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Thread: Competition/Jealousy in Relationships...

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    Default Competition/Jealousy in Relationships...

    When it comes to competition and envy in relationships/with other people, what types/IM could this be? I would assume Se valuing types are more prone to this.

    For example, I've little doubt I'm Se valuing, and overall consider myself pretty healthy despite whatever type I am... but my unhealthy side stems from this stuff. Especially if any romantic interest is involved. Or even easily get envious of friends. A bit "catty", if you will.

    I'll give specific examples soon, as I'm about to head to work, but I was curious and thought it would spark a decent discussion.
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    possible specifics

    S types are more paranoid, overprotective and restrictive than N
    F types express it with more drama and openly than T

    Si/Se. Se - have higher inlination to physical control and power upon others, should lesser tolerate cheatings of the pair (not own cheating), triangles/polygamy, harder to allow a partner to go away, mb more suspicious and spy more often, more prone to physical ways of punishment and control, harder to forgive.
    Si should to look lesser jealousy compared to Se ones. Even when having the similar degree of negative feelings should behave calmer.

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    Thanks for the response haha. @thehotelambush mentioned to me that ESI tends to be prone to this.

    Honestly, I thought EIE was most prone to it.
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    I feel jealous an awful lot. Definitely keeping it in check compared to when I was younger, but it basically used to consume me at times and I'd be overwhelmed with those envious feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturne View Post
    Thanks for the response haha. @thehotelambush mentioned to me that ESI tends to be prone to this.

    Honestly, I thought EIE was most prone to it.
    Theoretically speaking I don't see how it could be characteristic of anything other than Fi/Se. EIEs can be jealous but Fe tends to be less exclusive/"monogamous".

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    I care little for Socionics types anymore, but just as a human being I experience rather intense feelings of possessiveness in relationships at times. I tend to prefer a single intense attachment at a time, where in my mind a capable two-person team is formed. I don't like any intrusion into the team, because in my mind that implies that the existing two-person team is inadequate. Ironically, I am most drawn towards open, free-spirited, scattered, and high-maintenance women, who would likely be reluctant to settle down so quickly (and very fairly on their part I might add).

    Since I typically become close to very few people, and these people are usually romantic partners or prospective partners, I sometimes feel that their closeness to me is a liability, because they could use what they know about me to hurt me. It should go without saying, but this paranoia is rarely constructive.

    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    I didn't think i was the jealous type until i got into my first relationship, then i rlly surprised myself lol.
    Same experience here. One thing I have learned is that it is ok to feel jealous, and people should not tell you to not feel jealous because this would be a violation of your boundaries, but it is not ok to act restrictively towards someone else as a result of jealousy, because this would be a violation of the other person's boundaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    EIEs can be jealous but Fe tends to be less exclusive/"monogamous".
    Really? Interesting. How so?
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    I get jealous as fuck. Even when I dont get to go into work and other people are doing something I didnt participate in when it comes to work. In relationships hell yes I get jealous. Emotional, sexual, its all the same.

    My duals are flirta so its tough. Basically, you are coming home with me at the end of the night, I dont care what you did or did not do at the bar. I want to be your everything, as I put you in this same zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturne View Post
    Really? Interesting. How so?
    Fe's goal is to expand interaction, which includes the number of people you interact or relate with on any number of levels.

    I'm speaking mainly about abstract elements here, there is a lot of variation even within types that value Fe or don't.

    And, there's also a distinction between what you do and what you expect from others. Se can play into that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturne View Post
    When it comes to competition and envy in relationships/with other people, what types/IM could this be? I would assume Se valuing types are more prone to this.

    For example, I've little doubt I'm Se valuing, and overall consider myself pretty healthy despite whatever type I am... but my unhealthy side stems from this stuff. Especially if any romantic interest is involved. Or even easily get envious of friends. A bit "catty", if you will.

    I'll give specific examples soon, as I'm about to head to work, but I was curious and thought it would spark a decent discussion.
    I haven't seen it in confirmed Alphas but have seen it the most in confirmed Gammas with then Deltas and then Betas to a lesser extent. I have seen it the most in ESI and LIE - next would be EIE, SLI & EII but EII covers it with strong defensiveness.

