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    Member Questionnaire 1 (seeking it)
    What is beauty? What is love?
    1. Beauty can be in the physical looks or it can be artistic, emotional or "abstract" things. Beauty in the arts is really enthralling to me, sometimes (I'm not an artist myself, I was only as a kid).

    2. Love is altruistic and affectionate attachment to another person or maybe to an animal. But you could also love objects really. That's just called materialistic love

    Also, when it's about loving a human being, then you preferably you already *know* and accept the person for who they are. You can't truly love a person that you don't know and thus don't accept. Then you just love some image, imagination or you are trying to fulfil some fantasy needs of yours. This is a very important distinction imo

    And, *drumroll* - the exact same applies to romantic love. The "love" in "romantic love" is there for a reason, it's not by accident that this the same word is used in that expression.
    What are your most important values?
    I can't prioritise things like this, I don't really think about this kind of thing. Sorry, skip.

    EDIT: You could say my most important value though is 'moving forward'. Like, I can stick with that one. Anything else I can't stick with consistently or it would be a list that's too long to call it just the "most important" values. This one is the most important for me because 1) I can place it at the top of a values hierarchy and all other values can be derived from it 2) I just feel like I embody it too on some level, idk, it's a sense or feeling I have. Period.
    Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
    (Sorry this is gonna be alot of rambling, feel free to skip if it makes no sense to you)

    ***Highlighting the main parts in GREEN for short attention span, for all of my longer answers***

    I don't know what I believe in, I don't believe in a particular God or anything concrete like that, but somehow I've been changing and I've become able to look at spiritual things and actually make some subjective sense out of it. I mean how I've become able to do this, I realise it doesn't work for me without emotionally feeling these things, I can't really work with most of this spiritual stuff if I don't associate it to emotions first and that's really strange, because it used to be wayyyy more detached but that's how it seems to be. To be clear, I used to not have emotions with it but I like it this way now.

    Anyways, I sometimes find it fun to read or listen to real "esoteric" or "mystical" stuff now and I enjoy trying to translate it to my own language to make that subjective "sense" out of it. And this is where I need the emotions, I mean to be able to do the "translating". It just flows easily then and I enjoy it. So maybe my dabbling in this will actually come out to something in the end. Actually no, I know nothing will come out of it But maybe in like 50 years from now!! (naah still joking)

    Before that I used to be like, I knew I wasn't an atheist even when a boyfriend of mine tried to insist that I was an atheist like him. I'm very materialistic in my perceptions and I rebelled against&quit organised religion a long time ago but that just isn't the same as being an atheist.
    So before, I used to be like, I had this vague sense of something transcendent that was really nice, sometimes I would turn to this to feel good about it, to feel uplifted, about an awe or reverence for the mystery of the universe, but I could focus on this only for a second at a time.

    But it would still be very important for being able to keep going in life, to sustain me in a sense.


    And this sense comes from how I read a series of books on spirituality that a guy gave me that I was really into. I mean I was into the guy. But I liked the books too. However, until the change I described above, that was all I had for spiritual beliefs and I've long forgotten most of the stuff in those books. I mean I know I acted based on it afterwards for many, many years, like I had these nice beliefs subconsciously and it made my behaviour and attitudes "better", "nicer", but I consciously have forgotten it all. Also....I've forgotten because it made me act too "nicely", and so, it did not serve me well in the long run. I needed an overhaul of my attitudes in the end (still working on that). Those books were just....not good enough for the actual reality here, it was a very idealistic worldview for how to believe in all these nice things, but I was a teenager back then, I'm an adult now and so I have grown out of that stuff.

    To give an actual example, I'd not want to see things in people like envy, jealousy, pettiness, all kinds of catty bullshit....so I'd treat everyone trying to do fair, equal treatment for them, as if these things didn't exist and so on.

    (The only one thing that I haven't forgotten is how the books started with, you have your own inner voice you can listen to and that's for sure helped me too)

    All in all I still don't have any specific spiritual or religious beliefs but I'd like to be able to find something. It won't be organised religion tho because I can't stand their rules and restrictions TBH. E.g. sexual and other bullshit restrictions
    (I do like that religious people try to be ethical, moral, that religion teaches all this, such people can sometimes be more trustable, but....)
    Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
    (This isn't going to be about politics!! Please if you reply to this, don't make it a political discussion)

    1. War in Ukraine....no thanks!
    This is very utopian but I'd like a real global government of all nations united under it and no wars because that's simply destruction and not progress. War in more developed areas is old school now, so like, Putin is really old school with it.

    (Yeah this is not politics, this is just my view on war)

    Militaries are still necessary for self-defense, to be able to intimidate other countries blah blah blah. It's also needed if we actually wanted to do the UN's original goal for maintaining peace. That is, utilise a strong military to enforce peace and ensure prosperity instead of destructive warring but of course it turns out we can't even do that with how the politics work in this world (again not gonna get into politics).

    2. Power: this is a general term with many meanings. I mean I first automatically think of very high status traditionally, e.g. in a hierarchy, like at the workplace, or for high political influence, so mostly high influence and high positions for various kinds of governance. (Please see my notes on language use below)

    But if you mean personal power, and not in a traditional hierarchy then power is simply energy, vitality, confidence. Also mental strength, which is in a large part willpower, willfulness and unflinching determination & being collected and focused all the time, even if you are under the worst possible attack, torture, etc., but again this is partially a mental thing, and only partially physical in the body, because it's not dependent on how much muscle you have or anything like that.

    Willpower also just totally in my opinion has a form that's completely mental, like you can will your psyche to transform things as needed for your personal growth if you get enough clarity for it, when you know where exactly to direct your willpower and energy for this purpose, what to attack to get the process of internal change started. You just have to reallllly, really want it. So this has power too in it.

    Ofcourse, being physically strong is power too.

    And if you are the type of person that knows how to manipulate others in all kinds of invisible ways (mentally, contexts, etc.) then that's a type of power too, but I don't go near that myself. I know there is a lot of power in that but I just don't do it and if someone tries to do that against me, they will be an enemy of mine for life, no turning back from it.

