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Thread: Are SEEs/ESFps prone to cult-like behaviour more than any other type?

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    Question Are SEEs/ESFps prone to cult-like behaviour more than any other type?

    I have noticed in my SEE acquaintances and friends that they all have this thing they deeply worship and they feel like it is the best (and only) great thing in the world and it is perfect and people should just think a little bit to see how awesome it is and so on ... it could be anything in the ''-ism'' categories or just some foundation of diet and lifestyle stuff or even LGBTQ community or political activity-focused life. I understand and respect it deeply when they actually do good for themselves and the others, but I have seen they tend to fall into a loop of ''not really believing in something but definitely being part of the cult and always advertising it and talking about it for some unexplainable reason'' which they are actually really good at. Am I crazy to think this?

    and, are SEEs the type who uses the word ''rational'' or care about it the most? It is a boss word imo and we should replace it with something better in Socionics.

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    idontgiveaf's Avatar
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    I think it's not just SEE. But most people who found happiness on things other people sees as nonsense.

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    I feel like ESEs are most prone to this, but SEE probably has their own version, but its more individualistic and less cult like. maybe i'm unfairly biased but I associate rigid thinking and weird cult like behavior with Ti valuing... whereas the Fi version is more like hippie shit or just like base materialistic philosophy like greed=good (Te style judgements, one just the negation of the other, but fundamental the same low res picture). its probably just as stupid but less organized and hierarchical

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    idontgiveaf's Avatar
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    Yeah more like ESE because of Si.

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    Will we start over, or circle the drain crazymaisy's Avatar
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    Sales, selling, it's their thing.
    Maisy
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    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
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    Ep-types are the least likely to hold anything dear although down deep, they can be rather predictable or set in their ways, which can seem rather odd for types who are explorers or experimenters by nature. I could see some using a cult as a means to achieve personal notoriety or goals but this would be a very odd path.
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Honorary Ballsack
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    Only SEEs are into cults
    Socionics is a cult
    Therefore we are all SEE

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    SEE does not seem particularly prone to cult-like behaviour, at least not in my experience.

    If you are talking about fangirl behaviour, then Ethical Si types (ESE, SEI, IEE, EII) immediately come to mind. Si is the function most likely to archive their experiences. Cults are more likely to form if Si is combined with an ethical information element due to the emotional value placed on the idea/activity.

    Delta NFs will regualrly nerd out and talk obsessively about books and movies they've watched, to the annoyance of everyone else around them. Alpha SFs by contrast will hoard memorabilia, especially fashion items like shoes and store them for years, until their wardrobe is literally overflowing.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-29-2017 at 11:13 PM.

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    True. Cannot see cultish behavior on SEE.

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    Iei can be a cult fighting for human rights. And they're scary

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    ^

    This sounds more like EII than IEI. Betas are much less sympathetic to humanitarian causes than Deltas are.

    If EII is like a special snowflake who writes bad poetry while protesting capitalism, IEI is like a femme fatale or upper class escort. IEIs (along with SEIs) are often yuuuuge gold diggers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empineer View Post
    I have noticed in my SEE acquaintances and friends that they all have this thing they deeply worship and they feel like it is the best (and only) great thing in the world and it is perfect and people should just think a little bit to see how awesome it is and so on
    To be part of a group and advertise it seems as more Ti/Fe region.
    SEE as having Ni suggestive may have high and naive enthusiasm to deal with esoterics communities, including religious.
    But diets? Or just about anything - doubtfully. Except when this is done for money.

    > are SEEs the type who uses the word ''rational'' or care about it the most?

    "rational" relates to Te mostly. valued for SEE and nothing more

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    It's a Ti thing imo and observation, SEE are not prone to this

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    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
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    Okay, tea time. Listen.
    SEEs are not prone to cult-like behavior. They ARE a cult. And we are the loyal worshippers. This is the essence. Accept your fate because resistance to SEE's propagandistic charm is futile. Now go and enjoy your day. Willy Wonka has spoken.


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    I think Charles Manson was SEE.

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    Say hello to our ESFj cult follower poster child

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    Causal-Determinist Cognition

    Let us now examine the first cognitive form: It is analytic, positive, and deductive. We will call this style Causal-Determinist. Its carriers are Sociotypes ILE, LSI, SEE, EII (ENTp, ISTj, ESFp, INFj, respectively)

    As Statics, their cognitive activity is stable and clear. As Evolutionary types, they think procedurally without overlooking parts and intermediate details. As Positivists, they aim towards singularly valid solutions.

