Title says it all
Se Vulnerable vs Suggestive. What is the difference, both in theory and practical use?
Title says it all
EIIs and LIIs are not naturally receptive towards Se jokes and playfulness like IEIs and ILIs are. Don't try to wrestle them, steal their hat or anything like that.
considering models G has his covered. As I understand it
PoLR: somewhat mute. Might passively resist. Low outcomes.
suggestive: Ready to take part in it if it tickles in the right way. Might achieve something.
role: OK, let's do it. Energy kind of adjustable. Maintenance sort of grind.
mobilizing: The most conflicted presentation. Does not really know what it wants. Low outcomes. Some flashes.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
stealing someones hat or phone or wahtever is just annoyingOriginally Posted by Cataclysm
what if i dont have the energy or not in the "mood" for that
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
I always think of PoLR as the function which can be shown in one particular pattern. Wait for someone to complain and then offer them a solution. If they say ‘well I can’t just ____’ and talk of how they know it’s a particular pain in their ass but they are helpless to it, that is your opportunity to look for clues. My mother is Se PoLR and if I mention something about even the tiniest large scale, significant effect being Se related and positive, she will give a parallel from a “more effective solution” which is totally how things should have gone.
like when they observe how it’s a very big portion of what people use in behaviour… but that they would find a way to do things differently… “I can’t just walk up to someone and directly give them an indication of how I need them to stop”.
Last edited by Higgy56; 05-07-2022 at 09:49 AM.
Have a few quips at hand or just say it isn't funny. If they're retarded and don't listen you can be retarded back and just bull rush them or something.
Ah, high school politics.
sometthing u are hyperreactive sensitive sociopath snowflake that doesnt know how to take a joke
1 u hurt someone over a joke
2 u deal with the social consequences - u will not be treated well there anymore nor any place they work with in the future, and will spread about u and how stupid u are.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
You're overthinking this.
it seems reasonable to me the possibility that people would escalate. lol it wont be as bad as i said probably but it could still ensue drama, one case u end up looking pathetic bc their combeacks are better and ur weak and u just want ur damn phone
it happenned to ESE and she started crying
no big deal but is anything really. big things go to shit and some ppl just want to be a menace about the small.
wait as i said what if u have no energy. if u bull rush them u get even more exhausted just about right to get yelled at home for not doing anything and by teachers for not paying attention etc.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Yeah you gotta learn to find balance in all that. Trial and error. Most people forget that you did something pathetic once. It's when it turns into a pattern they start to notice. That's the thing about polr Se though: they'd rather do anything else than fail at Se. I believe they believe it's evil and they'll blame everyone and everything before they admit that they should be better at it. That's what's truly pathetic.
And also, if you're young, exhausted all the time and care about your teachers and parents opinion of you, you're doing something wrong.
Last edited by Cataclysm; 04-30-2022 at 05:58 PM.
Se Suggestive often wants to get stronger, admires strong people (it's not uncommon for Se Suggestive to get into strength training for example). Se PoLR/Vulnerable is "allergic" to Se and most likely automatically is repulsed by those kinds of people, more often than not is also impotent in some fashion like Kant.
Well, I'm not an expert, but can talk about my PoLR Se. If Se is in your values, then fasten your seat belts please
1) I am very inert and first say "No", and only then I think whether I need what was offered.
2) Also, I'm too lazy to do anything if it needs to get out of my comfort zone. It would be much more interesting to know how to get there.
3) I perceive competition on an interpersonal level as abnormal. If somebody is trying to show that he is better than me, then he is going to compete with me, right? And if he competes with me, then we are enemies? Then why should I be tolerant, courteous and try to consider the interests of my enemy? As you understand, such logic can lead to inadequate reactions.
4) Unlike most other peole, I do not like to talk about my success in anything, for example, to make presentations about the results of my work. Obviously, if you do this, then sooner or later a crowd of useless people will gather around you, who will constantly beg for something. Instead, I try to choose myself before whom to show my best side and not in words, but in deeds.
5) It becomes funny to me when the aggressors try to present themselves as cooler than they really are.
6) Sometimes, EIE and LIE are perceived annoying with their attempts to "test the boundaries". By the way, it seems to me that EIE can be more dangerous and unpredictable than SLE, who usually know what they are doing and don't attack without a reason.
