Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz
These two contradict kinda. The first one implies that the nature is something apart from man. But this is just me being a smartass.
Man made structures are just our ant hills. But intelligence and "civilization" comes with diversity and sense of superiority, especially when given our culture's Christian-based sense of superiority over nature.
Last edited by Aquagraph; 04-13-2012 at 01:05 AM.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
The thing is, people ARE against nature, because we are part of nature, and nature is constantly self-winnowing to improve itself, just like we are.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Well I can see how you would think that but that is kind of the point.... It annoys me when people make things about man versus nature instead of attempting to intellectually integrate the two concepts and seeing them as one and being able to appreciate them both without it having to be a conflict between the two.
It's precisely the contradiction you are pointing out that annoys me.
Vancouver, WA is the ugliest of the larger cities I have ever seen. It is the true asphalt jungle. Seattle is the most phallic city I have ever seen. Portland ..is unique lol. Portland has some of the most beautiful murals ever. People love to paint ugly walls, lol.
yea but I don't see this whole process as a competition like man and technology versus nature, its a connection, at some intellectual level technology is the product of our nature and thus it is part of a natural process. To view the struggle of man versus nature as a battle which one side will fully dominate the other is stupid, because the struggle isn't about domination of one side, it's about that kind of connection you are pointing out, its about evolution and growth.
Kallio district, Helsinki looks pretty good actually... from a distance.
It has some classical-looking city buildings and I see some commercial buildings in the background, but that's alright. I prefer this rather unobtrusive choice of colours over the attention-whoring "one building is more colourful and unusual than the last". I don't like most of this post-modern stuff, either.
And as a small city boy, this house in the woods look perfect to me.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
The house in the woods reminded me of the midwest, which is where Scandis mostly migrated to.
I cannot stand inner-cities. I also hate living in the country. Ive done both. I like living somewhat on the outskirts of metros where the highways merge. I like the freedom of being able to drive on whim and from neither being city or country. People that grew up entirely in a city will malign me as a country boy and people that grew up entirely in the country will malign me as a city boy. It's really silly, lol. Why cant someone just be diverse?
Depression and suicide rates are highest in this city.
I'd kill myself, too, if I was constantly getting jizzed on.
I agree, it's not a black vs. white kind of situation; more like we are all caught up in the struggle together, sometimes allies and sometimes foes, always pushing forward.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
That balance is basically what I'd like to see. There are some places in which human habitations manage to integrate into the local wildlife without overpowering it. There's no need for this over-the-top war with the elements in most temperate regions. And if you do need your McDonald's or Walmart or whatever, at least TRY instead of just dropping a giant box somewhere.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Yea I agree, my main point was more the lens that people look at things being all about competition at the core -- it's just kind of devoid of any meaning for me.
Competition to me is more like something that just naturally arises and you deal with it rather than some grand central ideal. It's a means to an end rather than the end itself. Sometimes I feel like people have no purpose in life so they look at other people's lives with envy and try to emulate what they have and in the process of this constant wear and tear of competition they devour what was good in that other person's life but they themselves are still empty.
In principle I think this view people have of "competition" being the crown of their existence is a little cringe worthy to me. Even when it comes to the conflict of man vs environment.
Anyways when its connected to some greater principle of growth or productivity its not cringe worthy to me -- but hey what do I know?
Oprah hates your soul, Lucid. It's so much more noble than hers!
This thread reminds me of a couple things I watched on TV not long ago:
1. http://designinghealthycommunities.o...urbia-preview/
I remember there being a fair amount of time spent discussing how designs of city environments affect those who live in them with the idea that you do a lot to transform a community just by changing how it looks.A provocative new 4-hour series, "Designing Healthy Communities." Host/Narrator Richard Jackson, MD, MPH, looks at the impact our built environment has on key public health indices – obesity, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, cancer and depression. Dr. Jackson connects bad community design with burgeoning health costs, then analyzes and illustrates what citizens are doing about this urgent crisis by looking upstream for innovative solutions.
and
2. http://digital.films.com/play/DGDUWS
Although that wasn't the point, I did think that the ugliness of where these people live must have an incredibly negative impact psychologically. I mean when you look around and all you see is ruin, it's kind of hard to rear up and keep some kind of indomitable spirit to rise out of it all.
yup, me too. I'm with you on that NYC view. Maybe I'm being too optimistic or something but I can hardly see the mess. I love it. I think it's amazingly beautiful. Maybe beautiful in a sort of tragic way. But why resist what is? And some of those other buildings in this thread are beautiful too! (the ones touted as ugly)I don't think it depresses me.
