OK tell me about stuff you've achieved so far in this way.Originally Posted by Pookie
Zen-like acceptance... or increased intolerance.
It's not really ethically shaky, it's shaky in terms of how it's not going to predict any specifics.
Alright thanks for the links
When I asked about you getting better in life too, I meant in terms of IQ, not in terms of new experiences.
I am by far the coolest person ive ever met.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Yes, it made me more confident in my ability to do just about anything I put my mind to. Just because I have an aptitude for something doesn't mean I want to do or will enjoy doing it. Even with high aptitude it takes practice and a general desire to accomplish. I would not have the same IQ score today that I was able to achieve then because I simply did not continue to exercise my ability to solve those kinds of problems. If I ever need it, I know it is available to me. It's just in storage right now.
Oh, this Brave New World of socionics...
A glimpse of the potential?
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
CoolYes, it made me more confident in my ability to do just about anything I put my mind to. Just because I have an aptitude for something doesn't mean I want to do or will enjoy doing it. Even with high aptitude it takes practice and a general desire to accomplish. I would not have the same IQ score today that I was able to achieve then because I simply did not continue to exercise my ability to solve those kinds of problems. If I ever need it, I know it is available to me. It's just in storage right now.
I agree that its shaky in that way as well. Obviously, no psychological theory is going to reliably predict specific human behavior. My argument was that it can make you moderately better at predicting generalities.
maybe but what use is that
I completely disagree with you, even though the idea make logical sense, but it will not make your life amazing at least it will make you stressed out (how much time will it take to master acting and thinking like all the 16 types??). knowing the types can help you understand others but it is waste of time and energy to try to be all of them.
the idea of knowing your type is self-awareness, the idea of self-development is self actualization, and amazing life needs self-expression. This being said it means you have to be yourself to enjoy an amazing happy life, not the opposite by wearing the masks of other types since it won't be natural anyway.
I think the best way for self-development is developing your creative function since it will express who you really are with alignment with your values and strengths. However, to have an amazing happy life you will have to use your developed creative function to make contribution even if it is for a single person.
I read Krieger's post as being tinged with irony and sarcasm. Maybe I was wrong. Easier to see those things face to face.
I pretty much agree with most of what you say here though. Welcome to the forum.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
OK, both of you have a serious case of reading miscomprehension going on. I really don't want to make an example of you but you do such a good job at it yourself that all I can provide is damage control. now that I'm pushed into this unenviable position, I'd better make sure you learn something.
you'll notice I used this passage:
"this will both instruct you on means of behavior you can employ to get desired results AND teach you the hard, unbreacheable limits to your character"
Nowhere did I say you need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. I suggested only that making the ATTEMPT to the best of your capabilities is instructive as to the extent to which you can and can not achieve it. this in turn will solidify the definitional lines in your self concept by establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone. and where behavioral means lie within that comfort zone, they can henceforth be employed at will to achieve desired results.
...
would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.
lol yeah I got that. I assumed this part was irony and sarcasm but maybe you meant it too.
Edit: Your avatar makes your attempt at supervision quite amusing.this trick works best in combination with alcohol or other substances that weaken the rigidity of your sense of identity.
Last edited by Aylen; 03-28-2015 at 03:12 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Even if it is tinged with irony and sarcasm, I am bad in figuring that out.I read Krieger's post as being tinged with irony and sarcasm. Maybe I was wrong. Easier to see those things face to face.
I pretty much agree with most of what you say here though. Welcome to the forum.
Sorry if my reply offended you and I didn't mean to push you to uneviable position, but I still don't agree with you. It is not that you are wrong but I don't see your method as effective.
I agree you didn't say I need to learn optimally to behave and think like every type. However, the idea of experincing all types to establishing awareness of the boundaries of your comfort zone lack focus and which can lead to working on your weaknesses instead of your strengths so you may not reach your highest potential.
I agree using only the ego functions is not enough by itself but it must have the top priority as for your weaker function they should be developed to the good enough level since you won't master them anyway here comes the benefits of teams and friends to help you with their strengths which can be your weaknesses and that is especially true for your duals.
