Typing from palm of hand?

[falsehope]

Typing is hard, one can see this when we type people and there are many different types and there's rarely consensus.
VI typing alone is even more hard, there are simply way too many possible faces. To automate this, one would need thousands, if not dozens of thousands of photos per type to train AI. And there's problem, how to accurately type dozens of thousands of people in first place? This is why nobody has automated it yet, not even tried.
However if typing based on hand would be easier that would change the situation. Hand is a lot simpler picture and there are a lot less characteristics in it to analyse. Therefore for hand based VI there would need to be at least hundreds of photos per type to train AI. Assuming that typing from the hand is the real thing. I never researched this subject, but once I've spotted two SEIs with same hand, so similar that I would say it should be possible to VI them based on that. The hand in question was very slim and elongated compared to mine.

As example, I am posting my hand, taken by the webcam but you can see the whole hand. It's ILE hand, I wonder if there's any ILE who can confirm similar characteristics of the hand. Maybe you can post other hands for comparison, along with the type.

Also regarding automatic VI, one could focus on the eyes but that's also very difficult as eyes are always small in the picture and have variations like tired eyes, happy eyes etc. Hand on the other hand is big and clear so that should be really easier, if possible.

hand.jpg

[Chae]

Looks very elegant, congrats on a pretty hand Beyond that: Don't bother, this technique is just as useless.

We can try palmistry here instead. Your relationship line tells me that you'll marry twice with kids. Ask @Aylen about the details, I bet she does palm readings. She might charge something though

[Number 9 large]

SLI-Te

[Chae]

SLI-Te

SLI-Si is better. Pinky = too short for sub.

[Pole]

Not quite on topic but I always observe a man's hands and I can somehow tell if he's my type based on his hands. I'm quite partial to a nice pair of hands.

[Chae]

Not quite on topic but I always observe a man's hands and I can somehow tell if he's my type based on his hands. I'm quite partial to a nice pair of hands.

Same. Either classic and broad or the ones that are really delicate, like an elf is touching you. If the hands are fantastic and a blessing to the eye, so is the man.



ART.

[DirectorAbbie]

[Exodus]

Theoretically something like this could work.

The problem is, without a conceptual connection to type, you must

1) start off with a large group of accurately typed people
2) find large enough correlations to the point where they are overwhelmingly true.

Say you find that 90% of SLEs have thumb/pinky ratio (TPR) of < 0.8.
Then, if someone types someone with TPR of 0.9 as SLE using conventional methods, do you then throw out that typing? Do you redefine the types to say that they are EII when their behavior clearly says SLE?
If the correlation isn't 100% it may be taken into account but it will not offer any insight either.
On the other hand if you find some actual mechanism that corresponds to the Model A functions, it will by definition be a 100% correlation and may actually explain something too.
In my experience (and those of any reputable socionist who has made a serious attempt at VI) these physical correlations are never 100%, they're more like a loose collection of traits that may or may not occur.

[Chae]

Theoretically something like this could work.

The problem is, without a conceptual connection to type, you must

1) start off with a large group of accurately typed people
2) find large enough correlations to the point where they are overwhelmingly true.

Say you find that 90% of SLEs have thumb/pinky ratio (TPR) of < 0.8.
Then, if someone types someone with TPR of 0.9 as SLE using conventional methods, do you then throw out that typing? Do you redefine the types to say that they are EII when their behavior clearly says SLE?
If the correlation isn't 100% it may be taken into account but it will not offer any insight either.
On the other hand if you find some actual mechanism that corresponds to the Model A functions, it will by definition be a 100% correlation and may actually explain something too.
In my experience (and those of any reputable socionist who has made a serious attempt at VI) these physical correlations are never 100%, they're more like a loose collection of traits that may or may not occur.

Boooiii for real? Too much work & implausible. Because um, genetics > socionics. That's the only correlation that'll show up.

[Tallmo]

but once I've spotted two SEIs with same hand, so similar that I would say it should be possible to VI them based on that. The hand in question was very slim and elongated compared to mine.

Did they have anything else in common? Same family? Similar job? Unemployed?

[Pole]

Same. Either classic and broad or the ones that are really delicate, like an elf is touching you. If the hands are fantastic and a blessing to the eye, so is the man.



ART.

I'm not a fan of "elf hands". I love really strong looking hands, man hands lol.

[Skepsis]

I predict no correlation.

[Exodus]

Boooiii for real? Too much work & implausible.

That's what I said...

[falsehope]

Did they have anything else in common? Same family? Similar job? Unemployed?

Not the same family nor the same job, but the same workplace, I've spotted them in the kitchen and I knew the hand of one of them and then I noticed the second one had the same kind of hand. But that's the only occurrence I have spotted so far, I haven't been looking for more, but I wonder now if other ILE would have similar hand to mine (similar proportions).

[Chae]

I'm not a fan of "elf hands". I love really strong looking hands, man hands lol.

Cute and fragile is my choice, hang that in the Louvre for the world to admire.



I know what you mean though. With a lot of veins?

[Chae]

That's what I said...

Indeed?

[bgbg]

stubby midget fingers.

[Tallmo]

Not the same family nor the same job, but the same workplace, I've spotted them in the kitchen and I knew the hand of one of them and then I noticed the second one had the same kind of hand. But that's the only occurrence I have spotted so far, I haven't been looking for more, but I wonder now if other ILE would have similar hand to mine (similar proportions).

Its possible that some SEIs could have similar hands due to similar sensory activity in hand. I would assume that for example an LSI with years and years of Se use often would have stronger hands than SEI.

[Pole]

Cute and fragile is my choice, hang that in the Louvre for the world to admire.