I think there's beauty in that whole mess.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Well "competition" is really the perfect word to illustrate why the process is ultimate worthy of being glorified. It stems from the latin competere which translates more literally as "to strive together." Think of two knives sharpening each other, or two chess players playing games over and over to develop strategies and improve their skills. The glory of competition is not in the winning itself, but the act of establishing a winner, of elevating someone whose skill is truly worthy of being praised. The fact that someone "wins" is just social recognition as an impetus for further "competition," further self-bettering by matching one's own skills against those of another. The glory of the process lies not in that someone gets to feel good because they are the best, but that humanity is throwing its collective weight and emotional support behind someone who will do better for themselves and our community, our species. This, in my opinion, gets lost in all of the huff and fuss about BEING THE ONE who wins, and what that affords one as an individual. The good is not in winning, but that someone DOES win. In this sense the truth is the ultimate consolation prize, because where would the winners be without others to challenge the stated superiority? Only as far as curiosity would take them.
I think some people have an almost more innate understanding of this fact; whether it is real comprehension or merely an evolved attachment to the process I can't really tell, but I know that for myself I have had to arrive at this understanding in a rational way, and while I embrace competition, I know that it is because of my baser drives, which were not always colored by such a pure perspective.
The trouble comes because competition is essentially a means unto itself. We get better in order to get better. And what is the ultimate goal? To just keep on getting better? I would argue no; the bull can't run forever. Existence functions in a cyclic fashion based on all observable patterns we can isolate; there is always death fueling rebirth, and if we are to come alive again then we must die . This is, I think, the kernel of truth that exists in the idea and experience of faith, and though I also think our fates are all ultimately the same, it is undeniable to me that having a greater, truer sense of what it really is, what the real words are to describe the feelings and realizations that happen as a result of faith, is better than just sucking blindly on the teat of blissful, unwitting attachment.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I like this. t reminds me of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations: "We are made for co-operation, like feet, like hands, like eyelids, like the rows of the upper and lower teeth. To act against one another then is contrary to nature; and it is acting against one another to be vexed and to turn away."
But doesn't this sort of invented dualism make your head hurt? Nature isn't just our opponent in chess, it's the pieces we're playing with, and the game itself. On one hand, I can see how this view might be helpful. A lot of engineers and biomedical researchers I know like to see nature as throwing down a gauntlet of riddles to be solved; it takes away some of the sting of how truly clueless and helpless our race of hairless apes is. On the other hand, aren't you worried that projecting onto nature either benevolent or malevolent aspects of ourselves -- our own logic, our playfulness, our own sense of fairness... may land off the mark? Especially considering how very few few of our race truly make any effort to understand nature on its own terms, in its own language, no matter how disquieting or how alien it often turns out? Who's to say we're in competition? "War" is a language we made up. We humans are just. smart. enough. to fuck things up big time, but not quite evolved enough to forestall devastating results before it happens. This is a very lonely place to be on the evolutionary spectrum. Through our intellect, we can subvert nature just enough to make an appreciable difference. But I worry we're too selfish, too greedy, too complacent, too myopic for the next generation of environmentally-conscientious scientists, leaders, doctors, engineers, communities to be able to balance self-preservation with the naive and dangerous hubris of Genesis' "master the earth" mentality.
Of course, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, because this discussion has arrived at a level of abstraction where I'm not sure how we got from discussing ugly buildings to this, lol.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Thanks for these. I'm going to watch them soon.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Yea I completely agree with what you said in the top paragraph, I have a similar view of competition but at a basic first reaction level sometimes I dislike the process.
I think the real aspect I dislike is what I mentioned above -- how someone will strive to possess what someone else has and they will work hard for it to the point of taking it away from them and when they do and have that thing they don't really appreciate it and move on to conquering something else bored. Let's take several examples.
