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Thread: Which sociotypes are very straightforward?

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    Last edited by Pastel; 12-14-2017 at 08:05 AM. Reason: to add detail

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    Ej-types: 2) > 1)
    Ep-types: 1) > 2)

    Directing other people is either or
    Speaking without thinking is related to irrationalty and extraversion

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    straightforward (generally speaking what thinking) - all E types except Fi
    prone to directing others - E and S

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    Ayooo that is a pretty good question!

    Imo SLE takes the crown.

    Valued (mobilizing current moment powerfully) and (expressing directly) converge! Added logics and PoLR work without filter, not sugarcoating. Most direct impact of the socion with demonstrative creating a no-nonsense "director" (yes @Sol) approach. The Ejs can definitely be like that, too. LSE is my second choice.

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    I see the of SLE and SEE more as "enforcing" than "directing"
    To my impression: The combination of or and is commanding.

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    Thank you all for your input so far!

    But... how about very straightforward and directive intuitives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    and (expressing directly) converge! Added logics and PoLR work without filter
    weak F = hard to motivate people, to understand their needs and communications. hence people will work worse

    > Most direct impact of the socion with demonstrative

    Most impact is from ego, not 8th. Non-valued Te means limited usage of info from this region. Hence lesser reasonable actions, what is opposite to "no-nonsense". Dealing with SLE you'll notice doubtful decisions from efficency and objectivity pov.

    > The Ejs can definitely be like that, too.

    Js are better in predictable and stable environments.

    > LSE is my second choice

    LSE have issues with informal or not planed problems, especially with people (what may lead to get sabotage). We need time to think about new data, as in other case we act badly, - just create additional problems. Also LSE need higher initial level of qualification to rule by something - such to have "plans", but not study new tricks on a field. That's why you may meet like LSE study different stuff, - we need this reinsurance due to inflexibility of our intelligence. The side effects are our wide erudition and higher than average qualification in what is important for us.
    More developed LSE use F and N more intensively, - those are not "classical" LSE and they should be more effective, while having lesser reinsurance and strict planning behavior. Exept cases of higher neuroticism, - those people just overuse superego, or redundant self-conceit - due to hyperactive superid (hypotetic case of wrongly used good IR).

    P.S.
    Probably any type is optimum director for specific conditions which lay on his ego functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Dealing with SLE you'll notice doubtful decisions from efficency and objectivity pov.
    Yes, because the is paired with in the ego block, an internal judgement function. Therefore SLE prefere to decide what make sense to themselves, not what is the best choice for outcome in the environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    That's why you may meet like LSE study different stuff, - we need this reinsurance due to inflexibility of our intelligence.
    I see -mobilizing in this statement

    And I guess I have met at least one unhealty LSE in my life. I only can say "-blindspot".
    Motto:
    "When you do everything the same way, you'll always get the same result. When you don't get the same result, things weren't done the right way."
    Unsufficient awareness of changing conditions on a global level.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 10-29-2017 at 06:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pastel View Post
    Thank you all for your input so far!

    But... how about very straightforward and directive intuitives?
    Very seldom. I'd only nominate LIE but really, they are easily swept away by any .

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    The -subtypes of ILI and LIE can be straightforward, but they are also more willing to change course of action. They have a focus on a goal and steering around obstacles, but they are usually don't care about every detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pastel View Post
    Hello!

    I'm wondering which intuitive sociotypes tend to be 1) very straightforward (generally speaking without thinking) and 2) prone to directing others?
    (1) can be interpreted in different ways. If it means "without thinking of the feelings of the person you're interacting with" then it's related to weak ethics. If it means "straightforward" in the sense of being saying exactly what's on your mind without regard to others' comfort then it would be related to , , and as @Chae mentions - although in particular valued and , so I wouldn't include LSEs as being particularly direct, not nearly as much as e.g. SLEs or LIEs, or even EIEs.

    (2) is just Se.

    So SLE, LSI, LIE are probably most likely to be described in this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I see -mobilizing in this statement
    LSE may get pleasure relating to superid activity, but the practical sense is the protection from issues in weak functions. The human may don't understand this good. At least, when you may see practical sense, not just random reading about flying sources.

    > And I guess I have met at least one unhealty LSE in my life.

    To have a type = to be unhealthy, as a half of our mind functions are below social norma.

    > "When you do everything the same way, you'll always get the same result. When you don't get the same result, things weren't done the right way." Unsufficient awareness of changing conditions on a global level.

    It's mb more blind Ne, than Ni to ignore the context - the traits of current situation/object.
    Blind Ni - you get the situation, make a plan (without taking into account N feelings) and then go by this without caring how this will end. But not to do same plan any time, like the context is constant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    > And I guess I have met at least one unhealty LSE in my life.

    To have a type = to be unhealthy, as a half of our mind functions are below social norma.
    Yes, I'm aware of this that a person can not develope all functions to maximium capability.

    Ok, I have to explain a bit more in detail, but I don't intend to write a novel about my experiences.
    Basiclly I'm talking about using in a way that can be seen as below social norma.
    In a nutshell: Treating subordinates like slaves and boosting micromanaging to awesome high levels.
    Looking for shortcomings in performance of employees but there where a lot of other significant shortcomings in the management of the company. And the management was resistant to advice.

    Long story short: I left the company and it went bankrupt about five years after I left it, and that was forseeable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    > "When you do everything the same way, you'll always get the same result. When you don't get the same result, things weren't done the right way." Unsufficient awareness of changing conditions on a global level.

