My personality and social proclivities are practically set in stone at this point. I don’t have the youthful optimism, lust for life or naivety to effect any positive momentum in my life In my current state—I’ve seen everything life has to offer people like me and know too much. Plastic surgery’s easier and more effective
Last edited by Averroes; 01-10-2020 at 03:40 AM.
LOL
Inner duals are good predictors of what types may do on impulse. LIE seems to top EIE as an aggressive, conquering spirit even though both can be equally ambitious and want to control things. EIEs seem to prefer more assurance of success before committing, and are less overt and far more diplomatic although they may desire the same thing......Originally Posted by Adam Strange
a.k.a. I/O
Well I don't mean to sugar coat things but 1% is better than 0% right? Means there is still heterosexual hope for you. Even if it was only .3% ... still better than what some men have.I’m pretty comfortable physically escalating once attraction’s been established, but I’m very hesitant to approach or ask girls out because I’m aware that I appeal to 1% of the female population, tops.
Maybe it will help make it feel all the more special when you do find the right woman. /overly idealistic rainbow IEI eyes.
I am a gay man and I don't like being a gay best friend either only because you are looked down at too much in that role, even if you are gay and funny.Like me. You are treated as an accessory and emotional tampon and not really even like a person with your own views and feelings. They also rant about their life narcissistically to you- but they don't ever really want to hear about yours. They also don't even really like gay men tbh they just like to steal our empathy. If somebody is going to be my fag hag, I want it to be more equal than that. Not sure this sort of thing would send me to a psychotic murderous rage like it does in some str8 males though- as the dynamics are inherently different but I can't imagine actually liking to be treated that way.
I don't even see real women treat gay guys like that much IRL- but I see it on TV a lot for some reason. Illuminati mind control? Some narcissistic women IRL probably treat gay guys like that because TV makes it okay for them to do so.
I've noticed this too tbh, and i'm weary i might fall into it myself, like i have to practice self-awareness to step back from that type of dynamic. I dunno what it is about it, maybe it's become so 'established' in pop culture and the like, like some sort of easy schema or 'blueprint' of sorts. i dunno
Well I don't mean to sugar coat things but 1% is better than 0% right? Means there is still heterosexual hope for you. Even if it was only .3% ... still better than what some men have.
I am a gay man and I don't like being a gay best friend either only because you are looked down at too much in that role, even if you are gay and funny.
Aw @Delilah I never felt you treated me this way. But yeah idk I think people in general follow stuff they see on TV way too much for good or bad. It is a bit creepy to me but whatever.
Well I guess in some ways... gay males aren't as harsh as str8 men and that makes us better listeners or whatever. But yea I'm not really into being anybody's emotional sponge. Just gets draining after awhile.
I was talking to a lesbian ESI-Se the other day about Se and aggression. She's 26, weighs about 130, is in perfect health and is an ex-Lacrosse player and she teaches self-defense classes for women.
I was comparing her Se to my own (Hers is better) and to that of an SLE I've hired to do some work for me. The SLE spent ten years in prison for armed robbery, lifting weights and he now has the dead eyes of a killer, but he's basically a pretty typical SLE-Se otherwise. I told her that his Se is so strong that he'd wipe the floor with her.
"I don't know," she said. "I think I could take him."
Lol. Supervision is so good at overestimating one's position and devaluing the Supervisee's.
In any case, the conversation moved on to erotic attitudes. I thought that she, as an aggressor, would be aggressive in her romantic relationships. But she said no, she prefers to let the other woman approach her.
Let me say that she often looks like an SEE, but if you are around her enough, you can see that she's really an introvert. At least, I see this.
I said to her, "Really? In your relationships, who is it that does the approaching?" I was trying to get her to say that she did, but she paused to think about it.
She finally replied, "It's very self-affirming to be approached. It does away with all doubts."
And I actually do think that other women approach her. She displays herself as a model of health and beauty and strength, and I've seen how some women look at her. Yes, they approach first.
I guess this is a clue for how I should approach ESIs.
As the Erotic Attitudes article says, LIEs are Aggressors in Life and Victims in romance, and of the four Aggressor-Victim Duals, the ESI-LIE duality is the most evenly matched for aggression. The duality is kind of Switch, I'd say.*
I've been pretty neutral with ESIs so far, but it seems as if that is not what my Duals are looking for. Instead, they appear to place themselves in front of me, say "How can you possibly resist all this?", and want me to make the first move.
*I'd say that the difference in Aggression-Victimhood goes as follows: (SLE-----|-----IEI), (SEE---|---ILI), (LSI--|--EIE), and (ESI-|-LIE).
Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-25-2021 at 12:46 PM.
@Adam Strange
Would it really be a fair fight tho even if he was the supervisor? I'd bet on the man either way even though I like the 'tough dyke' trope. Lesbians are still women after all. A more fair fight would be her and a SLE woman probably.
