Why are we initially more attracted to our semi-duals than to our duals?
Semi-dual vs Dual Attraction
Why are we initially more attracted to our semi-duals than to our duals?
Because their mobilzing is your PoLR and there is a love hate with the PoLR, it is literally polarizing, as the person with your PoLR could literally look perfect in your eyes or the least interesting person on earth.
More passion? Conversations can be quite deep and rich. They are more similar to you so your understanding of each other is arguably more authentic. Duality can feel like we are characters making up a script as we go along. It’s more playful. Semi-duality can feel more earnest.
Duals are very different so it can take time to feel comfortable around each other. I think this can happen with semi-duals too though.
Semi-duals are like that crush you had that was too unrealistic to ever come to anything substantial. But it works. (Sometimes)
edit: I think semi-duality is described as ‘exquisite’ in the descriptions..
A life with a semi-dual sounds happy?? I think the reason celebs marry duals is because it helps them cope with fame and achieve more fame. There are probably lots of ordinary people with semi-duals.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 09-26-2022 at 12:15 PM.
we're not
Semi-dual is easier to start and an easier ITR overall. It doesn't have the potentially extreme mechanics of duality. Also, as per Model B, semi duals are very similar, having the same PoLR. This can cause the relation to be too insular, where there is practically missing an aspect of reality. Duals sometimes seem like something alien/weird that takes a while to get accustomed to. But if it's too much, then maybe either you or them is mistyped.
For friends is very good semi-duality.
I once saw a very passionate love affair between a LIE-Ni and an EII-Ne in some show (The 4400), but since it is fictional, and it has never happened to me, I don't know actually how common it is.
I don't think these types can really convince the other.Originally Posted by lavos
From my limited experience LIE will try to motivate EII towards accomplishing their highest potential (Ni goal) by telling them to Se their ass off to make it happen. But the advice won't be taken because even though the EII can see the LIE's advice is the obvious and most absolute way to get the Ni goal done, the EII isn't trying to Se their way through a wall either (because they know their limits, and the advice sounds like the EII would have to be a "maniac" (3-4D Se) to pull off what the LIE is saying) but they are looking for advice to get things done in an Si -Te convenient and easier way (which are probably dirty words to LIE) to accomplish their goals. And I honestly don't know how this works the other way around, maybe EII suggesting LIE takes a break, relax more do something the easy way or something, and all that just sounds too, idk, un-engaging and un-thrilling and lazy to an LIE?
Example an LIE said he told his EII friend who wanted to be a writer that she needs to write for 10 years and then she'll become a great writer. I mean yes of course, but who the hell wants to hear "In 10 years then you'll realize you dreams."? She wants to know some tips and tricks to improve her writing now and maybe be much better in the next couple years, not in the great distant 10-years-from-now future.
I went to an LIE about dating advice of all things lol, and you know what it turned into, career advice lol. And at the end of it she pretty much told me, "What do you mean you think you don't have time to date right now? I know someone whose running 5 youtube channels, working full time and in school and still has time to date!" I was shocked she expected me to live up to all of that. If I was ESI though maybe I'd pull up my belt and get er done. At the end of it she just thought I was being lazy and I thought she was asking me to be a maniac. We didn't get across to each other and the conversation just ended. Sometimes I can feel guilty for just sitting around when I'm around semi-duals, like why aren't I GOING OUT AND GETTING IT! Even if they've said nothing, just the echoes of my Se PoLR.
and the advice isn't always "Grind hard!" sometimes the advice is "just do X", but no instructions on how X is done, and there's alot of confusion and frustration on the face of the LIE when you don't know how to just do X and want further instructions, they feel like why are you still here asking for an answer I already gave you instead of going out there and doing it. The LSE will literally hand you a step by step excel sheet, which, as crazy as that sounds, is what the EII is hoping for lol.
That's how it looks from my EII perspective anyway. But who knows I've only dealt with less than a handful of LIEs. I def think their aim to try to get to the heart of a person, help them realize their greatest potential, and point them in the right direction and say go! is more suited for ESI.
Dunno. I can hand out step-by-step instructions. Your post seems more like a surface interaction between LIE (and pretty stereotypical LIE's, if even) and EIIs (?), not a love-affair type of interaction. In surface interaction, EII-LIE works well, in fact my best friends during many years was an EII-Ne. But what I wonder is if, assuming there are present other factors like enneagram stacking compatibility (and other stuff) some sort of love affair can happen and it can be good like with the Dual. I suspect it is possible. One thing though, to answer the OP^, I normally don't feel more attracted to EIIs than ESIs. It's like they have something "missing". But when we get down to actually interacting, it goes just (very) fine.