    Money, wealth is also power, if you've got a lot of it.....I'm not at all against that one

    But again....in my native language (it isn't English), power means the power and influence that comes with a high position, status in any kind of social hierarchy. I was trying to answer based on the English term. With my native language, it isn't the correct term with all the other above meanings I listed, except for the power and influence that money provides. That one does match in my native language too. The power that arises from manipulative abilities also kinda matches in my native language as well. The rest of what I wrote about doesn't match, we have different terms and connotations for that stuff, for everyday use anyways.
    What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
    1. I don't like to talk for so long, it's too draining lol

    I mean you can make me do long convos where I'll talk at length and listen too, but I'll just do it out of a sense of social obligation, sorry

    2. My interests in no particular order are competitive sport, fashion, gadgets, real estate, travelling, languages, reading. Nowadays psychology, spirituality (LOL), politics and the economy too. I probably forgot&left out some things here, sorry, I'll add more if I think of more
    Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
    I like biology & medical science lots. I find health nuts boring tho

    I focus on my looks, my health, yes and I take care of my body for racing too
    What do you think of daily chores?
    I think nothing of them
    Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
    Recent series: Manifest
    What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
    1. Eh it took me 5 years before I could cry over the loss of some people

    And then I cried for 3 seconds, lol.

    2. Idk this question on smiling I find boring
    Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
    Do you mean in a spiritual sense or what? Please clarify
    What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
    1. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. That applies to what people have seen as my weaknesses. You ask 10 people, they'll say 10 different things

    OK, the one thing I found interesting is the adage that anger is a weakness. It took me 1000 years to understand what they meant by it but I get it now, yeah. Other than this observation, I have never found anything useful in people's random stereotyping, bullshit guesses or personal attacks about me.

    2. I don't care to think in a bad light about myself, like (besides self-respect and self-worth), self-love is important, but ok.... I dislike not being able to just go and act VERY cheerful in high spirits and blah blah blah
    What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    1. That I get & achieve what I want. Intelligence & I think for myself

    2. Same as above. Particularly that I achieve my crazy goals where others would have given up crying like a baby after 5 minutes. My pride. That I don't turn my anger into hatefulness. And that you can't ever defeat me no matter how manipulative you are
    In what areas of your life would you like help?
    (Again this is gonna be rambly, skip if it doesn't make sense)

    I mean, this is what I said to someone today:

    "I just want two weeks where I can just tell someone what I'd like right now and then they just do it and there needs to be no fight about it. If I say "x", then they just go and do x and not argue with me, let alone try to affect me with negative drama if they don't feel like doing it."

    Where I can just make my requests and it'll be done, no argument, no drama, no negotiating, no anything whatsoever. Just plain believe me that my request is actually what I'd like rather than their ideas of what I'd like. Or at worst they tell me they would like to do it a bit later, not right now, that's fine, and say it in a way that there is NO negative drama about it. All in all, zero negative emotions!!

    I really want to relax and not have to fight all the time just for those 2 weeks.

    Other than that (I did not say this part), what would be realllllllllly ideal for these 2 weeks is..... I'm gonna be a real hypocrite here but yeah, so I've just said I don't want negative emotion from anyone during these 2 weeks of rest.... BUT I want to be able to express ALL my negative emotion.... No matter how ugly or shit or mean or "nasty" or angry or ragey or "aggressive" or upset or distressed or even "hateful" it looks. So like let me just express it all and let me be and not think that I'm now suddenly magically a different (bad, evil, dangerous, completely unpredictable) person just because I show what I usually don't show. And no I don't mean taking out the anger on someone else. Just plain express it without attacking anyone

    (I mean express it to someone, not just do it all on my own alone)

    Plus....I'd not go out of my way and do anything for anyone else in these two weeks, whether it's an obligation or not. Just relax instead, without having to pay attention to anyone else. Without anyone making any hint to me about who to pay attention to, about my obligations, blah blah blah. They can just be attentive to me instead, like I described above

    So yeah that's where I'd like help and then after those 2 weeks I can just go back to my normal life and need no help or support like that thanks and fuck it

    (So yes my idea of "support" isn't what others think of as support and so that's my problem but I'll survive thanks)

    (Plus I used to want more complex "support" than this but by now this simple stuff is enough, and I'll survive without this too lol)
    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
    No, rhetorical question, what the heck is a rut? Just keep moving.
    What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
    1a. I like decent, reliable, kind, forgiving, smart, funny blah blah people. Idk
    1b. I dislike weakness, dishonesty, manipulation, people who are regularly late just to fuck around, people who make promises all the time just not to keep them, all kinds of unreliability etc. These were the first things I thought of

    2. Idk if you mean socionics types. If not, then....people who are assertive at least a tiny fucking little bit. Don't need those hypocrite types who try to be saintly nice but can't be assertive like a normal person until they eventually, finally overdo the "assertiveness" or do it in some really bad passive aggro way.
    How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
    1. I feel them

    2. Good enough looks, sense of adventure (sexually too), intelligent, refined, devoted, attentive, admires me ..... my weakness is mysteriousness
    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    1. They need to be able to do, achieve things
    Everything else comes after that. A well-adjusted, socially confident, successful, well-liked, happy person blah blah blah

    2. I mean I haven't thought about the measures yet. But I won't be like my laissez-faire sister who's extreme with doing no limits for her kids. I do want to see what's beneficial for my kid and go based on that. It depends on what my kids would be like too, kids are not all the same
    A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
    Need an example to be able to answer this

    (But probably I'd just inquire about it to hear more about it before I think a thing)
    Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
    1. Society is a very important basis to our lives.

    Um if this question was asking me about my personal relationship to society then I mean it's a framework to act within.

