Jordan Peterson

[Aylen]

Why are people so convinced he's any kind of NT anyways? He studies human thought and behaviour, he delivers the material in an emotionally expressive way, everything he talks about is ethical... why would he not be an ethical type?

ILI’s concept of morality is nowhere near as sophisticated as what Peterson demonstrates. ILIs usually have some basic ethical values that they follow and then if someone crosses their values they go on a bitter tirade and maybe they will seek retribution. They don’t have complex mental landscapes for morality. Even if they did, they would have trouble expressing those kinds of thoughts because it resides in the very introverted realm of Ni/Fi for them and Fe polr gets in the way of them clearly explaining why they feel a certain way about something. ILIs do not have the level of understanding of other people that JP shows nor do they have a real interest in discussing people this way, especially if the person being discussed has no relation to them. An ILI would not spend their time reading the diaries and autobiographies of mass murderers trying to understand why they did what they did. However, it is common for an IEI to seek to understand the behaviour of others.

Jordan Peterson has demonstrative Fi. His 4D Fi is used for other people, not himself. He thinks mainly about other people’s/ society's beliefs and identity, not his own as an individual. As I said before, he is concerned with universal morality (OBJECTIVE ETHICS) that underlies all of humankind. (That’s what Maps of Meaning is about). Simply discussing morality is not proof that someone values Fi. The person would have to be espousing their own morals and using these morals to judge the world around them. He doesn’t do that. When it comes to his own subjective views, he is clearly analyzing, not making moral judgements.

Also, ILIs are possibly the most monotonous type. JP gets really enthusiastic in his lectures sometimes to the point of yelling and gesticulating, and he breaks into tears a lot when talking about emotional stuff. Even on his official 12 Rules For Life audiobook he is crying while reading near the end of the book. This would be all very unlikely behaviour for an ILI.

Where is the Te? Where is the procedural logic and business acumen? He gives away his lectures for free on the internet. He does long livestreams each month to talk to his fans and followers and answer questions. What benefit would he get out of that in terms of productivity or financial gain? (I'm sure it helped him sell his book but that seems like a side benefit rather than the entire purpose of everything he does). It seems like he just likes connecting and discussing with people and building up a following.

I don't know or care about his type but this was very well thought out. I have a lot of experience with ILI irl, long term, and I agree with your take on them.

[The Reality Denialist]

Life authoring program is practically rationality overload!

[Soupman]

Why are people so convinced he's any kind of NT anyways? He studies human thought and behaviour, he delivers the material in an emotionally expressive way, everything he talks about is ethical... why would he not be an ethical type?

ILI’s concept of morality is nowhere near as sophisticated as what Peterson demonstrates. ILIs usually have some basic ethical values that they follow and then if someone crosses their values they go on a bitter tirade and maybe they will seek retribution. They don’t have complex mental landscapes for morality. Even if they did, they would have trouble expressing those kinds of thoughts because it resides in the very introverted realm of Ni/Fi for them and Fe polr gets in the way of them clearly explaining why they feel a certain way about something. ILIs do not have the level of understanding of other people that JP shows nor do they have a real interest in discussing people this way, especially if the person being discussed has no relation to them. An ILI would not spend their time reading the diaries and autobiographies of mass murderers trying to understand why they did what they did. However, it is common for an IEI to seek to understand the behaviour of others.

Jordan Peterson has demonstrative Fi. His 4D Fi is used for other people, not himself. He thinks mainly about other people’s/ society's beliefs and identity, not his own as an individual. As I said before, he is concerned with universal morality (OBJECTIVE ETHICS) that underlies all of humankind. (That’s what Maps of Meaning is about). Simply discussing morality is not proof that someone values Fi. The person would have to be espousing their own morals and using these morals to judge the world around them. He doesn’t do that. When it comes to his own subjective views, he is clearly analyzing, not making moral judgements.

Also, ILIs are possibly the most monotonous type. JP gets really enthusiastic in his lectures sometimes to the point of yelling and gesticulating, and he breaks into tears a lot when talking about emotional stuff. Even on his official 12 Rules For Life audiobook he is crying while reading near the end of the book. This would be all very unlikely behaviour for an ILI.

Where is the Te? Where is the procedural logic and business acumen? He gives away his lectures for free on the internet. He does long livestreams each month to talk to his fans and followers and answer questions. What benefit would he get out of that in terms of productivity or financial gain? (I'm sure it helped him sell his book but that seems like a side benefit rather than the entire purpose of everything he does). It seems like he just likes connecting and discussing with people and building up a following.

You still abide to the fallacy that NTs are researchers scientists whilst NFs are humanitarians, that's silly. I personally identify as ILI with Alpha values, nevertheless if you were to discover my moral/ethics you'd see that they are as well thought out as any person's with appropriate reason applied.

