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Thread: Ne = ADD?

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    Default Ne = ADD?

    What's the difference?

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    I'm not even sure if I am Ne lead or I just have ADD. I think a lot of the SEEs I know have ADD too though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwiftyrickty View Post
    I'm not even sure if I am Ne lead or I just have ADD. I think a lot of the SEEs I know have ADD too though.
    Tbh, it seems like all Ne comes coupled with ADD elements, but not all ADD comes coupled with Ne.

    So, in the case of an SEE with ADD, would the perpetual distractions be more sensory than that of an Ne lead?

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    Have you looked at sluggish cognitive tempo? Researchers want to label it as concentration deficit disorder (CDD) and it would be separate from attention deficit disorder. Currently concentration deficit is labelled as ADD for the lack of better diagnosis.

    I think CDD sounds bit like Ni but could also be Ne. It just shows that there seems to be lack of proper understanding when it comes to attention and concentration.

    Anyways ADD is subcategory of ADHD and it is defined by impulsivity. CDD is defined by thinking something else. In terms of short term memory capacity CDD does not directly imply lack of short term memory but it does not utilize it in the same ways. For example it does not tackle it directly or thinks something else entirely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Have you looked at sluggish cognitive tempo? Researchers want to label it as concentration deficit disorder (CDD) and it would be separate from attention deficit disorder. Currently concentration deficit is labelled as ADD for the lack of better diagnosis.

    I think CDD sounds bit like Ni but could also be Ne. It just shows that there seems to be lack of proper understanding when it comes to attention and concentration.

    Anyways ADD is subcategory of ADHD and it is defined by impulsivity. CDD is defined by thinking something else. In terms of short term memory capacity CDD does not directly imply lack of short term memory but it does not utilize it in the same ways. For example it does not tackle it directly or thinks something else entirely.
    I knew that ADD was a subcategory of ADHD, but I didn't know about CDD.

    CDD seems to share a few symptoms with ADD, but it also creates other symptoms like sluggishness, drowsiness, and confusion. Since the focus is internal, I can see why you'd associate it with Ni. Generally, it sounds like it could correlate with INXX types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    What's the difference?
    Ne is real, ADD is a fictional disorder used to drug up young children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    Tbh, it seems like all Ne comes coupled with ADD elements, but not all ADD comes coupled with Ne.

    So, in the case of an SEE with ADD, would the perpetual distractions be more sensory than that of an Ne lead?
    Types with either -base oder -base tend to prefer a variety in perception in contrast to focus on a singular point of view.
    For me it's a mix.
    I can focus on a specific, but not always and anytime. Focusing on a single topic for a longer period of time can get quite boring for me.

    ADD might just be a label that some educators asign to people who are unwilling to focus on a single task for a certain amont of time.
    ...and I guess those educators don't value that much.

    The don't see the benefits of the ability of fast context switching or perspective switching.
    The teachers in school are forced to follow a fixed curriculum, at least in my country, which is often contraditory to what stands for.
    Teachers want to mediate the already know, is looking for novelty and new ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Ne is real, ADD is a fictional disorder used to drug up young children.
    Nope, its not.

    I have close family members who suffered immensely from ADHD, including behavioural and cognitive deficits in school.

    Stop being the anti-zeitgeist.

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    Yes, there are usually great deal of cognitive differences when it comes to AD(H)D.

    That said:
    One of the problem is that medicine is usually too compartmentalized. For example children with certain vision problems might be diagnosed with ADD and autism because they fulfill behavioral criteria on superficial level. Psychiatric is pretty poor when there is a need to judge cause and effect relations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Nope, its not.

    I have close family members who suffered immensely from ADHD, including behavioural and cognitive deficits in school.

    Stop being the anti-zeitgeist.
    Disorder is the opposite of order or regular functioning. The psychology community has next to zero understanding of the normal structure and functioning of the human mind, and it certainly has no idea what the causes or structural features of ADHD actually are, along with plenty of other "disorders".

