INFjs - letting off steam

[Minde]

Hmm, that's funny. In the first quote, it sounds like the ESTj has all the power. In the second, the INFj has more influence.

Teehee. That too is funny, since I thought it was exactly the other way around when I wrote them

You thought what was the other way around?

But anyway, the real power in the relationship can belong to either one. The one who seems to use more force is not necessarily the one who directs the use of that force. And relationships have layers, good ones have many.

I agree.

Well, sure, there's INFjs like you, then there's INFjs who are afraid that they've gone too far in the 'separation' and feel they're all alone.

Sometimes I get that type of feeling, too, but then I usually look around and see that I'm not quite alone as I thought.

Deltas can either tolerate society or step away from it, but the important bit is that deltas rarely fight against it, or build it. Even tolerating and ritually conservative delta behaviour has a tendency to actually suck the lifeforce of society and rot it's core, so even that is a rebellion of sorts. We keep up traditions but aren't very good at creating new ones. One of the differences between the rational deltas and the irrational ones is that our separation from the society is more forceful when we do it, the irrationals do it in a more relaxed and natural manner. Not really that big a deal.

I rot the core of society? And suck out its lifeforce?!

I'm not sure I understand this. Well, sort of. I realize that delta is the "old" quadra, and oldness is generally associated with degeneration and eventual death. But it's also connected with wisdom and the desire for new life, or at least the preservation of life.

So I can see, sort of, how delta control of society would lead to its death. But that's only using the abstract parallel between "oldness" and things falling apart. When I actually look at the deltas, however, I see people who care about the wellbeing of other people. Particularly the NFs. How can an Fi focus allow the destruction of society?

Unless... society isn't working?

Gah, it's circular.

Explain this to me. (how's that for a direct request?)

[Smilingeyes]

Hmm, that's funny. In the first quote, it sounds like the ESTj has all the power. In the second, the INFj has more influence.

Teehee. That too is funny, since I thought it was exactly the other way around when I wrote them

You thought what was the other way around?

It could go both ways. Socionics doesn't really define actual power, only strategy. I know some strategies better than others, hence preference, hence feeling of personal choice and power. My opinion on who had the power in which situation was not socionics-related.

Well, sure, there's INFjs like you, then there's INFjs who are afraid that they've gone too far in the 'separation' and feel they're all alone.

Sometimes I get that type of feeling, too, but then I usually look around and see that I'm not quite alone as I thought.

Me too, probably true for most deltas.

I rot the core of society? And suck out its lifeforce?!

Explain this to me. (how's that for a direct request?)

(Very good, thank you.)

Oh, don't worry, the actions of any and all types can be cast in many a light. I'm just pointing out that conservation is a different thing than renewal. Deltas don't do much renewal, we do conservation. And things can't be kept in a stasis forever.

You're right about the wisdom and protection of life of course. Those issues too belong to us. There's a lot of important things going on in delta. But we don't really advertise them that much. Good reputation seems to be much less important to deltas than not having a bad reputation.

You particularly wondered how Fi-focus can allow things to die. It doesn't. But Fi isn't the only thing deltas have. We've got Ne and Si as well, and those functions do allow things to destruct around them. And then there's the fact that life is a dynamic changing process, and Fi and Te are not good at adapting to change. If you try to stop life changing, you kill it. It's like hugging someone so hard s/he can't breathe.

In economics and politics, think about bureaucracy, organized labour, red tape. Those are the kind of limitations and vested interests that deltas maintain as methods of protecting the society, its members, and particularly ourselves.

You asked particularly about delta NFs. If there's a sin of the delta NFs, it would be fantasizing. The world isn't the nice place you'd like it to be. Delta STs just create small parts that are. But the more you press your own idea of how the world should work, the more you distance yourself from the reality. And if you go completely Ne, you stop caring about what is and enter the world of would-could-should. And at that point you've abandoned the actual real people who need the concrete taking care of. You can't take care of anyone if you're blind. The danger is falling in love with your picture of something instead of the thing itself. Denial. That's the method delta NFs cause damage through.