    It's mb more blind Ne, than Ni to ignore the context - the traits of current situation/object.
    Blind Ni - you get the situation, make a plan (without taking into account N feelings) and then go by this without caring how this will end. But not to do same plan any time, like the context is constant.
    In my opinion strong -users are better at long term planing,
    -users are better at managing several short-time projects in parallel.

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    ,, and to a lesser extent, have the strongest association with straightforwardness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of this that a person can not develope all functions to maximium capability.

    Ok, I have to explain a bit more in detail, but I don't intend to write a novel about my experiences.
    Basiclly I'm talking about using in a way that can be seen as below social norma.
    In a nutshell: Treating subordinates like slaves and boosting micromanaging to awesome high levels.
    Looking for shortcomings in performance of employees but there where a lot of other significant shortcomings in the management of the company. And the management was resistant to advice.
    Again, this is + in socionics IMO, not . LSEs value and so they are generally flexible and forgiving of mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    LSEs value and so they are generally flexible and forgiving of mistakes.
    Ok, this is the case for healthy LSE. I was talking about an unhealthy LSE(?).

    An issue might be that I type a person from my perceptions stored in my memory. Problem is that typology is made for typing healthy people, not for typing unhealthy people.
    The person I have in mind had severe problems with frustration and anger. My impression was choleric temperament.
    In any case: Very straightforward... in blaming other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Ok, this is the case for healthy LSE. I was talking about an unhealthy LSE(?).

    An issue might be that I type a person from my perceptions stored in my memory. Problem is that typology is made for typing healthy people, not for typing unhealthy people.
    The person I have in mind had severe problems with frustration and anger. My impression was choleric temperament.
    In any case: Very straightforward... in blaming other people.
    It makes no difference if they are healthy or not, what you are describing is not characteristic of LSEs. Socionics tells you not only what healthy behavior looks like, it tells that each type manifests unhealthiness in its own way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    It makes no difference if they are healthy or not, what you are describing is not characteristic of LSEs.
    Ok, I'm open to suggestions. SLE does not fit, because the person is focused that other people meet objective results and also a comfort seeker, letting other people do the (hard) work.
    I guess SLE are more willing to take physical action.

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    Te.

    Fe aren't straightforward. They still consider someone else's feelings.

    Te users, well, they're very fucking straightforward for real. Lol.

    No sensitive people allowed.

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    Imo it doesnt matter for typology wheather a person is unhealthy or not. The type is independent of that. In many unhealthy people you can actually see a pronunciation of type traits if the person is poorly adapted. In some people the superego is overdeveloped but thats all according to type.

    Difficult cases if a person is very depressed so all conscious traits blend and diappear or if the person is just not developed very much.

    Of the intuitives LIE is imo the most straight forward.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

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    Among intuitives both LIEs and ILEs can be quite straightforward. They're ExTx types after all.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    ,, and to a lesser extent, have the strongest association with straightforwardness.
    Hmm, which sociotypes would these be?? LIE, ILI, SLE and EIE??

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    Quote Originally Posted by idontgiveaf View Post
    Te.

    Fe aren't straightforward. They still consider someone else's feelings.

    Te users, well, they're very fucking straightforward for real. Lol.

    No sensitive people allowed.
    Um, which sociotypes would these (very straightforward, speaking without thinking) Te-users be? ^^

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    all st types. from the intuitives only LIE-te remains tbh

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    Any Se valuers imo, unless they're Ni dom.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Any Se valuers imo, unless they're Ni dom.
    Hi!

    Um, in this case, Se valuers would be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pastel View Post
    Hello!

    I'm wondering which intuitive sociotypes tend to be 1) very straightforward (generally speaking without thinking) and 2) prone to directing others?
    LIE-Te.

    Once in a while, with enough testosterone in their blood:
    IEE and ILE (Sx first with 8 fix version)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pastel View Post
    Hi!

    Um, in this case, Se valuers would be?
    Gamma+Beta types expect on IEI and ILI. SLE, LSI, EIE, SEE, ESI, LIE.Perhaps even ESEs can be that blunt thanks to Fe.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    all st types. from the intuitives only LIE-te remains tbh
    Yeah, and even them can usually only lead others who are of the same opinion, they are not big on enforcing.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    IMHO, not type related. Any type can be very straight-forward, and any type can be full of it. But speaking without thinking isn't a very good course of action in most cases.

    Directing others: directly giving orders: SLE, SEE, Some ILEs, Some IEEs, Some LSIs, Some LSEs, Some LIEs

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    1. Beta ST
    2. Ni Ego
    3. Gamma SF
    4. Delta ST
    5. Alpha SF
    6. Ne ego
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    The overall quadra that might be the most straightforward in a literal sense is Gamma. They are not as embellished and constructivist as Beta, don't beat around the bush as is valued with . blocked with - no time's wasted! And provides the "come on - do it! now!" factor. then also has no patience for messing around with people unless we talk about SEE-Se.

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    LIE being a Te base type along with Se HA seems to be pretty straightforward. Overall seems results oriented and factual, and Ni would make them hustle for longterm/visionary goals set by the efficient and competent Te. Put that together with weak Fi and you get a person who has no time for bs or sugarcoating.
    SLE is definitely a forceful type too, but is more dominating/expanding than straightforwardly directing, and I take it your question was more about manner of communication rather than overall power dynamics.

    When it comes to ILE, they're idea focused with Ne base and have Ti creative along with Fi polr. However they also have Fe HA which might sometimes make them inclined to charm their audience to be liked. They're also irrational, so while they could be straightforward in the sense that they've no time for playing nice when pursuing opportunities perceived by Ne, they are not as prone to being directive as an LIE.

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