One -- land. Settlers come to America, a virgin landscape. They love the land so much and the opportunity it offers to the point of dominating it from the natives, when they possess the entire land, they begin developing it into a giant "shopping mall", soon they get bored with the land having fully squeezed out every last drop of the opportunity and space and they move onto another place. Sure one could say they "strive", that they "strive" together with the natives, but what are they ultimately striving towards? They are striving towards consumption of everything for their own benefit. Maybe one could argue that some kind of intellectual enlightenment will come about as a process of this striving, and sure that adds some consolation to things -- but it still doesn't make their destruction of something great any less tragic.
Example two, I'll keep this short. Some guy sees a girl and another guy together, he wants to fuck her. So let's imagine this guy is intelligent and manipulative enough to play their relationship in a way that break them apart when before they may have been genuinely happy at that given moment in their relationship. He breaks them apart, but on a false persona of being a good guy and then fucks her, gets bored with her, treats her like shit and moves onto the next relationship to break up. Once again sure one could say that they "strive" that they "strive together" all three participants but what are the ultimately striving for? Once again the other guy is just striving towards consumption for his own benefit, and once again you could argue some kind of intellectual enlightenment will come about from that process -- but still to everyone but the guy consuming everything its not any less tragic that they were played as fools.
Example three. Some community is generally happy and participants play their parts competently. An outsider comes in and sees this and begins to try to compete with others to fulfill his own role. Let's just say the role is some kind of leadership role. He's works very hard to turn sentiment against the leader so he can assume power. When he does he uses his position for his own benefit until the community collapses underneath him, at which point he proceeds on the road again to find another community to feed off of. Once again blah blah "striving" etc etc etc but its still tragic to the community.
Etc you can carry on this pattern with an infinite number of examples... but this is the sort of thing that gets under my skin. It's the kind of thing that makes me cringe at the idea of competition, without this sort of thing I would probably be 100% fine with the idea of competition, but because this sort of thing exists it makes me say competition is great, but..... and then pause a little because something doesn't seem right.
Part of me thinks that possibly this still part of the process, except this kind of competition is a different quality. There is a competition for the actual "thing" one is pursuing and a competition for one's ability to fully "appreciate" or "prosper with" that thing. People may have a distribution of ability in a more physical way of acquiring "things" but they may be devoid of a strong ability to "appreciate" the things they acquire or see value in them or to help these things prosper in some kind of symbiotic fashion. I'd like to think that this is just a process in and of itself to help those that can appreciate become physically bolder and those that are physically bold develop a deeper understanding and appreciation for the world around them.
Intellectual that seems like a nice idea, but in reality its a constant struggle. The police shooting the protestor in the face because they can just physically dominate them all they want, and the priest guilting the proud savage out of their strength and pride because they can emotionally dominate them all they want. It's just annoying to be put in that position -- people are who they are and if you are the savage or the protestor there is little you can do to help your nature, all you can do is work through it and it sucks to be confronted with your adversary.
people only really compete against themselves. a runner in the olympics isn't competing against the other players he's competing against his own frality and weakness. popular good looking jocks don't bully the fags in high school, ghetto boys who aren't all that tough themselves and think they are eminem do. and so competition isn't the same thing as cruelty, cuz one only competes against themselves. People who tried to compete against others too much always hit a brick wall because that person also has to be subjectively interested in what you are trying to compete with. or like even nerds playing a magic: the gathering tournament. They themselves just have to intellectually know all the nuances of the game, they have to know somewhat of what their opponent is doing but they are mainly checking themselves.
That isn't competition, that is brutality. In competitive games there are rules that balance/structure everything. I mean a crippled dude in a wheelchair could win a magic game. And then we have the special olympics. (lol!) When the europeans butchered the native americans that was somebody doing evil and punching the baby in the face and suffocating it just because they can. That is like instead of playing the card game in the magic tournament, a more able-bodied person ignores the rules and punches the crippled person in the face. That is more the darker side of man and isn't competition to me. That was a bunch of privileged straight men with superior weapons bullying faggy native americans that didn't have the technology. You can blow up the world with enough power. i could choose to go dark and take away from those who already have less than me. but I'd rather fight Oprah.One -- land. Settlers come to America, a virgin landscape.
