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Thread: Please help me find my type!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    bad stereotype, good stereotype
    the only important is who has a gun
    // not evil betas

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Yes, I am. We have come full circle now.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    That has no bearing on whether you are SiFe ego block. It's also common for 9w1s to play down their strengths. I know a sp/sx 9w1 guy who plays great pool (for fun, he's not a gambler) but will never give himself credit...swears that he stinks.

    This reasoning is to generic and superficial for NiFe cognition.

    The way you process information shows a clear aversion to abstraction (Si-lead)
    I might be SEI, ok. The thing is, I am not playing down my strenghts at all. I have absolutelly a terrible memory for facts. My father and my mother seem to have Si, and they remember things in details, and I am very jealous of them. I feel extremelly bad for that, it is very painful not being able to have a decent conversation with sensors because I don't have anything to say. I can do abstration indeed, and that's the only kind of conversation that I have in real life with my sister, she's the only one we discuss philosophy, mathematics, astronomy, physics, and stuff. But I am very humble and have learned to make simple statements to be understood. Some people have said that my speech is gloomy, and hard to grasp, because I couldn't speak in concrete terms in the past.
    Also, I wasn't trying to prove that I'm not Si base, it was just a silly example that came to my mind at the moment. My English is bad, so the only kind of information thatI can't process actually is those with "robusque" vocabulary. I am indeed very good in abstraction, and I have a bad visual memory also.

    If I'm SEI, so it is very sad for me, because I may be very retarted, who didn't learn to fit society who doesn't understand why everybody around is so silly worrying about meaningless material things. I try to appear ok. SEIs seem too down to earth and normal.

    But I may just be an awesome SEI guy who plays down his abilities.
    Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-01-2019 at 10:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    .
    What are the real strengths of Si-base people? Can you give some examples?
    Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-01-2019 at 09:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    I'm not just someone...I'm the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
    I'm sorry, but your reputation doesn't convince me. You gave an objective hint in saying that I avoid abstraction though.

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    Introverted sensing is focused on the subjective impression the stimulus or object gives. When a Si-user sees an object or gets a sensation from the outer world, he absorbs an impression of it, a subjective recollection, memory, or symbol of the object. Carl Jung said of Si that it is “guided by the intensity of the subjective sensation excited by the objective stimulus, but one that is apparently quite unpredictable and arbitrary. What will make an impression and what will not can never be seen in advance, and from the outside.”



    It’s important to note that introverted sensing is not solely tied to past events. It also sees how the object or sensation can be used in the future. As Carl Jung said, “We could say that introverted sensation transmits an image which does not so much reproduce the object as spread over it the patina of age-old subjective experience and the shimmer of events still unborn. The bare sense impression develops in depth, reaching into the past and future, while extraverted sensation seizes on the momentary existence of things open to the light of day.”


    Don't relate

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    I would appreciate being ISFp, since they are supposed to form stable relationships. But I need to match the theory with practice, and it's been hard to believe I am good at Si (and thus Se).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    I might be SEI, ok. The thing is, I am not playing down my strenghts at all. I have absolutelly a terrible memory for facts. My father and my mother seem to have Si, and they remember things in details, and I am very jealous of them. I feel extremelly bad for that, it is very painful not being able to have a decent conversation with sensors because I don't have anything to say. I can do abstration indeed, and that's the only kind of conversation that I have in real life with my sister, she's the only one we discuss philosophy, mathematics, astronomy, physics, and stuff. But I am very humble and have learned to make simple statements to be understood. Some people have said that my speech is gloomy, and hard to grasp, because I couldn't speak in concrete terms in the past.
    Also, I wasn't trying to prove that I'm not Si base, it was just a silly example that came to my mind at the moment. My English is bad, so the only kind of information thatI can't process actually is those with "robusque" vocabulary. I am indeed very good in abstraction, and I have a bad visual memory also.

    If I'm SEI, so it is very sad for me, because I may be very retarted, who didn't learn to fit society who doesn't understand why everybody around is so silly worrying about meaningless material things. I try to appear ok. SEIs seem too down to earth and normal.