I just use it to help me read people better, to get an idea of their beliefs, motivations, neurosis, etc. And then it helps me decide how to deal with them, behave around them, resolve conflicts, or integrate them into parts of my life, if I think it would be a good idea to do so or I'd like to do so.
It doesn't really make things amazing or easy because I still have to take the journey myself. But it is helpful as a map or guide. Because it's a lot easier to accomplish what I want to, if I have some idea of what's going on around me.
I have a quick question on this note because it relates to my original question on how to deal with the PoLR and grow as an individual. As a Ne type, understanding potential or lack thereof seems to be one of my personal aspects. I know how far I can track trends before my Ni breaks down, and I definitely see the limits of my Ti. I remember you type as LSI (I'm not certain, correct me if I'm wrong). Could it be possible that this method of going out and testing the limits of each of your functions and their potential may actually be how you dealt with your own personal Ne PoLR and lead to a satisfied Ni HA?
I'm very interested because if so then I can build a similar action plan by moving my efforts from Ne and Ni to Fi and Fe respectfully. Creating a personalized method for dealing with Fi insecurities while satisfying my own fe hidden agenda in a similar way. All by creating a personal concrete assessment of an area that causes me stress (Fi) in a safe way.
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A lot of what has been said has been pretty helpful, I definitely get the idea that more can be done with socionics than just acceptance and understanding how yourself and others "tick" though. It's probably hilariously pipe-dreamy, and rehashed, but I feel like this can be further used to create an even fuller life experience. If unhealthy relationships can cause emotional stress, and favourable ones personal growth I definitely feel there should be a personal lesson/set of rules all types can follow to pull themselves into a "best they can be" mentality that pulls duals/favourable relationships in like a magnet or honey concoction or whatever.
Currently my life is a mix of Lead and demonstrative. I've read somewhere that individuals should create with their creative to feel fulfilling and I have personal anecdotes where it did inspire me to be better. Unfortunately I do not find many outlets or opportunities to do this in day to day life though. I'm stuck learning the Te side of things in my application based tech studies and I definitely feel the lack of really digging in to understand stuff. Although the Te information does funnel into my understanding and my mind automatically can utilize this for Ti efforts, nobody in my program is worried about the full understanding and ignore the Ti side of things. How can Ti creatives create for others in day to day life?
I think this video can help from another ILE:
he suggest to value your HA (Fe) more than not valuing your polr (Fi) and I think he is right, since I did what he suggested unknowingly (I wasn't aware of socionics at that time) that happened because I valued my IEI ex gf feelings more than I hated her drama still that was not good enough since we broke up in the end, but I guess it made me much nicer (compared to before valuing my Fi)
Last edited by OSG; 03-31-2015 at 02:31 PM.
I second the idea of satisfying the HA over the polr. Ti polr is kind of easy to improve to 2Dish (logic and/or critical thinking classes), but I definitely get further when I focus on Te. My Ne+Fi helps arrange the Te, enough to simulate 2-3D Ti. (Though it doesn't help much when communicating with Ti valuers, it does make the polr less painful.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
You sound autistic or just far off in la la land.
Seriously, using some crap theory like this is really just that.
1) Pretty irrelevant whether you say "function" or "type"would it help you understand this concept if I had gone the idiot way and said FUNCTIONS instead of types. I guarantee you if you use just you ego functions, you will not have a good life. doesn't mean you have to be able to shapeshift into your conflictor at will. just that you don't RESTRICT yourself unduly and don't let a lack of behavioral experimentation limit your options.
2) You can't really guarantee such a thing & you're being way too general
3) Behavioural experimentation without focus and specific goal is useless.
You meant Benefit relations?
No, afaik he types as LII.
I don't see Ne PoLR -as per its definition- doing such a thing btw.
No, you don't understand, if you want a fuller life experience, you need to move way past the limits of socionics theory. Take the theory just as it's stated, it's a pretty restricted one really.A lot of what has been said has been pretty helpful, I definitely get the idea that more can be done with socionics than just acceptance and understanding how yourself and others "tick" though. It's probably hilariously pipe-dreamy, and rehashed, but I feel like this can be further used to create an even fuller life experience. If unhealthy relationships can cause emotional stress, and favourable ones personal growth I definitely feel there should be a personal lesson/set of rules all types can follow to pull themselves into a "best they can be" mentality that pulls duals/favourable relationships in like a magnet or honey concoction or whatever.