What I get from your posts is that you are essentially saying you are a noble person, and you don't target/attack others because they naturally have a disadvantage. You play fair and you have honor. That is admirable. u also have a big heart and prefer cooperation over competition and I like that in people, though sometimes i kinda wanna see what I'm made of.
i think there is hope that darkness has a way of destroying the person doing it. when you hurt the nice people in the world just because you can get away with it, you also destroy the planet's caregivers and the sense of balance. i have faith that eventually, the good men will band together and take out the dark assholes who are ruining it for everybody else like that crazy osama dude. (yes I know we have evil men in our own government but i am glad he is dead.)
When people are plagued from within, and lose the connection with eachother, civilization becomes a blight on the earth. We could theoretically have civilization and live in harmony with nature, but that requires perfect inner discipline of all members in the community. If you read old testament scriptures they tended to kill people for what seems today to be minor offenses. It's because they were attempting to preserve the perfect inner discipline within the people of the community necessary in order to have civilization without the plague effect we see now. We failed in achieving that, and from that point onward the earth has been on a collision course with disaster. The total wreckage of the earth is unstoppable at this point, as the corruption has spread into everyone, and finds expression as us 'advancing civilization'...
Last edited by rat1; 04-14-2012 at 09:48 PM.
Wow, I'll take that as a huge complimentI like to think of healthy competition in the "knives sharpening each other" sense; it's obvious, and should be implicit in human interaction, that we are potential assets to one another, and we should treat one another accordingly. But I dislike that people, especially post-1990s mothers, shun the idea of competition, of there being a winner and a loser. This is a horribly safe and pathetic assumption to push a child off into the great wide world with; its only increasing the amount of trauma they will be forced to undergo once they begin to individuate and experience the world. Train them early, train them hard; no kid kills himself JUST because he comes in last one time.
What's invented about it? People compete with what they perceive as "nature;" despite being part of nature ourselves, we conceive of it also as something external to ourselves, and it is something we are trying to outdo, whether it be delaying our deaths or empowering ourselves over our environment.But doesn't this sort of invented dualism make your head hurt?
However I agree that seeing all of this as "natural" is a very healthy perspective.
Well, not only that, but it gives you a mentally tangible place in the perpetual chain of evolution towards higher life forms.Nature isn't just our opponent in chess, it's the pieces we're playing with, and the game itself. On one hand, I can see how this view might be helpful. A lot of engineers and biomedical researchers I know like to see nature as throwing down a gauntlet of riddles to be solved; it takes away some of the sting of how truly clueless and helpless our race of hairless apes is.
I agree its not proper to project human sentiments and modes of operation on to nature; however I believe we are, quite obviously, in possession of sentiments that mirror those of nature's operation; in my view we should be proud of some, ashamed of others, and aware of all of them.On the other hand, aren't you worried that projecting onto nature either benevolent or malevolent aspects of ourselves -- our own logic, our playfulness, our own sense of fairness... may land off the mark? Especially considering how very few few of our race truly make any effort to understand nature on its own terms, in its own language, no matter how disquieting or how alien it often turns out? Who's to say we're in competition?
Yes I agree. Well, "made up" is a bit biased terminology; I would prefer originated. And to take the proper scope, I wouldn't look specifically at war so much as I would the instinct it is a manifestation of: large-scale competition. What could be more evolutionarily efficient than testing to see which group of people carries superior genetic tendencies for attaining superiority and strength? It's not like strength has ZERO productive or positive comorbidities; in fact, if we take a look, it seems responsible for quite a few of our favorite, and most practical, inventions:"War" is a language we made up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_invention
http://www.lowvarates.com/va-loan-bl...ry-inventions/
Just a quick google search; I'm sure in-depth research would reveal many more important examples.
However now we have nuclear weapons, which unfortunately seem to threaten the existence of ALL humans on some level, so perhaps hubris is truly an applicable term; only time will tell.
IMO "mastering the earth" is a retarded and self-stroking sentiment; actually doing it, on the other hand, has less to do with the earth being some grand obstacle, and more to do with the idea that we are simply continually growing and improving as a species. We will need to stop, eventually, before we reach the limits of whatever abstract level of the surface-area-to-volume principle applies to our evolution as a species, whether it is on this planet or another, and so forth, but, realistically...will we? Look at us now. Obviously we will improve, but who knows what the curves look like? Who knows if we are inventing and improving fast enough to grant our species continued existence? The only thing we can be certain of is that we are running out of time.We humans are just. smart. enough. to fuck things up big time, but not quite evolved enough to forestall devastating results before it happens. This is a very lonely place to be on the evolutionary spectrum. Through our intellect, we can subvert nature just enough to make an appreciable difference. But I worry we're too selfish, too greedy, too complacent, too myopic for the next generation of environmentally-conscientious scientists, leaders, doctors, engineers, communities to be able to balance self-preservation with the naive and dangerous hubris of Genesis' "master the earth" mentality.