    But I may just be an awesome SEI guy who plays down his abilities.
    Maybe some clarification would help. Firstly, "abstraction" being the domain of intuition is only true in certain senses; don't consider it too much. SEIs are indeed a very 'abstract' type, and tend to have a robust inner world and profound feelings about various subjects -- (to be clear, I mean "feeling" in the general sense of the word, not necessarily in the sense that Socionics uses the term). The difference is that ISFps often spend time contemplating themselves, their emotions, their impressions of other people, and so on, getting a grasp on where they stand, where Fi-bases quickly know "where they stand" on various topics, and don't need to "find themselves". They won't spend hours a day wondering what about them seems different from others; they're typically more aware (either instinctually or through experience) of their individuality, and care to an extent less about it (or even take pride in it, INFjs especially). Fi bases also tend to think about concepts that don't directly relate to their own selves; they're just not wired that way, and too much contemplation of "why am I the way I am" will begin to bore them.

    On the other hand, Fi types (as all introverted types) also have a deep "inner world", which is just as emotional as ISFPs'. Their main perceptive functions are just extraverted, and their interest flows from the inside outward, rather than circling inward.

    I'll increment the SEI typing people seem to have of you. Your thoughts remind me of my SEI girlfriend's.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 05-02-2019 at 03:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Your thoughts remind me of my SEI girlfriend's.
    Well, technically SEI and IEI are look-alike, so I guess it's not very easy to distinguish between them at first

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    Why do you relate to Ni? Could you give examples or descriptions of Ni that makes you feel related?

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Why do you relate to Ni? Could you give examples or descriptions of Ni that makes you feel related?
    I don't understand Ni very well yet. If I'm ISFp then I have role Ni, and that is easy to mix for the lead function. I tend to think a lot about the past and the future, and I use evidence in the present to predict how my life will be in X years. I have always had a long term ideia of how my life would develop and I tend to act accordingly. But again, it could be Ni Role, and my argumentation is that I am indeed conscious that I have poor Si, not the other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Yes, I am. We have come full circle now.
    people are not single signed. they are good and evil, depending from the view
    a hate is emotion of destruction. destruction frees space for new. that new can be better and mostly is supposed such

    it's only emotions and views
    the main aim of the life is to continue further. anything is for this

    a problem with a hate - it prevents the love. with more love people feel happier. not worse results mb achieved without negative emotions as hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    people are not single signed. they are good and evil, depending from the view
    a hate is emotion of destruction. destruction frees space for new. that new can be better and mostly is supposed such

    it's only emotions and views
    the main aim of the life is to continue further. anything is for this

    a problem with a hate - it prevents the love. with more love people feel happier. not worse results mb achieved without negative emotions as hate
    I absolutely agree with you btw, hate only prevents love. I've seen examples of where some users have nothing but hatred in their statements, full paced backbiting, having negative assumptions about people and then you have other people claiming they're idealistic who do absolutely nothing about it. Thankfully you spoke out. Everyone should have 0 hate in their heart, I mean 0. It's illogical to hate.

    Why people think it's cool or good to negatively assume things about someone else I'll never understand.

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    Simple rules, morals and ideals that people must follow in order for a more ideal and peaceful world but they choose not to, I bet you anything most people choose to deny what I said, they think it won't apply to them but it absolutely does, we've all made those mistakes in our lives and we should all try to remove those mistakes piece by piece. I really appreciate your comment @Sol
    Last edited by Breather; 05-02-2019 at 02:33 PM.

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    what about ILI? Linguistics, programming and stuff of that nature seems well fitting to a profile...
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    Sincerely yours,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    What are the real strengths of Si-base people? Can you give some examples?
    I only have my cousin (SEI) and my sister (ESE) as examples that I have known well their whole lives. I have written my perception of them both on the forum before. If I find anything I think might be useful to you I will link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    people are not single signed. they are good and evil, depending from the view
    a hate is emotion of destruction. destruction frees space for new. that new can be better and mostly is supposed such

    it's only emotions and views
    the main aim of the life is to continue further. anything is for this

    a problem with a hate - it prevents the love. with more love people feel happier. not worse results mb achieved without negative emotions as hate
    Beautiful sentiments.

