Last edited by Aylen; 03-31-2019 at 05:09 PM. Reason: personal attack
Queen Tiger and I are quite obviously talking about OPEN intolerance specifically towards people where it is going to be HARMFUL.Originally Posted by Danali
... Seriously??? You are missing the point. Thehotelambush openly said something directly offensive towards Queen Tiger related to her gender identity. This is not the same case as him keeping it to himself and ignoring her, or simply stating his opinion in a neutral way. If he did then there would be no issue here, but he had to go and make an ass out of himself. For an extroverted type you are decidedly unaware of what's going on, seeing as everyone else in this thread seems to have realized this already. Why are you so closed-minded and unsympathetic?
And then we have to consider that he decided to comment what he did on a post which had nothing to do with transgender stuff.
Exactly. @Danali It's being brought up here as an intentional, directly offensive behaviour used to harm. Today you maybe learned what intolerance is. It is hateful action with the possibility of creating negative impact towards the vulnerable. You're welcome, school is free today.
Is Danali really open minded enough to learn from this? lol
Idk. I'm pretty sure she got even that one letter of her typing wrong because there's no way she has even 2D Ne.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm not mistaken that leaves: SLI, SEI, IEI and ILI right?
... umm well...well that was fun.
I guess one worthwhile thing we can take from this is that everyone can figure out their type lol
... umm well...well that was fun.
I guess one worthwhile thing we can take from this is that everyone can figure out their type lol
Last edited by Aylen; 03-31-2019 at 09:26 PM. Reason: personal attack
Typical response to avoid admission of wrongness.... umm well...well that was fun.
I guess one worthwhile thing we can take from this is that everyone can figure out their type lol
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...by-Irina-Eglit
It's all the ISxx types, in other words.
@queentiger
You will soon find out that people on here have a tendency to ''go for the person, not the point'', if you will. There is a reason so many people ask to be banned from this forum. (we're all unstable and desperately want to cling to something safe and absolute, no matter what people tell you is a ''healthy human psyche'')
I think you're alpha extrovert, btw. More ESE than ILE, which seems to be a common thread in this thread. You DO seem pretty Fe.
Ah I see, thanks. So people here are seeing 4D Fe in me, interesting
Interesting, I just don't see how I could be ESE when my Si is terrible and I don't care for personal comfort like an Si user would@queentiger
You will soon find out that people on here have a tendency to ''go for the person, not the point'', if you will. There is a reason so many people ask to be banned from this forum. (we're all unstable and desperately want to cling to something safe and absolute, no matter what people tell you is a ''healthy human psyche'')
I think you're alpha extrovert, btw. More ESE than ILE, which seems to be a common thread in this thread. You DO seem pretty Fe.
@queentiger
You might well be ILE. Fe/Ti valuing is obvious. Check by various intertype relations with others whether or not you react best to Ti or Si in others, for example. I find it easier to observe my thoughts than to check by others, but extraversion might, in that it is directed towards external situations, be better at gauging from the IR of others. So, if you have the option, try that.
PS: If you find yourself estranged from it all, remember that it does not get to the heart of who you are. It does not say anything more substantial than anything else - what matters is what you use it for. Socionics should, in my opinion (and they differ on here), ultimately direct inwards, to regard your own thoughts and impressions. Do not be fooled by the static image it presents, you will be disappointed.
Good thing we have established that you lack scientific integrity. You have just called everyone who disagree with you delusional.
Lol, are you serious? You don't get to insult people and expect no repercussions. If I was a moderated you would have been banned already. No one asked for your opinion, and yet you shared it and continued to do so in a disgusting manner. I'm not here to change your mind. I couldn't care less about your values. But I will tell you when I think you have crossed a line and I will make my position known. I'm very well capable of turning every post of yours a commentary on your lack of common sense due to your religious background. It's not like you are free of bias. I just choose to not get involved most of the time since you are not harming anyone. Do you think personal attacks like that are "helpful"?
Good joke.
I'm curious, what is your background then? I remember you saying you practice Sufism.
WTF people. If you want to have a civil debate on Transgender, or any NTR, issues make a thread in the appropriate subforum. Keep it out of the typing threads. You know where it belongs.
Also a reminder that if you believe someone has broken forum rules, report it. Mods will determine if a rule has been broken. Personal attacks against the person you think broke the rules puts the focus on you and ends up with everyone being reported. If you can't keep it constructive take it to pm and work it out. If you still can't work it out then put each other on ignore.
