How to tell the difference between the IEI/INFp idealising you and being attracted to you.

[Prince Andrei]

Hey Guys

So there's an IEI I find very attractive and we're really close friends. In fact we recognise each other as soulmates and chat to each other online everyday (no surprise to anyone who knows socionics given we're duals) and our chats are full of playful teasing and jokes. We also catch up in person once a month or so and feel the leveling of energy that duals experience (we spend 4 or 5 hours together and the time flies by and is never awkward). He's also much younger than me, 14 years younger actually and still only 18! As extraordinary as that is what makes it even more extraordinary is that we originally met simply by him serving me groceries at a corner store every week - and we built up a friendship from there.

We both love each other and hold each other in high esteem. He's amazed that I can tell that he feels bounded by a special energy and that I can tell his soul is poetically elevated (I know many IEIs feel this but I actually believe it's true!). He sees me as a very capable and successful person, setup with a house and prestigious career (which is objectively true) and wants to emulate me in that regard. In fact he wants me to help look after him in his career and work for me later on. We've occasionally joked about him being the stay at home partner just wandering about while I'm the breadwinner. I think the easy life appeals to him as it does many IEIs.

He also has a girlfriend and has said he's straight. But I think he just might be hiding a bit as he is quite young. What makes me think he's hiding a bit is that when we hang out he lets me get away with a lot of playful touching. I'll grab hold of him around the waist. I'll brush my hand on his legs, I'll stoke his hair, when we speak I'm very much in his personal space, I mean real close, way closer than friends should be. Another time we were chatting he was sitting down and protruding his chest a bit while rubbing his chest from side to side. On another occasion he was outside his other work and wasn't expecting me and when I surprised him he gave me this really loving look with fawning eyes. Another friend of mine was with me and told me afterwards completely unprompted that I have a good chance with him. It was the look described in this post below:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ted-to-someone

So I suppose what I want to know is whether he does find me attractive or whether he's simply idolising me the way that IEIs do with people they see as capable of helping them.

[GuavaDrunk]

... Ask him? No way to tell without actually seeing him, since you're primed to look for favourable clues.

You can say something like: "Hey, noticed something, wanted to ask what you think - comes across like you might be into me, what do things look like from your end?"

However now I think about it, it's likely in your best interest to just come on out with "I really like you." Given the touchy behaviour, it'd be a little surprising if he hadn't noticed anything. Your asking the above question would come across as disingenuous and not very brave.

[Sol]

> He also has a girlfriend and has said he's straight.

I suppose you'd could to notice the signes of sexual interest to you. They'd were often and clear, if you are emotionally close.

[Tallmo]

There is really no way of knowing other than continue flirting and see where it goes. Take the risk etc.

I think this question is related to sensitive Fi PoLR. "Is this really genuine..."

He also has a girlfriend and has said he's straight.

LOL. This is of course a very strong objective sign of being straight, you have to admit that Although he might be hiding something as you said.

[whodat]

Touch him more and then you will know.

[Rebelondeck]

The gap between an 18 and 32 year old is much, much wider that the one between a 28 and 42 year old. You seem to be looking for the rationalization for a romantic adult-child relationship. No matter how mature an 18 year old may appear, that person has another 7 years of brain development to undergo. Many at this age are prone to succumb to influences of libido and more experienced people so I think the 32 year old has to provide the reality check - i.e., the bulk of the maturity and insight......

a.k.a. I/O

[lavos]

IEI's are not the only ones that idealize other people in relationships.

[Prince Andrei]

The gap between an 18 and 32 year old is much, much wider that the one between a 28 and 42 year old. You seem to be looking for the rationalization for a romantic adult-child relationship. No matter how mature an 18 year old may appear, that person has another 7 years of brain development to undergo. Many at this age are prone to succumb to influences of libido and more experienced people so I think the 32 year old has to provide the reality check - i.e., the bulk of the maturity and insight......
On
a.k.a. I/O

This is irrelevant for duals.

[Adam Strange]

This is irrelevant for duals.

I tend to agree that age differences are irrelevant to duals with respect to information exchange. I feel a strong connection IRL to my duals at every age I've met them (which is between 18 and 50, for the record), and I'm pretty sure they feel that connection, too.