All of this is not to say, again, that deltas are bad or worse than any other quadra. All are vital. I just don't see any reason to gloss over the bad of being delta. I guess it would be more difficult for the NFs. It's hard to try to be universally beneficial while simultaneously realising that trying it doesn't cause universally beneficial results. And the more you strive for that perfection the closer you get to Ne and abandoning the real world. It's a difficult balance, but so is everything.

[Topaz]

Thats very interesting Smilingeyes, and I would say rather acurate. I do daydream too much (not to mention procrastinate). Its a sin and a curse, but I seem to be incapable of making a complete change. I think only gives me energy in spurts. After that I seem to be only able to maintain the status quo of whatever I started. I dont identify with the whole beaucracy thing though. I hate red tape, beauracracy and give organized labour little thought. I mostly want to do something enjoyable that contributes to the well being of others (Im studying to be a teacher). Perhaps there is a way that Im not thinking of that contributes to this idea though. Perhaps it is that I take these institutions for granted and expect them to protect and save me from my own haphazard way of doing things.
Im so ashamed.

[Minde]

(You're welcome. I'm practicing this whole being direct thing. I think I like it.)

It could go both ways. Socionics doesn't really define actual power, only strategy. I know some strategies better than others, hence preference, hence feeling of personal choice and power. My opinion on who had the power in which situation was not socionics-related.

Oh...

In economics and politics, think about bureaucracy, organized labour, red tape. Those are the kind of limitations and vested interests that deltas maintain as methods of protecting the society, its members, and particularly ourselves.

True... Personally, I'll tend to go along with preexisting protocols, unless I think that they're not working. Then, instead of just coloring outside the lines, I'll rearrange the lines to suit me.

You asked particularly about delta NFs. If there's a sin of the delta NFs, it would be fantasizing. The world isn't the nice place you'd like it to be. Delta STs just create small parts that are. But the more you press your own idea of how the world should work, the more you distance yourself from the reality. And if you go completely Ne, you stop caring about what is and enter the world of would-could-should. And at that point you've abandoned the actual real people who need the concrete taking care of. You can't take care of anyone if you're blind. The danger is falling in love with your picture of something instead of the thing itself. Denial. That's the method delta NFs cause damage through.

So, NFs have to be careful of too much idealization? Do the STs help with that at all? I'm assuming not very much, since they're still delta.

Also, you described how Ne allows things to decay, but you also mentioned Si? How is that destructive to its surroundings?

All of this is not to say, again, that deltas are bad or worse than any other quadra. All are vital. I just don't see any reason to gloss over the bad of being delta.

Oh, of course not. Delta has its bad points. Which is, I suppose, why there are other quadras. By itself, any one quadra can be destructive. But, when it's all in place, it works. Theoretically... But that's another batch of questions and ponderings that belong in another time and place.

[Smilingeyes]

(You're welcome. I'm practicing this whole being direct thing. I think I like it.)

Nice to hear. Just for people's reference here, I'm getting a pretty nice dual vibe about all this. Same for you? I mean, it's just... easy talking to you.

In economics and politics, think about bureaucracy, organized labour, red tape. Those are the kind of limitations and vested interests that deltas maintain as methods of protecting the society, its members, and particularly ourselves.

True... Personally, I'll tend to go along with preexisting protocols, unless I think that they're not working. Then, instead of just coloring outside the lines, I'll rearrange the lines to suit me.

Wonderful description. I hope people are taking note of this. Te-Fi concrete dominant. This is what I also have been doing lately.

So, NFs have to be careful of too much idealization? Do the STs help with that at all? I'm assuming not very much, since they're still delta.

That sort of depends. I mean, every function has a reason to exist. Going the idealism way and going flat out Ne isn't by definition bad. It's just a decision you make and then you have to accept the consequences. You're right about the delta STs. They basically have the corresponding problem of balancing Te with Si. They're as likely to push you toward Ne as they are toward Fi.

Also, you described how Ne allows things to decay, but you also mentioned Si? How is that destructive to its surroundings?