    2. Idk

    3. Getting too laissez-faire about things where your instincts should be screaming NO!!!! Some people are totally losing their sensibilities and they have no limits about anything anymore, and add to this that people want to think in populist stereotypes based in groupthink rather than in facts and a level-headed evaluation of everyone's interests and what would be beneficial to society, and then you get a real bad mess on the whole. I don't want to get more specific here because it would turn really political (unless that's okay here, let me know).
    How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
    1. I used to not choose my friends, I let them choose me, and that was a BAD idea. Now I do choose.....is the person decent, reliable, kind and well-adjusted enough in life? So I check for their character before I'd consider anything else. Like, if the above checks out OK, then I like friends who are able to entertain me, and vice versa. And if we can go do things together. Similar views on the important things, some shared tastes, styles, can share special things, "dreams", blah blah blah

    2. I behave as my real self around them.....if it's a friend. If it's a leech or a vampire, then no.....
    How do you behave around strangers?
    Depends on mood....I either ignore people, or I'm open to a little small talk, fun interactions but I don't initiate or only if I feel comfortable with it somehow, depends on the other person or on my mood if I feel comfy like that
    Last edited by seeking it; 11-27-2022 at 09:54 PM.

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    a video is preferred

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    a video is preferred
    Thanks for your response, unfortunately I can't post a video.

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    In other news....forget what I wrote about what I'd like help with. I'm over that now. I don't care anymore if I have to argue and don't worry about obligations or hints of obligations pushed on me. So that's solved, back to my normal self.


    Rightnow I'm thinking nevermind, my normal self is like, I don't even like the word "help"


    So to stop complicating this further, and I'm not in the mood to try and ramble on, my updated answer to the question, "In what areas of your life would you like help?":


    I need help with nothing, because it just doesn't work like that lol, I don't even like the words "help" or "support"

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    May look like an LSI, but -Te. Metaphor's Avatar
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    Maybe Beta NF, definitely clarity-seeking or FeTi IME values.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Maybe Beta NF, definitely clarity-seeking or FeTi IME values.
    Thanks much for your input.

    Do you mind elaborating on what kind of clarity you have in mind here? Where do you see it in my post?

    I'd also be interested in how anyone else sees me as I've posted a fair bit on here by now I've also been authentic, sharing my actual opinions without trying to be polite or PC or anything lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Thanks much for your input.

    Do you mind elaborating on what kind of clarity you have in mind here? Where do you see it in my post?

    I'd also be interested in how anyone else sees me as I've posted a fair bit on here by now I've also been authentic, sharing my actual opinions without trying to be polite or PC or anything lol
    It basically means valuing Ti/Fe and it's from Jack Aaron from World Socionics Society (WSS) he has a very informative section in his blog Take a look :

    http://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/2...cs-part-3.html

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    @seeking itI'm almost certain your type is LSI-Se. You seem to have Se and Ti in your ego block and your style of communication and other things you've said resembles other LSI-Se I know of. The only other type I could see is ILE-Ti, but that seems much less likely than LSI-Se.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    It basically means valuing Ti/Fe and it's from Jack Aaron from World Socionics Society (WSS) he has a very informative section in his blog Take a look :

    http://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/2...cs-part-3.html
    Looked at it... Tbh I started falling asleep reading the phrase "consistent, self-evident truth" Bc I'm not a philosopher type

    But yea I get annoyed at contradictions if there are too many of them or they are just too crazy. I mean the smaller contradictions you run into constantly, my brain just fixes them automatically because I am just that cool.

    I'm actually very factual and "flat" in my thinking and for a large part of my worldview. I do NOT make decisions based on emotion like this describes for Fe/Ti. Let alone decisions based on a "buzz" from others...what? What does that even mean?

    And yea I definitely learned to avoid dishonest and unreliable, not loyal people, not touching them with a ten-foot pole. Tbh it's due to some bad experiences, but I'm always ready to blow up nowadays if I get the gut intuition that someone important to me is lying to me even if it's about a small thing. I try not to blow up tho rest assured And with strangers or random acquaintances I don't care to get that emotionally involved

    And I'm not really open with emotional expression as far as how I really am feeling. I don't like to talk about my personal feelings. And don't like to show if I got excited or happy if I don't feel at ease with the people around (only thing I'm comfortable expressing is some controlled anger in those situations). I would also say it is very important to me that my closer relationships be stable and totally sincere yea. I used to be tolerant of and very patient with and open to emotionally up/down stuff lol, but I got tired of it after certain experiences. Maybe I'll find it entertaining again later but right now nope. It makes me paranoid.

    Coming back to the issue of the sincerity of people in my "inner circle". This issue of sincerity, or general consistency, authenticity and transparency is EXTREMELY important to me now. I used to be like....not seeing anything wrong with it if someone knew well how to act emotions, because it can be fun like they know how to entertain you, right? I never worried if someone was obviously acting to show totally fake emotions because I didn't see any danger in that. But I don't know anymore, I get paranoid about that too now. But again I used to be extreme in not caring if someone acted stuff or showed sincere feelings. I am just at the other extreme now, lol.

    (It's not that I was that risk-taking emotionally, I just trusted my objective filter to help me avoid problems. Turned out I trusted it too much)

    I still like people doing entertainment like that but only if it's about small, innocent things.... if I sense negative drama, the person trying to influence me with made-up "acted" negative emotions, and if those emotions are strongly expressed enough, I'm gone from the scene right away. Even if it's actually how they are feeling in the moment and are just sincerely upset, I perceive it as them trying to manipulate me into guilt or obligation. Or if they try to flatter me too much with fake nice emotional expressions. Thanks but no

    I used to be like, just either be calm and patient trying to deal with the person, or get hot headed if they pissed me off with their negativity or if I sensed they were bullshitting me. Now the hot-headedness would be a bad blow-up is why I leave the scene instead of exploding, or I simply lose trust in the person and close myself off. I know that sounds extreme but well that's how it is, but I'm working on it. I really am working on it and I've got better but eh. This is still how it is basically

    So when I say thanks but no.... I mean that I want to see the person has actually sincere and consistent feelings of actually valuing me, and of actual emotional involvement, for that person to be let any closer than random acquaintance or superficial buddy. I've learned to watch and read the small signs for all that. (Ok still learning but damn, I've spent a LOT of time on this) Because if I've learned one thing, it is that the objective factual evaluation cannot be enough to filter out the truly dishonest people if I let them close enough to me. My objectivity as a filter works fine if the person is not that close to me.