    Intellectual Sphere

    Causal-Determinist cognition is known under synonymous names as formal logic or deterministic thinking, both of which emphasize its rigid nature. Speech in this cognitive style takes shape with aid of the connectives "because", "therefore", "consequently" (causal conjunctions). The mental process consists in constructing chains of cause and effect, reducing explanations to deterministic mechanisms. Using the example of Aristotle, who first pointed out four ways to explain phenomena, the reason for the existence of a sculpture is the sculptor who fashioned it directly.

    In the scientific sphere so thinks ILE, in the managerial-administrative sphere is methodical LSI, in the social sphere SEE calculates chains of material interests, in the humanitarian sphere subject to the same categorical imperative is EII.

    Social Sphere

    Aristotle is considered the discoverer of this approach. The basic laws of formal thinking are outlined in his theory of syllogism. However, the first to consistently put them into practice was Euclid, founder of geometry. More recently, its principles grounded rationalist Rene Descartes in his 1637 treatise "Discourse on the Method". Then it finally took shape in mathematical logic. The Causal-Determinist paradigm reached its apogee in Logical Positivism, then increasingly began to decline in value towards the end of the 20th century. However, as the common stereotype of proof, it still dominates to this day.

    I will touch its advantages. First, it is perceived by society as the most authoritative, most convincing, and singularly correct. In mathematics, it is formalized as the deductive-axiomatic method. Use of it requires great intellectual stamina. Second, attributes of greater clarity and concentration are inherent to this style. The type most characterized by singular concentration is LSI. However, the irrational SEE argues quite soundly, deriving one consequence from another, implying focus on the chain of events. If even one link fails for any reason, then Determinists lose their sense of rationale and find it difficult to act because they see no reason to.

    At the same time, Causal-Determinism has its drawbacks. It is primarily the most artificial and removed from the laws of functioning life. Its efficacy extends to the 'logical' formulation of already existing results, the construction of operating mechanisms, but not fundamentally new discoveries. The first dead end which formalization risks is scholasticism, i.e. pointless albeit logically impeccable reasoning. The second intellectual dead end faced by sequential Determinists is the trap of reductionism, which they fall into on account of fragmenting wholes into their component parts. This deficiency was noted even by the ancient skeptics, as well as in modern times by Hume, who doubted that any event could be dictated by strict reason.

    Indeed, in building a long chain of cause and effect, it is difficult to avoid the danger of circularity, the risk of falling into circulus vitiosus—a vicious circle in the proof. Kurt Gödel's theorem on the incompleteness of formal systems, asserts that any sufficiently complex system of rules is either inconsistent, or contains conclusions that can be neither proven nor refuted by the rules of that system. This established limits in the applicability of formal logic. Using the deductive-axiomatic method, the medieval Scholastics in particular, attempted to rigorously prove the existence of God. Resulting from closure of causes in terms of effects, they circularly arrived at a definition of God as the thought which thinks of itself.

    Psychological Sphere

    Causal-Determinist cognition forges a mentality poorly protected from indoctrination, or in extreme cases, even brainwashing. By skillfully combining memorable words and actions, it is possible to gain control over the behavior of specific individuals. Intelligent Determinists in particular, are characterized by a strong dependence on the events of childhood, which Sigmund Freud discovered in his time, though poorly understood in full. Habits in pronounced Determinists are comparable in their rigidity to conditioned reflexes.

    Standard military interrogation procedures are designed to ensure guaranteed cause-effect impacts upon the psyche. It includes measures of exposure such as sleep deprivation, changes in room temperature and/or humidity, denial of food subsequently followed by its delivery as a reward, etc. Isolation of the detainee and the gradual imposition of regulations, bears fruit sooner or later. In time, the vulnerability of psychological destabilization is manufactured into dependence upon the interrogator.

    It is noteworthy that extreme critical situations, trigger a 'slow-motion film' state of mind in Determinists. Thinking becomes particularly clear, but stretched out over time, such that seconds can subjectively feel like minutes. Along these same lines, due to an abrupt shakeup of their psyche, the stress of surprise severely impedes their cerebral activity until they can recover in deep sleep.

    The psychological school of Behaviorism represents this model of the psyche. Its supporters believe that behavioral learning is achieved through reinforcement—rewarding adherence to rules and punishing their violation. B. F. Skinner formulated the principle of operant conditioning, according to which the behavior of living organisms is completely determined by the cause-effect of this conditioning. He proposed the method of 'successive approximations', in which students receive positive reinforcement in instances where their behavior conforms to that desired.