    I see no excuse for jealous behaviors. Everyone has challenges in life, just different kinds. Jealousy is inherently irrational and only makes life worse.
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    If ESIs are the most jealous, does it imply their oriented partners LIEs are the most unfaithful?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
    If ESIs are the most jealous, does it imply their oriented partners LIEs are the most unfaithful?
    I know a bunch of LIE’s, and I have never known one to cheat. However, I think they (we) end relationships and move on with about the same frequency as the general population.

    I think we keep our contractual promises until the circumstances change. All the more reason for being careful about knowing what we are getting into.

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    ^ The way this looks from an operational standpoint is that we LIE’s tend to look at a lot of possibilities without committing to any single one while dating, but then we make a choice and lock things down forever, or until our partners want out.

    If being jealous serves any purpose for an ESI, it would be in the initial stages of attraction, when the LIE is still looking at multiple alternatives and the ESI needs to alert the LIE that she is making a claim, and later in the ongoing relationship for reminding the LIE that the ESI is still interested in continuing the relationship. The article “Erotic Attitudes” states that LIE’s, as Victims, see relationships as inevitably declining unless their partner reiterates their interest. A demonstration of jealousy by an ESI would do that. There are better ways of showing interest, though.

    Personally, I don’t like to see jealousy. I think it indicates that the partner is insecure in love and needs immediate reassurance that all is well. If done too much, it gets tiring and makes me want to move on.

    I much prefer just a direct expression of interest.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-18-2019 at 08:23 AM.

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    How jealous I am depends on how much my partner permits lol. I test the waters a bit... If he allows me to be crazy jealous, then I am. If he doesn't, then I'm not. I'm with someone who doesn't mind my jealous side and is as passionate as I am, so it works out great.

    Imo, all emotions have value. I like jealousy and a little bit of drama. It spices things up. I think a relationship where nothing happens is quite dull. This is my personal preference, mind you. And ofc, I absolutely love a man who is possessive.
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    Jealousy is one of the worst feelings to me. Its like an admission of inferiority or something. Its always mixed with shame. So i immediately try to suppress it because i'm embarrassed to be feeling it. And then I have this excess emotional energy making my skin hot and I feel like i'm gonna burst and I end up giving myself away with some stupid comment like, "she's cute, huh?" God, I hate it. I don't think I'm jealous more frequently than the average person, though. But ive always dated introverted men who don't talk to a lot of women.

    With friends I don't get catty. Sometimes I get jealous briefly but it usually metabolizes into inspiration.

    Edit: I feel like I wrote this exact same post not long ago, was there a recent thread on this? Crazy deja vu

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    There's a reason why you feel jealous, and it's not due to "functions".

    It's said that jealousy is the fear of losing love to someone else.

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    So last week, I was flirting with this female SEE at a converted train station which has a lot of restaurants in it, among which is the one run by the IEI whom I was chasing for a couple years but who turned out to be just a friend.

    After buying lunch from the SEE, I wandered off to sit at an empty table. After a minute, the IEI came out from her restaurant and sat down at my table and asked me how I've been. I told her I'd had a couple of GF's since we last spoke, but nothing permanent. Then I asked her how she's been, etc. etc.

    The SEE walked past us on her way somewhere and saw us talking but didn't say anything.

    When I'd finished my lunch, I returned to the SEE to buy a dinner takeout, and she said "So, you know Sabine?"

    "Yes, I know her. We've gone out a few times."

    The SEE's eyes got big. "But you guys are just friends, right?" It wasn't stated as a question so much as an incredulity that I'd gone out with her. She was easily able to see that we were talking as friends, not as lovers.

    "Yes. I like her, but she's basically an impenetrable fortress." And the SEE was satisfied that her assumptions were right. Lol.

    It is amazing to me how perceptive she is. She has "Relationships" turned up as high as I do "Thinking".

    *EDIT*
    After reading @ashlesha's post above about jealousy, I'd say that the difference between her (an ESI) and the SEE is that the SEE seems to be more confident of her control in relationships, but rather than being hurt by jealousy, the SEE seems to be hurt by being ignored, whereas I suspect that most ESI's are happy to be ignored most of the time.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-18-2019 at 11:45 AM.

