Hmm, it doesn't? That's impossible. I would say your Ni-Te is Fe-Si in Socionics.Originally Posted by GemOfTroy
IEs are wonderful business.I am not interested in arguing, i am interested in understanding. If there is something i am missing i would not only like to be told that fact, I'd also like to have it explained please.
I mean. I hate to be a dick, but really if you don't like Maritsa y'all just need to let go and ignore her. She's not really going to change at all so engaging her is... Unfruitful. I don't mean like use the ignore option, I mean just accept that she's gonna say stuff you disagree with sometimes, and you really don't have to respond to it. No one says you have to respond to her. No one says you have to fight or argue.
Easy Day
Expat, hysterical and emotional. Erm.
@k0rpsy That picture somehow manages to be both ugly and cute.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
Having met with Expat in person, I can safely contradict you in saying he is definitely not an Si ego of any kind.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Let's see the lab report.
The logic is that both myself and Expat are Fe-Si via the Magic of Maritsa because she disagrees with us; or maybe we have square heads or other such hocus-pocus.
However, since we are both very clear about what we want and standards of rational proof I could happily entertain an erroneous but plausible Te-Si reading if someone didn't know the persons personal attitude in the environment which is clearer to observe in person. This then made us Maritsas duals and gave me literally minutes of laughter.
Too subtle, I get it, I should have just stated that.
o.o k
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ok...?
Basically he was physically all over the place, very scattered, a little clumsy, kind of spaced out. Couldn't remember where he parked his car, that kind of thing. My mom is an LSE, I'm used to them; Expat was definitely not one. Realistically I can only see him as LIE-Te, probably an enneagram 6w5 or 1w9, sp/sx most likely.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Interesting criteria. I get like that around new people or if I've been lacking outside stimulation for awhile. But that's it. Did he persist being that way (and is that what Enjs deal with)?
LIE-Te of the dorkier variety, 6w5 seems reasonable to me.
Oh noes, Gammas in Delta land, what are they doing here?
Do I have @mikemex on my list? No? confirmed IEE
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-11-2013 at 04:35 AM.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I met Expat in person as well and am in total agreement with this. LIE-Te it is.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
What do you base this on? Have you ever actually talked to Expat?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
No talking necessary, just watch his actions, what he does.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I think when it comes to Expat, you should listen less to Jadae and more to people who have actually had conversations with him.
Expat is not dramatic or emotional. When he doesn't like someone, he doesn't like someone and does something about it (banning, moderating, etc.). But
he doesn't throw emotional tantrums. At least I have never seen it.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
ok, now I would like you to go to the site I linked and reread Ni/Ne; where in the descriptions does it say that either are idea people?
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ni looks peers into the essence of ideas they may have, that doesn't mean coming up with ideas is intrinsic to Ni.
The reason why I type him Fe is because in conversations with other people, his emotions get in the way of his thought, represses Ti/Te and what he actually does is doesn't want to reach an understanding or a consensus with someone but rather wants to observe how the person reacts emotionally and ethically by the twists and turns of his conversations with them. This is observed with "I don't understand why you're being mean to me, would you please explain?" and he doesn't follow line of this logic, he goes on to talk about something unrelated like "your boyfriend x,y,z." Always, not with the purpose of reaching an understanding or coming to a conclusion, a settlement, consensus, but to further cat and mouse people around and that to me is "mean" "manipulative" "cunning" "sly" "unfair" and "unkind" an antithesis of what I refer to as Fi behavior once Fi has learned of the subject's emotions regarding topics. He seems to back off only when told "hey, you're hurting me." A blatant emotion, which is the only thing that he can read, otherwise, his cat and mouse game is to produce real emotions in others "look Jadae gets mad at this" "he's getting mad at this value."
Anyone can come up with ideas, they are not intrinsic to a particular type;
Ni is "something that could happen" Next year I'll go to Spain; weak ability with Ni is "I don't know what will happen in our relationship; I just don't know." Short sighteness with certain events in time, inability to picture things well from an accumulation of information available to that regard. "A fire is going to happen; I'm going to get caught cheating" Those are Ni a worry, a strike of event being foretold.
A good example of strong Ni is my mom, I didn't do my taxes on time one year because i wasn't well and she having accumulated those facts came back in a fire of frenzy and said "honey, if you don't do your taxes this this and this will happen to you." Compare that to my ESE cousin she noticed I didn't do my taxes and she said "shouldn't you do your taxes, isn't it about time you did?" Do you see the difference?
Strong Ni with my Ne because that's what I have available, I'd say "based on our compatibility we should make a really great match and we will live together and get married and have kids all in about this of time over this many months."
Ni may ponder on ideas, turning them over quietly in their mind, for long period of time; this makes Ni base types removed from people and connections a lot of the time, quiet, reflective, dreamy, internal, fairly inactive homebodies.
