Everyone alpha likes Marnie (SEI), especially her ILE crush Alex.
Everyone alpha likes Marnie (SEI), especially her ILE crush Alex.
Saw While We're Young also directed by Noah Baumbach and I thought Ben Stiller's character in that was also definitely an ILE.Originally Posted by May
Definitely seems ILE from the Greenberg promo as well, perhaps a serious caricature of weakness in his vulnerable functions.
Suomea
I love it when LIIs try to dance.LII ?
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Oh and as I know people have asked about Fi POLR hits in ILEs... I think for people who have seen this movie, this is an excellent example of an Fi POLR hit from a main character (ILE) who mainly views interpersonal relationships through Fe.
Suomea
Gisele from High Tech Corvette - ISFP
Why do you consistently use all uppercase letters for your typings?
4-letter names of types are acronyms and hence it's more grammatically correct.
J in MBT = rational in Socionics, P = irrational. ISFP = SEI
Besides you may compare descriptions of rationality and judging in MBT and Socionics books and tests to sure they are identical, I'll cite you Jung's "Psychological Types":
"I term the two preceding types rational or judging types because they are characterized by the supremacy of the reasoning and the judging functions." (chapter X.B.III.5)
After description of types with leading Ti and Fi functions:
"Both the foregoing types are rational, since they are founded upon reasoning, judging functions." (chapter X.C.III.5)
Terms rational and judging were identical for Jung. MBT doesn't say it changed Jung's term "judging" for types and functions, but says it follows to Jung. And as we see from Socionics practice types with leading Ti, Fi behave as MBT's judging types, but not as perceiving ones (what MBT absurdly states).
Last edited by Sol; 07-02-2015 at 04:36 PM.
I don't think the conversion is that simple. What about tests that type by dichotomy, while another types by function? I wish we could just forget MBTI.
I mean no offense: you are entitled to your opinion.
MBT's main test MBTI is based on dichotomies only, - it's the only test they seriously use.
If they made an experimental test based on functions and still don't notice contradiction for introverted types J/P, this may have partly similar nature as their long-years adepts don't notice evident contradiction to Jung. Badly developed 8-functions descriptions (Socionics improved them), bad questions in test, bad testing procedure, bad analysis, keeping silent or falsification (where are money and threat to authority falsifications happen sometimes, even in normal science, not in "astrologies") - even 1 factor may explain why they don't change the model to correct Jung's one. Maybe there exist Western articles wich show MBT is wrong for introverts model, I don't know what happens in science magazines, including foreign ones, if Jung's typology has interest to it still among experimental psychologists.
From Socionics side I saw one semi-serious functional test - by Viktor Talanov. By results (at least hundreds of people were tested) he never said that Jung was wrong in thinking that types with leading Ti, Fi are rational/judging types, so I suppose there was good correlation.
Until MBT adepts will not begin intensively use besides preferences 8 functions, they have minor chance to understand they are wrong. While the ones who uses Socionics see as Jung's model is correct, there are not complaines to turn to MBT's model of introverted types.
MBT has excellent description of preferences. I think description for rational/irrational preference was taken by Socionics from MBT.I wish we could just forget MBTI.
Audience outside of USSR knows MBT and Jung, but has no idea about or distorted view what is Socionics. So it's good to use MBT's notation of types on English forums, - it's closer for them and rises chances of Socionics to be heard. While to write 4 letters instead of 3 to say type is not hard.
As descriptions of rational/irrational types in Socionics = descriptions of judging/perceiving types in MBT there is no fundamental problem to use MBT's notation. 4-letter code means only preferences/dichotomies and writing like ISFp is senseless. As you may understand arguments from opposite are saw many times. Maybe you'll share my opinion.
Have you seen MBTI dichotomy descriptions? They say superficial things to the effect of "all Js have clean rooms" etc. I don't trust MBTI primarily because the theory behind it is not substantial enough. The only thing it is good for is introducing people to Socionics, so I agree with you there.
Something important to remember is that MBTI types people based solely on their behaviors, without accounting for their actual personal desires. Socionics has a theoretical backbone of Model A, which organizes Jung's functions in a way specific to one of the 16 types. Functions have been indispensable to Socionics since its conception. MBTI, and you are right here, began with the 4 dichotomies, later superimposing a flawed model of Jung's functions. But the damage was already done: the theory to this day cannot penetrate into the actual personality of the typed person.
Also, if I remember correctly, the Socionics j/p was only introduced to try and attract people familiar with MBTI. They are lowercase for an important reason: to distinguish them from MBTI types. It was a silly decision, in my opinion, but I guess people will go lengths for publicity.
What I am saying here is that I don't think that the two systems can't be reconciled because their roots are too different. That's my view.
Probably not going to respond here anymore, because this belongs in another thread. Sorry for derailing a thread about Alpha examples, fellow Alphas.
Kot - ISFP
Dylan moran? LII?
^ I've been wondering about Dylan Moran's type for a while ... some have him as ILI others have him as ILE, not type quite feels like it
this has got to be one of the most adorable ILEs around - Andrey Malakhov - ILE-Ti (sp/so 7w8)
married to an LSE :'(
Last edited by silke; 09-13-2015 at 05:53 AM.
