Piracy killed the creative industry

[tcaudilllg]

An open-minded place like this isn't the place to find opposition to copyleft. One of the things that copyleft adds to the biz world is a sense of accountability: when people can choose whether or not to pay you, you'd better do your darnedest to be liked by them.

I think the Russian emulation site Emu-Land offers the clearest picture of how important access to creative works is to inspiration. Just looking at the American side presents a blurry picture of how we got from Venture to Diablo 3, but taking the Japanese side into account, the evolution of game design becomes crystal clear. Actually, most games today are variations on the original designs from the 70s. Football, for example, is very much the same game it was back then. The stories have also evolved in a manner that recreates the unremembered road from the beginning of conscious thought to the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Of course Diablo 3 is just Rogue with pretty graphics.

[Aquagraph]

I refuse.

We could fight about that if you want?

I think piracy is.. think about the children!


..Sorry it's actually pretty hard to even play devil's advocate convincingly on this one.

Hey, I never knew that I need you so much, come back @Saberstorm, @Maritsa Darmandzhyan

[Aquagraph]

Pick a dumber standpoint then! Try finding one here: http://www.ontheissues.org/sarah_palin.htm

After reading that I started becoming more concerned in the price of gasoline..

..along with the whereabouts of her residence.

[JWC3]

Thanks for that. You just substantiated one of the dual-type hypotheses., I believe. To wit, the creative function's approach to the role function (in the IM chain) is an unshakable prerogative. But why is money so important to you?

MO MONEY MO PROBLEMS!

[Capitalist Pig]

Hey, I never knew that I need you so much, come back @Saberstorm, @Maritsa Darmandzhyan

They never endeavored to answer my question anyway.

[JWC3]

I think piracy is.. think about the children!


..Sorry it's actually pretty hard to even play devil's advocate convincingly on this one.

Hey, I never knew that I need you so much, come back @Saberstorm, @Maritsa Darmandzhyan

LOL! Fwiw you can pretty much ignore maritsa's opinion on this one. Union regulations prohibit the type of behavior she is describing, namely paying the crew less because ticket sales are low, and union membership is mandatory to work on any film and most theaters. Except like community theaters and stuff like that. The only people who get paid based on ticket sales (in the film or theater industry) are people who opt out of their normal union pay and instead negotiate a contract with the producer. So basically if some star is bitching about pirating they are the ones who negotiated a contract that would be affected by it, well their agent really, instead of just taking like the couple dollars the union mandates that they get paid.

If anyone tried to pay crew less because ticket sales are low... Well let's just say you thought the writer's strike was bad.

[Capitalist Pig]

The real battle for freedom of the internet hasn't even begun. Just wait till large, sophisticated 3D printers become widely available and people start "pirating" Ferraris and Jet Fighters from downloadable schematics. Even becoming self-reliant on your own manufactured trinkets is going to pose a huge threat to the powers that be.

This is a long ways away yet. Will people still even call it the Internet by then?

Union regulations prohibit the type of behavior she is describing, [. . .]

True; and now, with the invocation of labor unions, I have yet another axe to grind.

[JWC3]

True; and now, with the invocation of labor unions, I have yet another axe to grind.

Fun fact, in order to get into the union you have to work on a union film (read any film that wasn't shot on like your neighbors camera or something) and in order to work on a union film you have to be in the union.

It's the same with like SAG membership and the theater versions of those unions.

[Capitalist Pig]

I don't think trade unions are very useful at all, and have historically acted in circumvention of economic freedom.

[JWC3]

I abhor unions.

Well they are a bureaucratic nightmare, but in the creative industry they do a lot of good things like make it mandatory that actors have access to a toilet during the rehearsal and performance process or that if it's dark there be lighting so people don't trip or guarantee a certain salary so that you're not gambling on the success of a production every time you take a gig. Really basic stuff that theaters prior to union intervention would actually not do because toilets cost money and there isn't much in theater.

[Capitalist Pig]

Well they are a bureaucratic nightmare, but in the creative industry they do a lot of good things like make it mandatory that actors have access to a toilet during the rehearsal and performance process or that if it's dark there be lighting so people don't trip or guarantee a certain salary so that you're not gambling on the success of a production every time you take a gig. Really basic stuff that theaters prior to union intervention would actually not do because toilets cost money and there isn't much in theater.