    So I wrote a lot here but it's because all this made me think and go like hey does it even make sense. Like does this even fit into Socionics in any way lol



    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    @seeking itI'm almost certain your type is LSI-Se. You seem to have Se and Ti in your ego block and your style of communication and other things you've said resembles other LSI-Se I know of. The only other type I could see is ILE-Ti, but that seems much less likely than LSI-Se.
    Thanks much for your input too.

    I'd be interested if you could verbalise how my style of communication etc. seem to you, and how ILE-Ti would be an option too
    Last edited by seeking it; 12-03-2022 at 10:40 PM.

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    @seeking it Some things you said like Heya! and the way you write and things you wrote gave me the same impressions I got from an LSI-Se a while back... extremely similar. She was Anna Moss (author of Relationship Red Flags, she also has youtube videos, you can see if you see yourself as visually similar to her, but when she did those videos she was in a really serious, angry state of mind). I really cared about her... I didn't really require her to adjust to me emotionally, my own love for her was more important than her feelings towards me, if she even had any towards me (other than sympathy, I guess she didn't). In your most recent post, you mention you're factual and objective and make it sound like you don't make decisions off emotion.

    Now that you said you value sincerity and the way you made it sound like you never make decisions off of emotion, ILE-Ti is now off my list and I'm certain you're an LSI-Se... ILE-Ti will often want to boost their sensory emotional state, much more than many LSI-Se and that's making decision with emotion.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    @seeking it Some things you said like Heya! and the way you write and things you wrote gave me the same impressions I got from an LSI-Se a while back... extremely similar. She was Anna Moss (author of Relationship Red Flags, she also has youtube videos, you can see if you see yourself as visually similar to her, but when she did those videos she was in a really serious, angry state of mind). I really cared about her... I didn't really require her to adjust to me emotionally, my own love for her was more important than her feelings towards me, if she even had any towards me (other than sympathy, I guess she didn't). In your most recent post, you mention you're factual and objective and make it sound like you don't make decisions off emotion.

    Now that you said you value sincerity and the way you made it sound like you never make decisions off of emotion, ILE-Ti is now off my list and I'm certain you're an LSI-Se... ILE-Ti will often want to boost their sensory emotional state, much more than many LSI-Se and that's making decision with emotion.
    I looked at one video of hers on youtube, I think I relate to the mix of calmness and that serious/angry thing you mention, physically I don't look like her but I'm younger too. I do feel like she's a bit more angry and maybe more mistrustful than me though, just an impression from a glimpse at a short video.

    (Yes as far as mistrust, I said I get these extremely paranoid moments but I always try very hard to work through them and it's not my default)

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    Actually, she did seem sympathetic to me, but I don't blame her if she were not. I forgot that part of our long correspondence.
    @seeking itLet me know if you have any specific questions that can allow me to convince you that your sociotype is LSI-Se. It's good that you're still taking in new information before you decide.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    Actually, she did seem sympathetic to me, but I don't blame her if she were not. I forgot that part of our long correspondence.
    @seeking itLet me know if you have any specific questions that can allow me to convince you that your sociotype is LSI-Se. It's good that you're still taking in new information before you decide.
    Thanks & for the offer as well. You like to convince people eh? Fits your typing.

    Anyway, yeah, so I'm for example hung up on the Aggressor thing. Here's what I said about it elsewhere on here:


    • this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy - I don't know. I'll think something's really vanilla and it already scares others or they think it's a shitty put-down when it's just a joke. Whatever I think of as NOT vanilla...but actual cruelty...I will only do it if the other person deserves it & I believe that I must do it. So this is very rare. Or if I was to take shit out on others....but I simply will not do that. And so overall I don't know many people who know how to handle something that's a little aggressive but not actually mean, let alone cruel or hateful & keep it just fun yet real, not overly "light". So I view my behaviour with close partners as nothing like cruel whatsoever, just boring vanilla. That is...either straightforward demanding or just generic interactions, no intentional games. I think it also depends on the interaction partner. Some people try to provoke me for fun and I respond too aggressively for them instead of making it a game (which is ok, I don't end up attracted to those people anyways). Or some would joke with me, I would actually see it as jokes because we were already flirting, and so I would respond with actual jokes back and that then would be seen as put-downs. Again I would not get closer with such people. And I've had romantic partners thinking I was being mean whenever I'd tell them off, while I did not think I was mean, plus they were no less mean than me. So yeah, I'm not gonna try and answer this question. It gets too complex.
      EDIT: I recall some people now where I'd often consciously feel like it was power struggles that I enjoyed but I don't think if I'd just call them "games" either, it's not like "fun light-hearted jokes" so....

      NOTE: For the last part I meant it's for real, these power struggles, not as some fun joke or light fun game or whatever. But then maybe my threshold is where all this is "off" for me, when I try to interpret these descriptions in Socionics. So like maybe the light fun games, or what I see as such, will be seen as power struggles too by some and whatnot... Or what I don't see as cruel or mean, certain other people will call it that. Who knows

      (from https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1543377)

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    May look like an LSI, but -Te. Metaphor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Thanks much for your input.

    Do you mind elaborating on what kind of clarity you have in mind here? Where do you see it in my post?