In my case, a shared ethical type understands my vulnerabilities a bit better and how to protect them. SEEs know how to be nice to me. Although I've appreciated when SLEs stood up for me, its also when I wasn't even hurt I was kinda aloof cuz of Ni and didn't even realize people were bothering me. (and those same SLEs are just as likely to be bullies to me too the second I say or do something they don't like or disagree with, so as much as I idealized that they were 'my tank' I also was never completely naive to how they really were either...)
SEEs seem to understand that treating others wrong is well, wrong- and that's why we get along. Like I said, the only thing I don't like about SEEs is how they appeal too much to normies even if they secretly agree with me more; they often don't have the balls to show this or pick sides- so they kinda are romantic with me underground but in public- they are too concerned with what Te thinks of them. But this is to be expected as they do value Te. SEEs are a lot like IEIs anyway, I always joke that SEEs are just IEIs who've decided to leave the house and become preppies.
It *is* more friend zone-y because part of romance and love is kind of that masochistic prayer that u can make a logical type kinder, and a sadistic battle cry that u can make an ethical type tougher. I know SEEs really care for me in some respects, even if it's in a kind of a manipulative way - it's hard to feel that way about SLEs. There is just natural affection with semi duals that's missing with duality. But in the end duality works better because of the logistics of everything. ((in theory I mean, socionics might be BS in a lot of ways)) Ethicals get their heart involved too much- and are like 'ooh, my dual!' (and of course logical type duals do this too to some extent as they have at least one ethical function that's two dimensional) but it's really working for non heartfelt reasons, I think.
I've seen LIE think step by step instructions seems like hand holding sometimes, which it ultimately is. But this has been my experience with EIE too, tries to motivate you to realize your greatest potential and says you gotta bust your ass to get it. But because EIE is Fe and not Te lead they are more about inspiring (believe in yourself) instead of concrete advice (put in the work and reap the reward). But yea I haven't had any long term friendships with LIE but that's been my experience when things do get personal and more serious, they want to know what you really want out of life, your core desire and that gives them something to help you aim at and get, of course idk if that's all LIEs, just the trend I've seen. And I think ESI works tirelessy and thinks eventually they will get where they want to get, but the LIE can help them do the best actions (work smarter) instead of just toiling away and not knowing if you are getting any closer.
On surface level it can be chill tho, but I do think things can break down when it comes to general outlook on life, it can seem like LIE has a "life is war and you have to fight" approach to life, at least that's what it seems like to me sometimes, maybe this is type 8, and it's just so different from my own outlook. Tbh the restlessness of some LIEs sometimes makes me secondhand exhausted lol, like I said before, I end up feeling like what I am doing isn't enough, and for no reason, or if I am doing something I'm not taking the "best" steps, I feel extra airheaded around LIE simply because I value Ne and am not thinking a step ahead, but my mind is just wandering in a realm of multiple possibilities that seem more interesting than what the LIE may have told me to focus on, frustration on both sides, I wanna see all the possibilities and LIE wants to get to the best.
Plus you got victim and infantile romance style which well, I can say infantile romance style just doesn't work on victim from what I've seen, especially contact subtype infantile, they are gonna try to Ne your Si, which you don't value, and your Ni is probably just gonna see all that as silly games and ignore it to see what they really want, while the infantile is hoping you see the Ne as impressive.
Anyway, I've heard it works I just don't know what works about it.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 09-27-2022 at 06:06 AM.
I think @Lord Pixel has explained it for Semi-Dual but for reasons you may not like your Dual, maybe because of their Demonstrative function as they are constantly pushing your PoLR to move, and although this action was never meant to hurt, You prefer to think of it as something you find annoying or uncomfortable. However, this form of interpersonal relationship is necessarily meant to develop it, if anything.
Last edited by Metaphor; 09-29-2022 at 01:14 AM.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
I don't know if this makes sense with Socionics principles, but it does if you take MBTI cognitive functions (shadow functions) principles and apply them to Socionics.
Consider the following:
-If you convert MBTI to Socionics, the demonstrative function in Socionics is also the critical parent (what you criticize yourself for).
-Semi-duals have your demonstrative function as their creative function.
If MBTI shadow function principles apply to Socionics, when you see your dual, you see not only someone who leads with your valued suggestive function (which is what you desire in a relationship), but also someone that uses what you criticize yourself for naturally, in an almost carefree manner. And not only is that very attractive to you, but you have the same effect on them because of your own leading and creative functions.