7) By the way, I don’t really understand how a person can have boundaries. It seems to be a silly term from talk shows for housewives, in which psychologists explain to them how to continue not to value themselves and live with an alcoholic who beats them.
8) IEI and ILI evoke sympathy and at first seem normal, but then it starts to seem that IEI have no pride, and ILI have low self-esteem. For example, I knew one amazing ILI woman who was incredibly smart, had an excellent education, a good position in a large company, and apparently a very good income. Besides work, she was fond of photography and took beautiful photos (which were all in grayscale format) When she spoke, it seemed that she, like an Oracle, sees and understands everything and is only waiting for the world to move forward faster, and her expectations to come true. But one day she mentioned that she would not go on vacation abroad, but would rest at home because her husband was military and could not leave the country. It was a shock to me, because she could choose a person of her level, but instead she married a man who earns two or three times less than her and limits her opportunities. In addition, in my picture of the world, the military occupies a place at the level of guard dogs. It is hard for me to imagine why a normal physically healthy man, instead of finding a job, could choose to serve someone without producing anything useful.
All this looks a bit strange, of course, and can even be perceived as offensive, so usually I try not to talk about Se topics with normal people. Anyway, take a look on the text in bold, most likely, this is what suggestive Se is.
This is actually facts. two of my friends are brothers, SLE and IEI. Funny enough the SLE is the younger brother but is much bigger than his IEI brother, but the IEI brother practices jujitsu. SLE loves to wrestle his brother anywhere anytime, it can get embrassing because they will do it in the middle of a parking lot, and it gets intense, strangers don't know if they are serious or not. SLE play wrestled me one time and tried to actually choke me out, I'm not trained so I don't know when or how to tap out, so I almost went to sleep and it was not fun, I had no idea he was gonna go that far, even when I said "Hey man that was way too much" he was all like "Whaaaaat?! It's not a big deal, you're fine." like he didn't wanna hear it at all.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-01-2022 at 09:50 AM.
That's the problem with the PoLR, you don't have balance with it. It's not just "I'd rather do anything else than fail at Se." it's also a super skewed black and white extreme view of Se. When people try to push me or even nudge me to Se by saying things like "man up" "stand up for yourself" "What are you gonna do about it, bitch?". I don't think of some "balanced" use of Se, I do think of evil shit, or just really overboard shit like maybe I should buy a gun to intimidate the next person that does this to me and scare the shit out of this person, or do something extreme to get this person to stop, I mean I've watched videos on where you need to hit someone on the head to knock them unconscious, not bull rush or whatever you mentioned earlier. I usually think the person in front of me needs to be knocked unconscious somehow so they could never do what they did to me again and so they can't Se me back because that is the last thing I want and also feel I could even deal with, so the threat needs to be absolutely neutralized. So my Se options are ones I can't choose and also I can't handle someone elses Se so that's why I never "Se" them, if you're gonna throw a rock don't live in a glass house. Whatever is inbetween overboard action and inaction I don't see, so damned if I do and damned if I don't. It is not a balanced view at all, and simply saying get a balanced view of your PoLR, well it wouldn't be a PoLR if it were that simple.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-01-2022 at 09:54 AM.
Cool reply.
Interesting because while a person has the energy to address their suggestive, they do not have the energy to address their polr.
This is why having a dual who adequately supports your polr with their demo might be more soothing to you than a dual whose lead supports your suggestive
A person doesn't value their demo so won't really give a shit about their dual being a polr retard. A person does care for their lead and will appreciates a dual who cares for their own suggestive function. That's just my opinion on it
I agree with your descriptions of Se PoLR. During middle school, I was thought of as a bit strung up due to me being very protective of my personal bubble.
IEIs and ILIs aren't great at using Se, but they definitely seem able to handle it.
IEIs and ILIs are in awe of Se, in ways that seem weird to me. I've seen IEIs and ILIs that want to accomplish some hard challenge, my Si is like "why the stress?", I've seen Se types hail Dark Souls as the greatest game franchise ever. My ILI friend would even look at you like "You're weak" if you don't embrace Se, but at the same time if he perceives someone as weak but they later do some Se feat like start taking mma classes or climb a mountain he gets insecure and even says "I wish I could do that." I've had my ILI friend make fun of me for tiring quick in a basketball game, but when I made fun of him for not even playing at all all of the sudden I'm the asshole. I think Se PoLR and Se suggestive can both be equally insecure about it and desire to be better at it, but it's Se suggestive that seeks it out and respects people highly based off it, and is more willing to look silly attempting Se. When I see a super high Se user I can easily get uncomfortable, but it seems like IXIs have a respect for them.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-02-2022 at 08:38 AM.