    I'd also be interested in how anyone else sees me as I've posted a fair bit on here by now I've also been authentic, sharing my actual opinions without trying to be polite or PC or anything lol
    Clarity-Seeking - Value Laws and Emotion. Clarity-Seeking types are geared towards open expression of how they are feeling to the people around them, making decisions based on unambiguous feelings of fun, excitement or meaning as well as the buzz they get from others. They need to understand things with clarity, making absolute sense of their reality in line with a consistent, self-evident truth.
    https://worldsocionics.blogspot.com/...cs-part-3.html
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Clarity-Seeking - Value Laws and Emotion. Clarity-Seeking types are geared towards open expression of how they are feeling to the people around them, making decisions based on unambiguous feelings of fun, excitement or meaning as well as the buzz they get from others. They need to understand things with clarity, making absolute sense of their reality in line with a consistent, self-evident truth.
    Thanks...I'm hardly "geared towards open expression of how I am feeling" ha ha but interesting. Consistency is important to me in some actions.... I've noticed some people hate it if I call them out on major inconsistencies in their actions. Like they get impossibly defensive... Total communication breakdown, lol. Because I am pissed off over the inconsistencies and will not back down, and they will not either.... that is when I see dishonesty etc. too.
    Last edited by seeking it; 12-18-2022 at 07:32 AM.

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    Also still interested in inputs from others.

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    @Rusal if you don't mind the mention, I've just read an analysis of yours in the EIE girl thread, I think it was awesome, I'd be really interested in it if you could give me one too.

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    @seeking it

    Not LSI-Se

    I see a lot of Ni impact compared to Se Subtype

    The first time I read the questionnare, I thought of LSI-Ti because you seem to have Ni hidden agenda of xSI : to believe ( esp when you talked about your beliefs )
    Last edited by Squirrel; 12-19-2022 at 03:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowgirl View Post
    @seeking it

    Not LSI-Se

    I see a lot of Ni impact compared to Se Subtype

    The first time I read the questionnare, I thought of LSI-Ti because you seem to have Ni hidden agenda of xSI : to believe ( esp when you talked about your beliefs )
    Thanks for the input. Hey that's another compliment. About my Ni being so great. What have you experienced/observed with Se subtypes re: their lower Ni?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Thanks for the input. Hey that's another compliment. About my Ni being so great. What have you experienced/observed with Se subtypes re: their lower Ni?
    Honestly there's no xSI-Se around me to notice but in general, strengthening the function leads to weakening of the function that opposites it, and thus: a stronger Se leads to weaker Ni
    Souls know their way back home

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    @seeking itWith all due respect... why haven't you accepted the LSI-Se typing? What reservations do you have about it? Why not look at what types you think you couldn't possibly be or that you think are extremely unlikely.

    Assuming everything you've said is true, it's pretty obvious to me that your type is LSI-Se, the fact that you said you enjoy power struggles indicates Beta ST creative function subtype (SLE-Ti or LSI-Se)... those two types love power struggles, I've seen many, many examples of each. You can rule out LII of both subtypes because they don't actually enjoy power struggles, they will go into them if they have to, but they're extremely unlikely to do them for their own enjoyment... unless your power struggles were for someone else's enjoyment. LSI-Ti tend to have regrets about their power struggles and don't come out of them too well (hillary clinton and former police officer albin pearson who murdered my SLE-Ti friend and then lost his job, got arrested himself, and is now in jail)... LSI-Se do enjoy power struggles and they can charm people and logically make their way out of them, LSI-Ti are less able to do so unless they have power and even then they may not enjoy them.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    @seeking itWith all due respect... why haven't you accepted the LSI-Se typing? What reservations do you have about it? Why not look at what types you think you couldn't possibly be or that you think are extremely unlikely.
    I'm not interested in unlikely options, I'm not gonna look at any Ethical types for sure lol

    Anyway I'd just like to hear a bit more from people before I "finalise" anything for an "official" self-typing.



    Assuming everything you've said is true, it's pretty obvious to me that your type is LSI-Se, the fact that you said you enjoy power struggles indicates Beta ST creative function subtype (SLE-Ti or LSI-Se)... those two types love power struggles, I've seen many, many examples of each. You can rule out LII of both subtypes because they don't actually enjoy power struggles, they will go into them if they have to, but they're extremely unlikely to do them for their own enjoyment... unless your power struggles were for someone else's enjoyment. LSI-Ti tend to have regrets about their power struggles and don't come out of them too well (hillary clinton and former police officer albin pearson who murdered my SLE-Ti friend and then lost his job, got arrested himself, and is now in jail)... LSI-Se do enjoy power struggles and they can charm people and logically make their way out of them, LSI-Ti are less able to do so unless they have power and even then they may not enjoy them.
    I didn't follow the last part, the bolded stuff. Mind rephrasing?

    As far as the power struggles, I don't enjoy it if it's turned into a jokey form or like "just a game". I only enjoy it when it's real lol

    Plus I'm not a trolly person at all...if that counts for typing.

    Edit: When I said I don't enjoy it in jokey forms, I meant that I get too into it and then it's just not like anything light like a joke/game. If that makes sense.

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    i'm interested in what conclusions you guys come to
    i don't have much logical reason for this but i would be satisfied with LSI typing, mayyybe ESI, in my opinion you seem to have -Fi but i am not sure, i am not sure if you're contrarian enough to be gamma (or if that is even a prerequisite to be in gamma but i do notice my ESI brother having some strange ethics)
    you did immediately strike me as Se/Ni valuing so no question there
    you seem very interested in cutting through bullshit and adjusting perspectives to make sense to you
    SLE is another choice but i doubt you're SEE, i seem to have this perception that they're too jovial

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasleine View Post
    i'm interested in what conclusions you guys come to
    i don't have much logical reason for this but i would be satisfied with LSI typing, mayyybe ESI, in my opinion you seem to have -Fi but i am not sure, i am not sure if you're contrarian enough to be gamma (or if that is even a prerequisite to be in gamma but i do notice my ESI brother having some strange ethics)
    you did immediately strike me as Se/Ni valuing so no question there
    you seem very interested in cutting through bullshit and adjusting perspectives to make sense to you
    SLE is another choice but i doubt you're SEE, i seem to have this perception that they're too jovial
    Thanks for your input.

    I would agree with the bolded.

    What do you mean by -Fi, I'm not too well-versed in the +- stuff. ?