    Don't worry sol, I am capable of understanding that being categorized as a certain type or in a certain quadra does not make someone good or evil by default. My response was part of the actual lyrics of the song you posted to me and by full circle I meant back to the first post you made about (not) evil betas.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    He's a dead-ringer for SEI-Fe....his aversion to abstraction tells all (si > ni).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    He's a dead-ringer for SEI-Fe. That's all there is to it.
    Your textbook only it seems. I am yet to find a SEI description that fits me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    Your textbook only it seems. I am yet to find a SEI description that fits me.
    He is talking about his VI template not type descriptions.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    He is talking about his VI template not type descriptions.
    Ah ok then

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    his aversion to abstraction tells all (si > ni).
    You have a clear aversion to formal logic

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    megatrop's aversion to abstraction is crystal clear from the superficial and generic nature of both his reasoning and self-exposition... in turn, information requiring abstraction he keeps farming out to the board for answers.

    this is now what...the fourth or fifth thread. Obvious Si > Ni and it doesn't take an expert like myself to see.

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    I think you're Si lead..

    I could be wrong but my gut says Si for you based on your avatar.

    You also seem to be wanting Ti in your posts to help you determine type.

    Again I could be wrong but that is my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    megatrop's aversion to abstraction is crystal clear from the superficial and generic nature of both his reasoning and self-exposition... in turn, information requiring abstraction he keeps farming out to the board for answers.

    this is now what...the fourth or fifth thread. Obvious Si > Ni and it doesn't take an expert like myself to see.

    Here speaking the supposed SLE-Ti, expert at abstraction .

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    Look no further than the generic and superficial nature of his self-exposition from his prior posts:

    Do you feel like laughing or mockering someone who requests information concerning your strong unvalued functions?
    I don't know if it relates to this, but sometimes I can't help but laugh. I mean, I'm not looking down on them or anything, I just feel an uncontrolable urge to laugh, and I keep talking and laughing and some may interpret this as being mean and sarcastic, and I feel bad for it, because I'm being honest in what I'm saying.
    With same sex I have noticed an offended, aggressive (unconscious) look, sometimes with strong body language indicating aggressiveness - There was even one guy that seemed like he was possessed by a demon when I was talking to him. They tried to hide, but my Fe was good enough to notice their feelings. With the opposite sex it always resulted in some attraction or admiration look. So I realized that it is better to be humble around those guys (even if they seem superior in some aspect), and direct my strong side to women only. My sister even said that she would be in love with me if I weren't her brother, after me behaving like that for some time with her.There was even one girl that flirted with me in front of her boyfriend (We were having dinner at the same table, and he looked at her bottom up while she was flirting). I got the same good response from every girl, and a bad response for let's say 1/4 of men. Have you guys had any similar experience?
    Megatrop's baseline cognition shows only a grade school capacity for intuitive alteration. His interpretations are generic (he is more competent in the sensual realms of reality and seeks to connect with others through sensual experience). Obvious cognition for information that’s been collected through his five senses and totally cut off from inner knowing, leaving him with only generic impressions of the information he takes in and little capacity for abstraction. Thus, his grasp for context remains conventional and superficial. As an example, his impression that the guy “seemed like he was possessed by a demon” does not qualifty as Ni-inner knowing/abstraction/shining an original light on reality but is merely a cookie-cutter impression. Ni-lead grasps/articulates facts of reality in an unconventional/advanced level context through its hunger to purge out meanings, patterns, archetypes from the depths of a rich, highly nuanced inner world. Reasoning/interpretations/realizations by Megatrop, in contrast, are dull, simplistic and conventional...

    Ni-lead for this guy is a total joke but, alas, I've seen crazier mistypings. At least he got his creative function right.