This is super similar to how I feel about it too.. My defenses go up when people are actually aggressive (towards others and/or me), especially when done in a way that doesn't respect autonomy or is mean-spirited. But when it comes to others being playfully aggressive with me, I love it.
Yeah I pissed myself alot with my weak Se.
I do have "the strong vs the weak" mindset. And even though I know very well this take is too simple for something as complicated as life, I can't stop myself from having this mindset sometime (feel guilty). Along with my Sp nature, people who are weak and like to complain too much about their life problems, or the world's problems without taking real action to fix things annoy me.
But of course it's not really true, complaining is a social behaviour, and it do have effect at solving problems, and we see it alot in polictics. It's just my So last and my Fe polr would never truly understand it.
Last edited by Tarnished; 05-02-2022 at 04:26 AM.
Nah I don't relate to this at all. Anytime someone steals my phone or playfully hits me it feels like they are challenging me and either I have to do something to get them to stop or forever let myself be treated poorly, my will is being tested by another person and I do not like that at all. When I was a kid I was more annoying like this, but to kids much smaller than me so no "Se" fear.
The only aggressive contact I like to make is tackle football, because there are clear rules and if I get tackled once I'm down they are done, and if I tackle them once they are down they don't get to get up and start a fight with me because it's a game. So these clear cut rules allow me to play with my Se without negative consequences, and that's what makes it fun.
Yea but this Se judgement of strong and weak can be 2 shallow at times. Ok a guy did some macho thing once and now he's "strong", no. This judgement's 2 easily persuaded sometimes, at least from what I've seen. I've seen it with LIE too, I knew a guy that used to treat me like shit, but once I got a job and he heard my job position all of the sudden now he's showing me respect and trying to team up with me on projects, and doesn't even realize my job wasn't as prestigious as he thought it was, he did this based off the title alone, essentially he was fooled by his own judgement. I remember one time I climbed a tree and my ILI friend looked jealous.
But as far as willing to look silly.
Like I've seen my ILI friend try and shoot a basketball and look completely goofy and uncoordinated, but he's out there trying. I've also seen my IEI friend try to box and look totally goofy and uncoordinated doing it, but hey he's trying, Se PoLR if there's a chance at looking goofy it's a hard no of even trying.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-02-2022 at 08:43 AM.
I was hanging with an SLI and EII. The SLI was showing the EII what movements to use in a knife fight, without actually using knives. The EII was basically flinching and backing away. When the SLI's back was turned, he did a mock kick to his side. The SLI was aware and then the EII tried to run away. Needless to say, the EII was not cut out for fighting. Not to say EIIs cannot fight with proper training, but it just seemed to be a very Se vulnerable moment.
The ILI who was staying with my wife and I briefly was instead more fascinated by gore and violence and liked to talk about and imagine what he might do in a fight with a specific set of weapons. I could tell it stimulated him mentally. He also put up pretty well with his SEE wife ordering him around and telling him what to do. The EII, on the other hand, dreaded when his neighbor would come by to talk his head off but didn't really know how to tell him to eff off.
So it is interesting to see how different people handle situations that can be abrasive or potentially confrontational.
This is interesting, I have Se PoLR but I'm still somewhat athletic and don't have a hard time being coordinated with my body, whether it be martial arts, sports or dancing or taking instructions on how to physically do something correctly, so I never related to the clumsy gym class hating EII stereotype, I loved gym. It's also rare that something falls out of my hands and hits the ground because my reflexes usually catch it before I can even comprehend what happened, don't know if reflexes and coordination are type related though.
But yes this is definitely true for me and does seem very connected to me Se PoLR, it's that pressure from other people and trying to either impose my will on them or defend from them imposing their will on me in a balanced way that seems to be difficult and painful. And the days I do finally have the balls to tell them to eff off I feel like crap after.The ILI who was staying with my wife and I briefly was instead more fascinated by gore and violence and liked to talk about and imagine what he might do in a fight with a specific set of weapons. I could tell it stimulated him mentally. He also put up pretty well with his SEE wife ordering him around and telling him what to do. The EII, on the other hand, dreaded when his neighbor would come by to talk his head off but didn't really know how to tell him to eff off.
