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Thread: Adventures in Dating

  1. #481
    Dreymagine's Avatar
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    Random ramble about dating even though I have not been dating:

    I've always known this to some extent, but really clicked in my brain the other day that my level of self-development is not where it needs to be at in order for me to have a healthy romantic relationship.

    I think I had this delusion/fantasy that, if I found the right guy and he liked me back, it would somehow work out fabulously despite all my issues. But the reality is that I wouldn't want to date someone with my current amount of insecurity, anxiety, bad habits, and spiritual doubts. So, it was pretty silly for me to think any boyfriend would put up with that in my case—or even could put up with that, without me draining his energy and ultimately being a negative force in his life. If I was in a serious relationship right now, I'd either have to somehow hide parts of myself to seem like a healthy individual or drag all my current garbage into the relationship. Not to mention, even if there's a guy who would/could put up with all my problems without being negatively affected by them, the fun of going on dates would be ruined by my social anxiety and insecurity. I feel like, on a date, I'd be totally self-conscious, fixated on whether or not I'm "good enough" rather than enjoying the moment and figuring out whether my date and I truly compatible. I obviously need to feel confident in being "good enough" before I go on any date because, otherwise, my dating experience might turn into a stressful validation-chasing experience.

    I guess I finally feel 100% content with being single, though for pathetic/sad reasons lol.

  2. #482
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    You come across as a nice and kind person to me, @Dreymagine. I haven't noticed yet any of your quirks, but of course I'm just a series of ones and zeroes passed on from Europe to the States, so I don't know you that well. I think that it's important that you find someone who isn't afraid to accept that we're human beings and that you have your struggles too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Not to mention, even if there's a guy who would/could put up with all my problems without being negatively affected by them, the fun of going on dates would be ruined by my social anxiety and insecurity. I feel like, on a date, I'd be totally self-conscious, fixated on whether or not I'm "good enough" rather than enjoying the moment and figuring out whether my date and I truly compatible. I obviously need to feel confident in being "good enough" before I go on any date because, otherwise, my dating experience might turn into a stressful validation-chasing experience.
    Are you aware that the best way to become more confident and less anxious about something is through exposure therapy? It is also known as get yourself out of your head and into the dating zone, so you can gain experience and feel more self-assured.



    I respect @Adam Strange, but my Fi is basically screaming out at his advice to date multiple people at the same time. To put it lightly, it's a high risk, no increased reward tactic, which makes absolutely no sense to me. Since you haven't spoken to the SLE for over a year, it doesn't matter if you don't for a few more months. And even if you have already texted him you can just keep it amicably for now. Focus on the SEE first, because he has showed active interest in you at present, whereas you have no clue yet if the SLE is still available. I'd suggest that you only date one person at the time, @Bethany, in order to not risk losing them all. No-one likes being seen as the second choice, so it risks them simply moving onto someone else who does see the Se-dom as number #1, like they want to be perceived as.
    Last edited by Armitage; 04-23-2022 at 05:57 PM.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I respect @Adam Strange, but my Fi is basically screaming out at his advice to date multiple people at the same time. To put it lightly, it's a high risk, no increased reward tactic, which makes absolutely no sense to me.
    Mine did as well at first, but I also think it's efficient. When you're conflicted between two, it can be helpful to explore both avenues until you can decide. Whether they are ok with this or not is a subjective matter, and you're right, it's a risky one.

    If I was put into that position, I wouldn't like it and I'd see myself out and tell them to go for the other girl. I don't believe in competing, though; I believe if you're not sold on me, you're not the one for me. I want someone with stronger conviction in their feelings for me than that. I want to be unquestionably adored, cherished, valued, like I'm the one and there's no doubt. Bonnie and Clyde.



    I recognize that is subjective and hold no one else to that standard when giving relationship advice, but I do make it known that there are going to be some people like me: you will lose one by going for both with some people. For others, my input differs...