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    @Megatrop, your self-typing is probably correct. Your facial expression reminds me of Colin Farell (IEI-Fe).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    I'm not just someone...I'm the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

    Only in the imaginary zoo of your feeble mind...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    He is talking about his VI template not type descriptions.
    Are you endorsing his VI template?
    Last edited by roger557; 05-02-2019 at 04:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    megatrop's aversion to abstraction is crystal clear from the superficial and generic nature of both his reasoning and self-exposition... in turn, information requiring abstraction he keeps farming out to the board for answers.

    this is now what...the fourth or fifth thread. Obvious Si > Ni and it doesn't take an expert like myself to see.
    So basically you're basing your argument on the fact that I tend to use superficial information as an obvious premise of avoidance of abstraction, implying me being an introverted sensor. VI and phraseology identification are much more related to that. I will give you deep examples for why I think I'm not a sensor:
    -I can't recollect past sensory memories, and I can't differenciate between different objects that are presented to me, if they have been slightly changed.
    -Sometimes I feel disconnect to the matter, and it feels that I'm floating in space
    -I can't process too much visual information, and I need more time than usual to differentiate between objects drawn in a scheme
    -I have extreme difficulty dealing with experimental physics.
    -I can't play soccer when there's more than 4 people per team, because I can't process visual information fast enough to differentiate the objects (people) on the move (and I am very skilled because I have played a lot in the past)
    - I have no idea of the effects that food give to my body.
    -I so distracted that often get frightened by loud sudden sounds that surround me (like an explosion or someone's voice), and people make fun of me because of that
    -I don't feel pleasure from physical activity (at least not as much as compared to my relatives)
    -I don't enjoy visiting natural places (it has a lot of sensory input)
    -I can't differentiate most smells of perfums that are presented to me by other people
    -I don't care about my appearance compared to most people
    -I could easily sleep on the ground if I am tired. For me a bed is useless
    -I have eaten spoiled food many times, and have got sick because of it.
    Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-02-2019 at 05:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    Are you endorsing his VI template?
    Of course not. He compared a childhood pic of mine to some psychopath. I just know what he considers valid.

    My suggestion for megatrop to consider SEI is independent of K4's reasons.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Look no further than the generic and superficial nature of his self-exposition from his prior posts:





    Megatrop's baseline cognition shows only a grade school capacity for intuitive alteration. His interpretations are generic (he is more competent in the sensual realms of reality and seeks to connect with others through sensual experience). Obvious cognition for information that’s been collected through his five senses and totally cut off from inner knowing, leaving him with only generic impressions of the information he takes in and little capacity for abstraction. Thus, his grasp for context remains conventional and superficial. As an example, his impression that the guy “seemed like he was possessed by a demon” does not qualifty as Ni-inner knowing/abstraction/shining an original light on reality but is merely a cookie-cutter impression. Ni-lead grasps/articulates facts of reality in an unconventional/advanced level context through its hunger to purge out meanings, patterns, archetypes from the depths of a rich, highly nuanced inner world. Reasoning/interpretations/realizations by Megatrop, in contrast, are dull, simplistic and conventional...

    Ni-lead for this guy is a total joke but, alas, I've seen crazier mistypings. At least he got his creative function right.
    You're confusing my simple English with poor abstraction abilities. I was awarded twice for my writting skills in school. Also, when I write on this forum I want fast responses and I care more about productive discussions about similar experience with other people than self expression. I can give you poetry if you want
    Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-02-2019 at 05:24 PM.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    So basically you're basing your argument on the fact that I tend to use superficial information as an obvious premise of avoidance of abstraction, implying me being an introverted sensor. VI and phraseology identification are much more related to that. I will give you deep examples for why I think I'm not a sensor:
    -I can't recollect past sensory memories, and I can't differenciate between different objects that are presented to me, if they have been slightly changed.
    -Sometimes I feel disconnect to the matter, and it feels that I'm floating in space
    -I can't process too much visual information, and I need more time than usual to differentiate between objects drawn in a scheme
    -I have extreme difficulty dealing with experimental physics.
    -I can't play soccer when there's more than 4 people per team, because I can't process visual information fast enough to differentiate the objects (people) on the move (and I am very skilled because I have played a lot in the past)
    - I have no idea of the effects that food give to my body.
    -I so distracted that often get frighted by loud sudden sounds that surround me (like an explosion or someone's voice), and people make fun of me because of that
    -I don't feel pleasure from physical activity (at least not as much as compared to my relatives)
    -I don't enjoy visiting natural places (it has a lot of sensory input)
    -I can't differentiate most smells of perfums that are presented to me by other people
    -I don't care about my appearance compared to most people
    -I could easily sleep on the ground if I am tired. For me a bed is useless
    -I have eaten spoiled food many times, and have got sick because of it.
    Some of this sounds like -1D Si than 2D (IEI) when you put it this way, according to some socionists takes on theory.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Some of this sounds like -1D Si than 2D (IEI) when you put it this way, according to some socionists takes on theory.
    That's one of the reasons I considered myself IEE and ENFj n the past. And the IEE hypothesis seems to work in practice, but I don't think I'm IEE anymore, because I lack in most of the descriptions of IEEs, compared to IEI
    Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-02-2019 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatrop View Post
    That's one of the reasons I considered myself Si-seeking in the past. And it works in practice, but I don't think I'm IEE anymore, because I lack most of the features of IEEs, compared to IEI
    What do you mean by features? Physical features?

