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Thread: Common PoLR Fallacies

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    The worst part about it is that I'm generally pretty clear about what I'd like if someone has to get me a gift and if not jerky is always a safe bet. I tell people this and still I get things that aren't jerky. If you don't know, buy meat. More important the occasion, more expensive the meat. Men solved.
    Hah i've got a friend who has a similar attitude to presents as you. He always says: buy me alcohol, i'll drink it and next time you can give alcohol again. lol

    I bought him a hobbelpaard (rocking horse) once because the logo of his new company is a rocking horse. It was something you've got to assemble yourself. I'm pretty sure he left it at our old office place lol.

    I usually buy gifts that I like to give, rather than that i'd think they like to recieve, otherwise it's too much hassle, but in his case (after the rocking horse debacle) i'll stick to what he explicitly tells me to buy

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Hah i've got a friend who has a similar attitude to presents as you. He always says: buy me alcohol, i'll drink it and next time you can give alcohol again. lol

    I bought him a hobbelpaard (rocking horse) once because the logo of his new company is a rocking horse. It was something you've got to assemble yourself. I'm pretty sure he left it at our old office place lol.

    I usually buy gifts that I like to give, rather than that i'd think they like to recieve, otherwise it's too much hassle, but in his case (after the rocking horse debacle) i'll stick to what he explicitly tells me to buy
    Yup, that perspective offends me.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Yup, that perspective offends me.
    you mean the 'buy stuf i like to give rather than what they want to get" part i take it? Yeah, it's usually not that bad as I describe it. But I get a lot of "buy me a coupon for books" etc and I usually don't do that. In your example i'd try to buy meat, but still something that's also funy to give or smthg....

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    you mean the 'buy stuf i like to give rather than what they want to get" part i take it? Yeah, it's usually not that bad as I describe it. But I get a lot of "buy me a coupon for books" etc and I usually don't do that. In your example i'd try to buy meat, but still something that's also funy to give or smthg....
    Yeah, that exactly. I take the perspective of it's not for me. The whole point to giving gifts to me is to get something that they want or like or makes them happy or whatever. To that end I'm fantastic at giving gifts. I often try to give people the best gifts they've ever gotten. So that's the selfish aspect of it for me. I want to be the guy who got it more right than everyone ever did. I am also selfish regarding all aspects that aren't the actual gift. I like to make things really hard to open, wrap 'em in duck tape or put them in way too many boxes so they have to open all of them.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Yeah, that exactly. I take the perspective of it's not for me. The whole point to giving gifts to me is to get something that they want or like or makes them happy or whatever. To that end I'm fantastic at giving gifts. I often try to give people the best gifts they've ever gotten. So that's the selfish aspect of it for me. I want to be the guy who got it more right than everyone ever did. I am also selfish regarding all aspects that aren't the actual gift. I like to make things really hard to open, wrap 'em in duck tape or put them in way too many boxes so they have to open all of them.
    That actually sounds pretty awesome I think for me buying gifts is too...obligatory? I mean, i do buy stuff spontaniously for people and then it's usually stuff that fits them well. But on birthdays/housewarmings etc it's all so contrieved that I get rebellious.

    Your attitude seems better, might need to change my gift giving behaviour.


    My brother has a "presents drawer" from which he gives random stuff to people, that's basically the worst gift giving behaviour i've ever encountered

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    Ti PoLR, consistent fallacy occurance fallacy.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    That actually sounds pretty awesome I think for me buying gifts is too...obligatory? I mean, i do buy stuff spontaniously for people and then it's usually stuff that fits them well. But on birthdays/housewarmings etc it's all so contrieved that I get rebellious.

    Your attitude seems better, might need to change my gift giving behaviour.


    My brother has a "presents drawer" from which he gives random stuff to people, that's basically the worst gift giving behaviour i've ever encountered
    Oh, for sure. Obligation is a big part of it for me too. Most all of my friends don't make a huge deal of gifts or occasions that involve them and with those friends I tend not to either. It's certainly more of a "If you're gonna make me play this game, I'm going to win it." I guess that's why the perspective of giving gifts you want to give is alien to me. It's like if a friend is super stoked about some game that they want you to play and then you agree to play it with them, which of course makes them even more excited, then you not only purposefully afront their desires by playing poorly but laughing about it or enjoying the wreckage too.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Oh, for sure. Obligation is a big part of it for me too. Most all of my friends don't make a huge deal of gifts or occasions that involve them and with those friends I tend not to either. It's certainly more of a "If you're gonna make me play this game, I'm going to win it." I guess that's why the perspective of giving gifts you want to give is alien to me. It's like if a friend is super stoked about some game that they want you to play and then you agree to play it with them, which of course makes them even more excited, then you not only purposefully afront their desires by playing poorly but laughing about it or enjoying the wreckage too.
    I once got very cross with someone who spent about 3 months asking me 'what gifts I wanted' to which I eventually told them and then they bought what they wanted instead of what was on the list.