I think it had to do with unnaturalness.Of course, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, because this discussion has arrived at a level of abstraction where I'm not sure how we got from discussing ugly buildings to this, lol.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ah, I see. That's a much more elegant metaphor than how I'd initially interpreted it. I like the connotation of competition as a means of honing each other. That's an attitude that's gotten lost. There is a whole list of old-fashioned terms that have gone out of fashion that I think we would do well to reconsider as values: strength of character, resourcefulness, resilience, nobility, patience, conscientiousness, wisdom, hardiness, etc. These are hard-won virtues. They aren't something you're born with, but battle scars you earn in your scrapes with other people. They also aren't tied to external success or failure.Wow, I'll take that as a huge compliment
I'm not sure what happened to precipitate it, but I think we've moved away from seeing "life as process" to "life as product." Maybe it's that the commodification-mentality of the corporate world has bled into the way we regard our lives: the "meat market" dating scene, the "job market" in which we must package our lives into convenient, but static soundbytes. Whatever it is, it results in people who are very emotionally brittle: our self-concepts shatter at the slightest insult. There's a quote that I've heard get tossed around a lot: "learn to fail, or fail to learn." Instead of allowing our wounds to assume the nobility of scars, we expect never to be wounded. And that is a very fragile mindset.
You're right. I probably should have said something like: "War is a language we use to describe our own activity." When we apply that language to that which is outside our realm and very well may play by different rules, we can screw things up. But you're right that we obviously have sentiments that mirror nature, because we are part of it. And even I'm creating a dualism when I make a distinction between "our realm" and "nature." Ultimately, I'd just like to see humans express more humility and even reverence (without the religious connotations) when confronted by the very earth that sustains us, and which forged us into existence. I don't see that in warfare or industrialization or any way people talk about improvement or "human progress." What I see is myopia: we're blinded by our own contrivances, our own storylines, to the point where we miss the forest for the 2X4 that will be used in the next McMansion. And that's depressing.What's invented about it? People compete with what they perceive as "nature;" despite being part of nature ourselves, we conceive of it also as something external to ourselves, and it is something we are trying to outdo, whether it be delaying our deaths or empowering ourselves over our environment.
However I agree that seeing all of this as "natural" is a very healthy perspective.
Well, not only that, but it gives you a mentally tangible place in the perpetual chain of evolution towards higher life forms.
I agree its not proper to project human sentiments and modes of operation on to nature; however I believe we are, quite obviously, in possession of sentiments that mirror those of nature's operation; in my view we should be proud of some, ashamed of others, and aware of all of them.
Yes I agree. Well, "made up" is a bit biased terminology; I would prefer originated. And to take the proper scope, I wouldn't look specifically at war so much as I would the instinct it is a manifestation of: large-scale competition. What could be more evolutionarily efficient than testing to see which group of people carries superior genetic tendencies for attaining superiority and strength? It's not like strength has ZERO productive or positive comorbidities; in fact, if we take a look, it seems responsible for quite a few of our favorite, and most practical, inventions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_invention
http://www.lowvarates.com/va-loan-bl...ry-inventions/
Just a quick google search; I'm sure in-depth research would reveal many more important examples.
However now we have nuclear weapons, which unfortunately seem to threaten the existence of ALL humans on some level, so perhaps hubris is truly an applicable term; only time will tell.
IMO "mastering the earth" is a retarded and self-stroking sentiment; actually doing it, on the other hand, has less to do with the earth being some grand obstacle, and more to do with the idea that we are simply continually growing and improving as a species. We will need to stop, eventually, before we reach the limits of whatever abstract level of the surface-area-to-volume principle applies to our evolution as a species, whether it is on this planet or another, and so forth, but, realistically...will we? Look at us now. Obviously we will improve, but who knows what the curves look like? Who knows if we are inventing and improving fast enough to grant our species continued existence? The only thing we can be certain of is that we are running out of time.