The sin of Si would be concentrating on managing concrete matters in a personally optimal way and ignoring the needs and actions of society at large. For ESTjs it's about perfectionism in personal action, the hubris of being able to solve any situation. It's also about practicality, too much of it to be frank... Practicality for yourself, not for others. If there's a function that defines corruption, Si is probably it. You remember all the bureaucracy deltas establish? If you create something, you also tend to know how to trick it, how to bypass it. And the more Si is used, the more money is bled from the system to random private pockets. Si is also extremely short-sighted. Those are some phenomena that Si is involved in as a destructive force.

Oh, of course not. Delta has its bad points. Which is, I suppose, why there are other quadras. By itself, any one quadra can be destructive. But, when it's all in place, it works. Theoretically... But that's another batch of questions and ponderings that belong in another time and place.

Well, yes, I guess it sort of does. Till next time now.

[Smilingeyes]

Thats very interesting ...
Im so ashamed.

I'm sorry for any discomfort any personal revelation might have caused. I gather that you didn't yet form a final opinion on the matter. In general your message seemed very wise though. Hope I understood it correctly.

[Topaz]

Thats very interesting ...
Im so ashamed.

I'm sorry for any discomfort any personal revelation might have caused. I gather that you didn't yet form a final opinion on the matter. In general your message seemed very wise though. Hope I understood it correctly.

oh please. I wish I were really that concientious. I feel no true discomfort. Perhaps you may call me shameless I find your post interesting though because it has given me insight. I assure you if I do adjust my behavior it will be painless.

[Minde]

Just for people's reference here, I'm getting a pretty nice dual vibe about all this. Same for you? I mean, it's just... easy talking to you.

Yes, I like talking with you. At least, so far. You're similar to Expat, except... a little different. You both can separate your reasoning from your feelings about the person you're talking to (well, as much as anyone can – though I think you're a little more likely to openly criticize someone). You both are usually not only logical but right. You're both smart and have a more thorough and scientific-like grasp of human personality and relations than most people do or express. You both are willing to answer my questions in detail without getting sidetracked or commenting on how long it's taking for me to grasp what you're saying. And you both seem to understand and appreciate my attempts to be friendly and maintain smooth relations.

The differences – Well, I know what the main one is; let's just see if I can explain it properly. I feel a little safer with Expat. I think he's a little gentler. He's very receptive to suggestions on what's right or wrong between people, what's nice and what's mean. Just watch his reactions to criticisms of his fairness as a moderator. You... I think in a similar situation you'd be more likely to tell people to shut up and deal with it. That edginess doesn't scare me, though, or even really upset me. I'm also guessing that if someone were asking for help, you'd be more likely to provide direct assistance, while Expat might encourage them to do it themselves. (It's actually not a very big difference when compared with everyone else.) You also seem a little more melancholic. Oh, and in general Expat is a little more understandable when he posts, though it seems to get better when you are talking directly to me.

So, um, all that to say... yes. It's quite easy to talk to you. Don't have to worry as much about misunderstandings and you seem accepting and supportive of the way I behave. Except, I'm not sure what dual relationships are supposed to look/feel like. I mean, I understand theoretically, but I'm not sure if I've experienced it. I think semi-dual is the closest I've gotten, at least in terms of positively identifying traits in an actual person.

True... Personally, I'll tend to go along with preexisting protocols, unless I think that they're not working. Then, instead of just coloring outside the lines, I'll rearrange the lines to suit me.

Wonderful description.

[Expat]

Thanks for your nice comments, Minde

The differences – Well, I know what the main one is; let's just see if I can explain it properly. I feel a little safer with Expat. I think he's a little gentler. He's very receptive to suggestions on what's right or wrong between people, what's nice and what's mean. Just watch his reactions to criticisms of his fairness as a moderator. You... I think in a similar situation you'd be more likely to tell people to shut up and deal with it.

One way of explaining that: I am more worried about my Fe role function, so I am more careful about that. That, and my Fi dual seeking, make me concerned about the impression I make when using my so-called "power" as moderator, rather than just use it and be damned what others think, as someone more confident in Se and Fe (and either more confident in, or unconcerned with, Fi) would do.