I just talked for four hours to a 25 year-old male ESI whom I barely knew and we both interacted like old friends (I'm over twice his age). The same thing happened when I talked to a 22 year old ESI female on and off for several weeks. I believe that each dual's strong, mature functions are always talking to the other dual's weak, immature functions, so temporal age differences are usually outweighed by the individual's developmental differences.
In non-duals, though, @Rebelondeck is perfectly correct. He's also correct for everyone when it comes to social maturity and insight differences. When a 22 year old dual wanted to have a "fling" with me, I told her I was too old for her (technically a lie, especially for what she was proposing) because I felt that there would have been too great a social power difference. (I also knew her father, FWIW. IDK. Maybe I was wrong about that. It's an ethical question and is tough for me to answer.)

As for your question about how to tell when an IEI likes you, I think you've gotten some great advice already. In my experience, I think it is best to just be direct. Otherwise, IEI's are fantastic at enabling people to believe what they want to believe, when that is to their advantage. So just ask. Be direct, and watch out for ambiguous answers that can be interpreted. If he likes you, he'll most likely go with you right away.

I once told an IEI that I wanted to sleep with her. She said, "That will never happen." And it never did.

Another IEI asked me if I ever planned to get married again, and I told her yes, but I was looking for a dual. She asked me, "How long do you plan to wait, because I haven't found any other man who is suitable for me." Then she went into an oblique discussion of her advantages, but I told her that two Victims would not work out.

IEI's can be pretty clear when you are direct with a question.

[Rebelondeck]

One cannot be 100% sure of people's types before they reach the age of approximately 25. Don't confuse youthful plasticity (adaptability, willingness, etc.) with duality.........

a.k.a. I/O

[at sirac son of sirac]

One cannot be 100% sure of people's types before they reach the age of approximately 25. Don't confuse youthful plasticity (adaptability, willingness, etc.) with duality.........

a.k.a. I/O

Problem though

After age 25 people may have become messed up/jaded with life that duality no longer 'works':

However, let's not idealise these relations too much. Although theoretically relations of Duality are the best of the best, practically not everybody who is your Dual will make your dreams come true. The reason for this is that we are usually so twisted up during the course of our lives that our already formed and stable views and attitudes can affect our relationships quite heavily. In fact, younger people have more chance to succeed in the quest for their perfect partner than older people. But the chances are always there.

http://www.socionics.com/rel/dlt.htm

I'm of the view that the traditional approach, of marrying young, is the best way to grow and develop together.

If this is missed, of course, as the article says, there is always hope (or rather, chances), but with increased damage accrual comes increased compromise requirement (therefore more effort being expended, less success.)

[Bertrand]

I see just as many people marry young with their conflictor and develop hardened patterns of relating that are fundamentally unhealthy for them. marrying young has the benefit of not already being hardened at the onset so if you meet your dual you might be able to adjust even if you had a poor example set by your environment until then, but it cuts both ways where you might simply adjust to a negative ITR and assume it to be normal or that there aren't better options out there, so I think being young is mostly neutral as to finding an ideal relationship. I think the difference is that older people who havent found the "perfect partner" are simply running out of time, not that they're in any innately inferior position. its also a selection effect, people in a position where at a young age found their ideal relationship are unlikely to break up and therefore the "older people" who are actually looking necessarily are selected as the group that was not so fortunate (but it may be pure circumstance and not some quality of their own). whether marrying early is a good or bad idea then seems to me not to be something categorical but justified based on the surrounding circumstances. if you meet your dual and fall genuinely in love than marrying is great, if you meet your conflictor and marry because you're afraid of being alone or are living out the dysfunctional patterns modeled by your parents, then marrying is going to be rough. ultimately though you can learn a lot from your conflictor, and I think marriage is a good thing in general. care of the self by Foucault goes into this quite a bit

[Prince Andrei]

One cannot be 100% sure of people's types before they reach the age of approximately 25. Don't confuse youthful plasticity (adaptability, willingness, etc.) with duality.........

a.k.a. I/O

I think Socionic type can be evident in as early as elementary aged children. But definitely at least by puberty. There are certain glances and nuances specific to types. If you know what to look for you can identify accurately. I know two EIE women, one is 24 the other is 55 and they move and gesture and glance in a certain way that EIEs do despite the vast difference in age and maturity.