When I was in a situation where Te was preferred I still utilized Ti as well. Simply meaning I processed things in a way that made sense to me. No one stops you from processing shit via Ti instead of Te if you are motivated to process in this fashion.Currently my life is a mix of Lead and demonstrative. I've read somewhere that individuals should create with their creative to feel fulfilling and I have personal anecdotes where it did inspire me to be better. Unfortunately I do not find many outlets or opportunities to do this in day to day life though. I'm stuck learning the Te side of things in my application based tech studies and I definitely feel the lack of really digging in to understand stuff. Although the Te information does funnel into my understanding and my mind automatically can utilize this for Ti efforts, nobody in my program is worried about the full understanding and ignore the Ti side of things. How can Ti creatives create for others in day to day life?
As for the question about Ti creatives, I think that's way too general too, figure out your actual problem and address that.
In my case, if I do retrospective analysis*, I find I'm better off focusing on things that are socionically categorized as Ni over Ne and also better off with Fe over Fi.. hmm... is that even fitting model A.
*: No way I would try to use this theory to affect my choices and behaviour in some completely unnatural way. It's unreliable in terms of predictive power.
Last edited by Myst; 04-01-2015 at 11:39 PM.
Not really since I don't know his type. I just called it an attempt anyway. It had the tone of an overseer who had to come in and correct something that was done wrong, when they would rather be doing something else. Fuck it, I was annoyed... not going to pretend I wasn't..
This
or thatCommon social roles
The entrepreneur or speculator who is constantly thinking of how to turn everything into money, yet continues to count pennies and make sacrifices even after he or she has become wealthy.
The job-hopper or independent contractor who is constantly changing jobs or locations in order to progress or out of a fear of stagnation, to the sacrifice of his personal life, which will be settled "some day".
The maverick politician or activist who defends positions politically unpalatable to the conventional wisdom of the time, either rising to power when his positions are later seen as correct, or remaining a niche politician with a limited number of followers.
The know-it-all windbag who has lots of information about many subjects, and helpfully or annoyingly is always ready to share it with those around him, equally ready to correct the erroneous remarks made by anyone else, always with pitiless courtesy.
No big deal. I'm over it.Common social roles
The lone repository of truth — the last stalwart in a crazy world of illogic and delusion.
The self-sacrificing workaholic who works hard, not in order to earn money, but because he doesn't want to give anything less than 100%.
Mr. or Ms. Literal, who says exactly what (s)he means, and trusts that you will too.
The book worm who spends every moment of every day reading.
The smart aleck who never lets authorities tell him what to think and always finds a way to get the last word.
The specialist who devotes every waking moment to excelling in an extremely narrow but highly competitive technical field.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
After checking through all your inputs, running themes, watching vids, thanks again. I've kind of made a rulebook to get me to open up and find accepting like quadra, let me know what you think:
1. Prefer To Verbalize Valued Elements
2. Focus on HA more than PoLR, (But less than Ego)
3. Stop consciously attempting to utilize PoLR
4. Pay attention to your HA in others before utilizing it.Testing waters with Ego first.
5. Focus on Ego Block.
6. Look for ways to create with your creative.
7. Don't be too proud to accept vocal Suggestive and offhanded PoLR help.
I've really concentrated on my base function more. I've expanded my relationship circle. I worry less about how i come off and concerned more about togetherness. I don't worry about how I look because it's something that has always worried me and judgements regarding it slid off. I don't have energy problems or problems thinking about whether I can expand energy to get thinga done because my bf is mcchill and he takes over a lot of tasks. I focus more on the health of my loved ones and make more suggeations by the way of ideas rather than getting upset.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
1.: You mean behaving as yourself? Sure that will be a good filter to remove people who don't like your stuffno matter if socionics or nonsocionics reasons
3.: I can actually give advice on that - do also put focus on your creative in place of PoLR whenever the creative is suitable way of information processing for the given issue. (Focus on HA too, sure but the creative will more effortlessly solve some issues)
6.: Still sounds like an overly general idea to me.
7.: I have to agree, it's good to not be too proud for the DS input from people with that function in their egos. Listen a bit more. Yep.
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