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“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
The transphobia directed at this new user, and a MINOR at that - absolutely disgusts me, and it should disgust everybody else who has a heart. Just goes to show you when GLBT people complain about being bullied or all the unasked for hostility we receive in the world, we are not making anything up or 'playing victim.' They are BEING offenders. Not to be a SJW or anything but I do hope this experience educates everybody. And hell, who cares- maybe I am a SJW. There are definitely worse things to be. Like a hateful, close-minded breeder bigot.
I would say that at least a week ban for hotel ambush would be appropriate to teach the person a lesson but I will leave that up for other moderators. I can forgive something like this if the person makes appropriate amends, but the venom wasn't directed towards me so I don't think it's up to me.
To queentiger: Welcome to the forum. I hope you realize that there are still good, kind people here (and your hair is beautiful btw). I don't know what it's like to be trans, I'm just a pure cisgender gay man really but I do have a kind of girly brain/interests from time to time.
Thankssss, I'm kinda used to it at this point ahah
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me that people were like this, as on my last type me thread I also had some people throwing personal attacks my way - I wonder why me being self confident and happy with my life threatens people?
Also, on the topic of the thread, do you have an opinion on my type?
Sure, though it still doesn't make how he treated you okay or something we should just brush off. It rubbed me the wrong way mostly because you are still technically a minor, though I realize 17 isn't like 7 or anything.I'd assume you can also agree with this, but when you are LGBT having a thick skin quickly becomes vital.
I wonder why me being self confident and happy with my life threatens people?
It's a type of heterosexual sadism. Some non-GLBT people are just plain furious if we refuse to be victims and hide in fear. Some straight lives are so empty, sad and white trash that they only feel joy if they succeed in making a GLBT person feel like shit. I am really proud of you though, for having a thick skin and not letting it bother you! I think that pisses bullies off even more, that you are not letting yourself be affected by them. People aren't ready for a woman or a gay person or a trans person to lead yet because they are threatened by it. It is a phobia. When people say 'oh you are not afraid you are just an asshole' eh that's not really true. It's both. They are cowardly and afraid, and that often does make people into assholes.
Also, on the topic of the thread, do you have an opinion on my type?
I like ILE for you. I don't think you are Beta much at all, only superficially so. It's kind of a bad stereotype here that anything gay or trans gets put into the Beta dogpile haha. Your vocal patterns and mannerisms remind me of a user on here we had years ago called 'Gulanzon' who was alpha ILE.
I also don't think you are an emotional type like myself. Some people are just idiots and think 'durrr a trans person means that person must feel deeply cuz they are so girly so that makes them a feeling type.'
Hmm, interesting. I kinda assumed people were typing me as Beta because the one thing I want most is power and leadership. I'd agree, it's like these people are fearful of the fact I ain't gonna be takin their shit haha - very strange behaviour actually. Interesting how with all that I'm still the one that gets labelled as a narc/histrionic tho. Imo, these people are laughable - not in a funny way, but in a pathetic way.
Also interesting, the person who made the template was the main perpetrator.
Interesting how with all that I'm still the one that gets labelled as a narc/histrionic tho. Imo, these people are laughable - not in a funny way, but in a pathetic way.Also interesting, the person who made the template was the main perpetrator.
Yep, and sadly 'it's not just them' but more of a main issue with society. It's like you know in bad campy TV shows, the villain of the week is often a male who is effeminate. The 'good guys' are all the ones that are macho and gruff and str8-acting heteronormative. You see it even so-called gay friendly shows like Supernatural a lot. And there's even an entire tv trope about it:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/SissyVillain
(When we demonize people it's all too easy to justify discrimination against them cuz the good guys win in the end and the bad guys always die/get stopped, right?)
GLBT people do get tarred with the 'narcissistic' brush too often. And maybe you are, and maybe I am. But see, I fail to see how they are any less narcissistic than we are. Because their sex makes the babies? Well oops, there goes the gene pool. <evil grin>
I mean, I don't mind playing the villain tbh. For example, if I went on a reality show I'd hope to be the villain of my season. BUT, I also have noticed that effeminate male villains thing - I mean that might apply to you more with you being a gay male, I identify as female so I'd come under a different category of course.