Another way - as Smilingeyes might prefer - is to say that my behavior is typical of increasing emotion-creating for abstract Te in Gamma EJ.

I'm also guessing that if someone were asking for help, you'd be more likely to provide direct assistance, while Expat might encourage them to do it themselves. (It's actually not a very big difference when compared with everyone else.) You also seem a little more melancholic. Oh, and in general Expat is a little more understandable when he posts, though it seems to get better when you are talking directly to me.

I think the direct assistance thing is more related to different "specialties". The area where I feel I can be most useful, and so my direct assistance will be most effective, is in typing. On pure Socionics theory, I have my own views but I prefer to discuss those only after we agree on the basics.

[Smilingeyes]

oh please. I wish I were really that concientious. I feel no true discomfort. Perhaps you may call me shameless I find your post interesting though because it has given me insight. I assure you if I do adjust my behavior it will be painless.

though I think you're a little more likely to openly criticize someone

Yes, quite true.

I think he's a little gentler.

Could be. Or perhaps he's hiding something?

Just watch his reactions to criticisms of his fairness as a moderator.

Yes, it was interesting .

You... I think in a similar situation you'd be more likely to tell people to shut up and deal with it.

Yes, more likely. But it's not as clear-cut as most people here would believe. There's a number of issues factoring in, Expat's mod-status vs. my status as a person who is challenging the status quo of socionics theory. My earlier messages that were ... different due to a different social strategy that I was using... Due to these and probably other matters I expect that I get a lot more trolling messages than Expat does. A lot of people want to challenge me. I haven't really received simple honest suggestions as to my code of conduct. If such a thing would happen, I would consider whatever issue that was raised very thoroughly.

That edginess doesn't scare me, though, or even really upset me.

Very nice to hear.

I'm also guessing that if someone were asking for help, you'd be more likely to provide direct assistance, while Expat might encourage them to do it themselves.

I rather support this conclusion (though I also support Expat's comment on the matter). It's characteristic for ESTjs to be attracted by problems and to start acting in situations in which they have no benefit or even enough information to fully appraise the situation.

You also seem a little more melancholic.

That simply has to be a change that has happened lately. I used to be quite the funny guy. (Of late I agree)

Oh, and in general Expat is a little more understandable when he posts, though it seems to get better when you are talking directly to me.

I'm a complex man.

and be damned what others think, as someone more confident in Se and Fe (and either more confident in, or unconcerned with, Fi) would do.

Not really unconcerned. There's just very very little Fi around on the forum. Anyway, most of the blustering is just that. There's some people on the forum with whom I would rather not deal and what with this being the internet, the rules of social conduct are rather different from real life, so I think it's fair to give a warning regularly. Something like "If you waste my time I will treat you accordingly." There's maybe also the matter that I have a reflexive distaste to the idea of being popular. If I got any more of the private mails and such I couldn't answer everything people write to me. So it's better that only people who have something important enough to say and are willing to risk the possibility of getting blown off are interested to talk to me.

Hmm, that wasn't very clear now. The point was, I do care about what others think but it's useful if people think that I don't.

Another way - as Smilingeyes might prefer - is to say that my behavior is typical of increasing emotion-creating for abstract Te in Gamma EJ.

Ah, perfect! Always nice to see that somebody reads what I write.

[Smilingeyes]

Adding to the previous...

There's also the matter of consistency. Expat's been quite Te all the time, with some Ni and brief glimpses of Si thrown in. I've shown a lot of Fe, Si, Ni and only recently more Te. My reputation hasn't adjusted to the new situation as of yet.

[Minde]

Thanks for your nice comments, Minde

One way of explaining that: I am more worried about my Fe role function, so I am more careful about that. That, and my Fi dual seeking, make me concerned about the impression I make when using my so-called "power" as moderator, rather than just use it and be damned what others think, as someone more confident in Se and Fe (and either more confident in, or unconcerned with, Fi) would do.

Theoretically, aren't you and Smilex supposed to be similar in terms of Fi/Fe?