    Behaviorists developed the concept of conditioned learning and established a rigid procedural method of action towards the goal as the basis for its operation.

    Scientific Sphere

    Formal logical thinking in its time gave birth to the deterministic cause-effect worldview. This is the worldview of classical physics whose cornerstone is Newtonian Mechanics, and was the dominant paradigm until the early 20th century. Rigid systems operate according to these rules—organisms and mechanisms. When faced with multi-factor processes (such as psychology or society), however, reductionism loses its explanatory power to portray complex phenomena in terms of their basic components. Additionally, this classic paradigm has been too influenced by the ideal of 'progress', in spite of numerous historical examples of regressive tendencies, setbacks, repetitions, etc.

    A real-life model of Causal-Determinist cognition is given by information represented in the form of a chart or realistic illustration made using a direct perspective. In this technique, objects are depicted larger or smaller in proportion to their distance from the observer. By drawing in this way, following strict instructions, any object can be easily depicted.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko

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    Tom Cruise is ESE. I don't think Manson was SEE i wonder where you get that typing from? I think there'd been an old thread on him and some other type seems most likely

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    * I’m special * flames's Avatar
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    nah fam
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

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    No, not at all - a bunch of other types would be more prone to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I don't think Manson was SEE i wonder where you get that typing from? I think there'd been an old thread on him and some other type seems most likely


    It was a joke to see who would ask. Congrats you just earned his pic.








    I don't know what type he is btw. I haven't even made the effort of typing him for real. He's very creepy.

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    16ters are more prone to cultlike behavior than other types. Praise the Dalí Llama

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    I feel like Ep types inadvertently amass cult-like followings by virtue of being themselves

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    With the second point about rationality, I think all Fp types would, as would many Fjs. T types are rational, and don't worry too much about seeming it. The 2D logic of F types, on the other hand, is likely to form a fixation on rationality.
    cp6w7-3w2-8w7 sx/so ILE--D

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    Ip-types are the more likely to be intransigent about their opinions, stances, positions and beliefs - followed by Ejs, followed by Ijs, and Eps being the least likely. Above all else, Eps desire freedom while Ijs desire independence so these would usually be the more adverse to being strictly controlled - now if there were cults where freedom and independence were not constrained, there's a possibility. However, it's people with overriding personal issues regardless of type that are more likely to perceive cults as safe-havens.....
    a.k.a. I/O

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    empineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymaisy View Post
    Sales, selling, it's their thing.
    so you agree?

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    empineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    SEEs are not prone to cult-like behavior. They ARE a cult. And we are the loyal worshippers. This is the essence. Accept your fate because resistance to SEE's propagandistic charm is futile.
    Cool. Finally someone agreeing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keranos View Post
    WOW very very useful piece of information! Thanks! It all makes sense now! Such a bad supervision loop!!!

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    empineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerdle View Post
    With the second point about rationality, I think all Fp types would, as would many Fjs. T types are rational, and don't worry too much about seeming it. The 2D logic of F types, on the other hand, is likely to form a fixation on rationality.
    I have seen ISFps using the word "thinking" quite a lot; but ESFPs and the word "rational"? I like to see it from PoLR point of view. Ti PoLRs like to use the word "rational" regularly, and Te PoLR types may use the word "logical" for instance. Dunno

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    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empineer View Post
    Cool. Finally someone agreeing
    Let's adore them together

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    Will we start over, or circle the drain crazymaisy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empineer View Post
    so you agree?
    That SEE's are cult-like, yes!

    Selling is cult-ish, "you don't need to believe in what you sell to sell it." would be their tag line. I love them anyway.
    Maisy
    ILI-Ni (INTp)
    I think in pictures, moving pictures...

    Recommended Music - ILI-Ni



    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    I liked your post just because you mentioned the LGBT community.

    GAY GAY GAYGAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAAAAAAAYYYYYy.

    To my haters: No, I really don't care about anything other than homosexuality. Fuck off.

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    Alomoes's Avatar
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    Uh. No. I think. Depends. Hey, what cult do you mean, destructive or the other type I forget the name? Not destructive. Examples.

    Destructive is like Jim Jones.

    Not destructive is like Packers Football Wisconsin.

    I'm putting way too little effort into these posts.

    Actually, I do that. Uh see picture. More for the joke.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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