Ne potential spread out; take for instance is "that opportunity is great, I should take that" I think what you describe of him is Ne mobilizing. "I'm going to take this opportunity because it's a good idea." The idea already exists, the person themselves doesn't come up with it, they just utilize it. For instance when you recommend for someone to get a room mate and they find that that's a good idea, you didn't come up with that idea because you have a strong Ni/Ne, you came up with it for various reasons, maybe your life experience told you in that situation, the best action is this from having sensed it, or seen it, then the idea really came from S not N.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-11-2013 at 05:26 AM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I think you should stop using your perceptive senses and start using your intuitive potential sense, but will you? Can I make you? No I can't
SEE confirm for you.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
But i didn't talk about coming up with ideas i talked about the different ways in which Ne and Ni processed them... their journey from birth onwards. I talked about the steady semi formed flow of Ni, picking up and melding along it's course in a sure direction. I compared that to the tentacles of Ne...grabbing, clutching...multi tasking. I explained i saw more of the former and that i interpreted i saw it in abundance, hence giving weight to the idea it is a leading function. This of course is my own opinion and just like your own opinion is not fact. Just observation and information gathering which is bound to be bias to some degree or other. I base the above on my understanding of the functions in socionics thus far, i by no means have a full understanding.
I asked you for your own specific source as i wanted to be certain we were not working at cross purposes.
Maritsa i do not wish to discuss personal information about specific people in public, the things we discussed were in pm so I'd appreciate it if they could be kept there. I am more interested in discussing the idea's of what roles functions play and how they manifest in our (plr) individual (perhaps yours and my own) typing's.
To be completely honest i am having a little difficulty in distinguishing between Ti and Ni leading, both seem to be difficult for the observer to pick apart and seem to require direct communication with the subject to understand ...both seem to indicate (at least semi) reclusive often dreamy states and periods of withdrawal.
Hmmm, well... i may come back to edit this, i'm unsure how clear it is.
Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.
In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.
When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.
So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.
InvisibruJim
People try to distinguish Ti/Ni directly; but the best way to do this is not by trying to do so but trying to distinguish Ti and Te which are defined as being in opposition and do have opposing behavioural traits and Ni and Ne which have opposing behavioural traits.
Because I don't look like an IEE?
Last edited by Kim; 01-11-2013 at 02:52 PM.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
This is true; also applicable to any Pi (Ni, Si) or Ji (Ti, Fi) function-attitude (fxn). In Jungian typology any introverted fxn is considered 'subjective', meaning that the subject apprehends a given stimulus more indirectly via an interrelational context emergent between them, ergo necessitating that a person outside of it become involved w/ said context in order to understand it. Whereas extroverted fxns tend to isolate and externalize things, conveying them in a more acontextual manner rendering greater communicative accessibility to 3rd parties.
If you delve into Information Aspects (IAs), Introverted/Extroverted fxns are synonymous with Field/Object IEs respectively (functions = IEs). Wrapping my brain around IAs was the best for boosting my understanding of the inherent differences between IEs. The 3 dyads comprising the suite of 8 IEs are as follows (my interpretation of each):
Explicit (E) - Something demonstrable. Regards stimulus directly, interpreting for sensorial qualities or extant facts.
Implicit (I) - Something inferred. Regards stimulus indirectly, interpreting for conceptual qualities or affective values.
Object (O) - Perspective is directed outside the self and towards the subject's appraisal of the stimulus.
Field (F) - Perspective is drawn inside the self and concerns the subject's interrelationship with the stimulus.
Static (S) - Discerns a stimulus in terms of fixed attributes, yielding cues to establish a given context, with particular respect to their separable distinctions.
Dynamic (D) - Discerns a stimulus in terms of mutable attributes, its changes with respect to a given context, as well its synthesis and interactions.
Each of these 6 parameters would refer to how a mind tends to experience, construe, and apperceive reality—in this way, each IE can be conceived as like a filter which 'colors' reality in different qualitative shades, analogous to say, how a prism can polarize the same light source into different chroma. The 8 combinations of the 6 IAs go like this:
Se: EOS (Explicit Object Statics)
Te: EOD (Explicit Object Dynamics)
Ti: EFS (Explicit Field Statics)
Fe: IOD (Implicit Object Dynamics)
Fi: IFS (Implicit Field Statics)
Ni: IFD (Implicit Field Dynamics)
So, putting all this together, Ti (E+F+S) could be considered correspondent to something like "apperceiving phenomena in an explicative way via fixed subjective contextual frameworks"—aka, 'structural logic'. Whereas Ni (I+F+D) might be something like "apperception of emergent changes implied by evolving interrelations between phenomena"—aka, 'fluid intuition'. A key distinction between the two is going to be that Ti is more deliberately ratiocinative, while Ni is more incidental in nature and draws greatly from ambient perceptions.
I suspect much of this probably sounds like word garble right now, and there's a lot more I could say I'm sure. Ask clarifying questions if you'd like.
Now that it's confirmed I feel at rest.