    A certain distance would need to be maintained in order to successfully pull this off without harming anyone. If you can maintain that distance and then make a choice once it begins to close, you should be fine. It is, at that point, mere interest. There's nothing wrong with having an interest in two people that you know, as long as things don't begin to get intimate with both. Intimacy is where you draw the line - that can be physical, emotional, all sorts of things. Too many to rattle off here. If you don't confidently have control of the psychological distance between yourself and others, I wouldn't advise it, lest you overstep your boundaries. If you think you can maintain it at that: friendship with some contained interest in more...it's really not risky. That is just crushing on more than one person you're not with while making a decision.


  4. #484
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    I've never been on a date yet, but there's this guy who always catches my attention , even though we're interested in each other there was no real contact between us (I've made some plans so I can talk to him face to face - while pretending that what's happening is just a random coincidence - but every time I implement it , it fails due to many reasons ( for example: the school makes a sudden decision without informing us, so the timing of the plan fails )


    However, on one day he decided to take the first step, but this is what happened:

    He approached me a little, and by chance I opened my mouth completely so I could yawn, when I saw him I was ashamed, and I immediately turned my face, because of his low Fi , he thought I did not want him, so he got confused , stopped for a second and then went away


    Silly story but anyway ....
    Souls know their way back home

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I respect @Adam Strange, but my Fi is basically screaming out at his advice to date multiple people at the same time. To put it lightly, it's a high risk, no increased reward tactic, which makes absolutely no sense to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    @Armitage …My Fi is also screaming.
    Well, here’s the thing. You can’t always control when people come into your life, and you probably can’t know a person very well, right away. At least, that’s true in my case.
    For me, the dating stage is when I’m getting to know a person, and that person is getting to know me. Friends first, maybe, then if they like me, too, maybe something more. If things don’t look like “forever” and we decide not to get closer, then neither of us feels shocked or surprised or betrayed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    Mine did as well at first, but I also think it's efficient. When you're conflicted between two, it can be helpful to explore both avenues until you can decide. Whether they are ok with this or not is a subjective matter, and you're right, it's a risky one. .
    I’m not really conflicted very often, but I am usually unsure. Fi is the ability to assign a clear, personal value to things, and I don't do Fi well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    If I was put into that position, I wouldn't like it and I'd see myself out and tell them to go for the other girl. I don't believe in competing, though; I believe if you're not sold on me, you're not the one for me. I want someone with stronger conviction in their feelings for me than that. I want to be unquestionably adored, cherished, valued, like I'm the one and there's no doubt.
    This is absolutely true for every ESI that I’ve ever met. So far, none of them have felt that way about me, too.
    Maybe I’m waiting for the same thing. Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    I recognize that is subjective and hold no one else to that standard when giving relationship advice, but I do make it known that there are going to be some people like me: you will lose one by going for both with some people. For others, my input differs...

    A certain distance would need to be maintained in order to successfully pull this off without harming anyone. If you can maintain that distance and then make a choice once it begins to close, you should be fine. It is, at that point, mere interest. There's nothing wrong with having an interest in two people that you know, as long as things don't begin to get intimate with both. Intimacy is where you draw the line - that can be physical, emotional, all sorts of things. Too many to rattle off here. If you don't confidently have control of the psychological distance between yourself and others, I wouldn't advise it, lest you overstep your boundaries. If you think you can maintain it at that: friendship with some contained interest in more...it's really not risky. That is just crushing on more than one person you're not with while making a decision.
    This is actually very perceptive. It’s exactly how I close the distance in relationships. Sometimes, the other person wants to grow closer, but usually, they don’t.

    I’ve been in a lot of relationships, and have been in love with many of the women. Some of them have been in love (or so it appeared) with me, but I’ve only ever asked one woman to marry me, and she refused. She wanted to just keep on having sex and living in our own respective places. I gave her an ultimatum and she finally agreed, but marriage was not something that she wanted in her future.

    So, when it comes to some kind of magical meeting of two like minds and two hearts beating as one, that hasn’t happened to me yet. That state of simultaneity has eluded me, hence I just show up and see where the woman is headed.

    There is one other complication. When two people are very young, they neither know so well how things turn out, nor do they have a lot of material possessions to complicate a joint venture. This makes commitment a lot easier, believe it or not.