Another way - as Smilingeyes might prefer - is to say that my behavior is typical of increasing emotion-creating for abstract Te in Gamma EJ.

Someday, I promise, I will understand exactly what you just said. And everything that Smilex says, too.

I think the direct assistance thing is more related to different "specialties". The area where I feel I can be most useful, and so my direct assistance will be most effective, is in typing. On pure Socionics theory, I have my own views but I prefer to discuss those only after we agree on the basics.

I was thinking more generally, outside of just the interactions on this forum. For instance, think if I was friends with either of you and I came to both of you asking for financial or business related advice. You would, of course, help me, but while doing so I think you'd want me to take more control of my affairs. You might gently or subtly push me toward independence. Smilex, in contrast, might be content with a greater degree of control and/or influence on his part. He might enjoy making sure things go smoothly. However, I think in reality it would only be a tiny variation between the two of you, a slight preference one way or another. And, it's hard to tell, since I haven't really met either of you.

As far as specialties go, you're fairly confident in typing, so perhaps you feel more confidence than usual in "pushing" your knowledge. In any case, it's obvious that you like helping people in that area (and in other areas, very likely). And I think you're good at it, too, which is why I keep asking you to explain your opinions.

As a side note, I think that responsiveness to calls for help goes somewhat beyond types. If and when they choose to help, women are more motivated if they feel I need "mothering." Similarly, men are more likely to help if they think I need "rescuing." And in general, I think men tend to get more satisfaction out of it. I think it's related to desires for respect and heroism. So in this context, I think that you and Smilex (and other guys, including those on this forum) get a certain fulfillment out of helping other people out. It's a good thing, in my opinion (don't kill me, Joy!).

[Minde]

I think he's a little gentler.

Could be. Or perhaps he's hiding something?

Case in point.

You... I think in a similar situation you'd be more likely to tell people to shut up and deal with it.

Yes, more likely. But it's not as clear-cut as most people here would believe. There's a number of issues factoring in, Expat's mod-status vs. my status as a person who is challenging the status quo of socionics theory. My earlier messages that were ... different due to a different social strategy that I was using... Due to these and probably other matters I expect that I get a lot more trolling messages than Expat does. A lot of people want to challenge me. I haven't really received simple honest suggestions as to my code of conduct. If such a thing would happen, I would consider whatever issue that was raised very thoroughly.

That and the helping thing, they're small differences, really, when compared with how other personalities behave. On the spectrum of gruffness-to-sweetness, you're both a little on the gruff side of pragmatic. As I've said before, a simple yet sincere comment is probably the best way to approach Expat and, from what I've seen, the best way to approach you, too.

You also seem a little more melancholic.

That simply has to be a change that has happened lately. I used to be quite the funny guy. (Of late I agree)

One can be melancholy on the inside and funny on the outside. But, yes, you've been a little blue lately.

I'm a complex man.

The last time a guy said that to me I felt like slapping him. But it was in rather different circumstances.

Not really unconcerned. There's just very very little Fi around on the forum. Anyway, most of the blustering is just that. There's some people on the forum with whom I would rather not deal and what with this being the internet, the rules of social conduct are rather different from real life, so I think it's fair to give a warning regularly. Something like "If you waste my time I will treat you accordingly." There's maybe also the matter that I have a reflexive distaste to the idea of being popular. If I got any more of the private mails and such I couldn't answer everything people write to me. So it's better that only people who have something important enough to say and are willing to risk the possibility of getting blown off are interested to talk to me.

Hmm, that wasn't very clear now. The point was, I do care about what others think but it's useful if people think that I don't.

That all fits with my impression of you. BTW, I think that'd be quite a useful tactic at times, but I don't think I could pull it off.

Adding to the previous...

There's also the matter of consistency. Expat's been quite Te all the time, with some Ni and brief glimpses of Si thrown in. I've shown a lot of Fe, Si, Ni and only recently more Te. My reputation hasn't adjusted to the new situation as of yet.

Yes, which I think is also related to Expat's "safeness." He's a bit more stable.

[FDG]

I'm a complex man.