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    I'm hurt by being ignored more often than I am hurt by being jealous. But that's probably to do with the type of men ive gone out with, who are more "withdraw under stress" types than "flirt with the waitress" types.

    Being jealous is more like a sharp sting and more visceral and the hurt from being ignored is more like a slow burn that's fueled by my thoughts.

    I react outwardly more strongly to being ignored. Because I feel like I have more control over whether someone communicates with me than i do over whether they find someone else attractive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I'm hurt by being ignored more often than I am hurt by being jealous. But that's probably to do with the type of men ive gone out with, who are more "withdraw under stress" types than "flirt with the waitress" types.

    Being jealous is more like a sharp sting and more visceral and the hurt from being ignored is more like a slow burn that's fueled by my thoughts.

    Interesting.

    When I'm in a relationship, I switch from "flirting with the waitress" to "being polite to the waitress".

    When I was seeing the LSI, I pretty much ignored her most of the week unless she needed something, but I gave her a lot of attention on the weekends. That was probably a result of not living together. When I was living with the SLI ex, we interacted daily to get done the work of living. Unless she retreated to her room and closed the door to read or nap. She and I had a pretty functional, complementary relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I react outwardly more strongly to being ignored. Because I feel like I have more control over whether someone communicates with me than i do over whether they find someone else attractive.
    Hah! You don't have any control over whom your SO finds attractive. However, a decent regard for your feelings should keep him from acting on it or embarrassing or shaming you by making his feelings obvious.

    It is also strange to me that an ESI doesn't like to be ignored. I've found that it is almost impossible to get the attention of the ones I've gone out with. But maybe there is some switch inside ESI's that gets flipped in the process of going from "some rando guy who wants to get into her pants" to "partner". Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Interesting.

    When I'm in a relationship, I switch from "flirting with the waitress" to "being polite to the waitress".

    When I was seeing the LSI, I pretty much ignored her most of the week unless she needed something, but I gave her a lot of attention on the weekends. That was probably a result of not living together. When I was living with the SLI ex, we interacted daily to get done the work of living. Unless she retreated to her room and closed the door to read or nap. She and I had a pretty functional, complementary relationship.
    Being ignored to me is like not responding to texts at all, or giving the silent treatment, not just mutually not communicating because you're busy or whatever.

    Though I have gotten insecure about periods of silence in the beginning of a relationship before learning and adjusting to what's normal for them in contrast to what indicates lack of interest for them.

    Hah! You don't have any control over whom your SO finds attractive. However, a decent regard for your feelings should keep him from acting on it or embarrassing or shaming you by making his feelings obvious.
    Lol I mean yeah, but my animal brain won't get that message.

    It is also strange to me that an ESI doesn't like to be ignored. I've found that it is almost impossible to get the attention of the ones I've gone out with. But maybe there is some switch inside ESI's that gets flipped in the process of going from "some rando guy who wants to get into her pants" to "partner". Lol.
    Of course there is. Personally I'm pretty quick to be on or off in that respect though. I don't go out of my way to spend time with somebody who's attention I'm not craving. Which is a large part of the reason I don't date much. I think stackings have something to do with this.

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    Je ne suis jamais jealous.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    *EDIT*
    After reading @ashlesha's post above about jealousy, I'd say that the difference between her (an ESI) and the SEE is that the SEE seems to be more confident of her control in relationships, but rather than being hurt by jealousy, the SEE seems to be hurt by being ignored, whereas I suspect that most ESI's are happy to be ignored most of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I'm hurt by being ignored more often than I am hurt by being jealous. But that's probably to do with the type of men ive gone out with, who are more "withdraw under stress" types than "flirt with the waitress" types.
    So your assumption has been directly contradicted by a supposed "ESI", so why isn't that a problem?

    And you wonder, "Hmph! That's strange that an ESI doesn't like to be ignored, since in my experience, I hardly can get their attention"? Do some ESIs like being ignored, while some ESIs don't like to be ignored? If this entity "ESI" is capable of being both, then what decides being either of the two...? And doesn't pretty much anyone fall between either "not like being ignored" and "don't mind being ignored", anyway? Or does it not depend on the person or the situation?

    Though it's pretty ridiculous to attribute not liking being ignored to a type, when that seems more to do with one's upbringing, insecurities, etc.