  6. #486
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decqueen View Post
    He approached me a little, and by chance I opened my mouth completely so I could yawn, when I saw him I was ashamed, and I immediately turned my face, because of his low Fi , he thought I did not want him, so he got confused , stopped for a second and then went away
    So he's a logical fellow? Then the solution is simple, just walk up to him and be forthright about why you turned away. If he's genuinely interested into you, he'll give you a second chance. As a practical tip, the next time that you yawn cover your mouth with your hand, because that's the polite thing to do instead of turning away. While I write this part about yawning, I'm constantly yawning myself and covering my mouth with my hand. Yawning is so infectious, LOL.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I suppose getting Tinder or something is the most surefire way to get dating experience, though that idea makes me nervous. Not nervous in terms of safety.. more like, in terms of word getting around that I'm on a dating app—because they have a pretty bad rep where I live. I've heard it generalized that everyone on Tinder around here is either ugly or just looking for sex.
    "Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter."
    --- Bernard Baruch

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    My best bet is probably just to focus my energy on self-improvement / platonic connections and patiently hope that, sometime down the line, a romantic relationship forms organically without me having to pursue it through extra activities or a dating app.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius


    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt



    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    I recognize that is subjective and hold no one else to that standard when giving relationship advice, but I do make it known that there are going to be some people like me: you will lose one by going for both with some people. For others, my input differs...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    you will lose both by going for both
    I fixed it for you.
    Seriously @Bethany, it's better to serially date than to multitask in dating. The SEE you spoke to recently, so you know that he's single and interested into you. In contrast, you haven't spoken with the SLE for over a year, if the SLE has remained single and is willing to get back in touch again with you after a year of no communication between the two of you, then he's probably also willing to do so after a year and some months, so he's no priority, but the SEE is. Give the SEE your undivided attention and if things don't work out between him and you, you can always get back to the SLE later. This way you can eat your cake and have it too, while also playing it safe instead of gambling your dates away.
    Last edited by Armitage; 04-23-2022 at 09:14 PM.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    So he's a logical fellow? Then the solution is simple, just walk up to him and be forthright about why you turned away. If he's genuinely interested into you, he'll give you a second chance. As a practical tip, the next time that you yawn cover your mouth with your hand, because that's the polite thing to do instead of turning away. While I write this part about yawning, I'm constantly yawning myself and covering my mouth with my hand. Yawning is so infectious, LOL.

    Jesus. I just read this and caught myself yawning. Lol.

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    @Armitage thanks Armitage, I’ll see how it goes. I do want to meet the SEE too. I only had 2 dates with the SLE..maybe just one more to see..

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I just read this and caught myself yawning.
    It's the empathy region of your brain that gets activated by observing or reading about other people's behaviours. We feel closer to friends and family and with it the brain activity of our empathy region scales. It triggers mirror neurons to mimic these behaviours in yourself, in order to fit better into the social group. People enjoy being around like minded others, even simple things such as having a music interest in common, a shared parenting stage, or mimicked behaviours increase your chance of being hired by the job interviewer, despite such diffuse status characteristics having no overlap with the job requirements.

    Why is it that we like having things in common with others so much? Because it confirms our worldview. There exists no way to measure our worldview objectively, but what comes closest is by consulting others for their perception. The more people who confirm our beliefs, the likelier it becomes that they are correct. But encountering disagreement with our worldview suggests that it is an inaccurate model of reality and that we should change our beliefs. It is a very energy intensive and time consuming process to change our worldview, hence we are rather not showed to be wrong. Because food used to be a scarce throughout most of our evolution, it was important to save energy. This meant that sometimes it was more convenient to hide from the truth and ignore it, so we could use our limited time and energy to focus on hunting for and gathering food instead of philosophizing about the nature of reality. This habitual ignorance still remains strong with quite some people even in the 21st century, unfortunately.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I do want to meet the SEE too. I only had 2 dates with the SLE..maybe just one more to see..
    Be prepared to make a choice, though. Best of luck, Beth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I fixed it for you.
    Seriously @Bethany, it's better to serially date than to multitask in dating.
    Not necessarily. I am not caught up with the specific case being spoken about here and I am speaking in general, but people are different. Polyamory is pretty common these days as well. Peoples' values vary. I get that you feel strongly about your own personal judgment on the matter, but the strength of your conviction doesn't equate to fact. Values are subjective, there isn't a one size fits all.