The last time a guy said that to me I felt like slapping him. But it was in rather different circumstances.

Did he have a "i" on his t-shirt?

[sorry, I couldn't resist the supernerdy stupidity]

[Expat]

Theoretically, aren't you and Smilex supposed to be similar in terms of Fi/Fe?

Yes, and we probably are, relatively speaking. You said yourself that the differences are minor, and there is also the aspects that Smilingeyes mentioned.

Someday, I promise, I will understand exactly what you just said. And everything that Smilex says, too.

Ah, that.

This refers to a way to look at Socionics based on Reinin Dichotomies:

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=3398



There you can see what is meant with emotion-creating and construct-creating.

The stuff on "accepting Te for Gamma EJ" can be found here:

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=3514

I was thinking more generally, outside of just the interactions on this forum. For instance, think if I was friends with either of you and I came to both of you asking for financial or business related advice. You would, of course, help me, but while doing so I think you'd want me to take more control of my affairs. You might gently or subtly push me toward independence. Smilex, in contrast, might be content with a greater degree of control and/or influence on his part. He might enjoy making sure things go smoothly. However, I think in reality it would only be a tiny variation between the two of you, a slight preference one way or another. And, it's hard to tell, since I haven't really met either of you.

It's interesting that you say that. As an ENTj, I tend to react to others as if to my dual, the ISFj. So I tend to provide advice and guidance in Te matters and I tend to expect people to be independent in an aggressive Se IJ manner, that is, even disliking it if I would want to "take care of them" too much.

What you described about how you perceive Smilingeyes's behavior would be more consistent with an ESTj wanting to "take care of" an INFj.

As far as specialties go, you're fairly confident in typing, so perhaps you feel more confidence than usual in "pushing" your knowledge. In any case, it's obvious that you like helping people in that area (and in other areas, very likely). And I think you're good at it, too, which is why I keep asking you to explain your opinions.

Also, that is the area that interests me the most. Before you can put Socionics to practical use, you have to be able to type people correctly.

As a side note, I think that responsiveness to calls for help goes somewhat beyond types. If and when they choose to help, women are more motivated if they feel I need "mothering." Similarly, men are more likely to help if they think I need "rescuing." And in general, I think men tend to get more satisfaction out of it. I think it's related to desires for respect and heroism. So in this context, I think that you and Smilex (and other guys, including those on this forum) get a certain fulfillment out of helping other people out. It's a good thing, in my opinion (don't kill me, Joy!).

I think that the men/women thingy certainly plays a role, since in our society (and even more so in most other societies) there are "gender roles". However, I also think that those are at least to a large extent overruled by Socionics roles.

[Minde]

I'm a complex man.

The last time a guy said that to me I felt like slapping him. But it was in rather different circumstances.

Did he have a "i" on his t-shirt?

[sorry, I couldn't resist the supernerdy stupidity]

I'm sorry, I don't get it.

[Minde]

Someday, I promise, I will understand exactly what you just said. And everything that Smilex says, too.

Ah, that.

This refers to a way to look at Socionics based on Reinin Dichotomies:

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=3398



There you can see what is meant with emotion-creating and construct-creating.

The stuff on "accepting Te for Gamma EJ" can be found here:

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=3514

Thank you.

And, this is a great example of what I was talking about. Smilex bravely attempts to explain it all to me; you tell me where to go to find more information. It seems you both are providing Te help, yet in different ways.

[Expat]

Thank you.

And, this is a great example of what I was talking about. Smilex bravely attempts to explain it all to me; you tell me where to go to find more information. It seems you both are providing Te help, yet in different ways.

Yes, but the way I see it is this.

Regarding Reinin Dichotomies, there is already material in writing, the original material (or as close to it as we have here). I find it much more efficient to point you towards that information than to explain it from scratch here. Of course, if you'd say that you don't understand that particular dichotomy, or the whole idea generally, I'd also explain.

When it comes to typing people, again, it's just more efficient and quick to just type the person, than try to teach someone how to type others, especially since there are no good sources on that.

[Minde]

Yes, but the way I see it is this.

