Limits of Sexual Consent

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yeah sure pedophilia comes from a twisted place. But even so I don't trust the impulse I see a lot where people largely don't really emotionally care about rapes or murders happening in the same city they live in, but some story of a pedophile in another state gets them riled up and randomly saying "pedophiles should be killed" and whatever. I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's motivated by any great love of children.

Maybe people who act that way are more likely to have kids themselves that they love and they picture their own kids being abused and "mama bear" instincts kick in or whatever. It's also how people have smeared each other 'so-and-so wants to target YOUR children!.' Whether it's true or not. Or triggers their own abuse- pedos often say really fucked up dark shit while abusing people. It prematurely robs people of their innocence & youth, and can be horrifying. If it was as simple as them wanting to sex up underage people- it would be different I think, but sadly- it is tied to the grimdarkness lol.

What I don't like in sexual abuse movements, is it's so TED talk-y and politically correct they don't talk about the horrors of it for fear of re-triggering people, but that stuff actually helps people 'get' how horrible the situation really is... because when taken too far, or you gallop too far in the other direction, it does sound like you're just this authoritative prude that wants to police all sex you yourself find 'inappropriate' and it isn't about protecting kids anymore, that's the veil.

[godslave]

Yeah sure pedophilia comes from a twisted place. But even so I don't trust the impulse I see a lot where people largely don't really emotionally care about rapes or murders happening in the same city they live in, but some story of a pedophile in another state gets them riled up and randomly saying "pedophiles should be killed" and whatever. I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's motivated by any great love of children.

I think that a similar thing happen with Serial Killers. Those are the Monsters and Ogres of our childhood. Their crimes have an almost mystical supernatural resonance which triggers our most archaic and primal fears. "Normal" crimes can be understood and rationalized, often motivated by passionate feelings or profit. However predators act on their prey instincts and we never know where and when they may be triggered. The unknown is the house of all fears.

[AWellArmedCat]

I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's motivated by any great love of children.

I don't know. I think it makes sense to me. People are always hungry for someone they can righteously hate, and I think in our modern western society pedos are one of the last groups people are allowed to truly hate carte blanche while upsetting basically no one. I do have to wonder though how conducive this is to addressing the actual issue though. I have no data on this, but I wonder if this unbridled hatred pushes some who might otherwise be open to treatment away from getting it. If society convinces someone that they are evil and truly irredeemable no matter what they do then I suspect all but the most incredibly morally steadfast of them may succumb to that view themselves and see no reason why they shouldn't lean into evil and give in to all their darker impulses

[myresearch]

The OP only makes sense if xerx is floating an idea of thought control. There's a lot of confused thinking about "consent" because liberals made it the only standard by which they would condemn or excuse sexual activity, but weren't comfortable actually taking that logic very far. This is why pedophilia and bestiality are gaining acceptance. If you have an objection to pedophilia or bestiality but have no other way to justify your objection than as a matter of "consent" you're left saying that animals or children can't "really" consent to sex, which doesn't hold water if you pursue that statement very far. Pedophiles and people into animals make the point, correctly, that it's absurd to say an animal or child can't consent to sex, or that they can't "really" do this, and then, morally justified, you get Discord moderators and French philosophers and "gender theorists" making pedophilia a civil rights movement. This confusion is shown in the OP when @xerx says "should not be able to consent to" but really means "should not be allowed by the state" -- not actually saying this because that's an ideologically uncomfortable premise.

Animals or children can't consent to sex. This is also true for retarded people.

Basically in words you can comprehend, if someone's cognitive ability is far behind than other party, then there is no such a thing as consent.

[AWellArmedCat]

Animals

We keep them in confined pens, forcibly breed them with each other, and slaughter them mercilessly in front of each other with impressive frequency. I think it's evident that humans by and large don't care about their consent

[myresearch]

We keep them in confined pens, forcibly breed them with each other, and slaughter them mercilessly in front of each other with impressive frequency. I think it's evident that humans by and large don't care about their consent

That is allowed when the purpose is to benefit from their meat, coat etc. So not the same thing.