I mean I have no doubt whatsoever many women could easily beat me up lol but I think in general sexual dimorphiisim is still very much a thing. I read this interesting book once called 'The frality myth about female physical strength. It had a lot of valued Te in it I think. But I don't think anybody thinks of women as 'fragile'- they just clearly aren't as physically strong as men. To be as tough as a man they would have to basically turn into a man themselves muscle mass wise.
This reminds me of something I saw in the Rizzoli & Isles show. There was this nerdy beta guy that was suspected for murder and the female cop was like 'she could kick his ass!' trying to make him feel bad about himself and his weak beta male ways while at the same time make this PC message about female empowerment. But yeah so what? A tween-ish 12-year-old girl can beat up a lot of wimpy dudes- it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean she could do that against a real macho Chad anyway so if some women feel empowered by that to be honest they are just proud of being bullies.
Not a very PC thing to say and feminazis want to drop an anvil on me, but whatever.
Read this story about how a guy got 50 years in prison or something because he raped a lesbian trying to turn her into a 'real woman.' Sick bastard. We don't see eye to eye that often Te authority people but go get 'em tiger! ((since I like the lesbian community a lot I think he should have gotten more or even the death penalty maybe but whatever...))
Yeah maybe she didn't take Te self-defense classes but I have my doubts in a real scenerio they would do much good and a real abuser would just laugh at her trying to defend herself anyway while he had his way with her. I read this story of an Unhealthy SLE bully who would beat up a bunch of people and laugh at how they took self-defense courses and what a horrible monster he was, he would just laugh at what color belt they got and easily beat them up etc. He seemed to genuinely feel bad for the way he acted- but also like he was bragging too lol.
This is why women need to be protected in society from crap like that instead of make-believing we can fix everything by turning them into Vampire Slayers because "Super Strength" isn't real and ignoring physical reality doesn't really work.
@BandD, I've found that a lot of women are a lot stronger than I first assume. My SLI-Te ex was extremely strong, despite having stick-figure arms.
The ESI-Se isn't a weakling, but from what I saw, she might be able to lift about 60% of what I can. This leads me to believe that she is over-estimating her strength and is underestimating how much sheer mass matters. And most guys mass more than most women.
But I hope she's never dissuaded from her beliefs.
IDK I think EJs are probably the least victim-looking. I am an EIE so I am more controlling of the emotional and relational aspects of the relationships.
I'm also a guy and there are societal expectations there.
But I will also say that there is no doubt who the real boss is in the relationship lol.
EDIT: I should probably talk more about IJ aggressors and not myself lol.
I'll try to keep it gender-neutral, but this is all painted by my own experience. They are pretty controlling, but EJs seem ok with this. They tend to be uncompromising in what they want (Ne-PoLR).
They are very possessive and onerous once you get in a relationship. But they aren't all clingy. I see female IJ aggressors as feline-like, male ones would probably be like wolves or something.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
Lol I've heard SLEs do stuff like this so often.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
ESI-Se Aggressor.
https://imgur.com/gallery/7oD92Ii
Avril Lavinge (LSI):
Music videos are obviously heavily edited and such, but I think this is still a good exaggerated depiction of "LSIness."
Some lyrics:
Some themes are an intense dislike of "complication" or "fakeness" (Ne PoLR), quick expression of frustration, enjoyment of struggles and "fighting," at the same time an inclination to "lay back/chill out --" the mindset is toward rationally understanding everything, including relationships. "There's no need to get confused about them" is the idea.Why do you have to go and make things so complicated?
I see the way you're acting like you're somebody else
Gets me frustrated
You fall, and you crawl, and you break
And you take what you get, and you turn it into honesty
Promise me I'm never gonna find you fake it
...
Chill out, what you yelling for?
Lay back, it's all been done before
And if you could only let it be
You would see
Seems odd to describe her as someone rational about relationships when other songs are taken into account.
I don't honestly know too much about her other music, lol; I just had seen that music video before. What are her other songs like?
So I watched the next two other music videos Themtube recommended to me to compare, "Girlfriend" and "My Happy Ending," and they seem in line with the above. In Girlfriend she lays out a very persuasive case for why she should be the interest's girlfriend, lol. My Happy Ending is harder for me to get much from except maybe the "Let's talk this over" line which I think might be a characteristically LxI approach to angry breakups.
Are other songs much different?
Avril is notoriously a self-loathing emo wreck, to the point of it being the downfall of her career. She's filled with envy and throws a lot of pity parties. Pretty typical E4.
That said, I don't think Logical types = rational and Ethical types = irrational to begin with. If anything, I think Ethical types tend to be more rational than Logical types when it comes to relationships and human dynamics. More comfortable navigating that realm, tend to know how to handle that realm more, understand it better; SLEs, for example, seem notoriously overwhelmed by relationship dynamics. I've repeatedly seen them more prone to fear and anxiety in relationship situations than ESIs. They also do things such as confusing fear for gut feelings, thus behaving irrationally and being paranoid. My argument isn't so much about her type, it's about calling her rational.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 07-11-2022 at 05:11 AM.