    Is it any surprise that, when you take kids, who are naturally energetic and dislike sitting still and focusing on one thing by default, feed them crappy food, and force them to sit in a room for 7+ hours a day listening to teachers, many of whom are underpaid and aren't very engaging at all, that many of them will have trouble focusing? But by all means, if you want to feed them drugs, at least it will get rid of the "symptoms".

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    I grew up with two cousins who were dx’d ADD and they were clearly different somehow from many other kids in a way that caused them problems. No drug is a fully effective solution, so part of what the dx does for kids now is help them and their families get education support and accommodation. Saying this from the POV of having worked in schools and been part of education environments for 15 years.

    Btw I have a dx for an attention problem, and my cognitive tempo is rapid, extremely so. And I can take meds but usually don’t.

    ETA: The stimulants are considered to have a paradoxical effect—they slow down my thoughts. But they lose their effectiveness as you build up tolerance, and I am not sure whether any doc is naive or incompetent enough to think otherwise, hope not.

    And what I think this has to do with Ne is: nothing whatsoever.
    Last edited by golden; 10-09-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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    I've also known SXEs, SXIs and IXIs with ADD and I doubt there's a drug that'll make one selectively less Ne?

    a.k.a. I/O

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    If you think ADD is like Ne then you're misunderstanding one of them, most likely Ne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A child with ADHD inattentive type has most or all of following symptoms, excluding situations where these symptoms are better explained by another psychiatric or medical condition:[2][42]

    Be easily distracted, miss details, forget things, and frequently switch from one activity to another
    Have difficulty maintaining focus on one task
    Become bored with a task after only a few minutes, unless doing something they find enjoyable
    Have difficulty focusing attention on organizing or completing a task
    Have trouble completing or turning in homework assignments, often losing things (e.g., pencils, toys, assignments) needed to complete tasks or activities
    Appear not to be listening when spoken to
    Daydream, become easily confused, and move slowly
    Have difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others
    Struggle to follow instructions
    Have trouble understanding details; overlooks details

    A child with ADHD hyperactive-impulsive type has most or all of the following symptoms, excluding situations where these symptoms are better explained by another psychiatric or medical condition:[2][42]

    Fidget or squirm a great deal
    Talk nonstop
    Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight
    Have trouble sitting still during dinner, school, doing homework, and story time
    Be constantly in motion
    Have difficulty performing quiet tasks or activities
    Be impatient
    Blurt out inappropriate comments, show their emotions without restraint, and act without regard for consequences
    Have difficulty waiting for things they want or waiting their turn in games
    Often interrupt conversations or others' activities
    The inattentive type seems more like excess Ne, the hyperactive-impulsive type is more like Se with some Fe. Not that they are necessarily correlated with the position of those elements in Model A.

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    I remember my time spent on forums such as PerC. The association between Ne and ADHD was almost taken for granted.
    God those forums were bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The inattentive type seems more like excess Ne, the hyperactive-impulsive type is more like Se with some Fe. Not that they are necessarily correlated with the position of those elements in Model A.
    Yeah, the SEEs I know all have ADHD, I fit the description of plain ADD better. I have horrible listening skills and I'm very inattentive overall. They tried to diagnose me as ADD all my childhood and I kinda thought it was bullshit at the time and just chalked it up to personality but lately I'm starting to wonder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    Tbh, it seems like all Ne comes coupled with ADD elements, but not all ADD comes coupled with Ne.