I have Ne in my ego block and I can't multi task, it's unrelated. Ne has to do with perception of a quality of an item other than it's physical form. A person, for instance may be seen as physically a certain way
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Finally had the time/attention to read that and digest.
Your good.
I'm thinking that whole post was a bunch of IOS.
(did i get it? do i win a prize?)
Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.
In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.
When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.
So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.
InvisibruJim
You don't have concurrent idea's? I'm pretty sure everyone does, it's just starker with Ne...more identifiable, clearer, faster maybe and quicker to dispense. The idea's themselves though may well be abstract. Hmm, i'm thinking of a scene from a film to describe this.. i think it could be minority report...where Cruise is selecting from a board...putting things together, throwing things out scanning for connections...at speed.I have Ne in my ego block and I can't multi task, it's unrelated. Ne has to do with perception of a quality of an item other than it's physical form. A person, for instance may be seen as physically a certain way
Last edited by SyrupDeGem; 01-14-2013 at 04:53 PM.
Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.
In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.
When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.
So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.
InvisibruJim
I concur that Ne can lead to multi-tasking, especially as a lead function. Mine's creative so it's not as dominantly expressed in me but I can often find that while I work on something I can get an idea of something unrelated and how these two events do relate. I can for example watch a movie and then suddenly get an idea that I must write down or process in some way, which leads to a form of multi-tasking as I now am both watching a movie and writing down the new ideas that came into my mind.
An example of Ne and Ti would be Ogi Ogas' video about sexual desires and I would wager him an ILE-Ne in socionics. Clear MBTI ENTP as well to me:
Anyway, the point isn't so much the Ti aspect of this video but rather how Ogi Ogas clearly weaves different theories and ideas together in order to create his own logical framework, citing examples such as Twilight and *******s in (Japanese) porn, neuroscience, nuclear physics and so on in order to explain human sexual desire. Might seem convoluted at first but it's a great example of Ne (and Ti) in practice.
@Maritsa Also, to me, I don't think Ne is about seeing qualities outside of the physical properties such as "warm" or "gentle". That if anything does sound like an Si to me. At least to me, if I were in such a situation where I met another person, I would probably reason more like "I like this person because she's nice, I think I'd like to meet her again". So to me, it's less about the personal qualities based on my impressions, you can call it "blonde" or "amazing haircolor", it doesn't change the fact it's focused on the concrete reality because you are still referring to that reality. No, Ne is rather more about "Her haircolor has such wicked blonde color, imagine if we changed her hairstyle to this instead, it would look even better on her!". Ne is about the ability to see what something can become and for IEEs and EIIs that are positivists, it would be more focused on a positive outcome compared to ILEs and LIIs who are negativists, or so I wager but I honestly don't understand Ne+Ti think that well.
"You fucking disappoint me."
5w4 4w5 8w7 sp/sx INxP/EII
Maritsa's list looks great.
Thanks.
The post would primarily be some synthesis of whatever my two ego fxns happen to be, which varies relative to professed opinion.I'm thinking that whole post was a bunch of IOS.
(did i get it? do i win a prize?)
Welcome to what everyone else's brain is like, too.
Not saying others cannot experience that, but I think for an Ne type, it's probably a bit more common or strengthened which was my point. It was meant to specifically counter Maritsa's comment that she doesn't think Ne is related at all to multi-tasking when I do think that the multitude of Ne possibilities can lead to multi-tasking more easily.
"You fucking disappoint me."
5w4 4w5 8w7 sp/sx INxP/EII
When I became a mom I necessarily got a lot better at multitasking. That's when I became an Ne ego.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Ugh what? Se valuers are not all so shallow. Please.I have Ne in my ego block and I can't multi task, it's unrelated. Ne has to do with perception of a quality of an item other than it's physical form. A person, for instance may be seen as physically a certain way
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I didn't say they were shallow, in fact being Se base means they have Ne Role, which means that though it's a weaker function and one that spews out a lot of options, where the person themselves get confused about which one to go with, they still lean back on Se, and experience a lot of different things.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Having firm plans, like definitely we're going to go to Spain, isn't what Ni is. And preferring to focus on things that could happen as opposed to things that are less likely to happen...I don't think that's Ni either. Some types have firmer plans than others. I think ISj types are more likely to have definite and concrete plans, for example.
Saying "I don't know what will happen" is just being realistic. Nobody knows what will happen, no matter what their type. But leaving things up in the air may be more common with irrational types in general. In my experience, IEIs are one of the more likely types to leave things open and take things as they come; they can't be said to have "weak Ni" though.
Coming down hard on someone for not doing something that they're supposed to do isn't Ni. It might be related to being a parent rather than a type sort of thing.
@mikesilbESE confirm
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
You missed the point of my post; one is short sighted about things which is in the realm of Ni PoLR and one not.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
What kind of shallow are you talking about? SHallow in the realm of Ne perception or shallow in the realm of other things like intellectual, etc?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Posting Permissions