    What a fucking shenanigans if ever I saw it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Oh, for sure. Obligation is a big part of it for me too. Most all of my friends don't make a huge deal of gifts or occasions that involve them and with those friends I tend not to either. It's certainly more of a "If you're gonna make me play this game, I'm going to win it." I guess that's why the perspective of giving gifts you want to give is alien to me. It's like if a friend is super stoked about some game that they want you to play and then you agree to play it with them, which of course makes them even more excited, then you not only purposefully afront their desires by playing poorly but laughing about it or enjoying the wreckage too.

    Yeah, my attitude to "you're making me play this game" is "ill make sure ill get a laugh out of it at your expense"

    if i'm agreeing to playing the game my attitude is more like yours. It depends on the relationship.

    but there was some truth to that last part about playing poorly and laughing about the wreckage. That I used to to if people (like gym teachers, or groups of aquintances) forced me into teamsports, i'd always sabotage the stuff in such a way that it wouldn't reflect badly on me, but usually after a while people figured out and left me alone. Good times

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Yeah, my attitude to "you're making me play this game" is "ill make sure ill get a laugh out of it at your expense"

    if i'm agreeing to playing the game my attitude is more like yours. It depends on the relationship.

    but there was some truth to that last part about playing poorly and laughing about the wreckage. That I used to to if people (like gym teachers, or groups of aquintances) forced me into teamsports, i'd always sabotage the stuff in such a way that it wouldn't reflect badly on me, but usually after a while people figured out and left me alone. Good times
    Dude, deets? Those sound like stories I'd love to hear if you care to share :]
    Easy Day

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    Fe polr. I'm not emotionless, I'm not a sociopath, I don't hate everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Yeah, that exactly. I take the perspective of it's not for me. The whole point to giving gifts to me is to get something that they want or like or makes them happy or whatever. To that end I'm fantastic at giving gifts. I often try to give people the best gifts they've ever gotten. So that's the selfish aspect of it for me. I want to be the guy who got it more right than everyone ever did. I am also selfish regarding all aspects that aren't the actual gift. I like to make things really hard to open, wrap 'em in duck tape or put them in way too many boxes so they have to open all of them.
    I have never heard anyone admit this. Thank you, because this is exactly the way I operate, except for the difficulty of opening part, because I am lazy. I am usually fabulously successful.

    So I am embittered against one sister-in-law who is terrible at gift-giving, so bad that the extended family chose a rotating gift-giving system to minimize hers and our trauma at Christmas. She can't even get the system right, and violates the rules and will announce that she has the perfect gift for X, so she has to have X this year, so we have to redo the system to suit her. One year I deliberately decided to collect nutcrackers, because I figured that would be easy for her and would limit her misguided flights of fancy. How could that backfire on me, right?

    She found the most hideous cowboy/bandit nutcracker for me, and thought he was so cute that she bought one for all of the women in the family.

    She explained to me that he had a brown hat on that matched my brown sofa. No matter that no other nutcracker in my house looks like that (or indeed any other nutcracker in the world.)
    Last edited by Iris; 09-10-2014 at 08:46 PM.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    I get bored or intimidated when I read the chatbox and there's a lot about Socionics, broad niche topics or things that blatantly don't pertain to me. I'll say something inane or overly specific like 'I've done such-and-such once', or I like drinking coffee.
    Last edited by suedehead; 09-10-2014 at 07:58 PM.

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    I've seen alot of people, when they resort to using their PolR's totally overdoing it or not knowing the appropriate measure to apply.

    *II for instance, absolutely blowing up on people when they hit their limit, whereas an S*E would probably know how to get the same point across with less energy at a earlier time.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Dude, deets? Those sound like stories I'd love to hear if you care to share :]
    It mostly was stuff like distracting people from my team so they missed balls and such. Sometimes deliberate clumsyness too. A lot of fixed matches where me and friends were on opposite teams and we'd just basically destroy the entire balance of games by one of us being deliberately incompetent etc etc. Sometimes our class would make up different extra rules, like I remember where we played voleyball and the rule was that people at the net were only allowed to hit the ball backwards, that lead to a very confused teacher. I think in general my class wasn't into sports at all and they were happy with any kind of distraction from doing it seriously.