    So, in the case of an SEE with ADD, would the perpetual distractions be more sensory than that of an Ne lead?
    I'm not sure what it's like for SEEs but I'm usually just distracted by my own thoughts which usually have nothing to do with what's happening at the moment. And I've always had little side projects that I'm secretly working on or at least contemplating while ignoring what I'm supposed to be doing. In grade school they were always turning my desk around so I couldn't play around in there during class, or moving me to the front so I didn't get distracted and the teacher could keep an eye on what I was doing.
    Last edited by schwiftyrickty; 10-10-2018 at 03:55 AM.
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    I also know an LSE with severe ADHD and you would never confuse her for any other type. My ESE stepsister as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Btw I have a dx for an attention problem, and my cognitive tempo is rapid, extremely so. And I can take meds but usually don’t.
    SCT refers to "do as I say" kind of tempo or it is not goal driven but it can be for AH(H)D as well. Anyways, if person is rational daydreaming and and other kinds irrational behavior (no goals) will be kept as minimal as possible.
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    ADD / ADHD seems to be prevalent in mostly Se egos, because sitting still in class and listening endlessly makes them restless, to a certain extent should also be prevalent in Ne lead (maybe)

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    ADD/ADHD = Exxp

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    Nope just Adhd..

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    People with ADD often or usually (?) can focus well, sometimes better than other people (hyperfocus), but only if they are truly interested in the thing focused on. So some wiggly little kids may get the dx because they don’t have the disposition to deal with being stuck in desks, but that’s not necessarily the same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    People with ADD often or usually (?) can focus well, sometimes better than other people (hyperfocus), but only if they are truly interested in the thing focused on.
    Based on that definition ADD also applies to me... because I've a hard time keep focused on tasks I have to do but not really being interested in. ...but I'm interested in a lot of things, so I can focus if I want to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Based on that definition ADD also applies to me... because I've a hard time keep focused on tasks I have to do but not really being interested in. ...but I'm interested in a lot of things, so I can focus if I want to.
    Is it a severe enough problem to cause you significant distress, such as doing a job or going to school?
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Is it a severe enough problem to cause you significant distress, such as doing a job...
    It depends on the jobs. If the task are mentally challenging then I can focus without a problem. Tasks that I perceive as boring are problematic for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    ...or going to school?
    I'm way out of the age for the basic school education. More likely for me to be a teacher than a student.
    And I guess that 4 of 5 members of this board are younger than I'm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    It depends on the jobs. If the task are mentally challenging then I can focus without a problem. Tasks that I perceive as boring are problematic for me.


    I'm way out of the age for the basic school education. More likely for me to be a teacher than a student.
    And I guess that 4 of 5 members of this board are younger than I'm.
    It sounds like you are opbored by things that do not engage your intellect and that this may fall within the range of normal.

    If there are things you need or want to do and consistently cannot, in a way that causes you distress or that prevents you from functioning in life in the way you need to, and you have other symptoms of ADD as well, it is more possible it could have clinical significance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    People with ADD often or usually (?) can focus well, sometimes better than other people (hyperfocus), but only if they are truly interested in the thing focused on. So some wiggly little kids may get the dx because they don’t have the disposition to deal with being stuck in desks, but that’s not necessarily the same thing.
    This is also a typical characteristic of Ne in socionics...

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    I’m SEE with pretty bad ADHD. I was always annoyed by this idea in personality forums that Ne = ADHD. And yeah, AD/HD is real - most of you just know the superficial symptoms. There’s also stuff like rejection sensitive dysphoria (exactly what it says on the tin; think of all the ADHD kids who throw fits when their peers make them feel rejected - yeah that’s how I am now as an adult except I keep it under wraps), hyperfocusing on certain things, overstimulation, issues with impulse, anger, relationships, procrastinating things for literal months, bouncing your leg and eating your nails like your life depends on it , etc.

    ADHD is a neurodivergence making us different from neurotypical people in the same way that the autism spectrum is a neurodivergence. Our brains are different and it’s not fake it’s just overdiagnosed and misdiagnosed.

