I can see it being annoying and bothering someone but Ne isn't an insult to someone or a threat to someone so that's why it's hard for me to understand the anger, I guess the anger is just tied to being angry that your time is being wasted. Maybe PoLRs can just cause someone to get angry in general because of the psychological stress.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
I think that PoLRs are problematic because they are something that we’re not good at dealing with, and we know we’re not good at dealing with them.
They reveal our weaknesses for all to see.
Not everyone gets angry at having their weaknesses brought to light, but anger can be a better response sometimes than giving up.
Then the anger is more irrational, just a reaction from psychological stress and insecurity rather than the actual IE itself causing the anger. Cuz like I said there's an available insult with Ti PoLR and Se pressure can make anyone angry including Se PoLRs. I can see Si PoLR being frustrating but someone going on about details makes an Si PoLR angry? I just don't see how that would do that, maybe frustrated. Ni PoLR is the hardest for me to understand, maybe it would make someone confused. Anyway, Lady leviathan said Ne makes her want to scratch someone's eyes out, I'm just lost as to how someone daydreaming up a bunch of baseless ideas causes somebody to want to do that, unless PoLR just causes an irrational anger in us.
Yeah. I dont like this when it's done with humans because it can at times be so damaging. I'm more cautious and play it safe. "If you dont have enough info, don't conclude anything at all." I think it's important to be that way in general, but especially with human beings, since feelings are involved.
Personally, I really only start going past irritation/annoyance when someone pushes and doesn't respond to my attempts to shut it down. Just keeps on going and going.
I'd say that's accurate, yes, the psychological stress part.
Fair
I start off annoyed, but if someone keeps going, I do get pissed off. I get like "cut the bullshit" basically. Idk.
@Lord Pixel
They think Ne is manipulation. It also gives perspective to their preconceptions and threatens their ego and sense of reality
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Inability to admit you were wrong or that both of something can be true and that doesn't make u more wrong. this is kinda why so many LSIs are power hungry assholes and ESIs get arrogant and snooty as well but they are usually too ethical to not seek power like LSIs. this can even make them more dangerous though as they could try to sneak around outside of the rules more than LSI will maybe because they think they have a right too if their Fi was violated enough or depending on how healthy the ESI is.
somebody pointed out that 'Umbridges' are often LSI- yes there are a lot of LSE Umbridges too and I still think Umbridge is LSE-Si but I've met some LSIs that lust for power above all else. that they hide it behind a compassionate and Fe valuing nice guy facade doesn't really change that fact.
They subconsciously always expect everybody to go along with what they said like a cult leader. weak against possibilities and always needing to be right. I get into fights with my LSI semi-bf about this. the reverse is how a lot of ILE men can often come across as too weakly beta males, like the ability to cut down thru the myriad of possibilities the way a machete helps u see through the vines is a positive side of Ne polr. but then the Ne polrs ruin it by masturbating themselves too much over a single point or congratulating themselves when they don't have enough pieces of the puzzle yet.
A good example of Ne-PoLR is being chronically depressed and not being able to imagine your life being different than it currently is. Every good thing in life seems impossibly out of reach and there’s nothing you can do in the short-medium term to improve things. People will tell you to get out of your comfort zone and try something different but you already know what the outcome’s going to be and that it isn’t worth your time
There are many words I can use for describing ESI, but "Fun" is obviously not one of them. Their Ne is suck.
I hate to come along and be the one to be like "no, you're wrong," but this is actually just the hopelessness symptom of depression, which every depressed type experiences...there are lessons on this in suicide prevention programs, in uni psychology classes, and everything...it also ties in with anhedonia...I hope you feel better.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 09-09-2022 at 09:40 AM.
This is kind of assuming that seeking power is unethical, is it not? I mean, power is a form of protection, too. It can be sought, and used, in perfectly ethical ways. That is even part of ESI-LIE's stereotypical dynamic: LIE businessman type is influenced to do things in more ethical ways because of ESI.
I think I experience Ne PoLR with my artwork. Too many ideas, too many possibilities...which then results in me lacking autonomy by needing someone else to narrow it down. I get overwhelmed by possibilities, like I am drowning in them (Ne) and cannot see which one will yield the "best" financial outcome, or is the most efficient idea to work on (Te). Asking the dual, who has Ne demo and Base Te, is the perfect remedy...as long as the input has 0 relevance to the aesthetics, because of their Si PoLR. I mean, my poor LIE learned what leg warmers were and then described them as warrior gear. Keep it based on things like consumer data.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 09-09-2022 at 12:51 PM.
some more or less typical traits of Ne in superego:
suspicious, simplistic understanding of people, situations and motivations, disturbed by innuendo or nuance, can have a tendency to assume they're on the wrong end of a joke, nervous when others evaluate their inner life or their psychological profile, negativism towards what is new, exotic or different, surface-level judgments of people (based on their looks or achievements instead of their more subtle traits or personality, for example), considering alternatives instead of just doing what is immediately clear to them tires them and is difficult, problems with evaluating the potential capabilities of something, tendency to feel ''betrayed'' or misled by the complexities of people, when people show new sides of themselves, finds ''what if'' scenarios and fantastical speculation about what could be annoying
An example of Ne POLR I see a lot in LSIs is if they are in a rut, they have a hard time seeing alternative routes to get out of it. For example, most of the LSIs I have met seem to have a long list of jobs they have done but only a few had long-term viable careers. It’s not they aren’t/weren’t capable, it just seemed more of a matter of not planning for unforeseen circumstances/contingency planning.