    There are two things here that LIEs notoriously struggle with IME (at some point, though they might have grown past it already as well):
    1) Trusting their own judgment to the point of steamrolling others
    2) Projecting how they are/would be onto others in order to understand them, rather than taking into account the individual


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, here’s the thing. You can’t always control when people come into your life, and you probably can’t know a person very well, right away. At least, that’s true in my case.
    For me, the dating stage is when I’m getting to know a person, and that person is getting to know me. Friends first, maybe, then if they like me, too, maybe something more. If things don’t look like “forever” and we decide not to get closer, then neither of us feels shocked or surprised or betrayed.



    I’m not really conflicted very often, but I am usually unsure. Fi is the ability to assign a clear, personal value to things, and I don't do Fi well.



    This is absolutely true for every ESI that I’ve ever met. So far, none of them have felt that way about me, too.
    Maybe I’m waiting for the same thing. Lol.



    This is actually very perceptive. It’s exactly how I close the distance in relationships. Sometimes, the other person wants to grow closer, but usually, they don’t.

    I’ve been in a lot of relationships, and have been in love with many of the women. Some of them have been in love (or so it appeared) with me, but I’ve only ever asked one woman to marry me, and she refused. She wanted to just keep on having sex and living in our own respective places. I gave her an ultimatum and she finally agreed, but marriage was not something that she wanted in her future.

    So, when it comes to some kind of magical meeting of two like minds and two hearts beating as one, that hasn’t happened to me yet. That state of simultaneity has eluded me, hence I just show up and see where the woman is headed.

    There is one other complication. When two people are very young, they neither know so well how things turn out, nor do they have a lot of material possessions to complicate a joint venture. This makes commitment a lot easier, believe it or not.
    That's true, about the material possessions. I never thought of that. However, I can't imagine material things being too big of an issue to resolve for two people who genuinely want love to work out. As for how things turn out...lmao, I probably can't Ni enough to do that when I'm old, either...so there is also personality to factor in with that in general, maybe.

    I think with @Armitage it's perhaps just a lack of comfort with this matter...basically, low Fi resulting in you not knowing how to navigate it in a way that makes it fine and not risky, Armitage. I feel like I'm seeing ways it's possible to do it so that it would not be a stop sign to me, even, with as rigid as I am about it. It's just that there are certain ways things must be navigated as far as psychological distance goes.


  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Armitage thanks Armitage, I’ll see how it goes. I do want to meet the SEE too. I only had 2 dates with the SLE..maybe just one more to see..
    My only advice is to ensure that you're certain prior to moving forward with a decision. You don't want that other person you didn't choose to become a back door, like "maybe I made the wrong choice" while you're trying to move forward with someone and you land on some fight or a rough patch. It's hard to be fully committed when the other person is in the back of your mind, like "what if I had gone for them instead..." Don't rush. Take whatever time you need to figure it out, and assert yourself if you're pushed. You have a right to decide when you're ready.

    EDIT:
    I don't mean it's hard to be "fully committed" as in "cheating," I mean it's hard to be dead set on them and persevering when you still consider that there's another option (back door) if you're not with this person.


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    So he's a logical fellow? Then the solution is simple, just walk up to him and be forthright about why you turned away. If he's genuinely interested into you, he'll give you a second chance. As a practical tip, the next time that you yawn cover your mouth with your hand, because that's the polite thing to do instead of turning away. While I write this part about yawning, I'm constantly yawning myself and covering my mouth with my hand. Yawning is so infectious, LOL.

    I usually cover my mouth while yawning when there are other people in the room, but I was in a place where no one was, so I didn't mind yawning like that, I was waiting for my friend , but surprisingly! he came instead

    He might be ILE ( or LIE but my humble intuition says ILE fits him better )
    Souls know their way back home

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    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    @decqueen, regardless of if he is an ILE or LIE, both types don't care as much for social ettiquette, but more about if people are interested into us. ILEs crave the attention and hate being ignored, while us LIEs desire love, but feel unloved when people turn away from us. Just step towards him and explain what happened, because clearing the air directly is often the best way with logicians. We are too insecure of our people reading skills, so subtly beating around the brush doesn't work, because we would wave it away as projection from our side. Instead you'll have to grab the bull by its horns and be upfront with us, we can handle it and if your feelings for him are true, then you can handle it too. Good luck!