    Hm I thought it's betas that are the most contrarian

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    somewhat haphazard style and unconvincing thinking, emotionally mobile and expressive, quite personable - very likely ethical, maybe irrational
    the continued interest in being typed and the username may indicate valued Ne. SEI or IEE are possible. IEE have less of a childish enthusiasm for the perceptions of others on their personality, but you seem a little more complex than what is usual for SEI
    beyond using ITR, a video is still a good idea if you're curious
    Last edited by nifl; 12-20-2022 at 09:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Thanks for your input.

    I would agree with the bolded.

    What do you mean by -Fi, I'm not too well-versed in the +- stuff. ?

    Hm I thought it's betas that are the most contrarian
    i'm not well versed either, lol to be honest i totally made it up. i just feel that the +- makes sense, +Fi seems to be more "innocent" when it comes to Fi ideals when -Fi can be more aggressive in their assessments. i don't really know how to explain it to be honest i'm sorry. maybe i'll come up with something later down the line. i think that both Gammas and Betas are contrarian, it is just that the Beta seems to flit between perspectives more easily than the Gamma, the Gamma seems to truly believe whatever conviction they settle on but may have a hard time expressing it in a way that isn't extremely violent lol. but i have a limited sample size. to be honest with you i feel you might be more extreme than you let on, but i am just expressing immediate sentiments. this whole site could do with some VI tbh lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    somewhat haphazard style and unconvincing thinking, emotionally mobile and expressive, quite personable - very likely ethical, maybe irrational
    the continued interest in being typed and the username may indicate valued Ne. SEI or IEE are possible. IEE have less of a childish enthusiasm for the perceptions of others on their personality, but you seem a little more complex than what is usual for SEI
    beyond using ITR, a video is still a good idea if you're curious
    Thanks for the input. How does my username seem Ne valuing in your opinion? Unfortunately I can't post a video.


    Quote Originally Posted by pasleine View Post
    i'm not well versed either, lol to be honest i totally made it up. i just feel that the +- makes sense, +Fi seems to be more "innocent" when it comes to Fi ideals when -Fi can be more aggressive in their assessments. i don't really know how to explain it to be honest i'm sorry. maybe i'll come up with something later down the line. i think that both Gammas and Betas are contrarian, it is just that the Beta seems to flit between perspectives more easily than the Gamma, the Gamma seems to truly believe whatever conviction they settle on but may have a hard time expressing it in a way that isn't extremely violent lol. but i have a limited sample size. to be honest with you i feel you might be more extreme than you let on, but i am just expressing immediate sentiments. this whole site could do with some VI tbh lol.
    No worries it made sense alright. I think I do like to believe in my convictions, and I can be pretty aggressive and divisive when expressing some of them. People sometimes think I'm trying to argue when I am being just slightly provocative. (Not that I am not open to arguing, I am plenty disagreeable in this sense.) Not extremely violent though lol. So yeah you maybe have a good gut sense there seeing through my mask ahaha

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    I've used the questionnaire @Snowgirl posted, link to it: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1545843


    Answered one question for each section.


    Section 1 (Te)

    - If you struggle to do something, how do you fix that? Do you know if your performance is better or worse than others?

    I get pissed off, angry, low frustration threshold in terms of I cannot hold it in, it becomes too much anger after a while of working hard at the problem, so I act out then I go on working on the problem, will be able to logically think about it again when calm. On a good day I am calmer for longer before I get angry. I assess my performance against other people's based on relevant criteria, standards, actual results.


    Section 2 (Ti)

    - Are your ideas consistent? How do you know they are consistent? How do you spot inconsistency in others' ideas?

    I look for that feeling, do they add up. Does it make sense. If the answer is yes then they are consistent. Whether my own thoughts or other people's ideas.


    It helps to verify that sense by deductively reasoning it out if there are many details, just in case / checking for errors, missed details etc.


    Also ensure emotions are not biasing the ideas, thoughts.


    Section 3 (Se)

    - Can you press people? What methods do you use? How does it happen?

    Blaah you mean pressuring people right? You can do it directly via issuing demands, possibly using force, e.g. threats or coercion (this is not a nice thing right), but being persistent either way. Or indirectly, by being subtle, careful, diplomatic while achieving your goal anyway. Or (again indirect method) by arranging the situation so that the situation itself is set up to your advantage. You can do it indirectly via another party or parties too. Being able to read the other person also helps but if you have the absolute power in the situation then you can afford not having to do so


    Section 4 (Si)

    - How do you satisfy your physical senses? What examples can you give? What physical experiences are you drawn to?

    I like aesthetics, aesthetic stuff a lot. I surround myself with that stuff, I furnished and organised my flat accordingly, I dress well, wear good quality jewellery and so on. In my flat I put away items in the kitchen that look old and stuff. When things get very worn and old I like to throw them out bc they look crap then unless I can put them away like that and they still have some use. Because looks and also how those looks, appearances of me and my possessions come off are very important to me overall.


    Speaking of possessions... you don't literally possess people but I like my partner looking good enough, attractive too. I don't have crazy high requirements in this area, I'm reasonable, but I do have a few little preferences that I like my partner to follow.


    I like to eat good food but I'm happy with simple food that satisfies my hunger and tastes well in the moment but I do need some variety in food choices from time to time. I used to be very picky with food as a kid, I am still picky a bit. A lot less picky tho'


    I like physical comfort in general. Nice to completely and intensely relaxxx (for a short time) and lying down in bed to fall asleep.


    What physical experiences I'm drawn to.... sex, esp variety in sex, and travelling, the farther the better lol. Ok well I like very sunny very hot beaches with good drinks and tall mountains that are hard to climb. Maybe some extreme sport, I was invited to try parachuting or something like that (not sure of the phrasing in English) and I said ok but we didn't get around to it since then. You need to do courses first to be ready to actually do it. I like the experience of racing, competition....the experience of winning while we are at this topic. Hard, rough, aggressive games. Fast cars, and the like. I like speed in general. I would like to try a F1 car lol once I almost had the chance in my country but someone else won the ticket to trying out the ride in that car. I overall like extreme experiences and ones that are hard to pull off or are rough (can be risky too but not like I want to risk my life or get maimed permanently). I like going very long too (walk or run, esp. on hilly trails), navigating, where you are going who knows where.... alone at night too. Etc....


