Can you type me?

[Flying Dutchman]

Hi I am Flying Dutchman and here is a questionnaire I filled in a while ago. It was before I really got into Socionics (keeping Forer effect in mind) and I am curious about your conclusions. It was taken in a somewhat edgier mood of mine, so keep that in mind. Thank you for reviewing it in advance!

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?
My drive in my life are my goals, and passions. I look to gain energy from them. I live my life to gain complete autonomy and stability. And I keep developing myself in order to achieve that.
2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?
I can only give an example. I want to build a big company with a few of my close friends. But my focus is primarily on energy, stability, and full autonomy. Staying in full control.
3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?
I strongly avoid doing what others want. To be and feel weak, and timid. I value staying true to myself and never let anyone control me. Not intentionally being rebellious, but that’s my natural way of responding to being pressured. I also value honesty, intelligence and kindness the most.
4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?
My biggest fear is not being able to be myself, and change myself to other’s wills. Feeling dead numb, apathetic.
5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?
I want others to see me as strong and autonome. Someone who doesn’t quit and doesn’t give in to anything. I want others to see what I see. I see myself as strong, and independent, stronger than the world. But also as a dynamic individual that comes in different forms as well. In a week I could be much more light-hearted than I am now.
6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
I feel at my best when I’m strongly motivated and energized by my goals. It makes me feel like I completely stay true to myself.
I feel at my worst when things aren’t working out for me, when problems arise that I can’t solve. When I feel weak, cornered, and incapable.
7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
a) I have a close connection to my anger. If I’m angry, it feels like a energized raging monster (although I see it as a good thing) waking up inside me, and want to explode. I sometimes try to control it because I know that bad things will happen if I don’t.
b) I do not often experience shame, so it’s difficult for me to explain that. It only comes when there’s is a chance that others see me as less than worthy.
c) Anxiety only occurs to me when I can’t solve problems, and feel incompetent.
8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
a) It depends, if it’s “good” stress I feel very energized and happy. If it is “bad” stress however, I feel drained and tired. I usually experience “good” stress.
b) I’m very good at dealing with unexpected changes, I can easily adapt to them most of the time.
c) I like conflict, as long it is rational and truthful. Others have found this annoying. When I’m bored I look to start logical conflicts about small things, it gives me adrenaline.
9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?
a) I respect authority as long it is just. When the moment comes that it will be controlling and unfair I immediately charge against it. I have had this with my father very often when I was a child. We would have heated discussions that could last for 2 weeks long.
b) I believe that your power is the force that makes you thrive. It is what seperates the strong from the weak. Without it I would feel lost. I’d rather be dead than having no power at all. It is what make so you succeed.
10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?
Humans can be very weak, and I despise them if they are. People always have/should have their own best interest at heart. How would we survive otherwise? But I do believe that in a good atmosphere, without mean-spiritedness, everyone is worthy of kindness. People do sometimes have to be corrected on their logic tho.
Optional Questions
11. Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
It would be when I was around 13 years old. Like I previously stated, I often got into heated discussions and verbal fights with primarily my father. It was really demanding a lot of energy and brainpower from me. He was very intelligent and strategic. I had to adapt to that. It made me able to outsmart him, and know his strategy before the fights would start. I succeeded in that, and it made me a hell of a lot stronger than before. Although I have been told that I had a strong persona when I was like 7.
12. Comment on your relationship with trust.
I can develop trusting others if they have proved themselves trustworthy. I know that everyone has their own interest at heart, so I won’t take it personally if I can’t trust them, but I do value straightforward honesty over deceitful and malicious behavior.
13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.
a) - I like my strong sense of justice. It has been a drive since I was a little kid. If I saw something unjust, I would immediately make a plan to eliminate the source. I wanted to execute those plans, but my parents have teached me that an 8 years old kid can’t kill animal-killers and rapists. - I have always been proud of my quick understanding of things, and intelligence. I didn’t realize it when I was a kid, because I thought it was normal. - I was also proud that’s I could empathize with people easily if I wanted to. - And I like my sincerity, my ambition and the fact that I almost NEVER give up.
b) - I don’t like the fact that I get angry so easily. I don’t see anger as a negative thing, but it frustrates me that I can’t express it the way I want to because I have to dodge negative consequences.
14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
I notice people’s weaknesses and intentions very easily. I can also see if they have a good or bad heart.
15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?
It depends, unless that person can seriously harm me, I would call them out on it.
If a stranger would compliment me I would gratefully say thank you. But if it were a fake compliment, I would take it as an insult.
16. What's something you are: a) thankful you have; b) wish you could have? Why?
I am thankful to be alive and well. That is because I believe that life is the greatest gift. Except if you’re handicapped or retarded, but even then you could somehow be thankful.
I wish I could have more people like me, because there are only a few people who truly understand and get me. They are my family and a few of my close friends.