Emotional obliviousness equates to being more controlled by your emotions, thus being more irrational. People who are highly attuned to what they feel have the capacity to regulate their emotions better. Keyword is capacity.
Teasing and flirting, which my target may or may not register as "she is interested."
Used to turn on the magnet, but found that doesn't always give me lasting reciprocation, so now I stopped using that because I want to see initiative from them to know they're sincerely into me without my influence.
With my LIE, I picked on him a lot. Called him my cute little puppy and patted him on the head, that kind of degrading shit I expected a "hey, fuck you," in reaction to.
Edit:
At some point, I will just flat out say "I like you."
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 07-11-2022 at 07:24 AM.
Well, she does seem unhealthy. I have a (male) cousin she reminds me a lot of. I just don't think healthiness = rationality. What type do you think she is?
Regarding emo stuff, women are usually more expressive than men regardless of type. My guess is that a woman is necessarily more "emotional" than a man of the same type internally. You just see more of it, which is why there's a bias toward typing women as F and men as T. But she really doesn't look like an F type to me. I don't know much about her aside from VI which is hard to explain, but the way she looks at people is not the way F types look at people. IMO. And if what you say about her being self-loathing and spiraling downward is true, I'd think that would also support T > F. F types have greater ability to handle their feelings; T types can't control them so well. The main exception I can think of is when drugs/other addictions are involved.
Rational types I also think can be more destructive, at least in the long term. Irrational functions seem to be less conscious, so irrationals are better at quickly adapting to different situations at the expense of less focus. Rational types have to make what they do accord with a relatively much more conscious understanding of things, which allows more focus even when parts of them are screaming that something is a bad decision, while irrationals' trouble is more from slipping into bad habits than intentionally setting their minds at something destructive. So you have stereotypes of SEEs being con artists and SLEs committing crimes and whatnot, but you're more likely to get really horrific stories about an EIE. Obviously this is a big generalization. And again drugs change things. But I don't think "self-loathing emo wreck" points necessarily at irrationality.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that she looks like a rational T + Se-ego (I'd guess that one's obvious?) so that should only leave LSI.
Edit:
Emotional obliviousness equates to being more controlled by your emotions, thus being more irrational. People who are highly attuned to what they feel have the capacity to regulate their emotions better. Keyword is capacity
Ok, I didn't see this. Just to be clear, are we on the same page about what "rationality" means? I don't know that being N or S base makes you more "controlled by" your emotions than T or F bases. I agree F bases can regulate their emotions better than other types, but I don't know that F-creatives are worse at it than T-base are.
Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 07-11-2022 at 07:42 AM.
"Define irrational/rational"
Oops.
I initiated conversation with my ESI ex, and it was on a website I only planned to visit once, since I thought it was weird. We had a conversation on a public server, then she decides to invite me to her private server to keep talking, we had a good conversation and got to know each other and she starts sending me blowing kiss emoji things. At the end of the conversation I just planned to log out and never use the account again but then she goes "Hey! Are you getting back on tomorrow! Here add me to your friendslist!" like she insisted. All of the sudden I'm on the site everyday for 5 months straight talking to this girl. We flirted sometimes but I never thought you could really like someone over the internet. This was way before online dating was normal, it was for like nerdy WoW players. Then one day she just asks me "So when are you gonna ask me to be your girlfriend?". It was weird to me but deep down I knew something was real between us even though we had no guide about how to do this boyfriend/girlfriend thing over the internet, it seemed weird, but like our nerdy little secret or something. So she got the ball rolling technically.
Then things escalated to cellphones, when you had limited text messages lol, then instant messenger. Then 6 years go by and we texted each other from time to time but we were no longer "dating". Then after a long time of not talking, where I almost forgot about her, she texts me out of the blue "Hey I lost your number, send it to me again." Her phone got washed in the washing machine. All of the sudden she is texting me hardcore, sending me pictures saying she's gonna be in my area for a few days (we never met in person before). It used to be like picking teeth trying to get pictures from her, just regular ones, now she was all about it even the naughty pics, talking about "I want you to see me.". Then when she finally comes into my town, she lived real far, I did some uber romantic shit. I got out of my introverted shell to collaborate with her hotel receptionist to set up a scavenger hunt where the receptionist would ask her for a password (a special word I amde up that was an inside joke between me and her), and once she gave the password the receptionist would give her a clue to my location at the hotel. When she finally found me it was nuts, this chick I met online 6 years ago in the flesh. She was super petite and kinda awkward but the feelings were real and intense. Just watch any LDR meeting for the first time on youtube, and as corny as it looks (me and her used to joke that we would never do what those people on those videos), that's exactly how it felt.
The days she stayed were just surreal almost, I cried after she left. She brought friends with her so we weren't always alone but it was on like donkey kong and she definitely was the aggressor. I've done PDA that I'm not proud of.
Sorry for my comment, btw. Tried to erase before you saw it because I realized it was completely unnecessary, rude, etc. I feel pretty bad about saying it.
No problem my friend.
Introverted Se valuers be like
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