[Adam Strange]

^ @Prince Andrei, When my SLI son was born, he was wrapped in a blanket and handed to me and he was calm, just looking around, taking it all in. Not crying, zero drama. Clint Eastwood at age two minutes. He hasn't changed a bit since then.

[GuavaDrunk]

This is irrelevant for duals.

It matters if you are at all concerned about things like unbalanced implicit power dynamics due to differing amounts of life experience. These are an efficient way to mess up good relationships in the long run, and in the short run: well, they can become grating pretty fast.

[Prince Andrei]

^ @Prince Andrei, When my SLI son was born, he was wrapped in a blanket and handed to me and he was calm, just looking around, taking it all in. Not crying, zero drama. Clint Eastwood at age two minutes. He hasn't changed a bit since then.

My sister is IEE, it’s a pity she’s already married to her semi-dual and otherwise too old for him 😝

But yes, I hope one day to have children and type them so I can give guidance on how to spot their duals!

[whodat]

I think Socionic type can be evident in as early as elementary aged children. But definitely at least by puberty. There are certain glances and nuances specific to types. If you know what to look for you can identify accurately. I know two EIE women, one is 24 the other is 55 and they move and gesture and glance in a certain way that EIEs do despite the vast difference in age and maturity.

would you describe it?

[Rebelondeck]

I think Socionic type can be evident in as early as elementary aged children. But definitely at least by puberty................

One may have a dominant information processing structure very early in life (perhaps at birth) but I doubt that it's stable; instability creates errors in prediction. It's the instability that makes type determination difficult even though the primary structure may be fixed. One would have to have very unique skills to be able to divine the correct type of a pubescent teen with low impulse control. @Adam Strange, with regard to your son, hindsight is 20/20. There are many people on this site who, with all the tools at hand, still doubt what type they are, so imagine, having to correctly predict the type of another individual so as to determine duality - what are the odds?

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

One may have a dominant information processing structure very early in life (perhaps at birth) but I doubt that it's stable; instability creates errors in prediction. It's the instability that makes type determination difficult even though the primary structure may be fixed. One would have to have very unique skills to be able to divine the correct type of a pubescent teen with low impulse control. @Adam Strange, with regard to your son, hindsight is 20/20. There are many people on this site who, with all the tools at hand, still doubt what type they are, so imagine, having to correctly predict the type of another individual so as to determine duality - what are the odds?

a.k.a. I/O

@Rebelondeck, I wasn’t seriously proposing that I could divine my son’s type at birth. What I do think, though, is that he fell into the calm and phlegmatic personally spectrum, rather than being a “screamer”.

I have an unsupported belief that kids fall into one or the other of the two categories, and basically don’t change as they get older.

[Rebelondeck]

....I have an unsupported belief that kids fall into one or the other of the two categories, and basically don’t change as they get older.

I remember when I was around thirty being told by those who knew me in youth that I had changed drastically, and I certainly view things much differently now than when I was thirty. My core structure hasn't changed but everything around it has - life will do that. When I accepted my LIIness later in my career, it became much easier to recognize me as a LII; such acceptance is very difficult at 18......

a.k.a. I/O

[Prince Andrei]

I remember when I was around thirty being told by those who knew me in youth that I had changed drastically, and I certainly view things much differently now than when I was thirty. My core structure hasn't changed but everything around it has - life will do that. When I accepted my LIIness later in my career, it became much easier to recognize me as a LII; such acceptance is very difficult at 18......

a.k.a. I/O

I think your view is peculiar to all LIIs in terms of what ‘change’ means. An LII I know thinks he’s a completely different person than he was 20 years ago simply on the basis that at a cellular level it’s true. Every cell alive in his body 20 years ago is now dead and has been replaced perhaps numerous times. And as a result he’s not necessarily the same person.

Of course there is something in life to be learned and better perspective comes with time but this doesn’t change your socionic way of thinking if you subscribe to socionics. It’s not a case of changing your acceptance of LII but recognising it better as you get more perspective in life and get better at fine comparison between people. It always strikes me how obtuse most people are to real differences between the way people think. What a poor substitute all the different hair dyes and tattoos are for real diversity. Understanding socionics is a systemised way to discovering real diversity but it really is only the beginning and not the end.