    By the way, if you intuit that he is an ILE, then he probably is, also because ILEs are quite more ubiqoutous than LIEs.
    @chriscorey and @The Banana King, how would you like to be approached in this situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    @decqueen, regardless of if he is an ILE or LIE, both types don't care as much for social ettiquette, but more about if people are interested into us. ILEs crave the attention and hate being ignored, while us LIEs desire love, but feel unloved when people turn away from us. Just step towards him and explain what happened, because clearing the air directly is often the best way with logicians. We are too insecure of our people reading skills, so subtly beating around the brush doesn't work, because we would wave it away as projection from our side. Instead you'll have to grab the bull by its horns and be upfront with us, we can handle it and if your feelings for him are true, then you can handle it too. Good luck!

    By the way, if you intuit that he is an ILE, then he probably is, also because ILEs are quite more ubiqoutous than LIEs.
    @chriscorey and @The Banana King, how would you like to be approached in this situation?
    Just like you described.
    The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice

    -Krishna

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    @Lady Leviathan ta for your insight. Yeah, I have thought about messaging him a few times now so I think it’s worth looking into. I did the same with another Estp and I realised I didn’t like him in the end. I would genuinely like to meet someone soon so it’s good to get the duals out of my system. And then I can concentrate on meeting someone who feels like a comfortable match with at least ok ITR compatibility.

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    @decqueen, regardless of if he is an ILE or LIE, both types don't care as much for social ettiquette, but more about if people are interested into us. ILEs crave the attention and hate being ignored, while us LIEs desire love, but feel unloved when people turn away from us. Just step towards him and explain what happened, because clearing the air directly is often the best way with logicians. We are too insecure of our people reading skills, so subtly beating around the brush doesn't work, because we would wave it away as projection from our side. Instead you'll have to grab the bull by its horns and be upfront with us, we can handle it and if your feelings for him are true, then you can handle it too. Good luck!

    By the way, if you intuit that he is an ILE, then he probably is, also because ILEs are quite more ubiqoutous than LIEs.
    Thank you so much for your advice
    I think I will do that the next time I see him
    Souls know their way back home

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    IME duality mostly consists of teaching each other to grow in some of your weakest areas...which comes with a lacking from your partner in your strongest areas. That gap equates to inability to have things in common in that way - like...another ESI will just GET certain things my LIE doesn't.

    "IME duality mostly consists of teaching each other to grow in some of your weakest areas...which comes with a lacking from your partner in your strongest areas."
    In the case of ESI + LIE, that means ESI is often teaching LIE to be less practical minded in the relationship department, more human aware, more sensitive with human things. I get hurt a lot when I open up in search of emotional comfort...LIEs aren't much of an emotional bedrock. It's hard to confide, but opening up to one another that way is part of closing the distance. Sometimes, it makes me feel really alone around my partner. He has a lot to teach me with Te, too, but...LIEs aren't the most open of people, especially when it comes to how they feel, so I'm not sure how that makes him feel. He probably just thinks of it in terms of practicality and efficiency or something, or is too busy to really help much in the ways I need it lately. Or spend time with me at all, for that matter. Idk. In some ways, duality is more disappointing than non-duality. I don't see some sort of super compatibility. He does, but I don't. My emotional needs are left unmet and I'm left somewhat depressed. I don't want mutual provision for weaknesses, I want a partner in life. ESI+LIE is not that great of a pairing IME. There's too much emotional neglect...and when it's not neglect, it's the clumsiness of a child walking around in a forest full of predators.
    Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 04-25-2022 at 06:51 PM.