[AWellArmedCat]

That is allowed when the purpose is to benefit from their meat, coat etc. So not the same thing.

Yes, I agree, they're not the same thing. Harvesting them for their meat/leather/etc. results in their deaths while simply fucking them doesn't. We aren't disgusted by bestiality because we care about animals. We are disgusted by it because our culture teaches us to be (most probably for hygienic reasons). I feel it's strange to pretend it's at all about consent unless you're vegan

[myresearch]

Yes, I agree, they're not the same thing. Harvesting them for their meat/leather/etc. results in their deaths while simply fucking them doesn't. We aren't disgusted by bestiality because we care about animals. We are disgusted by it because our culture teaches us to be (most probably for hygienic reasons). I feel it's strange to pretend it's at all about consent unless you're vegan

There are sometimes not always valid reasons that culture transfers some accumulated information. And at the core, I think for bestiality that reason can be hygienic or health related issues as you pointed out but besides that it is cognitive ability gap. I find that disgusting in every form.

[ouronis]

they shouldn't be able to consent for other people

[godslave]

Animals or children can't consent to sex. This is also true for retarded people.

Basically in words you can comprehend, if someone's cognitive ability is far behind than other party, then there is no such a thing as consent.

Most Mammals and Birds have their sexual rituals. They have their own codified (via phylogenetic memory (?)) courtship parades. This implies a certain form of "consentment", a natural obedience to the law of instincts.
Children consentment is an oxymoron. They are de facto odd to be considered as victims in any case of sexual acts ( including FGM/C and Circumcision ). Prepubertal children can not think themselves as sexual beings and for an adult to see them as such is symptomatic of pedophilia.

We are, as occidental society, playing with fire when we indirectly trivialise without even realizing it some ethically questionable behaviors and I will give just one example of such lack of insight : When we see on sites like Amazon stuff like "Child sex dolls" as a listed product, then we have a problem. It's not just a controversy, it's a red flag and it raises the question of the Ethical limits of the supply and demand dynamic.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't know. I think it makes sense to me. People are always hungry for someone they can righteously hate, and I think in our modern western society pedos are one of the last groups people are allowed to truly hate carte blanche while upsetting basically no one. I do have to wonder though how conducive this is to addressing the actual issue though. I have no data on this, but I wonder if this unbridled hatred pushes some who might otherwise be open to treatment away from getting it. If society convinces someone that they are evil and truly irredeemable no matter what they do then I suspect all but the most incredibly morally steadfast of them may succumb to that view themselves and see no reason why they shouldn't lean into evil and give in to all their darker impulses

Yeah helping potential pedos would help victims too- because it would stop the abuse before it started. The problem with that like you said is virtue signaling, and Te contract laws that can be warped to be too unfair and harsh. People don't want to be thought of as enabling or coddling or feeling sorry for a pedopohile- they want to be known as helping victims. But teaching potential pedos who don't want to be pedos to redirect their Jungian Shadow into other things- would be the thing that actually help children the most, instead of acting crazy after it already happened.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Tanana Burke says she wants to completely get rid of sexual abuse the world over. It sounds so noble and righteous.

I don't think she's willing to really go into the sacrifices of that would truly entail. To get rid of all sexual abuse, you could do it by completely removing all sexuality. It's all banned now. We're all asexual Delta angels. Innocent and Pure again. You're only allowed to have sex for procreation purposes - trust us it's better this way. Why should you even get to feel pleasure when so many of our souls suffer in silence? No more being gay or lesbian even if you're a good person that understands consent- sorry buddy. It's for the greater good. We have to stop sexual abusers. Oh look. That person said something a little too provocative and sexual. That's abuse. They must be taken care of.

*blinks and gets rid of them* The TED talk audience cheers and feels satisfied.