[Adam Strange]

e8 seems pretty clear, most likely with a 7 wing.

Probably SLE, possibly Ti subtype.

[Flying Dutchman]

e8 seems pretty clear. Probably SLE, possibly Ti subtype.

Yeah, you’re right and SLE is a possibility I keep in mind. Thing is, (not to hold onto Russian stereotypes too much) that they are usually portrayed as either very cold, over realistic and unemotional, which I am absolutely not, or pushy to the point of almost harassing others. And I usually love peace and happiness, unless someone decides to step in my surroundings and fucks the place up, becoming a challenger of my status quo. Do you get what I am trying to tell? What are the best non-biased factors to decide between two or more types that value the same IE’s but are competent only in a certain area of it. Self-deception is tricky.

[Adam Strange]

Within a quadra, each type has a certain "flavor" that is almost unmistakable. It is, of course, strongly evidenced by that type's dominant function. In the case of
SLE - drive for power and secure space
LSI - drive for rationality and structure
IEI - drive for an imaginative world
EIE - drive for social interactions.

It is usually harder to tell a person from their quasi-identical, since they share the same energy and have the same function dimensionality. At that point, you just have to observe them for a while and see how they match up.

In your case, as soon as you said your goal was to " build a big company with a few of my close friends. But my focus is primarily on energy, stability, and full autonomy. Staying in full control", I thought "SLE", because virtually every male SLE on the forum has said the same thing, and no LSE or LSI or LIE has said that, to the best of my knowledge.

My personal experience with building companies is that you -might- be able to build a small one with your friends, but to build a large company, you are going to be working with strangers because they have the talent you need and your friends do not.

As for SLE's being pushy, I have a couple of good SLE friends who definitely would be considered pushy by most of the people we know, but the SLE's can't seem to see that they are being pushy at all. They can be considerate, well-spoken, highly educated, and gentlemen, but they still can come off as being obliviously pushy.

Also, SLE's can easily have their feelings hurt by others (I know because that's true about me, and I have the same Fi and Fe dimensionality as SLE's), but we do not like to show that we have been hurt. That can give us the appearance of being unfeeling assholes.

I agree that self-deception can be tricky. Personally, I find it very hard to see myself as others see me. People are always telling me that I'm this or that, and I just would never have thought that about me.

[Flying Dutchman]

Within a quadra, each type has a certain "flavor" that is almost unmistakable. It is, of course, strongly evidenced by that type's dominant function. In the case of
SLE - drive for power and space
LSI - drive for rationality
IEI - drive for an imaginative world
EIE - drive for social interactions.

It is usually harder to tell a person from their quasi-identical, since they share the same energy and have the same function dimensionality. At that point, you just have to observe them for a while and see how they match up.

In your case, as soon as you said your goal was to " build a big company with a few of my close friends. But my focus is primarily on energy, stability, and full autonomy. Staying in full control", I thought "SLE", because virtually every male SLE on the forum has said the same thing, and no LSE or LSI or LIE has said that, to the best of my knowledge.

My personal experience with building companies is that you -might- be able to build a small one with your friends, but to build a large company, you are going to be working with strangers because they have the talent you need and your friends do not.

As for SLE's being pushy, I have a couple of good SLE friends who definitely would be considered pushy by most of the people we know, but the SLE's can't seem to see that they are being pushy at all. They can be considerate, well-spoken, highly educated, and gentlemen, but they still can come off as being obliviously pushy.