    Medication isn’t always the answer or a perfect answer but right now I’m unmedicated and my life is a total mess. Kind of fun, but still extremely messy and it interferes with things. I’m just too embarrassed to get help with it.
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    There are several neuro psychological tests online for example Wisconsin card sorting: https://www.psytoolkit.org/experiment-library/wcst.html
    People with real attention and concentration issues tend do poorly on this test.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15533695
    You'll find more information online.
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    I'm LIE-Te with 4D Ne, and if I'm bored as hell with what I'm doing, I can be distracted in a heartbeat. I don't think I quality for ADD or ADHD, though.

    I do, however, focus on tasks using stimulants (coffee). I believe one of the ways doctors calm down hyperactive kids is by giving them a stimulant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This is also a typical characteristic of Ne in socionics...
    I really doubt it’s the same thing. It might look the same externally, but I think it probably has a different underlying set of mechanisms. And this is only one aspect of ADD, which I pointed out because there are so many assumptions in this thread about what ADD is, including that it’s a simple inability to pay attention to things in a blanket way.

    I haven’t read it in a while, but this is a not-bad book that peels away the surface layer to get at some of what’s going on:

    https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distra...8-7&ref=sr_1_7
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    I think I get distracted because everything thing I look at or read makes me return to my head for some reason.. I know I can read but it takes like 30 minutes of forcing myself to finally get into the "actually reading" phase. But I don't think that might be distraction since I eventually get to the point where I can.. more just I have an overactive mind.

    I spend so much time in my head I'd just rather do something instead of read or pay attention to things. Like working out or going to a party.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hag 3 View Post
    I think I get distracted because everything thing I look at or read makes me return to my head for some reason.. I know I can read but it takes like 30 minutes of forcing myself to finally get into the "actually reading" phase. But I don't think that might be distraction since I eventually get to the point where I can.. more just I have an overactive mind.

    I spend so much time in my head I'd just rather do something instead of read or pay attention to things. Like working out or going to a party.
    Maybe youre Se ego

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    Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in adulthood is conceptualized as originating in childhood. Despite considerable theoretical interest, little is known about how ADHD symptoms relate to normal personality traits in adults. In 6 studies, the Big Five personality dimensions were related to ADHD symptoms that adults both recalled from childhood and reported concurrently (total N  1,620). Substantial effects emerged that were replicated across samples. First, the ADHD symptom cluster of inattention-disorganization was substantially related to low Conscientiousness and, to a lesser extent, Neuroticism. Second, ADHD symptom clusters of hyperactivity-impulsivity and oppositional childhood and adult behaviors were associated with low Agreeableness. Results were replicated with self-reports and observer reports of personality in community and clinical samples. Findings support theoretical connections between personality traits and ADHD symptoms
    Big Five Dimensions and ADHD Symptoms: Links Between Personality Traits and Clinical Symptoms
    Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 2002, Vol. 83, No. 2, 451–469

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    ADHD reminds P, not Ne specifics

    there are criterions for this diagnosis. not many ones having P or Ne lead will fit it

    Quote Originally Posted by schwiftyrickty View Post
    I'm not even sure if I am Ne lead or I just have ADD
    you are closer to ESE

  38. #38
    WinnieW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It sounds like you are opbored by things that do not engage your intellect and that this may fall within the range of normal.
    I agree with you in this point, but the difference might be the more you value intuition to sensing the more you value introspection... and while introspecting you pay less attention to what's happening around you in the real world.

    ADD might simply be the preference to follow own instincts... I wonder if ADD can also aply to types with -ego. is an introspecting function, either.

    My hypothesis:
    ADD and ADHD might be caused by an imbalance of an extraverted perception function and an introverted judgement function.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    If there are things you need or want to do and consistently cannot, in a way that causes you distress or that prevents you from functioning in life in the way you need to, and you have other symptoms of ADD as well, it is more possible it could have clinical significance.

    Imo. Not a doctor.
    I'm not a doctor either, but I agree with you in this matter.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 10-10-2018 at 08:27 PM.

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    ADD= IEI ILI LII EII
    ADHD= SLE ILE SEE IEE

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