I can't tell if you're being humorous, sincere, or a mixture of both. Either way, it sounds like you just accused the plumbers union of owing the arts and entertainment unions a favor.

[Absurd]

I can't tell if you're being humorous, sincere, or a mixture of both. Either way, it sounds like you just accused the plumbers union of owing the arts and entertainment unions a favor.

Have you not have been in prison and fucked up the arse?

[JWC3]

I can't tell if you're being humorous, sincere, or a mixture of both. Either way, it sounds like you just accused the plumbers union of owing the arts and entertainment unions a favor.

Serious, like it's actually in the LORT handbook cause bitches weren't giving actors bathrooms. I think it was mostly during auditions though, like they wouldn't give auditionies bathrooms, and if you had to wait a long time to audition that could be problematic.

http://actorsequity.org/docs/ruleboo...book_05-08.pdf

LORT also does nice things like prevent blacklisting and make it mandatory that actors have a place to store their shit so it won't get stolen when they are in costume.

As for the plumbers, it's mostly a renting a gym with no facilities for auditions is cheaper than renting a gym with facilities, so I'm not sure the plumbers are seeing any of that money.

[Saberstorm]

I am busy right now, applying for a patent. I'll back to this in two weeks.

[Creepy-male]

I don't know I'm kind of for free-sharing (piracy as some call it) and find all the people who are against it to be kind of annoying. Although I would find it annoying if someone copied something of mine and made tons of profit off of it. I think credit should be due to the source, but not in terms of strict legal policies -- in terms of recognition.

[tcaudilllg]

The only reason there is an issue is because some people are pirating the latest and greatest stuff just so they can invest more heavily in something other than media. The severity of the crime is relative: if someone working a low wage job does it, well, that's the price to society of offering low wage jobs. (nothing is cheap in this world, don'tcha know!) But for someone making a decent wage, who pirated the latest game right when it came out so that they could pad their retirement nest egg (or save for the slightly better rudder on that boat), well I say throw the book at 'em. If you don't want to pay full price for a game, buy it used or wait six months for the price to fall by $10.

Hours in the game industry often tend to the ridiculous for certain fields. Programmers are forced to sit in front of a computer screen for 12-14 hours at a time sometimes (although it's getting to be routine from what I've heard), which has substantial physical and psychological repercussions. Artists are overworked and usually underpaid. In contrast, lead designers just walk around, talk, and watch all day long AND make a killing... they seriously live the life. Map designers get to make mods all day. On top of it all, publishing execs rake in hundreds of millions in profits while many of the actual development companies (LLCs and proprietorships) go under. That's a major dimension of piracy: it's a way for the common man to thumb their nose at corporate elites in a very direct and significant manner.

Of course music gets pirated too... goodness knows most people involved with music live the dream. There is a lot of envy for that industry. Movies and television are other dream industries (the lowly grips aside).

[Aquagraph]

The only reason there is an issue is because some people are pirating the latest and greatest stuff just so they can invest more heavily in something other than media. The severity of the crime is relative: if someone working a low wage job does it, well, that's the price to society of offering low wage jobs. (nothing is cheap in this world, don'tcha know!) But for someone making a decent wage, who pirated the latest game right when it came out so that they could pad their retirement nest egg (or save for the slightly better rudder on that boat), well I say throw the book at 'em. If you don't want to pay full price for a game, buy it used or wait six months for the price to fall by $10.

If the cost is too high for some, they wouldn't have bought the game anyway. No revenue lost.

I don't know I'm kind of for free-sharing (piracy as some call it) and find all the people who are against it to be kind of annoying. Although I would find it annoying if someone copied something of mine and made tons of profit off of it. I think credit should be due to the source, but not in terms of strict legal policies -- in terms of recognition.

The Pirate parties are not pro abolishing everything about copyright. The local Pirate Party wants only 10 years of copyright to music if my memory serves me right. Current copyright expiration is 70 years or more after the musicians death.

This is part of our agenda, along with stopping scum like Monsanto who are patenting lifeforms. These are seeds that might grow to pollinate their patented genetic intellectual property which will make farmers accidentally infringe Monsanto's patent.

I don't know I'm kind of for free-sharing (piracy as some call it)

Many pirates believe they will undo the sinister taste of the concept of "piracy" and maybe make it a thing.