    I mentioned drinks... I like social drinking but I drink hard then, hard spirits only. Not interested in beer at all except Guinness sometimes


    OK I think I'll stop, this is a long enough answer already to give enough of an impression of my tastes.


    Section 5 (Fe)

    - How do others' emotions affect you? How does your internal emotional state correlate or contrast with what you express?


    I usually if I see people's expressions and I recognise them then I'll just know what they are feeling. I usually do not get strongly affected, I just mirror people.


    So yeah again, people's expressions do not strongly affect me. Anger affects me the least. Romantic expressions affect me the most.


    I try to control my external expressions by 1) smile nicely & just generally mirror the other people (this is automatic mirroring) 2) leave the situation 3) show anger instead of my other feelings 4) make sure I do not feel anything inside.


    I mean I try to not express if I don't want them to show. I can control crying for example, by turning it into anger so then I won't be shedding tears, and won't look sad.


    I leave when I am not sure that I am not expressing anything I would not like known to others, or when I cannot hold back some strong expressing and do not want to show it to anyone.


    Section 6 (Fi)

    - How do you move from a distant relationship to a close one? What are the distinguishing characteristics of a close relationship?

    I don't, because, I know in theory what to do to make relationships more intimate, but I feel like it would take forever for me to keep doing those things to get any visible results.


    I mean doing all the little and not so little things that express that, doing them regularly. (Deleted the long list of such things.) And then maybe the other person will reciprocate but that's out of my hands. Not under my control whatsoever. And ironically enough, you have to be open enough yourself for any of this to really work.... This would otherwise get incredibly frustrating and unfair. So.... Maybe easier to just go with the dance and not sweat it


    Distinguishing characteristics for closeness.... Real emotional intimacy.


    Things like.... Deleted, TLDR: Consistency, trust, emotional openness, no hate, no envy and no rivalry are key imo. Being loving, kind, etc will be necessary too for it


    Section 7 (Ne)

    - Describe your thought process when relating the following ideas: swimming, chicken, sciences. Do you think that others would draw the same or different connections?


    Here's the sentence I thought up: In some sciences they conduct interesting experiments like, having a chicken swimming around to test how well a promising chemical substance works in helping with the depression they induced in the chicken previously. (OK in reality, they test that kind of thing on rats, I've never heard of testing a potential antidepressant medication on chickens, probably because rats are closer to humans)


    My thought process to make up this sentence was... OK these words don't at all make sense together but wait.... There are actually experiments in some sciences where they have animals swim around to test them in these experiments. So why not imagine it being done with a chicken. Nothing really makes that impossible, it could be done. And then I had my sentence


    Section 8 (Ni)

    - In what situations is timing important? How do you know the time is right to act? How do you feel about waiting for the right moment?

    This feels very abstract to me, these questions.


    I have a really good gut sense of time. I always know how to be on time even though I often leave in the very last minute. This has highly impressed some people. I use this sense of time for planning out things. Like I know how long a task will take unless it's some very new task of course, or how to arrange todos, appointments. This gut sense of time does not work if I get too deep into my head but I don't often do that.


    As far as when the time is right to act I have no idea. I just have a plan with a timeline in my head, sometimes I make those, without any specific times for the events required before I act on the next part of the plan. And then I wait until those events happen and then I act.


    Waiting for the right moment is totally fine if I have an action plan like this. I am a patient person when it comes to this. I'm only impatient if it's like, I know I will have to act in the very near future but I don't know WHEN EXACTLY. I get really antsy and restless then and it gets hard trying to hold back from action. Because I am already ready and set to get into the action and then I can't do anything with that restless energy until then.
    Last edited by seeking it; 12-23-2022 at 05:47 AM.

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    Feel like you have some Se lead trait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    Feel like you have some Se lead trait.
    Thanks for your input.

    Would you be able to put your "Se lead trait" impression into words or some description or anything?

    Would be much appreciated.

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    Could also be 4d Se trait in general? Also your Si answer is the longest, so your Si may not a weak function. LSE maybe?


    I get pissed off, angry, low frustration threshold in terms of I cannot hold it in, it becomes too much anger after a while of working hard at the problem, so I act out then I go on working on the problem, will be able to logically think about it again when calm. On a good day I am calmer for longer before I get angry. I assess my performance against other people's based on relevant criteria, standards, actual results.

    I'm only impatient if it's like, I know I will have to act in the very near future but I don't know WHEN EXACTLY. I get really antsy and restless then and it gets hard trying to hold back from action. Because I am already ready and set to get into the action and then I can't do anything with that restless energy until then.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    Could also be 4d Se trait in general? Also your Si answer is the longest, so your Si may not a weak function. LSE maybe?


    I get pissed off, angry, low frustration threshold in terms of I cannot hold it in, it becomes too much anger after a while of working hard at the problem, so I act out then I go on working on the problem, will be able to logically think about it again when calm. On a good day I am calmer for longer before I get angry. I assess my performance against other people's based on relevant criteria, standards, actual results.

    I'm only impatient if it's like, I know I will have to act in the very near future but I don't know WHEN EXACTLY. I get really antsy and restless then and it gets hard trying to hold back from action. Because I am already ready and set to get into the action and then I can't do anything with that restless energy until then.
    Ah so you mean the anger&impatience thingy?

    As far as the Si answer yeah I don't know why that got the longest lol. Thanks for the input again

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Ah so you mean the anger&impatience thingy?

    As far as the Si answer yeah I don't know why that got the longest lol. Thanks for the input again
    Your Si answer somehow has more Se in it lol. 4d Se 3D Si seem make sense for you.

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    @seeking itLSI-Se more likely to enjoy struggles because they are better at arranging situations, manipulating objects/people than LSI-Ti. Also, LSI-Se are less concerned with what people think of them and about consequences, so they will enjoy struggles more than LSI-Ti. That's how they're better with power struggles.