There. I just killed them for the Greater Good. I'm good and they were evil, so it's okay. Let's not just stop with sexual abuse- we can stop ALL abuse. We can make Heaven a place on earth, we just have to completely remove your Free Will and turn this world into even more of a prison to do so!!!

They are like those Avatars on Charmed lol. Or Jasmine on ANGEL.

[myresearch]

Most Mammals and Birds have their sexual rituals. They have their own codified (via phylogenetic memory (?)) courtship parades. This implies a certain form of "consentment", a natural obedience to the law of instincts.

Yeah, I meant they cannot give consent to people.

Children consentment is an oxymoron. They are de facto odd to be considered as victims in any case of sexual acts ( including FGM/C and Circumcision ). Prepubertal children can not think themselves as sexual beings and for an adult to see them as such is symptomatic of pedophilia.

Agreed.

We are, as occidental society, playing with fire when we indirectly trivialise without even realizing it some ethically questionable behaviors and I will give just one example of such lack of insight : When we see on sites like Amazon stuff like "Child sex dolls" as a listed product, then we have a problem. It's not just a controversy, it's a red flag and it raises the question of the Ethical limits of the supply and demand dynamic.

%100 Agreed. Not that there are only dolls but there are videos hence children in sex industry as well. The only good I can think about these dolls is that they can lead to their detection.

[xerx]

The OP only makes sense if xerx is floating an idea of thought control. There's a lot of confused thinking about "consent" because liberals made it the only standard by which they would condemn or excuse sexual activity, but weren't comfortable actually taking that logic very far. This is why pedophilia and bestiality are gaining acceptance. If you have an objection to pedophilia or bestiality but have no other way to justify your objection than as a matter of "consent" you're left saying that animals or children can't "really" consent to sex, which doesn't hold water if you pursue that statement very far. Pedophiles and people into animals make the point, correctly, that it's absurd to say an animal or child can't consent to sex, or that they can't "really" do this, and then, morally justified, you get Discord moderators and French philosophers and "gender theorists" making pedophilia a civil rights movement. This confusion is shown in the OP when @xerx says "should not be able to consent to" but really means "should not be allowed by the state" -- not actually saying this because that's an ideologically uncomfortable premise.

I used the word "consent" because it is part of the common vernacular. Also, I'm not a liberal.

[Nephilthoth]

If you're smart enough, you can rationalize pretty much anything to yourself.

[Metamorph]

The OP only makes sense if xerx is floating an idea of thought control. There's a lot of confused thinking about "consent" because liberals made it the only standard by which they would condemn or excuse sexual activity, but weren't comfortable actually taking that logic very far. This is why pedophilia and bestiality are gaining acceptance. If you have an objection to pedophilia or bestiality but have no other way to justify your objection than as a matter of "consent" you're left saying that animals or children can't "really" consent to sex, which doesn't hold water if you pursue that statement very far. Pedophiles and people into animals make the point, correctly, that it's absurd to say an animal or child can't consent to sex, or that they can't "really" do this, and then, morally justified, you get Discord moderators and French philosophers and "gender theorists" making pedophilia a civil rights movement. This confusion is shown in the OP when @xerx says "should not be able to consent to" but really means "should not be allowed by the state" -- not actually saying this because that's an ideologically uncomfortable premise.

I think it's non-absurd to float an idea of thought control, honestly. I think it makes more sense than saying children and animals can really consent. However, besides sex with children being horrific for children, sex with animals spreads diseases even if you don't care about the animals.

[Metamorph]

Yeah sure pedophilia comes from a twisted place. But even so I don't trust the impulse I see a lot where people largely don't really emotionally care about rapes or murders happening in the same city they live in, but some story of a pedophile in another state gets them riled up and randomly saying "pedophiles should be killed" and whatever. I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's motivated by any great love of children.

Whenever anyone freaks out about children disproportionately, they should be called a pedophile. If they care that much about children compared to others, they are clearly a lover of children, or in Greek, a pedophile.