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    @Lady Leviathan yep it seems that duality has its limits. In order for two minds to be perfectly attuned there is some small price to pay. (I don’t know how to describe what it is, and maybe it is not so small in some cases). I have spent a lot of time alone, and the friendships that have brought me the most emotional comfort were with IEEs and SEIs (even though they didn’t help me the way I really needed). I know I will rely on those types for a long time, maybe always, no matter what partner I end up with. I don’t know if that’s just me, and where I am in my life now. Perhaps one day I’ll need other types, but I like to think that all ITR have their strengths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Lady Leviathan yep it seems that duality has its limits. In order for two minds to be perfectly attuned there is some small price to pay. (I don’t know how to describe what it is, and maybe it is not so small in some cases). I have spent a lot of time alone, and the friendships that have brought me the most emotional comfort were with IEEs and SEIs (even though they didn’t help me the way I really needed). I know I will rely on those types for a long time, maybe always, no matter what partner I end up with. I don’t know if that’s just me, and where I am in my life now. Perhaps one day I’ll need other types, but I like to think that all ITR have their strengths.
    Perhaps they do all have their strengths, but I'm so emotionally unsatisfied that it's hard to see the good in the duality at times. I am in love, and he is in love with me (perhaps more than I am in love with him), don't get me wrong. I just want more than emotional unavailability. Would be nice to know I'm with a human capable of vulnerability and not just a Te-Ni robot.


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    My LIE-Ni surprises me sometimes. He notices patterns across time way beyond what I do. Sometimes it impresses me. Recently, he noticed I liked the wholesome moments of Tommy with Grace more than any of the other parts of Peaky Blinders. He said I am a romantic that likes that stuff. I didn't even notice my tendency to pay more attention to those parts with a big smile on my face. Sometimes he knows me better than I know myself. I'm proud of him for how far he has come...he used to misunderstand me a ton due to linear thinking.


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    Going along with an LIE's planning requires trust. I decided to give my LIE that and let him help me structure, schedule, and plan my life more. Seems my independent streak was getting in the way of his help. I still have to bite my tongue because of my independence, but...he is better at it, so I'm backing off.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I know you’re addressing the ESI/LIE duality in particular, but this concisely summarizes why I don’t find EII/LSE duality appealing from a theoretical standpoint. From the descriptions I’ve read and what I’ve seen people on hear say, the Te-Fi dualities sound more suitable for strictly goal-oriented relationships (due their provision for weaknesses, as you said) than happy romantic partnerships in which both party’s emotional needs are being met.
    When I'm not in the moment of disappointments and such...there's a ton of chemistry, life, and love in our relationship. We have our ups and downs, but overall I know he's the one for me. I'm committed for life. I know he feels the same...probably moreso than me, which was part of what won my heart over...seeing his dedication, persistence, commitment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    So, when it comes to some kind of magical meeting of two like minds and two hearts beating as one, that hasn’t happened to me yet. That state of simultaneity has eluded me, hence I just show up and see where the woman is headed.
    It wasn't that way since the beginning. He held on. He knew what he wanted and he went for it...and never stopped wanting it. I fell for him with time and growth through our difficulties, hardships, over the span of the years we've known each other. Only after all of that is that there.

    I don't think real love is some sort of magical thing at first, in the beginning. That seems more like infatuation or love bombing. I think deep bonds are made throughout time, with shared experiences and growth together. Perhaps my LIE would have a different stance, though, since he became set on me so early on. I certainly don't know everything.


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    I look at most couples and notice they don't have what we have. I see the dynamics and realize...they never will have it. Duality or not, I do believe what we have is what I mentioned wanting before:



    All else aside, we love each other and that is that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Awe, well that’s great. Glad to hear you’ve found someone with whom you share that level of love and commitment. Ignore my negative comment about the duality then, haha.
    All good, I did not take it in any way ^^ you're free to express your own thoughts, feelings, views. Don't let me stand in the way of that. And I can understand your POV.


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    There’s little emotional neglect in my own.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    There’s little emotional neglect in my own.
    Its a growth phase. I dont imagine all will have to grow through it. Thats awesome though, I am glad youve got that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    Perhaps they do all have their strengths, but I'm so emotionally unsatisfied that it's hard to see the good in the duality at times. I am in love, and he is in love with me (perhaps more than I am in love with him), don't get me wrong. I just want more than emotional unavailability. Would be nice to know I'm with a human capable of vulnerability and not just a Te-Ni robot.
    Just a clarification, what I meant here is that he was more consistent and decided about me than I was about him at first.