Also, SLE's can easily have their feelings hurt by others (I know because that's true about me, and I have the same Fi and Fe dimensionality as SLE's), but we do not like to show that we have been hurt. That can give us the appearance of being unfeeling assholes.

I agree that self-deception can be tricky. Personally, I find it very hard to see myself as others see me. People are always telling me that I'm this or that, and I just would never have thought that about me.

Well thank you. It is true that others tend to see me as pushier than I am. I am that guy that doesn’t back down from any argument or even opportunity for it (unless it is regarding someone with authority), and my classmates do try to tell that I shouldn’t jump in them right away. In situations of trying to start a debate, I hate people that avoid it or don’t give me the chance to speak up.

About Beta “flavors” however, I am currently busy forming a very close ‘team’ of myself and a number of my friends. I usually organize them, try to convince them of a common goal/purpose/cause that I picture to share in order to build an alliance. A group that stands for unity through hardship, willpower and especially adversity. A group that stands apart from others (others being illogical, cold, lazy, without cause, without the “drama”). Maybe this looks typical of a Aristocratic view on the world. But because this half imaginative somewhat dramatized example is more related to let’s say a EIE flavor, how would an SLE manifest these same behaviors/fantasy/setting such a goal? Would you think that to be ‘possible’ or rather unlikely?

[Adam Strange]

@Flying Dutchman, you didn't ask, but I'd like to say that from my experience, the degree of success that SLE's have in life depends strongly on their ability to develop social skills and to direct their "pushiness" towards objective goals and away from individuals.

Think of how successful WWII's General Patton was in conquering territory, but how he got himself sidelined by trying to push shell-shocked soldiers back into combat.

You can probably develop this skill fastest if you have an IEI by your side to check in with. When I'm considering doing something that I feel the least bit unsure of, I try to ask a dual what they think. Their advice has always been correct. My problem is that they are not always available.

[Chakram]

I think you are SEE.

[Flying Dutchman]

I think you are SEE.

Cool. Could you elaborate?

[Chakram]

Cool. Could you elaborate?

You answer in terms of relational qualities to yourself much more so than to logical classifications, Fi>Ti. "Staying true" to yourself, a lot of your questions seem to relate to your individually developed sense of ethics.

[Flying Dutchman]

You answer in terms of relational qualities to yourself much more so than to logical classifications, Fi>Ti. "Staying true" to yourself, a lot of your questions seem to relate to your individually developed sense of ethics.

I get the point you are saying. I would add however, that my personal meaning for this “staying true to myself” is usually unconscious, and only appears in conscious form when it gets hit directly by someone trying to adjust or criticize my natural mode of action/thinking. In that case, it does form an emotional anchor that I am quick to respond to in order to protect it.

But for SEE however, this isn’t only limited to staying true to themselves, but also to adjusting the “selves” or ethical relational aspects of reality as a creative function. By SLE for example, Ti gets to be used to help the Se ego, to identify the principles of a framework in order to “manipulate” it to the Se advantage. They have a rather fluent and flexible Ti, it is being used in service of themselves.

Staying true to myself; the form that I mean is resulting from someone criticizing my way of thinking and what I deem as necessary acts to respond to a given situation, is (result being a sudden sense of the danger of being chained emotionally and a feeling of desperation, trying to get out of that feeling) not that flexible of a manifestation of Fi (how you named this trait). So my reasoning initially tends to exclude the possibility of having creative Fi.

Btw, I do wonder if my reasoning skills shown above help potential readers with typing me.

[Chakram]

About Beta “flavors” however, I am currently busy forming a very close ‘team’ of myself and a number of my friends. I usually organize them, try to convince them of a common goal/purpose/cause that I picture to share in order to build an alliance. A group that stands for unity through hardship, willpower and especially adversity. A group that stands apart from others (others being illogical, cold, lazy, without cause, without the “drama”). Maybe this looks typical of a Aristocratic view on the world. But because this half imaginative somewhat dramatized example is more related to let’s say a EIE flavor, how would an SLE manifest these same behaviors/fantasy/setting such a goal? Would you think that to be ‘possible’ or rather unlikely?

