about the overriding of passions and ideals by force of serious pragmatic concerns? Does that only become a factor when the fixation is unhealthy?
I the second instinct is "freer" when first one is taken care of. at the same time though, the second instinct can be still pretty functional while the first is crashing and burning.
i think sp-first people, depending on their personalities, can take risks on sp for the sake of future or bigger sp-gains. or when unhealthy they can just disregard their safety period. or they might want to prove that their sp isn't totally in control of them.
but it might be worth taking a look at what drives the risks, what it's pivoting around.
EDIT: but you know. serious pragmatic concerns are serious pragmatic concerns. those affect everyone...
I bought a 3-pack of jumbo ziploc bags and felt a mild ecstasy at unfolding them and seeing how they were the perfect affordable, space-saving solution to my seasonal storage needs.This isn't something I'd say comes naturally to me ... I've clawed and clambered every inch of the way to master basic physical / spatial issues. It's satisfying, because it's earned.
Also earned, and maintained and renegotiated, is what I call "feeling the contours of my own being," which I guess sounds cheesy. But yeah there's a sense of containment of my energy, it feels coiled up and purposeful, like I have a secret, I might or might not share it, maybe I'll let you in, maybe not.
Or maybe I'm just imagining all that.
this basically sounds like the best thing ever.I bought a 3-pack of jumbo ziploc bags and felt a mild ecstasy at unfolding them and seeing how they were the perfect affordable, space-saving solution to my seasonal storage needs.
Also earned, and maintained and renegotiated, is what I call "feeling the contours of my own being," which I guess sounds cheesy. But yeah there's a sense of containment of my energy, it feels coiled up and purposeful, like I have a secret, I might or might not share it, maybe I'll let you in, maybe not.
Or maybe I'm just imagining all that.
It might or might not be Sp. It's definitely pleasant.this basically sounds like the best thing ever.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Best as I can figure:
I want to be close to another person, but it doesn't happen. For instance, in elementary school, I kept wanting a bff, the kind I read about in books. But making that happen is like doing the "taco tongue' thing most people can do. It just doesn't happen. I did social things and had friends, but no bff.
This might be related to sx-last or unrelated to enneagram; what do you think?
I am sp first and I have this realm of personal space that I have secured to keep all of the sx and sos out
you're right i think that might be more related to sx last than to sp first. Or NTR...
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I can do a "clover tongue", which makes me feel extra special.
I think that this could very well be related to being sx last. It could also be related to your type as well. I know a few Te dominants and they seem to take much longer in forming friendships, especially the more intimate kind. There's a guy that I have considered a friend for well over a year, and I think he has only recently showed signs that the friendships is reciprocated. He now talks to me about more personal things and just looks less guarded. I would say he is sx last as well.
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It's interesting, as sp/sx I spent much of my time alone pursuing my own interests, but I always had a desire to have one really good friend to share some of these interests with. I would keep one best friend for years. We would share one, maybe two interests, and hanging out usually revolved around them or some related activity. Before high school, most of these hangouts were what we called "sleep overs". These happened maybe once a month, if that, but that is all the contact I really needed.
When I feel a connection to someone, I tend to pursue them a bit to form a friendship, or allow myself to be pursued. What's important is that there is some sort of a special bond, understanding, or interest that brings us together. Too much friendship is draining though. For me, it's important to have one really good friend to let my guard down and share things with, just as long as it doesn't become a competitive or dramatic relationship. I prefer all of my relationships to be devoid of these things.
Last edited by Skepsis; 11-21-2014 at 02:18 PM.
Copycat
I guess I like my personal space too, but I am an extrovert...I'm comfortable around most people whether I know them or not, but sometimes I want them to ignore me so I can do my own thing. I'm not sure this is type-related; I would think sp-lasts would also like personal space. But I know an sx/sp who wants to be with one other person all the time and doesn't like being around multiple people. I like balance: sometimes be "alone", sometimes be with another person, sometimes be with several.
I think confusion is related. I am most at-ease when "alone" and most mentally lost when having extended 1-1 time with another individual. Not because I don't like them, but because I somehow don't understand the situation. Socializing with a group can be more awkward than being with one person, but it offers more options. If talking to one person gets weird, I can bring someone else into the conversation.
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I was actually going to respond to one of your comments this morning but was tired. I don't know you but from what you say regarding your anxiety, I figured 6 was better fit, too. 7s are head types too but their relation to anxiety differs, it seems 6s quell theirs more (maybe) through thinking about all the worse case scenarios to know the possible outcomes and ways of dealing with them. It seems like more of an anxiety about negative outcomes. With 7s, they're more positive, sometimes even getting into trouble from their tendency to not distinguish dreams from reality which can bring others down too (think of the salesman who fascinates you with a new product or something, highlighting the positives, that ends up getting you into a bind). The anxiety is more about falling into deprivation and, instead of focusing on all these negative 'what ifs', idealization keeps them preoccupied. Could be ideals, visions, adventure, plans, fantasies, the extraordinary, dreams, etc. Some aspects of E7 also seems similar to some depictions of Ne dom too though.