    I also don't mean to sound rude but this is something I have seen homeless and depressed people of different types do. :/

    -I don't care about my appearance compared to most people
    -I could easily sleep on the ground if I am tired. For me a bed is useless
    -I have eaten spoiled food many times, and have got sick because of it.

    I don't have a strong opinion on your type but due to your admitted simple English skills I think it is a good idea to keep reading. I do see Fe more than anything else in your posts. I just wouldn't call it your lead function.

    I also want to answer the question you asked me but deleted since I still had that window open. This post is what I mean when I mentioned an abstract Si quality to you.

    With same sex I have noticed an offended, aggressive (unconscious) look, sometimes with strong body language indicating aggressiveness - There was even one guy that seemed like he was possessed by a demon when I was talking to him. They tried to hide, but my Fe was good enough to notice their feelings. With the opposite sex it always resulted in some attraction or admiration look. So I realized that it is better to be humble around those guys (even if they seem superior in some aspect), and direct my strong side to women only. My sister even said that she would be in love with me if I weren't her brother, after me behaving like that for some time with her.There was even one girl that flirted with me in front of her boyfriend (We were having dinner at the same table, and he looked at her bottom up while she was flirting). I got the same good response from every girl, and a bad response for let's say 1/4 of men. Have you guys had any similar experience?



    I was not sure what you were attempting to get across exactly when you made it. It just made me think of Si/Fe Could you elaborate on this?
    Last edited by Aylen; 05-02-2019 at 05:50 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    What do you mean by features? Physical features?

    I also don't mean to sound rude but this is something I have seen homeless and depressed people of different types do. :/



    I don't have a strong opinion on your type but due to your admitted simple English skills I think it is a good idea to keep reading. I do see Fe more than anything else in your posts. I just wouldn't call it your lead function.

    I also want to answer the question you asked me but deleted since I still had that window open. This post is what I mean when I mentioned an abstract Si quality to you.



    I was not sure what you were attempting to get across exactly when you made it. It just made me think of Si/Fe Could you elaborate on this?
    By features I meant "behaviour characteristics"

    Concerning that depressed stuff, I was more like this when I was a kid. Now I have learned to recognize spoiled food and I always sleep in bed, except last year when I went to a hospital because I had a psicosis, and people put me on bed.


    About the "Si article", I am refering to the experiences that I had when talking differently with people (it had nothing to do with my body). I was always coming up with new ideias and giving people information I was confident about. Because I had realized when I was playing the keyboard some patterns to my emotional response. So I applied this to generate emotions in other people. It tourned out that for girls, they either flirted or showed admiration, but for the guys I noticed a harsh response, some guys seemed very offended by my behaviour, and there were two guys that made an aggressive body language torwards me, as if they were trying to fight with me or harm me. So I got scared, and stopped doing that with men. After some time I eventually stopped doing that with girls too.
    Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-02-2019 at 07:04 PM.

  38. #118
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    Here is something to consider about the dichotomies in socionics.


    Review of Definitions and Confusions

    In this section, we will be discussing several definitions of intuitive-sensing dichotomy encountered in literature.

    "Intuition – an abstract perception of the world in manner of holistic images and pictures of fantasy" [4, p 186.].
    "Sensing – a function of concrete perception of the world through the senses" [4, p 187.].