I would say this is more Gamma than Beta as well. It is obvious you think that you are SLE, but your answers overall tend to lean more Fi-Te than Ti-Fe to me.

[Flying Dutchman]

I would say this is more Gamma than Beta as well. It is obvious you think that you are SLE, but your answers overall tend to lean more Fi-Te than Ti-Fe to me.

I am not opposed to a Gamma typing at all if you were thinking that. I have not yet settled on any type within a certain spectrum. I would however appreciate it if you could be more detailed in your assertions as to what parts of my post you understand as Gamma specifically.

[Chakram]

I am not opposed to a Gamma typing at all if you were thinking that. I have not yet settled on any type within a certain spectrum. I would however appreciate it if you could be more detailed in your assertions as to what parts of my post you understand as Gamma specifically.

Sure thing:

You don't like drama which tends to originate from Fe (Beta more often), your goals and values seem more aligned with the "Serious" Gamma than the "Merry" Beta, if you're into Reinin dichotomies. I don't use Reinin for typing purposes outside of basic serious, merry, democratic and aristocratic traits, with the first two being more used. You have much more focus on cooperative task accomplishing than fun or interaction, seemingly a preference for smaller groups of people you are comfortable and whom you are aware of already than larger more encompassing groups, and a focus on personal development and growth.

[Flying Dutchman]

Sure thing:

You don't like drama which tends to originate from Fe (Beta more often), your goals and values seem more aligned with the "Serious" Gamma than the "Merry" Beta, if you're into Reinin dichotomies. I don't use Reinin for typing purposes outside of basic serious, merry, democratic and aristocratic traits, with the first two being more used. You have much more focus on cooperative task accomplishing than fun or interaction, seemingly a preference for smaller groups of people you are comfortable and whom you are aware of already than larger more encompassing groups, and a focus on personal development and growth.

I agree with the latter part of your post but I think you misunderstood me in regards to “drama”. I didn’t state that I was opposed to drama in any way. The only time I did mention the concept of drama, I was talking about others lacking it who I view as outside of what my group stands for/should be. I am still curious about being typed through Quadra first so don’t give up because of my stubbornness in logic. Thank you

[Sol]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450

[Flying Dutchman]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1096450

Yeah I’m not really a fan of long monologues of me discussing my own type. It would become way too artificial, I think. Conversation-wise, I perform way better in dialogues although the English language isn’t my native one by far. So half of the time would still be used to formulate my sentences and perfecting my pronunciation, making it somewhat trickier whether my face expresses its regular motions then. Still, thanks for bringing up the option

[Sol]

Yeah I’m not really a fan of long monologues of me discussing my own type. It would become way too artificial, I think. Conversation-wise, I perform way better in dialogues although the English language isn’t my native one by far. So half of the time would still be used to formulate my sentences and perfecting my pronunciation, making it somewhat trickier whether my face expresses its regular motions then. Still, thanks for bringing up the option

nonverbal is obligate in normal typing which is IRL interview. video gives the needed nonverbal. just by texts to be typed is alike by 50% of the needed data -> lesser chance on the correct type

you may tell about anything on your native language for 10 min. or to answer a questionnaire in English

[Flying Dutchman]

nonverbal is obligate in normal typing which is IRL interview. video gives the needed nonverbal. just by texts to be typed is alike by 50% of the needed data -> lesser chance on the correct type

you may tell about anything on your native language for 10 min. or to answer a questionnaire in English

Okay I will try to upload a video tomorrow. I’m looking forward to the results of it.

[The Reality Denialist]

Meanwhile I my guesstimate is SEE.

[Flying Dutchman]

Here is my VI video. I may come off as somewhat detached/business-like but that’s just me explaining things in a foreign language. Hope this is of help for the VI-typists.

[Flying Dutchman]

https://youtu.be/Ims09SGJNrw

[para]

N type?