So it is interesting to see how different people handle situations that can be abrasive or potentially confrontational.
"IEIs enjoy being bullied, EIIs hate it and will call the real world authorities/forum moderators and act all snobby about it"
j/k. Although I do think EIIs are more likely to do that than IEIs are to enjoy being abused- but that's my own biases.
This is a good question. I would say its a matter of being potentially open to other people's input about it. Suggestive is..suggestive. What's the difference between Te & Se? Te covers a lot wider of an area, both Te and Fe focus on what society is doing more than an individual. Both Te & Fe are Karens. Se is power, but more personal static and contained.
I don't think many people enjoy being talked down to or condescended to or even 'taught' - unless they are very masochistic which isn't necessarily an IEI or EII. I think with socionics its more about dualizing/helping somebody without them even realizing they are being helped or assisted. You can bark demands at somebody and annoy them... and they might listen to you superficially if they are getting something out of the deal in a transactional way. But did they actually value what you said personally? I think that's the key difference.
The EIIs I knew kinda enjoyed filling out job applications and learning about objective data and being more 'worldly' in a Te society way and that stuff makes me vomit. When they got their jobs at the Delta soup kitchens they seemed so happy and excited to be there like Maritsa at her first day at summer camp. I just really didn't like it , and would rather be throat fucked on a porno set I guess. Everybody says how degrading and wrong that is as if it's so objective. Well no- that's just you honey.
I stereotypically fell in love with a violent SLE thug that was never violent with me- because I knew how to talk to him right idk.
I'm very 50-50 in this regard. When I was little, I refused to play softball at a summer camp because I thought it was too violent. Until puberty in general, I preferred playing with girls over boys as I had deemed them less aggressive. Nowadays I quite enjoy exercising and physical activity in general, I'm almost always walking about, but it rarely uses force. Beskova's male profile describes this well, "...having grown up and obtained a more muscular body, they can be drawn to yoga, martial arts, cross-country skiing, and other types of sports, which require speed and fast reaction time. They make an exception of sports that require application of force, where aggressiveness is the main factor, where one needs to fight and collide with opponents."This is interesting, I have Se PoLR but I'm still somewhat athletic and don't have a hard time being coordinated with my body, whether it be martial arts, sports or dancing or taking instructions on how to physically do something correctly, so I never related to the clumsy gym class hating EII stereotype, I loved gym. It's also rare that something falls out of my hands and hits the ground because my reflexes usually catch it before I can even comprehend what happened, don't know if reflexes and coordination are type related though.
Oh, I also lose things constantly, which is a stereotype for Ne egos. I spent 15 minutes trying to find my phone last night that was in my jacket pocket all along.
Lol. Seems like Se/Si PoLR both have high aversion towards irrational real world games.
I wonder how Si suggestives like to receive irrational sensing.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Do you like hanging out with people who say shit like "Let's roll", and "You don't have to flex if you know you have the nuts?"
If you said yes, you're Se valuing. If no, then not.
There are already good answers on here, but I'll add. It's really the difference between one being a point that is avoided and another that is not. Se PoLR will not want to acknowledge the importance or impact that Se has on the world. Se suggestive does this and appreciates more insight that can help them expand upon it.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Makes sense. An example of LII *MIGHT* be @Alive as he's such a fucking pussy he doesn't even like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
Yeah that is a good distinction, I meant it more how you put it where Se PoLRs avoid directly participating in this IE themselves. Not really denying its impact around them.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
omg this happened to me and now I feel bad about it. basically this boy on accident nudged my foot, it didn't even hurt but then these two girls started to laugh about it and I wasn't mad, just really uncomfortable. so I could've responded better and had the guts to say more, but i just sat there laughing and at the same time coming off as cold. whether that's possibile idk but it kinda went from me laughing and then just not answering to anything they were saying, and the next day I slammed my phone down really hard. then the girl from the other day looked at me like she may think I was mad about what happen, but maybe that's just my ne thinking too much now.
Yes internally games like Dark Souls actually destress us.
Maybe I was drunk. Coulda sworn you typed yourself as ILE.
Pretty sure Si suggestives appreciate care being taken in the environment, they appreciate bpeople who are gentle and who have a good sense of what exactly makes them comfortable and healthy.
Sorry I first read this as distress, lol projecting, but you said destress ok, wow. I don't understand how something super difficult destresses you.
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