    There's two stories i'm kinda famous for with the people i know from gradeschool:

    One thing I've noticed about gymteachers is that they like to pick on the weakest performing female in the class they're teaching. This was without fail. One thing that was populair in holland when i was in gradeschool was "slagbal" it's kinda baseball but you can hit with a plank OR a club and the ball is kinda soft. To demarcate teams they hand out ribons wich you wear around your neck. Anyhow, this girl in class asked me to switch ribbons with me because she was sick of hearing him laugh and scoff at her not being able to hit the ball, so we switched mid game, and again, and again... to the point where I was playing on both teams, always as beater. The rest of the class wasn't competitive and hated the teacher so it was all great fun.

    When we noticed he didn't really see that happening we did it all the time just to secretly ridicule him, to the point where multiple players would be switching team and just be field players or hitting players all the time. Later we've done it with other teachers, although they were usually a bit better and people started to become more competitive in highschool. To the day of today i'm baffeled by the amount of shit you can get away with in plain sight.

    The other moment of glory was when I took the doorknob and loosened it while the teacher was in one of the locker-rooms. (same teacher, in my days the rumours where that he spent too much time in the female lockerrooms although i'm not certain that was actually true, nonetheless, we hated the guy)
    In holland one of the knobs is kinda the one that opens the door, the other part kinda rotates that part (it's hard to explain) but by taking out the protruding side a bit, if you try to use the other side it'll just fall off and you're stuck. So we were out on the soccerfield for 15 minutes before he'd found a way to open the door. He was livid, i'm very glad my class was loyal or i'm quite sure he'd manhandeled me if he'd found out it was me. There was no soccer that day, we spend the rest of the 45m of class basicallyl just taking the brunt of his angry words while trying not to piss ourselves from laughter...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    More important the occasion, more expensive the meat. Men solved.



    This is what I love about men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I once got very cross with someone who spent about 3 months asking me 'what gifts I wanted' to which I eventually told them and then they bought what they wanted instead of what was on the list.

    What a fucking shenanigans if ever I saw it.
    Was it jerky?
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I have never heard anyone admit this. Thank you, because this is exactly the way I operate, except for the difficulty of opening part, because I am lazy. I am usually fabulously successful.

    So I am embittered against one sister-in-law who is terrible at gift-giving, so bad that the extended family chose a rotating gift-giving system to minimize hers and our trauma at Christmas. She can't even get the system right, and violates the rules and will announce that she has the perfect gift for X, so she has to have X this year, so we have to redo the system to suit her. One year I deliberately decided to collect nutcrackers, because I figured that would be easy for her and would limit her misguided flights of fancy. How could that backfire on me, right?

    She found the most hideous cowboy/bandit nutcracker for me, and thought he was so cute that she bought one for all of the women in the family.

    She explained to me that he had a brown hat on that matched my brown sofa. No matter that no other nutcracker in my house looks like that (or indeed any other nutcracker in the world.)
    LOL! You should get a new sofa just to take her excuse away.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post


    This is what I love about men.
    *nods sagely* Most people love men for their meat.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    What POLR is this? I can sorta relate
    Ne apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    Ne apparently.
    That's the beauty of socionics, you can say it's Ni then Ni ignoring rather than N PoLR

  22. #62
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    some things that people have assumed about me based on apparently knowing my PoLR (rather than a direct observation or an allowance for general human behaviour) include: not having any balls, being passive-aggressive in everything, and appearing to dither due to supposedly not being decisive or practical. (Some of these may occasionally be true. Or not.).

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    I feel like SEIs are constantly trying to calm me down. Also, sometimes I sense a distance that I can't really traverse with them, they seem to be always holding me at arm's length. I feel like I'm being managed sometimes.

    I think SLIs don't like me or they are trying to be too cool and act as if they can be bothered with anything.

    My grandpa was an SLI, I always felt like he didn't like me as a kid and I grew up and realized that he loved me a lot he just showed it differently.

    As for my PoLr, I love to cook and I like to eat and enjoy good food. I have Si PoLr this doesn't stop me from that.

    I'm usually the cook of the house and I want to try different things.

    I can develop a good fashion sense, I know what looks good I don't clash colors (but my mom is an SEI so I could have benefited from that growing up).

    There's a lot that's true about the Si PoLr as well.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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