Nevertheless I'm not sure what socionics school you abide by but according to Gulenko's HS he'd most likely be LII - the mannerisms everything gives it away. Even Gulenko himself has said socionics is not an NT subject but is rather humanitarian, he's said that "my type doesn't change simply because I'm in a humanitarian environment" (Go ask him yourself on Facebook - and don't shoot the messenger, you can disagree with him if you like).

According to DCNH he's clearly a normaliser given his pronounced shift towards perfection - personal morality. Dominant LIIs are imposing, especially intellectually - something normalisers aren't despite seeming so with the endless criticism they give (these are never imposed).

[Kill4Me]

Added: https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/lii-ne/

[Kill4Me]

Peterson is a rather textbook example of LII. Less stereotypical LIIs are much easier to miss.

[Bertrand]

https://youtu.be/DKJb8PUfcr8?t=4576

here peterson touches on why polr is necessary for creativity and then goes into quadral stages, mainly aimed at beta, but he makes an alpha nervous and they talk about how alphas can self actualize too without going through a beta adolescent stage

[khcs]

Jordan Peterson - INFJ - Dostoyevsky

[ouronis]

[FDG]

Te = Standardization, bureaucracy, authority, professionalism, business skills, maximum output, following official procedures and laws

That's more LSE Te btw.

[Myst]

Throughout the video he describes what he's talking about as making order out of chaos/ keeping chaos under control. That's definitely Ti.

Ti lead

[Number 9 large]

"On the right to offend, Peterson was on stronger ground. “In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive,” he said. “I mean, look at the conversation we’re having right now. You’re certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth … And that is what you should do … More power to you, as far as I concerned.”"

Very Ti with Fi devaluing heh.

With some idealism added... So totally LII.

thats actually Te with Fe devaluing (bitter hard truth over caring of others emotions)

[ooo]

what about the necessity of suffering? or the maps of meaning? or do what you should be doing? and the focus on morality, and yet the aim to achieve what you want out of life? ILI seems to nail it all

[WinnieW]

J. Peterson is very similar in his way of expression as German philosopher Richard David Precht. I type both as ILI. They both have very weak

[The Reality Denialist]

what about the necessity of suffering? or the maps of meaning? or do what you should be doing? and the focus on morality, and yet the aim to achieve what you want out of life? ILI seems to nail it all

Basically maps of meaning tells that he is not living the meaning (aka ego driven).
He is also gained some control of his super-ego which usually happens later in life.

[ooo]

Basically maps of meaning tells that he is not living the meaning (aka ego driven).

how so? it looked to me like maps of meaning focused on how symbols/meanings have the power to construct your reality

[The Reality Denialist]

how so? it looked to me like maps of meaning focused on how symbols/meanings have the power to construct your reality

If you decode it you are not part of the flow.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Having a look at his Wikipedia entry https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson all his interests are humanitarian, which suggests NF. He has a sort of ethical look about him. Knowing nothing more about him, and not being inclined to learn more, that's all I'll say for now.

Edit: I'm almost inclined to say IEE, but shall see. He's very wrong on a great many things. Far too influenced by Jungian esotericism.

[WinnieW]

His ethics and morals are driven. What can be perceived as NF type in him is the combination of +

[ooo]

If you decode it you are not part of the flow.

I wish I could just read books without understanding (analyzing) them! I'm sure I'd feel more like a part of this world for sure, aye!
(quite ironically that's the exact opposite of the aim of his book though....)

[falsehope]

He was in the news yesterday. I had another look, and he seems to be LSI. Ti lead that for sure but not Alpha. These words about suffering in life and so on is so not Alpha.
Regarding Se, there's a lot of variance depending on IQ of the person. Low IQ Se is totally different than high IQ Se.
He may seem NF but psychology is his job therefore that's what he's talking about. But in private he may be different.

[Exodus]

I changed my mind, I think he is EIE now. He actually is very open-minded and an "idea guy", yet displays clear Se values IMO.

Let me bring some of his quotes:

• Pain is the only thing that people will never deny.
• Everybody acts out a myth,
  but very few people know what their myth is.
  And you should know what your myth is,
  because it might be a tragedy.
  And maybe you don't want it to be.
• Weak and miserable as I am, I can still stand up to the terrible tragedy of life and prevail!
• The truth is something that burns, it burns off deadwood and people don't like having their deadwood burnt off often because they're 95% deadwood
• Love is something like the notion that despite its suffering Being is good and you should serve Being.
• There is nothing more useful in combating the tragedy of life than to struggle with all your soul on behalf of the good.
• The human capacity for eternal transformation is the antidote to unbearable suffering and tragedy.
• Life is suffering, and suffering can make you resentful, murderous, and then genocidal if you take it far enough

And this very much does support Ni/Fe ego.

[Exodus]

I know I've already posted this but for those who think he is LII what do you make of this video?



“Life without depth is by definition shallow and meaningless”.
I don’t know any Alpha who would honestly care about their life being shallow. Sometimes I feel like they almost prefer it that way because they want everything light and positive and carefree. They just want to relax with some good food and make jokes and pleasant conversation.