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    I really need to listen more when my LIE tells me something is just a mood I'm in...part of him seeing patterns over time better than I can, I guess. My mind does not think in a “throughout time” way. I live in the present moment and each thing is as though it's new. I only know "this has occurred before." I don't see things as though they are on some sort of timeline. My Ni is complete shit. As a result, I get caught up in moods and think they are more important/significant than they actually are. I don't always realize it's just a moment. That applies to my disappointment about my relationship needs, which I spoke on here, as well.

    A balance must be learned, as this can be taken too far and become minimizing the concerns I voice also.

    This has some strengths as well as the weaknesses, btw. It makes me better at recognizing changes when extrapolation based on past patterns fails and only serves as bias. Ni takes longer to recognize the changes, the 1%, the exceptions, the "this is different than the other times before." It more so is focused on the patterns in the overall big picture. I see more easily the case by case scenario.

    The left isn't better than the right. It's just different. Having a higher D function doesn't necessarily equate to having greater strengths in that particular function in a linear way; strengths have their inverse sides, their flip sides. Each personality is simply well-suited for something different. Diversity should be appreciated, esteemed, valued, and respected. There are things of value in everyone.
    Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 04-27-2022 at 11:06 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Leviathan View Post
    I really need to listen more when my LIE tells me something is just a mood I'm in...part of him seeing patterns over time better than I can, I guess. My mind does not think in a “throughout time” way. I live in the present moment and each thing is as though it's new. I only know "this has occurred before." I don't see things as though they are on some sort of timeline. My Ni is complete shit. As a result, I get caught up in moods and think they are more important/significant than they actually are. I don't always realize it's just a moment. That applies to my disappointment about my relationship needs, which I spoke on here, as well.

    A balance must be learned, as this can be taken too far and become minimizing the concerns I voice also.

    This has some strengths as well as the weaknesses, btw. It makes me better at recognizing changes when extrapolation based on past patterns fails and only serves as bias. Ni takes longer to recognize the changes, the 1%, the exceptions, the "this is different than the other times before." It more so is focused on the patterns in the overall big picture. I see more easily the case by case scenario.

    The left isn't better than the right. It's just different. Having a higher D function doesn't necessarily equate to having greater strengths in that particular function in a linear way; strengths have their inverse sides, their flip sides. Each personality is simply well-suited for something different. Diversity should be appreciated, esteemed, valued, and respected. There are things of value in everyone.
    Oh, shit...



    So, it's bc I'm Static / he's Dynamic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    my dating update for the week..lololol. I reached out to the Estp and he replied but after I messaged back he didn't reply again. I do not feel disappointed. I am off on a date with the Esfp today- park date in one of the romantic parks of the city. And after following some advice on the forum I put that I was looking for an Estp on one of my dating profile apps. This led to me matching with what I think is an Enfj male and I got caught up in long convo with him..thinking he might be Istp but no...I doubt it now. THEN, I went through some profiles and liked a guy's pic who looked a bit Estp-ish. I later decided to take down the 'looking for Estp' as I felt like it had led to me wasting too much time talking to the Enfj guy...he seems lovely though so maybe I'm being too negative lol. Not for me most likely, but awfully sweet. The Estp I liked has now matched with me and he looks interesting...interesting is the word I think. I don't want to explain in detail but he looks like a nice person. He lives a little out the way...but has mentioned meeting up already.

    A couple of years younger than me which sometimes seems to be an issue...but shall see.
    I was seven years younger than my SLI ex-wife. It was never a problem. Me not being an IEE and her not being an ESI were the problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I was seven years younger than my SLI ex-wife. It was never a problem. Me not being an IEE and her not being an ESI were the problems.
    Ta. Yes tis maybe more likely to be a problem when there are already other problems like poor ITR match. Or other issues. I read on the internet that anything more than two year age difference can be an issue..most of my friends are a similar age to me but my Entp friend is 7 years younger than me and in some ways he’s the one I get on best with..the SEI guy I had drama with at work was 4 years younger than me. I suspect if he were a little older he wouldn’t have been such a dick but I suppose it can take that type of guy a little longer to grow up (more than a little bit cool type). He also genuinely reminded me of my younger LSI brother and I think we had some power struggles, him being cleverer/ more ‘together’, me being older, yet far more vulnerable and naive (and nicer?). It’s said in lookalike relations one person has to be the leader…it was really hard for me to let him be the natural leader when he was acting like a dick lol. But it was also very hard to resist. God I’m glad that’s all over.