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    Though the rationale behind not liking being ignored seems to be something like, "If I don't have the attention of someone that I care about at all times, then I'm not loved (and being loved is important to me)".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    Though the rationale behind not liking being ignored seems to be something like, "If I don't have the attention of someone that I care about at all times, then I'm not loved (and being loved is important to me)".
    This is the danger of seeing ourselves and others as "types", which is dehumanizing imo.

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    I get very jealous in the sense of feeling it but I don’t act jealous in the sense of...being competitive or “catty” or being mean in that sense. I’m not comfortable with that. I just end up expressing my feelings of hurt/distrust/jealousy to this...important person in my life instead of trying to control anything or indirectly do something. Yeah I’m not...comfortable with that. My ideal relationship is where both people can be sincerely open and honest with each other, despite their negative feelings, and it can get resolved in an environment of trust, compassion, safety.

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    I never considered myself a jealous person until I started seriously dating. I remember the exact moment when I first felt a pang of jealousy. I was 16 years old walking down a hallway, and I just started my first serious relationship, and he was talking to some other girl and they were laughing. Then I started getting jealous of anyone that he had a past relationship with or thought he was attracted to. I never made it obvious. It was like covert jealousy. I was curious about past relationships and wanted to know all about them, how serious they were, what they did together, just everything, and I would get insecure and worry he would think they were better than me. And then I’d start comparing & hate on myself. You aren’t skinny enough, smart enough, responsible enough..,and yes...it made me want to be better. It inspired me to make more of myself in a really unhealthy way, but it is a motivational factor. I’d never act catty to other women over it, everything was directed at bettering myself. It was like I was in a competition and I was the only one who knew about...But that’s really the only time I get that jealous of other people. Not if they have more than me, or are more successful, more popular or more attractive. Only if I worry my SO finds them attractive or interesting...or they were once in a relationship with them. That’s probably enough. Am I insecure? Probably. lol I can be kind of stalkerish, too. More so when I was younger. I don’t look through my SO’s stuff anymore. I realized I was just finding things to upset myself over, and I’ve learned to trust more. But there is always some paranoia there.

    I once made my SO burn all the pictures from his past GF. I guess I’m kind of crazy like that. Honestly some of the stuff I’ve done is almost like quiet bordeline-ish.
    Last edited by Aster; 01-18-2019 at 06:22 PM.
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    I can get really jealous. There is a certain line where flirting becomes repressed desire. You can kind of tell when two people look like they'd rather be passionately fucking. This is one of the reasons I try not to flirt unless I want it to go somewhere else, if you know what I mean.

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    I did suspect that two people were going to fall for each other even though they claimed they were hanging out as "friends " Really? C'mon.

    I didn't by it, now they have the consequences to deal with.

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    I tend to feel envy a lot, I've never been more envious of my partner than I'm now in my current relationship with an EIE. We have the same gifts and talents, but he somehow always manages to use them better than myself, he's also more disciplined and driven than I'm. I fear that one day he'll have everything I've ever wanted to have, while I'll stand in his shadow. A lot of things he accomplishes represent a direct threat for me and I have to deal with lot of envy and insecurity around him. He also likes to talk about his success a lot, he's a 3 and he needs tons of attention and affirmation.

    One the other hand I've never experienced being jealous or openly competitive. I've felt very subtle feelings of jealousy, but it's more or less nonexistent for me. I tend to feel like too much of a loser to ever compete with anyone.


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    Very jealous in relationships and I'm not even the slightest bit sorry about it. Envious of some co-workers but I'm in a line of work that caters to their strengths much more than mine, so w/e
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    Very jealous in relationships and I'm not even the slightest bit sorry about it. Envious of some co-workers but I'm in a line of work that caters to their strengths much more than mine, so w/e
    I have noticed Betas STs tend to be very jealous. I personally like a jealous partner. What's a relationship like without some possessiveness and jealousy? I'm fairly jealous as well... So maybe it's a quadra thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    I have noticed Betas STs tend to be very jealous. I personally like a jealous partner. What's a relationship like without some possessiveness and jealousy? I'm fairly jealous as well... So maybe it's a quadra thing.
    It's a Best Quadra thing, I'm pretty sure. Or Aristocratic Quadra.