“Life is not that simple, life is complex and tragic and difficult” <— this is the antithesis of everything Alpha

Things he is emphasizing in the video:
The quality of your life depends on how meaningful it is (Ni)
You need to have a wide range of emotions to deal with life, not just happiness (Fe, the Beta kind)
He dislikes the fact that people don’t feel comfortable expressing their true feelings of suffering because of the demands for a happy atmosphere all the time. (Betas value real/ intense emotional expression over constant positivity which is Alpha)
All of this is clear valuing of Ni/Fe over Si/Fe

I have an LII brother and there’s only so long I can talk to him about heavy serious topics like this before he will get uncomfortable and drained or try to make a joke out of it. And ESEs (the LII’s dual) would haaate hearing something like this. This is pure Ni. There are no open possibilities (Ne) in anything he is saying. Go to a group of Alphas and say something like this and I guarantee you wouldn’t be invited back lol.

Another good one

[falsehope]

So if Ti lead and Se/Ni values, then LSI, right? To me he has facial characteristics of LSI and none of EIE or IEI. Especially eyes. I think it's easier to type when the person is identical twin to someone you know the type. This guy is similar to the guy I've met in London and worked for 3 years with. He not only had the same facial features but also talked and behaved in the same way. I am sure he was LSI. This guy also seems to be of english descent, he's' very english like looking guy.

[The Reality Denialist]

I don't get it why people can type him anything but intuition creative (LII, EIE, LIE, EII). Both sides are visibly strong (not ignoring).

So called über high functioning LSI would still do something different.

[Chthonic Daydream]

Heard of him, he had a great spike in popularity lately, didn't he? I have friends with mixed feelings about him, though I stand neutral. I like and feel polarised by most of the quotes in this thread though, and Ni/Fe ego does seem right in my eyes. I saw two videos of the guy and he cried in both of them, publicly, as a side note.

[Olimpia]

[Exodus]

I don't get it why people can type him anything but intuition creative (LII, EIE, LIE, EII). Both sides are visibly strong (not ignoring).

So called über high functioning LSI would still do something different.

Yes, he does seem to have a lot of ambiguity between Ni and Ne (as well as Ne and Se). Nothing like the other intellectual LSIs I've typed (e.g. Christopher Langan or Leslie Lamport).

Heard of him, he had a great spike in popularity lately, didn't he? I have friends with mixed feelings about him, though I stand neutral. I like and feel polarised by most of the quotes in this thread though, and Ni/Fe ego does seem right in my eyes. I saw two videos of the guy and he cried in both of them, publicly, as a side note.

Link?

[Aylen]

Jordan has stated that he scores high in extroversion on the big five test.

I am not surprised after doing his HD chart. I may add this to the other thread.

Jordan's chart






vs Ra's chart






I know you can see what I am seeing here.

[Sol]

So if Ti lead and Se/Ni values, then LSI, right?

right is ENFP. it's not good to mix the personality with what people say simply

> To me he has facial characteristics of LSI and none of EIE or IEI

you should use nonverbal behavior

[Bertrand]

yeah jordan had cancer and it totally changed the way he looks

[perpetuus]

I was watching his conversation with Ben Shapiro and his ideas on truth smacked of Introverted Intuition.

[perpetuus]

I think he is a Beta, but if I had to guess a type from another quadra, I would suggest ILI.

[The Reality Denialist]

LOLZ

Demonstration of his failure in logic.

Something that I have also detected in him. Jumps to conclusions.

[perpetuus]

There is something a little off putting about the "this is how it's been for X period time" points he often makes. Even in the infamous Cathy Newman Interview/Debate, which he performed well in, it was very obvious when he made those type of points. They're made in a very matter-of-fact manner, so it can be misleading to people who disagree with him. The reason he performed so well was partially due to her own aggressive manner and rush to conclusions. So he didn't really have to try that hard to come out of it looking good.

It's not difficult to look brilliant when the left sends their B Team to debate.

[arigato]

Link?

There's way more but this is the best one lol. Very NF humanitarian.

[perpetuus]

IEI-Ni Subtype.

[perpetuus]

Finally someone that can see it.

It seems quite clear to me. My first impression was SLI, then it was ILI.

I watched more videos, particularly the one linked where he broke down in tears. Then it started to seem obvious

This man exudes Ni and Fe.

[whodat]

He is brilliant and no I'm not calling him my dual. This goes beyond socionics. He will def be one of the greats from history and his words are going to be derivatives for decades. I'm going to be 70 and still hearing Jordan in the ether. He just has that much influence.

[whodat]

I feel bad for him, his standing his ground is taking a toll, you can see it all over his face. Same thing happened to Dawkins.

[whodat]

yeah jordan had cancer and it totally changed the way he looks

He looks weathered by turmoil, yeah. Also being on the fringe, and right at the same time, will do that too.