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    My parents were 2 years apart, my mother EIE older than my dad SEI. They had a stormy marriage but stayed together.

    My SEE is 1 year +1 week older than me. <-- Perfect.
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    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    I guess part of the worry is that I’m in my thirties. Younger men might worry about a woman’s fertility in the same way I worry about it (although I haven’t done that much research). I’m not sure at what age I should be deciding it’s time to settle..perhaps sooner rather than later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I guess part of the worry is that I’m in my thirties. Younger men might worry about a woman’s fertility in the same way I worry about it (although I haven’t done that much research). I’m not sure at what age I should be deciding it’s time to settle..perhaps sooner rather than later.
    Some people care, some don't. If you want to have kids, age might be an issue but if you don't then who cares.

    One of my cousin (ST type) was very popular among women. He dated many, I didn't count the ones I know. Now he is in his early 40s and having a relationship with someone older than him, and she cannot have kids. He is ok with it, we will meet her as an extended family because he thinks this as a serious relationship. Things may not work out between them but it wont be due to her not being able to have a kid.

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    I took a cube personality test before, and 1 of the results was that I don’t want to have kids. It also said that I’m big and have exotic goals.

    I love being macho and supreme in vice-gripping terror strikes of the eclipse canon arrow of extrication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I guess part of the worry is that I’m in my thirties. Younger men might worry about a woman’s fertility in the same way I worry about it (although I haven’t done that much research). I’m not sure at what age I should be deciding it’s time to settle..perhaps sooner rather than later.
    A lot depends on whether or not the guy (and you) want to have kids. Personally, I see having kids as the only reason to get married. The tax advantages are certainly not worth getting married for.

    If a woman can't have kids, there is very little chance that I'd marry her. On the other hand, if she got pregnant and was willing, I'd marry her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Some people care, some don't. If you want to have kids, age might be an issue but if you don't then who cares.

    One of my cousin (ST type) was very popular among women. He dated many, I didn't count the ones I know. Now he is in his early 40s and having a relationship with someone older than him, and she cannot have kids. He is ok with it, we will meet her as an extended family because he thinks this as a serious relationship. Things may not work out between them but it wont be due to her not being able to have a kid.
    cool cool. I would like to have a kid..I think I am the point where I will naturally start to be a bit less fussy about finding someone..will they be loyal/ a good father may become the most important factor in how I judge someone. As far as I know, I am able to have children, but I guess as you get older, there are more risks of things going wrong in pregnancy. A guy may worry he'll fall for an older woman and then she ends up not being able to have kids. They might even feel bad to date me because if it doesn't work out then they have wasted my time when time is starting to run short for me in terms of having kids.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 05-01-2022 at 10:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    A lot depends on whether or not the guy (and you) want to have kids. Personally, I see having kids as the only reason to get married. The tax advantages are certainly not worth getting married for.

    If a woman can't have kids, there is very little chance that I'd marry her. On the other hand, if she got pregnant and was willing, I'd marry her.
    I'm not fussed about getting married, if the guy had a lot of money maybe there would be some benefit. If there were some legal or financial benefit I'd do it but probably not otherwise. I think the time for that has passed. Maybe when I'm older or something and trying to find romance in life. I never liked the idea of being the centre of attention in a ceremony. It might have been nice in a different life.

    also...I have watched my IEE friend get quite upset about fearing her chance to have a family was over. She was my age at the start of the pandemic, and she didn't want to date during the lock downs. Two years have gone by and luckily she met someone a month or so ago. Interestingly, she is considering travelling for a bit, without the dual. I think she senses that he is willing to wait, still I will remind her of the luck she has had in meeting the dual and to be careful. I don't want to wait two years to meet a dual..and get as upset as she was. I would rather get into a relationship sooner and have a higher chance of being able to have kids. You could wait two years and no one comes along, or they do, but it takes longer to start a family.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 05-01-2022 at 12:05 PM.

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