    Jealous or possessive behavior is basically just performative exclusivity, and exclusivity doesn't mean shit if it doesn't get enforced. It's a clear external expression of valuing. People that categorically balk at that are fucked up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    It's a Best Quadra thing, I'm pretty sure. Or Aristocratic Quadra.

    Jealous or possessive behavior is basically just performative exclusivity, and exclusivity doesn't mean shit if it doesn't get enforced. It's a clear external expression of valuing. People that categorically balk at that are fucked up.
    I enjoy having rules imposed upon me, especially rules related to relationships. What is okay and what isn't... I also want my partner to yield to my jealous whims. I am that kind of girl. I am queen, and my boyfriend is king. He should know that lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    I enjoy having rules imposed upon me, especially rules related to relationships. What is okay and what isn't... I also want my partner to yield to my jealous whims. I am that kind of girl. I am queen, and my boyfriend is king. He should know that lol.
    lol having clear rules as an escape from angst is hilariously beta. I always feel like an ass if I realize I've done something worth evoking a jealous response even tho the possessiveness itself is a pretty damn good feel
    "I would rather be ashes than dust"

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked."

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    If my partner is jealous...I kind of think it as a signal I have done something wrong in her eyes.
    If I am jealous...depends on the partner...with straightforward people - I guess it's a signal the relationship is in danger. With more shiftly people I generally have tried to divert my attention to something else / look for other women.
    Anyway I treat jealousy as a linear-logical signal from the environment, hard to treat as some sort of game. I just don't understand people that way.

    In a work setting i don't really usually get jealous of co-workers, I am more likely to just think that the managers are idiots or that I should quit / change environment.

    Just how I am, inside I am actually a somewhat cold and detached person. I am a lot more likely to feel anger than jealousy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
    This is the danger of seeing ourselves and others as "types", which is dehumanizing imo.
    Jealousy is a universal human emotion... Almost anyone is capable of feeling jealous. Pretty crazy that these people are thinking that "it's an X thing". It's a Se thing, it's a Beta ST thing, I mean really? And even if it was, we don't get any additional insight out of it.

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    I see it as a challenge for me, but not always will I take the challenge. If she is interested in someone I'd hope she'd go after him. In fact I'd probably push her to leave me and go for bigger better fish if she is capable of it. Seeing that ideal relationships are made is more important to me than my own personal relationships.

    Unless the guy she was into gave me bad signals, then I might tell her that maybe it's not such a good idea.

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    There's a big difference between jealousy and distrust. Mild jealousy from a partner I take as natural and it can be sort of cute and reassuring but I don't want to provoke it. Distrust raises my hackles pretty quickly. I'm willing to acquiesce to the occasional reasonable request stated reasonably in terms of where I go and who I talk to - i care about my partners feelings - but at my own discretion. I don't like a relationship dynamic that involves demands or accusations.

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    I think I feel possessive and passionate towards people I like often, and sad/dismayed/lonely if they give other people too much attention. Perhaps if my love interest spent too much time with another person I’d feel insecure and inferior for a bit, but I’m not sure if this is exactly the same as jealousy or envy. Maybe sort of, but I don’t really enjoy getting into drama like that and having emotions towards others like that, it seems to be counterproductive to me. I would try to focus on my partner to improve myself or maybe sabotage the other person in some cases () but in any case I’d try to do something about it or leave I think.

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    I don’t think I could be in a relationship with someone who didn’t get jealous. I wouldn’t feel like they cared about me enough. Maybe that’s weird, but it’s who I am, I have preferences, and I’m not/can’t change them.

    I was thinking, most people I know get jealous, at least a little, but they have different ways of dealing with them. Some don’t wear their jealousy on their sleeve. An ESE I know has cheated to get back, an SLI has tried ignoring the whole situation and started heading towards alcoholism, a SEE I know went out partying and started acting like they were 18 again. An LSE I know cuts off said person and refuses to talk to them for a long time. I generally don’t say anything and sink into depression at not being enough until I realize I have to become better and it’s the only way I can deal with it all. There are some people I know that don’t get that jealous. I know a LIE that doesn’t get jealous in relationships, but gets jealous of the things other people have, or their success.



    I don’t like it when people don’t trust me either, and it’s made me want to trust others more.
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