I'm definitely not arguing against strength/force. Strength is necessary for progress. But your conception of progress, like mine, entails as much brain as brawn. The balance, up until recently, has been too far and too blindly in favor of the latter. With the way things are heading, I agree that we're running out of time. The "brain" part of the equation needs to kick in fast. But, now that I think through your metaphor to its logical end, I can see nature having the next move, and then curtailing us when we go too far. This will not happen without some wounding, some casualties. I wish we could prevent that, but it doesn't seem likely.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
No, it doesn't. But pain is the surest teacher of all.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I like what you say about life as product vs. process. I think this is largely due to a kind of collective suppressed suspicion that we are on our way to being able to live forever and potent, which results in a kind of urgency; who knows who might be saved by just an hour's worth of testing of some new drug or breakthrough in treatment for any number of illnesses or aging factors. When the goal is "in sight," the tendency would be to push towards it with all due haste.
That's a bit of speculation and extrapolation, but I think there is at least something to be said about a brand of collective urgency; where it comes from could be anyone's guess.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Sometimes I wonder do some people condense information or do they just give less. Anyways, this just turned TL;DR material for my short attention span. I would just like to add.. ooh a butterfly!
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
I blame that whippersnapper H.G. Wells.
What this thread needs is more pictures. That's what gets the "Likes." More perverse beauty:
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Here is an old panorama from Washington Park above Portland:
And here is the inside cover:
Lol you think people are afraid of aliens? Ehhh...I think it runs deeper than that. I think more people are afraid of old age and nuclear holocaust. So if we blame any artist let's make it Kubrick.I blame that whippersnapper H.G. Wells.
I've always loved disheveled scenery...I think Fight Club permanently implanted a fixation on dilapidated warehouses and abandoned mansions in my mind.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I like this kind of thing (in the picture): http://www.solarfeeds.com/top-10-gre...rends-in-2012/
I also find a lot of things generally considered ugly, beautiful.
Shame of what, asshole?Ummm... No...
Well, it's nice that you weren't, that would have meant that I had complimented that humanoid rot. I kinda first thought that he had changed his name in shame but now I really don't know where the original confusion stemmed from.
Appy-polly-logies.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I like loft spaces/buildings like this. They are good renovation projects imo, but there are some problems with living in these spaces related to air condition, poor circulation and stagnant water, but the architecture is pretty good. If it's well renovated it's pretty unique and beautiful.I blame that whippersnapper H.G. Wells.
lol, Kubrick works, too. I just meant Wells for creating science fiction and putting ideas into people's heads about what's possible.
Me too. I don't know where it came from. It wasn't Fight Club as I only saw that movie recently. (I know, I'm like ten years behind on movies most of the time, lol.)
There are a lot of empty spaces like that in Baltimore. I would love to fix one up one day.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Portland is the most crunchy granola city in America, lol. I love it.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
This is Tromsø. At the far north of Norway.Depression and suicide rates are highest in this city.
Are you Norwegian, @Kald ?
btw in the US suicide rates are highest in Alaska. That's on the far north of the United States.
In my country, Croatia, the suicide rates are highest in the Hrvatsko Zagorje region, which is pretty north as well.
Is this a rule, that the suicide rates rise as you move toward the pole end of a respective country, or a coincidence?
Last edited by Trevor; 04-17-2012 at 12:05 AM.
They're nice, my friend is living in one and I am looking to buy one. I'm not particularly interested in the hands on fixing of it but I would like to design the interior to my specs.
These usually fall under the category of hard lofts, and I've seen some that have been done very well between a level of sophistication and livability and maintaining the patina and character.
It's interesting as it's always kinda of sealing it in some sort of modern protectant used for aerospace purposes, or some such advancement.
Other things include replacing the glass with new energy efficient glass and installing insulation. The wall insulation is one of the harder things I think as these old walls were never meant for it and placing drywall/insulation against it sort of make it the same as everything else.
Very cool. It's definitely a considerable undertaking. One of my professors renovated a shuttered warehouse (a very small one) for residential use. It took almost two years because more and more problems and dangerous situations kept popping up. But the final result was incredible. He incorporated industrial elements into the design.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Shame of your self you ought to be experiencing. I don't know if it has occurred to you that you are a lonely and desperate creep.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
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