I initially assumed ILI for Dylan Moran, but rethought to Ne-LII afterwards. Rethinking again, he might just be ILI... My perceptions are fairly fickle about him.
Kim Dotcom....ILE 3w2 sp/so ?
I would say LSE
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
imo Dylan Moran is for sure an ILE, and so is his character in Black Books (an Alpha series). along with Moran's ILE character in the show, there is Tamsein Greig's LII character, and Bill Bailey's character is SEI.
Ella Eyre - ESE, possibly
Justine Frischmann - ILE, possibly
Alpha Collection
ILE-Ne Zooey Deschanel
ILE-Ti Donald Sutherland
SEI-Si Geoffrey Rush
SEI-Fe Natalie Dormer
LII-Ti Jeff Goldblum
LII-Ne Kristin Scott Thomas
ESE-Fe Tom Cruise
ESE-Si George Clooney
Andrey Malakhov - ISFP
Zooey Deschanel - INFP
Geoffrey Rush - INTP
Natalie Dormer - ISFP, yes
Jeff Goldblum - ENTJ
Kristin Scott Thomas - INFJ
George Clooney - ESFP
4 pack: Hafez Assad, Pierre Trudeau, and Helmut Berger come in as ILE through Hoogstraten
hmm, none of these people give the impression of trustworthy. is that how ne manifests?
Bruce Lee...ILE 7w8-8w9-3w4 so/sp
Enneagram:
He looks too fierce for a 3 and was too fierce for a 3. 3 action stars like schwarzenegger come across wooden. Lee had no problem coming across as the real thing due to his own natural fierceness. That leaves 7w8 and 8w7 as the only real contenders. 7w8 > 8w7
7w8 and 8w7 can look similar. 7w8s are more refined and fitness focused than 8w7s. 8w7s are cruder and more blunt. 7w8s have a sleeker quality. 8w7s have a more primitive quality. 8w7s exploit the environment for intensity. 7w8s pump intensity into the environment. 7w8s make better marathon runners. 8w7s have a 'heavier' energy, 'lower to the ground,' with a more clipped speech. 7w8s are lighter on their feet.
Stacking:
he attained a global presence. he wanted to unify all the different schools of martial arts into one elite fighting system.
Socionics (cognition):
since he's 7w8, that eliminates any of the introverted types for him.
ILE > SLE: he has an innovative cognition. he innovates by envisioning the potential for something novel in martial arts. He's got his eye fixed on the possibilities such that he combines the essentials of various karate systems into his own unique, personal fighting system. ILE cognition is the most synthetic. so/sp 7w8 ILE are what I call ultimate guinea pigs for the novel...they hold themselves out as proof that the novel (or even the impossible) is in fact real....
Lee is sometimes typed LSI, but I would suggest that's another case where so/sp can easily be mistaken for, or even mistake themselves as, LSI.
Bruce Lee - ESTP
Ti-ESTp / Ti-ISTj
Conclusive discussion if you want to learn about his type: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0663-Bruce-Lee
Te-ISTp4 pack: Hafez Assad, Pierre Trudeau, and Helmut Berger come in as ILE through Hoogstraten
Delta4 pack: Hafez Assad, Pierre Trudeau, and Helmut Berger come in as ILE through Hoogstraten
[QUOTE=mclane;1094675]ILE-Ti Donald Sutherland
[/quot]
ISTj / ENFj
Chris Messina - LII ?
:X
INTJ
emilysingsmusic26 - ISFP
Last edited by Sol; 08-02-2015 at 01:19 PM.
What do you think of Elisabeth Olsen ? Her name was mentioned on PerC in a thread about possible ENTP female celebrities. I can't tell if she is an ENTp (or ESFj or anyhting else) but she seems very alpha to me !
She sounds more serious in the second video, but I still can see alpha for her.
After watching those videos I would have guessed SEE ... SEEs are kind of superficially similar to ENTps - they share temperament, positivism, same style of thinking, but they inevitably come through as more serious and more detailed in how they talk about their life.
possibly ESE-Si so/sx - Joe Santagato
Andriana Megits - ISFP
Maria Shinkevich - ESFJ
Elisabeth Olsen - INFP. same as her sister
Joe Santagato looks T or/and introvert
Last edited by Sol; 08-03-2015 at 09:59 PM.
I would have gone with SLI from that interview alone - couple things have stood out: accentuation of action verbs in his stories ("my wife took the kids out" "I went back" "this woman comes to the house" etc.) typical of "dynamic" types, past-turned introverted expression typical of IPs, ultra-soft and gentle gesturing almost like pouring half a bottle of Febreze fabric softner into the laundry machine, and something else I've forgotten now that reminded me of SLIs.
Matt Abrahams - possibly ESE-Si
Kathi Malfa - INTJ
Sara Rubin - ILE
Ella Mielniczenko - SEI
Si bonding between ILE and SEI duals?
+buzzfeed+
The sleepy Si stare of SEIs?
s
Yes...
That was just
In any case alpha NT Ti-sub. His hamburger restaurant scene was not representation of 2D Si. It was just horrifying just like mine.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 08-19-2015 at 08:39 AM.
"Oyster"....LII 3w4 sp/sx
Strange.
So strange.
So why is he LII over LIE? Vid seems pretty logics of actions.
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