There are 2 possible explanations for the "Sissy Villain" trope in my eyes:
A) Homophobia
B) Effeminate male characters are usually very loud and showy, which more typical villains usually are to be more entertaining
Now, I'd see the homophobia actually coming into play more when we look at the comparison between the hero and the villain, rather than the villain individually.
holy shit this thread is entertaining
@BandD - as awful as it is for people to attack Queentiger for being transgender, I just want to point out she’s not a minor if she’s in Britain. Am I right @queentiger? Isn’t the age of consent 16 in Britain and am I correct you are British (or is it Irish?). Forgive me if I have it wrong.
The age of consent IS 16, but under 18s are still considered minors. Because while we can have sex, we are still not legally allowed to send things like sexually explicit pictures. Also, idk if this is true, but one of my friends who is into law said that 16 and 17 year olds can only have sex with other 16 and 17 year olds.
Indeed it is lol
I see! Thanks for clarifying.
No prob, happy to helpI see! Thanks for clarifying.
I think I've sorta spotted a pattern although this isn't a guaranteed typing at all, you know yourself best.
I feel like there's a pattern here, although I just can't figure the original typing out.
"TIM SLE-Ti"
another IEI which dreams himself as own dual
Ni fantasy as a try to improve own weak regions
the similar principle for reducing of the type is used in a friendship with a dual where you introject his personality and identify with it. but there is an expert model to copy, instead of archaic and muddy contents of own weak regions.
there is intuitive feeling about the useful approach, but no dual for this to work good and as should. the partial realisation of the approach wich leads to nothing or doubtful results or at best lesser effective ones
@sbbds
That would be great and all, but the TIM I have there is a placeholder while I research the only 4 possible types for me.
I think ILE was always the best option for you--a telltale sign of strong Ne is the constant, incessant openness to another possibility/potentiality (even if what you got is already good enough lol); and buttressed by Ti, which is ever self-critiquing for a sense of certainty and logical congruence, ILEs are predisposed to "seeking" and asking "why."
You VI like someone who possesses strong Ne, with a tendency to visibly ideate "above and beyond" with your eyes and jerky, "head(y)" movements that can still be differentiated from those performed by a particularly hyperactive Se lead, who manifests a fuller body "fidget"; you also have reduced facial mimicry and a "flattened affect" often associated with high Ti.
Furthermore, the "troll" force is strong in you; and I approve. lol As far as your forum presence is concerned, that was the first indicator showing you possessed fairly strong, nimble Ti and weaker, though definitely valued, hidden agenda Fe--which manifests as the desire to be loved/admired/accepted though its method of securing that is somewhat rough around the edges and not readily discernible to most. HA Fe users live for the applause and will carry out a plethora of (usually entertaining and attention grabbing) "antics" to get it, but when seriously called out, there's usually some degree of capitulation from a place of "harmlessly just fucking around."
Anecdotally, I'm very close to a few ILEs of your ilk, the "in your face," "tell it like it is," "no holds barred," "shock jock" provocateurs/rabblerousers who pump that role-Se for all its worth; they're all 7w8s or 8w7s which I think strengthens the semblance of Se and moreover, "power fantasies" you've expressed in other threads that understandably may be mistaken for "beta" characteristics. You also seem to be fairly resilient, which I admire and respect.
Most importantly, remember that your brain and "ego" are still growing and developing--allow yourself the space to let that happen.
Thanks for the detail, and while I'd love to be ILE I just cannot see it. Beta quadra is actually almost too good of a fit.
Couldn't the troll thing be an argument for EIE as well?
From WSS (World Socionics Society) this fits all too well.. EIEs are willing to give out messages that may shock or anger people if that is the mood they feel will lead to greater passion in others. This can manifest in the belief that positive change is best brought out through rebellion or revolution.
I also would argue I'm not as open as you're suggesting: considering that I am literally saying the only 4 possible options are an Se valuing extravert. So that would leave SLE,SEE,LIE,EIE. In fact, one of the reasons I do very much doubt SLE is because of the HA. Se hidden agenda actually seems to fit much more, those "power fantasies" actually being a good example of that. I assume when you say you're seeing openness, you'd be talking about the changing of types. This could actually be explained with EIE through that 1D Ti.