It's the same with black people referring to one another as "******s". Although that haven't apparently worked for them too well..

[Creepy-male]

If the cost is too high for some, they wouldn't have bought the game either way. No revenue lost.


The Pirate parties are not pro abolishing everything about copyright. The local Pirate Party wants only 10 years of copyright to music if my memory serves me right. Current copyright expiration is 70 years or more after the musicians death.

This is part of our agenda, along with stopping scum like Monsanto who are patenting lifeforms. These are seeds that might grow to pollinate their patented genetic intellectual property which will make farmers accidentally infringe Monsanto's patent.

Having a shorter copyright to music sounds extremely reasonable as artists still have a little buffer before there stuff can be copied or spread around too much, in that buffer they can recreate themselves. So the artists are driven to continually innovate and the people only have a short wait before they can start reaping the benefits of the artists contribution. In fact finding a nice practical medium for what is a reasonable buffer could be rather interesting.

As for Monsanto -- I don't know too much about it. Is the issue basically that its an exploitation of the patent so that if one accidentally infringes the patent Monsanto can corporately acquire there assets using the patent?

[Aquagraph]

As for Monsanto -- I don't know too much about it. Is the issue basically that its an exploitation of the patent so that if one accidentally infringes the patent Monsanto can corporately acquire there assets using the patent?

That's how I understood the case to be like. What I've understood, the prices for those seed are kept artificially high once it has been supplied forward. This is done in order to reap more money from the infringements of the farmers. Also some say that they have bought out the competition very well. And Wikipedia tells us:

Monsanto is also the second largest producer of genetically engineered (GE) seed; it provides the technology in 49% of the genetically engineered seeds used in the US market.

[Capitalist Pig]

Hours in the game industry often tend to the ridiculous for certain fields. Programmers are forced to sit in front of a computer screen for 12-14 hours at a time sometimes (although it's getting to be routine from what I've heard), which has substantial physical and psychological repercussions. Artists are overworked and usually underpaid. In contrast, lead designers just walk around, talk, and watch all day long AND make a killing... they seriously live the life. Map designers get to make mods all day. On top of it all, publishing execs rake in hundreds of millions in profits while many of the actual development companies (LLCs and proprietorships) go under. That's a major dimension of piracy: it's a way for the common man to thumb their nose at corporate elites in a very direct and significant manner.

Give me a break, Tcaud. Don't come in here crying about the plight of programmers and software designers toiling away in the cubicle farm sweatshops. If it was their perception that their labor and abilities were not being put to proper use, or are undercompensated for their talents, there is nothing to stop them from making a career change. Or better yet, starting their own video game venture, if they think they know how to run the business better. In these situations, you're only describing an incentive for the most dedicated and inspired to remain in their fields and do what they love to do best. Overall, this should yield a net benefit for video game consumers in receiving the quality product they desire.

[ArchonAlarion]

Give me a break, Tcaud. Don't come in here crying about the plight of programmers and software designers toiling away in the cubicle farm sweatshops. If it was their perception that their labor and abilities were not being put to proper use, or are undercompensated for their talents, there is nothing to stop them from making a career change. Or better yet, starting their own video game venture, if they think they know how to run the business better. In these situations, you're only describing an incentive for the most dedicated and inspired to remain in their fields and do what they love to do best. Overall, this should yield a net benefit for video game consumers in receiving the quality product they desire.

I heartily concur.

[Creepy-male]

That's how I understood the case to be like. What I've understood, the prices for those seed are kept artificially high once it has been supplied forward. This is done in order to reap more money from the infringements of the farmers. Also some say that they have bought out the competition very well.

How Diabolical, its like a virus.

[Creepy-male]

Give me a break, Tcaud. Don't come in here crying about the plight of programmers and software designers toiling away in the cubicle farm sweatshops. If it was their perception that their labor and abilities were not being put to proper use, or are undercompensated for their talents, there is nothing to stop them from making a career change. Or better yet, starting their own video game venture, if they think they know how to run the business better. In these situations, you're only describing an incentive for the most dedicated and inspired to remain in their fields and do what they love to do best. Overall, this should yield a net benefit for video game consumers in receiving the quality product they desire.

I work in software and I agree.

[Aquagraph]

How Diabolical, its like a virus.

I don't want to call any entities evil but.. Monsanto is almost near enough to make itself an exception.