    I've observed both types so much that's how I know.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    @seeking itLSI-Se more likely to enjoy struggles because they are better at arranging situations, manipulating objects/people than LSI-Ti. Also, LSI-Se are less concerned with what people think of them and about consequences, so they will enjoy struggles more than LSI-Ti. That's how they're better with power struggles.

    I've observed both types so much that's how I know.
    This makes sense yes. I will say outright that I would not consider LSI-Ti for myself. As far as me possibly being a LSI, I can be like, I'm able to sit and work for a long time on thorough, detailed tasks requiring strong concentration and patience but I would find such a life boring without enough emotional entertainment at the end of the workday/for holidays. And even then, in this hypothetical scenario I would be missing other things from my life, exactly the stuff you described. What I mean is, that I can't live without that stuff.

    But as far as the struggles, power games, I was saying I get too into it and it's anything but light fun then or anything that would look like "fun". It's too real for me. But I've thought about it more and I think I've had cases where I can do it in a fun atmosphere too, it's still about power but it's also fun mood, it is not something I do often but I've remembered now that I thoroughly enjoy that too, but that good mood HAS TO be really strong for it to work for me. Or else I'll be like "too real" with the power games.

    So since it can be fun too, that would not exclude being LSI-Se then.... It really is just that it has to be a really STRONGLY GOOD mood for me to register it and then let loose like that. (That's where I can seem like LSI-Ti ?? but I am sure I am not one.)

    I would not say that LSI-Ti can't be good with this though, I think their approach is just more indirect and patient and careful. But they can rise to power, a high position if they really want to. They are just less openly aggressive about it.

    My LSI-Ti friend, I have helped him with dealing with new things, new objects etc. He is good at figuring things out and is more thorough than me with it but he is slower at it, too. So he sometimes accepts my help there. I am also better at navigation in the environment, I'll see stuff he doesn't, etc.

    I've also enjoyed making him riled up for an argument. He by default never argues about stuff, let alone do a heated argument. But I decided that I wanted to draw him out so I managed to do exactly that. I've reallllly enjoyed seeing him that way

    Another thing I've thought of....you said LSI-Se is less concerned with what people think of them, and with consequences, I assume you mean social consequences. There is actually a part of me that I do not like, when I get too concerned about social consequences. Then I find it really hard to let loose and stuff. But you can still get me pissed off and then I will forget about the social concerns and will go into the fight right away.

    Can I ask, how many LSI-Ti and how many LSI-Se people have you observed closely? Just curious. Have you watched your duals too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    @seeking itLSI-Se more likely to enjoy struggles because they are better at arranging situations, manipulating objects/people than LSI-Ti. Also, LSI-Se are less concerned with what people think of them and about consequences, so they will enjoy struggles more than LSI-Ti. That's how they're better with power struggles.

    I've observed both types so much that's how I know.
    PS: I don't know why you keep switching between ESI-Fi and LSI-Ti. To me you are an obvious Logical type. Not ESI. Hope this helps some

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    Your Si answer somehow has more Se in it lol. 4d Se 3D Si seem make sense for you.
    I will take your input into account too. Yeah reading it back I can see the Se in the Si answer lol yea

    Funnily enough, I'm not sure why I made the Ti answer the shortest, seeing that some people are considering LSI for me

    Just was way more interested in the question about the physical senses, experiences, enjoyments

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    @seeking itIf I'm an LSI-Ti, then my older brother, our mother, 3 of her siblings, their mother, and at least one more for LSI-Ti I've closely observed.

    As for LSI-Se at least 10, if not more than 25.

    You should list all the reasons you would not be willing to accept LSI-Se as your type and then we can go from there. I'm almost certain your type is LSI-Se. You're definitely an ST, like I probably am.

    Also, what percentage of things would you say that your LSI-Ti friend sees when you're both navigating that you see? Do you think he sees more than most people or sees less than most people you've seen?

    Anyway, LSI-Se are easy to notice.
    Last edited by Disturbed; 12-24-2022 at 06:08 PM.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Disturbed View Post
    @seeking itIf I'm an LSI-Ti, then my older brother, our mother, 3 of her siblings, their mother, and at least one more for LSI-Ti I've closely observed.

    As for LSI-Se at least 10, if not more than 25.

    You should list all the reasons you would not be willing to accept LSI-Se as your type and then we can go from there. I'm almost certain your type is LSI-Se. You're definitely an ST, like I probably am.

    Also, what percentage of things would you say that your LSI-Ti friend sees when you're both navigating that you see? Do you think he sees more than most people or sees less than most people you've seen?

    Anyway, LSI-Se are easy to notice.
    Wow you have a family that has genes really concentrated as far as the stuff associated with what Ti stands for in Socionics.

    Yeah I am an ST.

    My reasons for still keeping my type thread open:

    - What I said about the power games above. But that's no longer important really, because I remembered how I can actually have fun versions of that.
    - The way I seem SLE and 4D Se a lot to some people
    - The way I seem that way to myself, low ability to reflect, no detailed planning etc.... and being really bad at close relations but that can just be 1D Fe lol

    None of these exclude me settling on the LSI-Se typing, but they are interesting things nonetheless.

    As for your question involving my LSI-Ti friend: I did not notice him being more absent-minded or more in his head or any of that compared to the average person. I am not sure how I would express his conscious attention on visible objects in percentages compared to what I see when navigating in the outside world. Maybe he has 50% of my attention? 70%? Not lower than 50% I don't think. Not higher than 70% either, is my guess, but all that's just a guess. He can see the world around him just fine of course, but he would take longer to notice some things, or he'd never notice, lol. But yah nothing out of the ordinary. He just felt like I've helped him sometimes with that. Don't forget also that he is older than me, that can matter too.

    Why do you ask?
    Last edited by seeking it; 12-25-2022 at 11:54 PM.

  40. #40

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    @seeking itThank you! I asked because I was curious about LSI-Ti and LSI-Se abilities, especially about how much they see.

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