Also in terms of enneagram, I'm actually 3w4 (the one thing I can agree with Kill4Me on). I'm actually very image oriented, and I will say that in person I'm not as "tell it like it is" as I may like to be. Yes I do certainly like to provoke people, but that is the image I like to present - a provocateur - like you said. Image oriented doesn't always have to mean "positive nice image" and that is probably where I'm more w4 than w2.
Coming back to that fantasy, it was quite hyperbolic also. This could also fit EIE very much. My emotional state was clear, I want to be in charge, I feel strong and powerful - so to reflect that I was quite dramatic in how I express this.
The mood expressed is often heightened, perhaps to the dramatic, with the intent that this be the clearest, least ambiguous sign of their own emotional state.
If you resonate so strongly with EIE and Beta quadra, then there's probably something "there." I believe that, unequivocally, you value Fe + Ti and so Beta quadra still works. I do see strong Ne but EIEs have 3-4D Ne, which might manifest in the ability to perceive and don different personas/masks for some aim > as an actor or to appeal to a certain type of crowd, for example.
In the video, you said a few times that you can't deal with "emotional" or "sensitive" people, which, at face value, would seem to indicate a logical preference. However, it's probably more poignant to ask why don't you like to deal with these types of people? If you're an Fe-lead/creative, then that means you're an empath who can't help but feel the emotions of others, as if by contagion, which I've heard can be taxing or "too much" particularly for Fe leads and most definitely when the emotions are negative/unpleasant--this is what motivates them to actively affect/influence the emotional vista, in essence, to make themselves and everybody else feel better. And vice versa, if the Fe lead feels like shit, they are perfectly adept at making everyone else feel like shit, too. lol Is that what you mean?
Oh here's the thing: I'm definitely a very empathetic person which may not really manifest in the persona I'm trying to portray myself here. And yeah that last part sums it up pretty well, if I feel like shit so will everyone else lol. The good part about this though is if I'm feeling really good, then everyone else will do so as well.
I think yeah, can't probably wasn't the best word choice. But I'd say I don't like dealing with those types of people because it's like you've created that really good mood, everyone is laughing then you get some bore who starts being all sensitive about something "offensive". So ironically, I'd say it is actually my Fe that causes me to not like those people ahah.
@queentiger
May I ask how long you've been trans? Or, perhaps a better way of asking, would you be open telling a little more of your story as it pertains to gender? I'm particularly interested in when you started feeling more confident in expressing yourself, including any stages in that.
I ask because I think this is a bit of a fascinating opportunity to inspect what I think are common female = F and male = T typings, or tendencies to type in that way.
Like if you are trying on different aspects of "typical" femininity (e.g. touching your hair, moving your hands fluidly, using particular speech patterns, etc.), might that influence others toward seeing you as more emotional? Not that you are, but it's something that occurred to me.
If that story is too private, I would completely be ok with that, btw.
Speaking of emotional expressiveness, I see you being open, but not super emotional. You have feelings, and some of them show, but it's understated and not your focus, at least in that video. If you have been told you need to be more expressive, then I can see how that would nudge you in that direction, making you more expressive than a "default" person of your type (whatever that may be).
As an example, from a young age I was surrounded by the values of being able to be logical in my opinions and to rationally present them. I also had critique from a young age on my writing. Thus, I believe I am a bit more meticulous and dry in my writing than I might have been otherwise. Not that it masks who I am entirely, just that my nurturing adds a shade of variety.
Can you give me an example or two of a situation where you had to deal with an emotional person? What were the circumstances, what happened, etc.
How long have you wanted to be in control (of groups)? When were you first able to start doing that?
When did you first start thinking independently? As in, do you remember when you first started noticing, "Everyone / these people / this important person thinks in this way; but, you know what, I think differently." Did you encounter resistance to that? Encouragement?
What board games do you like? Are there certain types you like better? Like some games emphasize counting or logic while others depend more on the people elements or luck.
NTR, how long have you been growing your hair? I like it.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
Q-tip is too withdrawn, girly and low energy for SLE-Ti. Even quieter SLEs exude a force-field around them. Bottom line...SLEs present as formidable, male or female, not wimpy.