The downfall of a semi-dual relationship would probably be related to their vulnerable function. You have a good and valued usage of your mobilizing function, and you expect them to have the same awareness. But they simply don't. In fact, they might be chronically unaware of this. I think that this is generally not that big of an issue because you interpret yourself as being bad at this function too, so you can forgive your semi-dual for being bad at it. But it might create the appearance that something's missing in the relationship.
Doesn't this mean that if your semi-dual used your PoLR in the wrong way to you, you would actually think that they're uninteresting? I think that this implies that some semi-duals might be very attractive, and others aren't.
I think that personally, I would be attracted to an SLE because they operate logically. Their Fe usage seems like it might affect me negatively if anything.
Edit: I think that generally, if a SLE was able to use Fe to dominate the social sphere, that would be very impressive. Maybe this is the love aspect of Fe PoLR. I also think that somehow, that might seem manipulative though.
Well, as a male ILE whose best female friend is an SLI, I can tell you that semiduality feels like there is a deep understanding of the other person, like your lives line up, until they make "a lapse" in judgement that seems honestly baffling, and wakes you up to the realization that they are a person too. Duality feels like work, like opposites who are consciously making an effort to know each other, semiduality meanwhile is, in my opinion, much more smooth at the start. Also, arguments get treated almost instantly.
I also don't agree that we are, but I would say that our semidual is usually easier to approach simply because you have some shared strengths and seem less foreign, tend to share more interests, etc.
Duality is not perfect. EIIs may say/imply so but it ain’t. Some other types may be guilty of this too…..
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 11-14-2022 at 01:50 PM.
Duals are the most perfect for each other (wholesome and healthy), I just think EIIs romanticise duality too much (they do, and it’s depressing for other people). They talk about their partners in a way that makes the relationship sound better than it actually is. Because no ITR is perfect. And no relationship is perfect- unless you’re rare type of lucky. I just think they’re the most prone to romanticise duality, and use the forum to fantasise about what their partner can give them. It’s harmful.
Duality is not ‘everything’ though, a person’s dual partner
may not be the greatest love of their life..and every ITR is missing something. The ‘worse’ ones even seem to have something enticing about them too.
Duality may be significantly more wholesome and healthy than other ITR but I think good versions of other types can be lovely too.
Edit: sorry above person realise your comment may have not been responding to my comment
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 11-14-2022 at 08:15 PM.
Helpful Info for this Thread
The Semi-Dual Pairs:
INTj /LII - ENFj/EIE
ENTp/ILE - ISTp/SLI
INFp/IEI - ESFp/SEE
INTp /ILI - ESTp/SLE
ENTj/LIE - INFj/EII
ESFj/ESE - ISTj/LSI
ISFj/ESI - ESTJ/LSE
ISFp/SEI - ENFp/IEE
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........G o d...i s...g i v i n g...u s...o u r...c o u n t r y...b a c k...a n d...N O T H I N G...C A N...S T O P...G O D .
."And after three days and an half, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." - Rev. 11:11
My LSE brother' s Semi-Dual relationship with my mother was perhaps the best of us four kids. Also good was my LSI brother's Lookalike with her, and my SLI brother was her Beneficiary , and that is the order of how I think they are best, with my relation with her as her Supervisor being the most difficult for her. I used to wonder if she liked boys better, but now I understand. I love the understanding of relationships that only Socionics can bring.
I truly enjoy the ISFp's in my life. I know there are parts of me they just don't get so I just don't focus on that with them. There is so much to appreciate about them.
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........G o d...i s...g i v i n g...u s...o u r...c o u n t r y...b a c k...a n d...N O T H I N G...C A N...S T O P...G O D .
."And after three days and an half, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." - Rev. 11:11
So my natural first choice is dual- no surprise. I’d go for super-ego next, however I don’t think it’s a realistic choice for me because I haven’t had enough relationship experience to be able to handle it. Semi-dual is my second choice but I’ve had to think my way into that mindset. SEI is my instinctive choice. I honestly think part of the reason I prefer dual to semi-dual is because my father is ST so an STP feels familiar for me. However, SEEs have an allure about them- similar to SEIs or LIIs. I think I’ll end up with an SEE or SLE unless a sneaky SEI comes along. There seems to be enough SF men out there..though don’t wanna count my chickens!
This is a bizarre and morbid thing to say but recently I was thinking about if/when my mum dies (hopefully not for a long time) I’d really notice the loss of not having an ESE is my life I felt close to. And bizarrely the thought of having an SEE partner feels like it would help with that loss. Makes sense in my head.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 11-25-2022 at 03:26 PM.
They basically understand what it’s like to be you more than a dual does.
I guess you can get duals that feel similar to you..like you have a special understanding, like they are another version of you, with semi dual they will understand specific emotions
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 12-15-2022 at 03:09 PM.
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