ESIs, on the other hand, know how to buffer better because they use their people skills to maintain connections (Fi) and to get what they need so it usually seems like a smoother ride for them.
Caveat: I mean Fe base is usually good at making connections but can be shaky at maintaining them.
Ne polr is more like inability to brainstorm and know ways out of circumstances. Unless they see it work in action, it remains outside of their abilities. Lots of pounding salt for no reason.
IEE might be a chaotic sh*storm when unhealthy, but at least they can figure out some novel way of surviving. Those 100 open computer tabs has some purpose. Ne polr is like, the definition of insanity.
If we are talking textbook definitions...Ne PoLR is not the inability to brainstorm, it's just getting overwhelmed by the possibility and experiencing a loss of autonomy in choosing one. The inability to know which possibility to choose. It doesn't mean you can't see options, it means you can't estimate the potential each option has.
What you are describing is more along the lines of 1D Te issues as well, though. Like...you know you have to do uni, work, get a car, get car insurance, and a bunch of basic life shit like this. This is your to do list. You can sit there and think, "I could do this first, or that first, or this first, ir that first..." you have all these options, but can't figure out what the most efficient option is.
Very nice distinction there, thanks for catching that. Inability to choose what to do, and leads to your next point, and as soon as I wrote and sent it, I realized there is a lot of one dimensional Te there. I was thinking mostly in terms of IEE Ne in relation to ESI Ne polr, because it's a intertype I'm personally more familiar with.
The rules change slightly for a LSI logics type.
I'd say the big difference is probably more about ethics between the two, but I wonder how ILE would fix that?
Circling back, IEE also has issues prioritizing logistics, (downstream unhealthy movement). Some of the major quadra disfunction happens here. You neglect that thing and it breaks and it leads to another thing breaking and so. I think of it like my chainsaws, if I neglect one broken component, then it leads to something else breaking and so on.
Focusing on Ne polr there is a lot of standing still while moving so to speak.
Tbh it's easy when you are living it, lol...I mean, this is basically just describing my life. Lol
Cannot be explained better than this.
And often all of this is accompanied by moments of anxiety that only end when the individual makes a clear-cut decision. Usually, when external factors limit his choices, he can even feel reassured. And this is quite visible in both ISTjs and ISFjs.
An ESI friend of mine was undecided whether to continue university or start a job for which she had sent curriculum. She felt a lot of anxiety at the thought that she might lose the chance to make money right away and at the same time she didn't know if it would be the right choice or not. Shortly after, her request was rejected and she felt liberated: "at least now I have no choice but to continue university. I feel much better."
So, XSI might consider these possibilities, but suffer the choices at the same time.
Ne PolR is not directly connected to lack of imagination etc. There are a lot of Ne polR (like myself) that have a lot of different ideas, likes writing etc. Its just that with their "real" life they want a clear path to follow.
well yeah you kind of have to keep telling them that if you try this out, it will be fine. I have a hard time making decisions with them because I'll be bringing 5 other options, and they just stare at me blankly not saying anything. so I guess their dual helps them by narrowing it down and explaning in depth why this is a good decision. at least this is what my eie mom did to my lsi brother when he wouldn't get a job.
I think though, I'd rather be ne polr than se polr. I wish I was more functional in the real world. But I do see IEEs are always able to get by seemingly, and there se role just saves them from the chaos they create.
I hate personality prompts/tell me about yourself sort of questions where the expectation is that you’ll answer with something relatable and funny like “i’m a coffee addict and love binge watching Netflix shows!”. They feel very alpha
I have noticed something with LSIs and how my demo Ne can kind of help them. For example, LSI might have a very black and white approach to how they see a problem and can be kind of stuck on one trajectory. I try to examine the issue in the big picture and nudge them towards a compromise which allows them to relax. It’s rarely in the form of telling the LSI what to do, but more like bringing in a new idea/perspective as a joke or as a discussion topic.
A type with Ne PoLR has a difficult time understanding ideas that seem new or novel, especially when it has no tangible effect on their lives.
Sometimes it's the simple things. My friend wanted to talk about all the possibilities involved in some imaginary situation where everyone in the world was born with horns. How people would be bullied over them, how people would be prideful about them, how some would be considered more attractive, plastic surgery, and so on. I hated this conversation and I shut it down immediately because it a) was some hypothetical scenario that aimlessly went over all these possibilities, and b) had 0 relevance to reality or everyday life. The more he went on about it, the angrier I got.
I don't understand things if they're too abstract. I have to ask for a concrete example or else I don't understand because there are too many ways that it can be interpreted.
Bump
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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