[Sol]

ILE
2nd to think is LII / INTJ

without glasses would be better

you may try IR test

[Flying Dutchman]

ILE
2nd to think is LII / INTJ

without glasses would be better

you may try IR test

Ok, I will try your IR test. In the mean time, could you provide me with some input as to why you see Si>Se or Ne>Ni? Could you pick some Reinin dichotomies that you extracted from this? Like static/dynamic etc. I will get back to you soon regarding the test results.

[Sol]

could you provide me with some input as to why you see Si>Se or Ne>Ni?

it's devine revelation by trained VI skills

> Could you pick some Reinin dichotomies that you extracted from this?

Reinin traits are not based enough to use them.

> I will get back to you soon regarding the test results.

would be nice

[Flying Dutchman]

it's devine revelation by trained VI skills

> Could you pick some Reinin dichotomies that you extracted from this?

Reinin traits are not based enough to use them.

> I will get back to you soon regarding the test results.

would be nice

Yeah ok, but you have to admit that such a statement pretty much sounds like subjective fortune-telling. Not that I am discrediting the validity of V.I, but I’d like to see a base from which you operate. What features of my video seemed more Alpha than let’s say Beta or Gamma. Delta is out of the picture anyway, so that leaves us with 3 potential Quadra’s. Do you get what I mean? Please refer to concepts like rational/irrational or sensing/intuiting in combination with certain movements or speech elements of mine.

[Beautiful sky]

ISTp final type

[Flying Dutchman]

ISTp final type

Maritsa, really? I just commented that Delta Quadra is out of the picture. It’s even the only Quadra I never considered for myself. Believe me, I really don’t have Fe PoLR. And btw, Ne isn’t something I am seeking at all in others. I don’t even appreciate it in others.

[Sol]

Yeah ok, but you have to admit that such a statement pretty much sounds like subjective fortune-telling.

VI is intuitive method too
intuition is one of 8 functions. they all are useful and equal. efficiency of intuitive methods mb checked as of logical methods - by the same ways, by the results. only the process is "black box"

"fortune-telling" also should not be rejected only because it uses intuition it may and should be tested on real results. some of guessers probably give them good enough, at least better than random to reject intuition totally

VI gave typing matches higher than accidental and close to other methods alike text questionnaires - 15-20% in average, so it showed to have useful typing data. Also behavior of people typed by VI I may see and notice the degree it fits to supposed types. They fit good in my experience with my typing. I did this on many ones, for years.

When people interpret logically someone's behavior, questionaires, interviews - there is also high subjectivism. the reason you may see different types for the same human from different typers, even by the same material

You may try IR test and notice yourself the degree it fits to your supposed type. It not rarely fits ok, what is possibly only if types of the examples are enough correct. In other case there would be just a random mess, almost always. As you have Ne type - you have higher chance to get the expected results in this test as it uses mostly Ne for sorting - your intuitive feeling of people.

Alike you may analyse the emotional state of a human by impression from him - from his nonverbal - the same you may get impressions related to types traits. It's not so magical. It's just common intuition analysis of nonverbal behavior applied to Jung types. You should try IR test to understand better VI.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, really? I just commented that Delta Quadra is out of the picture. It’s even the only Quadra I never considered for myself. Believe me, I really don’t have Fe PoLR. And btw, Ne isn’t something I am seeking at all in others. I don’t even appreciate it in others.

Yes. I’ll write more when I get home

[Flying Dutchman]

@Flying Dutchman Have you seen the film Dr. Strange? It is a good story about your identical type.

Yeah I do relate to him and Batman (Dark Knight) more so than to most other superheroes, especially his character before he became a superhero would be likely for me.. But to what exact type are you referring to? xLE or LxE? There are different opinions regarding his TIM

[Flying Dutchman]

VI is intuitive method too
intuition is one of 8 functions. they all are useful and equal. efficiency of intuitive methods mb checked as of logical methods - by the same ways, by the results. only the process is "black box"

"fortune-telling" also should not be rejected only because it uses intuition it may and should be tested on real results. some of guessers probably give them good enough, at least better than random to reject intuition totally

VI gave typing matches higher than accidental and close to other methods alike text questionnaires - 15-20% in average, so it showed to have useful typing data. Also behavior of people typed by VI I may see and notice the degree it fits to supposed types. They fit good in my experience with my typing. I did this on many ones, for years.