    According to this definition, it turns out that intuitive types are either born with "underdeveloped" senses, or don't know how to use them. Both interpretations explicitly discriminate against people of intuitive types, especially considering their purely "abstract perception of the world" and irresistible tendency to draw "pictures in their fantasy". From these definitions it appears that an intuitive type – is a person who receives weak or distorted signals from their senses (he poorly sees, hears, smells, touches), and, in addition to that, he further obscures his perception of the surrounding world by continuous groundless fantasizing. So here it turns out that an intuitive type – is a disabled person, from a physical as well as from a mental point of view.

    "Sensing type – perceives the world concretely, living in the "here and now", values comfort, knows how to create it, gravitates to practical activities, prefers getting results from his work in a material form.

    Intuitive type – is characterized by a holistic perception of reality, a dreamer and a romantic, an experimenter and a generator of many ideas that are sometimes impracticable. At times he is scattered, and prefers uncertain opportunities to real benefits." [5, p. 57]

    With this definition it turns out that about half of humanity "doesn't value comfort". Of course it isn't like this. Intuitive types are people same as sensing types, and also love to enjoy comfort – in the acceptable to each manner. Moreover, frequently enough one encounters people of sensing types who lead a spartan way of life, who love difficult treks and hikes, and other "testing" experiences. They tend to think that the traditional "bourgeois", "European comfort" is for people who are too weak and tender.

    Further, it is unclear why intuitive types generate unfeasible ideas? What is the inexhaustible source of their "idiocy"? It would have made more sense to say that intuitive types, by virtue of their natural orientation at the control of time parameters, tend to generate ideas for the future, that are intended for realization after a certain period of time. However, this is also not the case, as the ideas of intuitive types are often oriented at the present situation, for example, in many companies people of intuitive types work successfully in marketing (and as managers in other specializations). TIMs LIE, IEE, IEI can instantly provide a number of solutions to a difficult situation. Without their ideas and methods some modern businesses and companies would struggle to succeed.

    Finally, who is this person who prefers "vague, unpredictable possibilities" to "real concrete benefits"? Are there people who voluntarily refuse real rewards and income? Such people are very hard to find, both among sensing types and among intuitive types. Even the most "hopeless" intuitive type is not going to give up the real benefit that (with varying degrees of probability) is coming into his hands. Another matter that the potential and possibilities of future benefits are usually of interest to him, and he is always ready to consider or discuss his financial plans or hopes at least. But this doesn't prevent the intuitive type from earning money in the present. It should be noted, however, that intuitive types, by virtue of their fundamental orientation at time, are more patient with waiting to receive their rewards than sensing types. Intuitive types are more strategic in this sense, ready to wait until they recoup their expenses and until measures initiated by them become actualized.

    "In accordance with the direction of their activities - practical and theoretical - people can be distinguished by their belonging to one of the other pole of the scale "sensing - intuition."

    Sensing types - are people of concrete sensations. They have well-developed spatial orientation, thanks to well-developed senses (sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch). Sensing types are very practical. They can't do without physical activity and movement, and are able to do many things with their own hands. They are very attentive to their appearance, health, comfort, and nutrition. Motivated primarily by material incentives. If you act more than you think and meditate, you are a sensing type.

    " ... Intuitive types - are people of imagination and fantasy. They live not in the present day as by the future prospects. They lack in practical sense and groundedness, and are more interested in abstract problems than the actual state of affairs. They are often motivated by interesting engagements and extraordinary people than material gains and immediate rewards. Often, they don't pay enough attention to their health and appearance. If you think more than you act, you are an intuitive type "[3, p. 20].

    This definition is quite biased in our view. First of all, people of intuitive types are able to experience "concrete sensations" and process information that comes from their senses just as well as people of sensing types. Next, spatial orientation (for example, in a city) is functionally dependent on an entire set of factors: on sensing of the surrounding space ("near / far" and so forth) - Se, on ability to orient by maps and schematic drawings - Ti, on ability to create representations of an area based on visual impressions and maps - Ne, and so on. It is also notable that representatives of very different types complain about their "topographical cretinism", including TIMs ESE, SEE, SLI, while people of other types are able to successfully navigate an area not having any sensing aspects in their ego block.