I'll repost what I wrote on the other thread:
Qtig does not even get to the pre-qualification phase for consideration of SLE because she is too girly, withdrawn, and low energy (don't believe me, watch tig's video). No SLE-Ti would put those bunny ears on their picture/avatar. Furthermore, Sky from Blue Ink, Coral from Real World, Camilla Poindexter and many other female SLEs all come across as ass-whippers. When I am sure that any of those women would beat Qtig up in a fight with one hand tied behind their backs, then I don't even have to reach consideration of SLE because there is no possible way the person can be SLE. For me to even consider somebody SLE, they have to be able to at least hold their own against Sky, Coral or Camilla in a fight, and this Qtig cannot do....watch Qtip's video, any one of those women would toss her around like a ragdoll. [Keep in mind that Qtig's 3w4 ego identifies with what it perceives as the rarer, more assertive types (triple assertive & SLE-Ti)....it's like recurring They show up as 9s or 3s and then after they spend some time on the forum they become triple expansive/assertive styles with sx/so 8w7 as the primary and either SLE or LIE for their socionics type. SLE/LIE 837 sx/so is now like the lamborghini of typology where people just want to be seen driving around in it. lol ]
Qtig is more like a Katie Hopkins or Tiffany Pollard. That's a much better fit. They just do a lot of compensatory posturing but they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Though, they swear up and down they can.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...66#post1331366
Just reposting the same thing doesn't prove your point. I responded to that and you didn't give me a reply back. Also, I argued above for EIE as I actually think that is more likely tbh.
Thank u, next
Lot of questions lol, I'll try cover most of them as best I can.@queentiger
May I ask how long you've been trans? Or, perhaps a better way of asking, would you be open telling a little more of your story as it pertains to gender? I'm particularly interested in when you started feeling more confident in expressing yourself, including any stages in that.
I ask because I think this is a bit of a fascinating opportunity to inspect what I think are common female = F and male = T typings, or tendencies to type in that way.
Like if you are trying on different aspects of "typical" femininity (e.g. touching your hair, moving your hands fluidly, using particular speech patterns, etc.), might that influence others toward seeing you as more emotional? Not that you are, but it's something that occurred to me.
If that story is too private, I would completely be ok with that, btw.
Speaking of emotional expressiveness, I see you being open, but not super emotional. You have feelings, and some of them show, but it's understated and not your focus, at least in that video. If you have been told you need to be more expressive, then I can see how that would nudge you in that direction, making you more expressive than a "default" person of your type (whatever that may be).
As an example, from a young age I was surrounded by the values of being able to be logical in my opinions and to rationally present them. I also had critique from a young age on my writing. Thus, I believe I am a bit more meticulous and dry in my writing than I might have been otherwise. Not that it masks who I am entirely, just that my nurturing adds a shade of variety.
Can you give me an example or two of a situation where you had to deal with an emotional person? What were the circumstances, what happened, etc.
How long have you wanted to be in control (of groups)? When were you first able to start doing that?
When did you first start thinking independently? As in, do you remember when you first started noticing, "Everyone / these people / this important person thinks in this way; but, you know what, I think differently." Did you encounter resistance to that? Encouragement?
What board games do you like? Are there certain types you like better? Like some games emphasize counting or logic while others depend more on the people elements or luck.
NTR, how long have you been growing your hair? I like it.
So pretty much since I can remember I knew I was "trans", I just didn't know there was a word for it. I knew I was more girly, I knew I felt wrong as a male. In fact one of my earlier memories from when I was about 5: someone at school asked me if I wanted to be a girl and I was just like "yeah".
I think I've always kinda leaned more towards the "sassy feminine" rather than the traditional, dainty housewife type feminine one may think of.
As for the emotional people, I wouldn't say I'm bad at dealing with it, I just don't like to for reasons I stated above. But in general I try get that person laughing again to keep up with the emotional atmosphere I am creating. If that fails, I'll usually tell them to leave. Sorry it's hard for me to give examples, I don't really remember specific details ahah.
I've pretty much always wanted to be in control of groups. I've always actually been really aware of how to tailor this to a particular group. Like in primary school, my group of friends were the clever kids so to take control I would kind of rub it in that I was the smartest of them. Not to be mean, but to show I was in charge.
So I like strategy games that have a people element. Can't name any specifically, but games where you have to try deceive people, form an alliance etc. are right up my street. Even in games like monopoly I try to influence the emotional state of others to give myself an advantage - pretending I'm gonna give up to get other players to let their guard down for example.
I've been growing my hair since I was about 10 haha, obviously had it trimmed plenty of times since then. Thanks for the compliment, I just don't like the colour haha - any suggestions for a colour that may look good on me would be nice
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