Do you think intertype romantic relationships require at least one thinker (either lead or creative) with one feeler (either lead or creative) for long-term success/happiness?
Balance of T/F in intertype romantic relationships
Do you think intertype romantic relationships require at least one thinker (either lead or creative) with one feeler (either lead or creative) for long-term success/happiness?
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-02-2020 at 09:01 PM.
Semidual and Illusory switch in Irrationals.Originally Posted by sorrows
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Doubtful. My dad is an LSE and my mom is an LIE and they've been married over 30 years. I can't say they're the happiest couple, but by that point, who is? All definitions of "success" considered, something's kept them together for this long.
I think sometimes people want certain kinds of relationships due to non-socionics personality traits or circumstances. I could see, for instance, an activity pairing finding a lot of success if the people involved feel the need to do more with their lives. If they are also lazy by default, the activity pairing could work long-term.
Last edited by Desert Financial; 12-26-2017 at 01:10 AM.
My parents are LSE mom and SLI dad (Mirrors) and things were pretty f*cking chilly when I was growing up. But they are still together. They functioned together pretty well, but both of them came from troubled childhoods so they might not have been the best judges of "pretty well".
Weirdly enough, my LSE mother has an IEE childhood friend who was married to an SLI. A few years after the IEE's husband died, my parents went out to visit the IEE at her home in Denver. I have a picture from that visit. The IEE is sitting at the table with a big smile on her face and her skirt hiked up, my SLI father is sitting next to her, smiling like an idiot (which he most certainly is not), and my mother is next in line, looking seriously confused and pissed off.
My father speaks of the EII with incredible fondness. I'm not even sure he knows how his voice changes when he mentions her. He sounds younger, more enthusiastic.
They never went back, since my mother rules the household.
Now that my mother has Alzheimer's, I've encouraged my father to contact the IEE, just to let her know how her old childhood friend is doing, and to give my father a ray of hope that there is life after his spouse.
*EDIT* There were no feelers anywhere in my family. Only thinkers. I'm only now beginning to see how this has affected me and my choices of the people whom I hang out with. And it's not good.
So, you don't NEED to have a thinker and a feeler for long term success, if you define "success" narrowly enough.
"They were together and inseparable for thirty years. Then the warden pardoned one of them."
What if people with ingrained masochistic tendencies enjoy relationships with their conflictors?
sounds like he's saying the experience of semi duality is actually the experience of shared rational functions (and) not perceptual ones. in other words, what makes "semi dual" semi dual is how the rational functions jive, with the "semi" in the negative being the differing perception, i.e.: semi dual is sharing judgement axes and "falling out" over differing perceptions--the base/creative positioning not really being as important. its a good idea but from the point of view of a rational type I'm inclined to agree simply because that's been my personal experience and associations to semi duality
A mix of T/F in relationships that are not in the same quadra will definitely score lower than all intra-quadral relationships, whether T/T, T/F or F/F.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Afaik, long-term success is not dependent on a T-F match, though a lot of long-term couples do have it... Could simply have something to do with most straight men being T, and most straight men being F.
At the end of the day, the specific ITR matters the most, though I have noticed this trend of IxTx-IxTx individuals rarely being together a long time, especially ISTx. LSI-LSI couples seem to be one of the rarest ones, even though Identity is a rather good ITR (in comparison to several others). I am assuming it is the lack of Ethics in the relationship, and LSIs are Ethics seeking, so... LSIs almost always end up with an Ethical ime, and if they do end up with a Logical it is usually an ExTx type, not a fellow IxTx. INTx-INTx is not a common match either, but the INTx typically delights more in being with an Identical who shares their unique views on the world etc. INTx-ISTx seems to be around just as rare as ISTx-ISTx.
Anyhow, so I'd say that overall F-T matching does not matter as much in the grand scheme of things (e.g there are plenty of ExFx-IxFx long term couples out there), but certain types of people tend to be more drawn to F types (particularly male LSIs).
Semi dual matches the 1 & 5 function. So for you Fe and Ti, will both be the same but switched in the Semi. In an irrational those 2 functions are perceiving elements.
In Illusory it'll be Si and Ne for you, matching the 2 & 6 functions, and Two judgement elements in an irrational.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Some relationships, like duality, are not only T/F but they actually match the functions. Like creative Fe/Ti. So the T/F relationships differ greatly. So it's difficult to sort this out.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
For most relationships to be long lasting, each partner has to provide things that the other partner deems valuable and perhaps hard to obtain; few do something for nothing. People may show symbols of romance over their entire lifetime but true romance has a half life of about two years so a lasting romance is an oxymoron; therefore, relationships have to also have strong practical glue to keep them together. A balance of T/F has a practical aspect as would be for a N/S balance but there are many other issues that could better strengthen a long-term contract.........
a.k.a. I/O
For most relationships to be long lasting, each partner has to provide things that the other partner deems valuable and perhaps hard to obtain; few do something for nothing. People may show symbols of romance over their entire lifetime but true romance has a half life of about two years so a lasting romance is an oxymoron; therefore, relationships have to also have strong practical glue to keep them together. A balance of T/F has a practical aspect as would be for a N/S balance but there are many other issues that could better strengthen a long-term contract.........
a.k.a. I/O
This, in my opinion, is the foundation for strong relationships. There need to be shared goals and practical, mutual support.
I'd say the half-life of romance is one year, based on several "romances" I've observed and experienced. One year for the honeymoon phase and to realize that all is not right in Kansas, and one year to extricate yourself from a relationship which, despite your initial high hopes and sworn promises, is increasingly contentious.
The best relationship I have right now is probably with an EII semi-dual secretary of seven years. While there is no romance, she is supportive by giving me great practical business advice and she sends me Get Well wishes when I'm sick. I'm not sure what she gets from me, other than my appreciation and my attempts to be supportive. So it is true that long lasting relationships don't need romance.
Although romance is high on my list of wants.
Extreme f/t differences are not recommended. I think similar is better, maybe one being slighly more t or f than the other, but not necessarily T and F.
In my experience, there's an element of attraction towards complementary temperaments which can go beyond the T/F divide - up to a point, at least. People can mask for their superego and provide assistance via their role function, and complementary energy levels are quite important when dealing with everyday matters - it can be easier for me to deal with LIIs than with SEEs when we're organizing something.
However, if a dual comes around, it's going to be hard for the person to resist to the "pull" of their dual-seeking and hidden agenda.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I imagine this makes more sense for rational types. I would much rather be with an SEI than ILI for example. Also as a straight, ethical male, it's difficult to find logical females so it's not really something I prioritize. I will pretty much settle for my semi dual every time since my social circle is crawling with them and we get along well.
Yes it's a need. Feelers + feelers doesn't work ; just create drama
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