    Further, according to this description, it turns out that intuitive types "can do without physical activity" and are not very attentive to their appearance and their health. So, their own health is of no interest to them? Physical activity and sports attract intuitive types no less than sensing types: for intuitive types this is an area of self-development and a great opportunity to keep fit. Among professional athletes in "non-combat" sports intuitive TIMs EIE, LIE, ILE, IEI, and LII are often encountered.

    Finally, the "dichotomy" "thinking / action" seems inaccurate. A question arises: is it possible, in principle, to only think or to only act? Certainly not. From this follows that any individual has a specific (innate) balance of thought to activity. The period of reflection makes it possible to act effectively; the period of action necessitates further reflection. Is it needed to calculate how much time is necessary for acting and for thinking? Obviously, this would be meaningless. This definition implies that sensing types tend to act without thinking, and intuitive types - are simply slackers, spectators, and couch potatoes, plunged headlong into a barren thought process. Does this peculiar distinction relate to socionics traits? No, not in the slightest.


    Our definition

    Intuition – the predominant attitude of mind oriented at perception and processing of information about objects in time.
    Sensing – the predominant attitude of mind oriented at perception and processing of information about objects in space.

    Therefore, this dichotomy defines the orientation of consciousness, its approach to assessing phenomena. Approach of sensing types: the phenomenona fundamentally do not change and will remain as they are now, that is, the time factor is ignored (fully or partially). Approach of intuitive types is that the phenomena are constantly changing under the influence of various factors, and mainly under the influence of time itself; thus, for intuitives the world around them seems unstable, "unreliable". Neither of these approaches can be considered to be more successful than the other – they simply have different spheres of application: sensing type approach to reality is intended for management of space and its characteristics, while the intuitive type approach is intended for management of phenomena in time. There is no competition here.

    This dichotomy is sufficiently accurately described by terms "tactics" and "strategy", where "tactics" denotes the priority of dealing with immediate problems and "strategy" denotes assessment of potential and possibilities of current situation, and constant correlation of the current moment with outlook for the future. A more detailed analysis of the topic "tactics / strategy" is presented in article [7]. Here, we will provide only one quotation from Ausra Augustinavichiute:

    "They (intuitive types) are distinguished by strategic abilities and much calmness and sobriety in relation to all that is happening, but at the same by slowness. Sensing types are distinguished by tactical abilities: quick decision-making, tempo, and rhythm of life, and busyness" [1, str.236].

    If we consider the given dichotomy primitively, then the following example would be characteristic. A certain "typical" sensor has quarreled with some "typical" intuitive. It came to use of physical force, and the sensor won. The sensor is inclined to think in this situation that his opponent is defeated forever, and that if a similar situation repeats he will easy win again. The intuitive will make very different conclusions: he might take up sports or self-defense classes, and when the conflict happens again his opponent can quite unexpectedly encounter fierce resistance. Conclusion: If we consider the situation from the perspective of "here and now", the winner usually the sensing type; if we take into account perspectives and opportunities provided by time, the victory may be on the side of the intuitive type. The sensing type is not inclined to consider that someone or something that can seriously change: one who was weak, in his opinion, will remain weak forever.

    A classic example from history that illustrates the dichotomy of intuition-sensing was the war of 1812. A sensing type Napoleon Bonaparte, having seized large tracts of territory of opponent state and occupied its capital, was sure that he has won, but the time factor worked against him, and the victory eventually went to Mikhail Kutuzov (Ni,Te), who objectively assessed the dynamics of what is happening and the possible further developments of the military-strategic situation.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...hov_and_Tsypin
    Last edited by Aylen; 05-02-2019 at 06:16 PM. Reason: formatting

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Tsypin <3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post

    According to this definition, it turns out that intuitive types are either born with "underdeveloped" senses, or don't know how to use them. Both interpretations explicitly discriminate against people of intuitive types, especially considering their purely "abstract perception of the world" and irresistible tendency to draw "pictures in their fantasy". From these definitions it appears that an intuitive type – is a person who receives weak or distorted signals from their senses (he poorly sees, hears, smells, touches), and, in addition to that, he further obscures his perception of the surrounding world by continuous groundless fantasizing. So here it turns out that an intuitive type – is a disabled person, from a physical as well as from a mental point of view.
    OMG this is so wrong

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