I know what you mean though. With a lot of veins?

Yes! lol

[Hays]

Sadly I have the most manlike hands I’ve ever seen on a female.

[Chae]

Yes! lol

Knew it, good taste

[Chae]

Sadly I have the most manlike hands I’ve ever seen on a female.

^That ain't sad at all, come on girl get confident. To me it's called: Reasons to be bi I like androgyny a lot, it's the future apparently.

[Hays]

^That ain't sad at all, come on girl get confident. To me it's called: Reasons to be bi I like androgyny a lot, it's the future apparently.

Glad to be genetically leading the way for androgyny with man hands then!

These very manly hands are the only reason why I didn’t insist my long lost father and I do DNA testing for as soon as I viewed his there was no doubt that he fathered me.
His son also has them as does my grandson - we are all definitely not the same Socionics type so I see it more being a genetic factor.

Never have I ventured to a nail salon mostly because I have no interest but also I imagine the workers may gasp at my man hands and nails and wonder what other manly characteristics I may be endowed with :-)

[Sol]

Your relationship line tells me that you'll marry twice with kids.

your vision is outstanding as I see nothing there

> Ask Aylen about the details, I bet she does palm readings.

it's interesting on which of the hands the type would be - right or left... while on the opposite hand Gulenko's subtype should be

@Director Abbie

to tatoo own type on the hand was the great idea - you'll never forget it

[Grendel]

For a second, I thought this thread was about writing posts from your phone by touching the ball of your palm to the touchscreen, instead of using your thumb.

[lavos]

@thehotelambush your approach is very LII-Like. The sort of correlations you seem to be looking for would not be very useful. IF this would somehow work, it would follow the same principle as classic VI: a holistic approach. I think there could be something to it. At least, I am able to spot alpha hands usually (I'm always looking at people's hands and noticing correlations -- there definitely are correlations), and I've read people report that gamma hands have definite characteristics too. Ideally, people should post both sides of the hand.

Here is my hand:

[Shining]

S types have often more chubby and/or stronger hand than N types from my observations, especially ESxp v INxj, rational types having a tendency to be more lean overall.
@lavos What correlations do you see in alpha and gamma hands ?

[lavos]

S types have often more chubby and/or stronger hand than N types from my observations, especially ESxp v INxj, rational types having a tendency to be more lean overall.
@lavos What correlations do you see in alpha and gamma hands ?

I will share with you some correlations I think I've noticed:

Alpha's usually have medium to small sized hands, with a measure of fat in their hands (sort of a chubby appearance). SEI's in particular seem to have pinkish hands with a sort of "meaty" fingers, and their fingernails have a fragile appereance.

Gamma's tend to have small hands, with a very structured appearance. Fat content in them tends to be low. They are well proportioned and have a clear outline; each segment part (and fingernails) is very distinguishable. Nails are usually strong.

Sensing types tend to have stronger-appearing/heavier hands, intutive types have more delicate hands. People who have the "half-moon" feture on their fingernails tend to be more philosophic or have more of a pondering vibe. People without the feature tend to be more "simple-minded". Delta ST's, if of a rational subtype (SLI-Te/LSE-Te) tend to have robust hands with long and strong fingers.

[Sol]

I thought this thread was about writing posts from your phone

It's for reptiloids time agents detection among socionists which try by wrong typings discredit it to stop the appearance of "new humans age" and such to prevent our galaxy expansion in 30th century.

[falsehope]

Some more ILE, LSE, LIE hands, please, in the name of science?

[The Reality Denialist]

Wow, I'm amazed. I have no clue about people's hands.


Anyways, what are we comparing here?

If we start with finger print it would be dead end. I think genetics is here more important.





He, he. I have actual science background (studies from chemistry, physics, biology, biochemistry) which makes me bit surprised with these kind of suggestions. Anyways, I think Jungian typologies are not best here.

I have thought that one could predict with some accuracy people's BIG 5 traits from their feces. If we can separate environment factors. It requires controlled food supply as well with freedom to choose. Of course why not directly use food but that would kill the fun.
See this:

[falsehope]

Naysayng is not a proof of anything. If you can post your hand you can either disprove the thesis or I may prove it. That's the way to progress in any way.

[The Reality Denialist]

[The Reality Denialist]

Lol. Rationals have claws while irrationals have softer look.

[Chthonic Daydream]

What if one has psoriasis, though?

[The Reality Denialist]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...eading/395288/

[falsehope]

But I am looking into the socionics typing and overall hand shape, not fingers ratios or lines on the palm. Measuring finger ratios, lines on the palm is very easy and straightforward but also very limited as finger ratio is just single number (so very little predictive power) and extra line on the hand is like boolean so also very little information. I am looking into something different, like using neural networks to recognize the shape of the hand and then matching it with the socionics type. The whole hand shape is a lot more of information to start with.

[The Reality Denialist]

OK, so the goal is to get working detector instead of understanding the underlying connections.

That is the current trend when there are too many variables. Kind of sad.

BTW:
I have "psychopathic toes" (=big gap between toes). All of our family member from father's side has it.

[falsehope]

The point of software is to determine the connections on it's own by training it with sufficient data first. Once trained it will reveal the connections. The connections may be complex and non-trivial. But only if it's the case and if the hand detection would be a real thing, but without trying it's no way to tell. Better post your hand because that's the main thing I am looking for.

[The Reality Denialist]

http://www.handresearch.com/diagnost...hand-shape.htm

Anyways, there seems to be genetic connection that overrides finger ratio. There are apparently populations where females have lower 2D:4D digit ratio than males. It possibly needs extra data.