When people interpret logically someone's behavior, questionaires, interviews - there is also high subjectivism. the reason you may see different types for the same human from different typers, even by the same material

You may try IR test and notice yourself the degree it fits to your supposed type. It not rarely fits ok, what is possibly only if types of the examples are enough correct. In other case there would be just a random mess, almost always. As you have Ne type - you have higher chance to get the expected results in this test as it uses mostly Ne for sorting - your intuitive feeling of people.

Alike you may analyse the emotional state of a human by impression from him - from his nonverbal - the same you may get impressions related to types traits. It's not so magical. It's just common intuition analysis of nonverbal behavior applied to Jung types. You should try IR test to understand better VI.

Ok, I get your point. But apart from VI alone, how would you recognize Alpha in the way I speak or express myself in this forum (apart from the video)? Wouldn’t Se-valuing be more likely?

[Flying Dutchman]

Yes. I’ll write more when I get home

Looking forward to it!

[Flying Dutchman]

The Dark Knight would be your dual friend, but the director of the film is your identical.

And what type do you currently consider for me? What type do you picture Dr Strange to be?

[Flying Dutchman]

It is here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...e-The-Endgame!

LII, really? I pictured him as an intuitive but not an Fe-seeker. Fe-Role would be more understandable. Se HA would seem more likely considering his persona regarding status, wealth and Te-linked competency. Si-HA would be less likely in my opinion. But thanks for your typing. I know for a fact that I’m not an LII btw

[Flying Dutchman]

The person in this clip is identical to the actor in the movie.

Yeah I didn’t refer to the comparison but rather the LII typing of Stephen Strange

[Sol]

But apart from VI alone, how would you recognize Alpha in the way I speak or express myself in this forum (apart from the video)? Wouldn’t Se-valuing be more likely?

I trust to VI as main method in offline typing. Too easy to mislead, to play something by words.
Even if I'd read your questionnaire and saw you in Se related themes - where you'd behaved on a surface look closer to Se valued types, - I'd trust more to VI result anyway. As I'm relatively sure in alpha T by VI, there is no interest to analyse your texts at now.

IR test shows values better than concrete types. Your valued S mb seen there.

[Alonzo]

@Flying Dutchman Have you read any of IEI profiles? Give some of those a look over and tell me what you think. I'll espouse more on my thoughts after your feedback.

[Flying Dutchman]

@Flying Dutchman Have you read any of IEI profiles? Give some of those a look over and tell me what you think. I'll espouse more on my thoughts after your feedback.

Yes, I have done it before but I couldn’t relate to it really. Thing is, I am probably a Rational because of my way of doing things. Beta ST was a possibility i kept in mind because they sometimes tend to look like Rational types. I am very demanding in logic. And like you maybe have read; I criticize a number of typings by them. I don’t buy the whole Ne>Se thing at all. I am known for using Se, in comparison with most others I am full of Se and I just use it more as necessary than as recreational. That’s why I think I am valuing it to say the least. LIE isn’t out of the picture either.

[Alonzo]

Yes, I have done it before but I couldn’t relate to it really. Thing is, I am probably a Rational because of my way of doing things. Beta ST was a possibility i kept in mind because they sometimes tend to look like Rational types. I am very demanding in logic. And like you maybe have read; I criticize a number of typings by them. I don’t buy the whole Ne>Se thing at all. I am known for using Se, in comparison with most others I am full of Se and I just use it more as necessary than as recreational. That’s why I think I am valuing it to say the least. LIE isn’t out of the picture either.

Ok, answer this > can you feel/take on the emotions of others and whatever environment you're apart of, as if by contagion? Valuing Fe involves being dynamically aware of the "continuous excitations in people's emotional" states. To varying extents and degrees, all Fe valuers (E*Es, the most and L*Is, the least) are aware of and in tune with the ambient emotional vibes in the environment, though they may have differing facility and competency when it comes to utilizing and responding to this brand of "feedback." If you relate to this, then Alpha and Beta quadra are likely. If not, that leaves Delta and Gamma.