Regarding Reinin Dichotomies, there is already material in writing, the original material (or as close to it as we have here). I find it much more efficient to point you towards that information than to explain it from scratch here. Of course, if you'd say that you don't understand that particular dichotomy, or the whole idea generally, I'd also explain.

When it comes to typing people, again, it's just more efficient and quick to just type the person, than try to teach someone how to type others, especially since there are no good sources on that.

Efficiency... yes. Very good point. A further explanation of my previous observations.

And, I agree very much with what you said earlier. Unless you know how to type people, socionics is pretty much useless.

At this point in my understanding, I hesitate to type people on my own. I don't want to mistype them and end up confusing myself and making incorrect assumptions and conclusions. Before I type people, I want to get a fairly thorough understanding of what it is I'm doing.

Right now, I know about various parts of the theory, but I'm missing much of the connective type stuff. I understand how the windows and doors work, so to speak, but I'm shaky in my foundation. I'd rather not start building on my own until I've got the underlying stuff a bit more settled and firm.

So, yes, it has more to do with the whole idea generally. And, for some reason, reading through those threads doesn't do much to help - which is by no means your fault.

[Smilingeyes]

Irony, my everlasting friend strikes again. I've also received good confirmation about a number of things I've been suspecting for a while. The first issue I need to mention is that I broke up with my INFj girl, essentially over the subtype difference but also because she found that she adored a certain INFp mutual friend of ours.

But there's more.

When telling this matter to a certain other INFj (of the ethical subtype). She immediately started dropping hints that 'she's available' despite the fact that she's been involved with someone for a couple of months now (an INTp as it happens). And more... This other INFj also happened to be semi-involved with me last spring, but back then I was still throwing too much Ni around. Anyway, at the moment I'm relieved of a difficult relation and experiencing vindication on the matter of some of my socionic opinions.

On the matter of my ex's crush, I did of course give her socionical advice on the matter, and she kind of believed me, but can't help her feelings anyway, as I expected. In the end I find myself pitying this affair, and wondering at what point did I make an error or if I indeed made one. I find the feelings of relief unbecoming. I should be more sad than I am. Nevertheless, I feel I will now be able to make wiser choices, again abandoning the standard socionic opinions in one more matter and accepting instead what I've seen in reality. This is correct and I must conduct my affairs responsibly in this matter in the future.

Perhaps this one should have gone to my Si blog, but my sense of irony does not permit me to do so. Please accept this as a continuation of my original post in the beginning of this thread.

Thank you.

And incidentally, to whom it may concern... I do on some rare occasions, make cupcakes.

[Minde]

Does this mean you don't want to be ESTj anymore?

[cracka]

Does this mean you don't want to be ESTj anymore?

i think it's more like he needs to not think of socionics as much as he does when it comes to women. :wink:

[Smilingeyes]

Does this mean you don't want to be ESTj anymore?

Oh, by no means. It's not as if I had been surprised by any of these turns of events or like I had shifted to ESTj for the sake of the relationship. Quite the opposite in both counts. It's for my health that I decided to make this altercation and for my health that I'm going to remain as I am for as long as it does me good.

@cracka: I am unable to perceive whether your message was more lacking in kindness or humourousness. A good day to you.

[cracka]

@cracka: I am unable to perceive whether your message was more lacking in kindness or humourousness. A good day to you.

Lacking in both if you think too far into it. Sorry if it spewed out the wrong way... You pretty much said what I said in different words earlier in your own post and i just put what you said into my own words... "again abandoning the standard socionic opinions in one more matter and accepting instead what I've seen in reality."

and a good day to you too.

[Smilingeyes]

@cracka: I am unable to perceive whether your message was more lacking in kindness or humourousness. A good day to you.

Lacking in both if you think too far into it. Sorry if it spewed out the wrong way... You pretty much said what I said in different words earlier in your own post and i just put what you said into my own words... "again abandoning the standard socionic opinions in one more matter and accepting instead what I've seen in reality."

and a good day to you too.

It's ok and so are you

[UDP]

Ordinary stuff.

[Beautiful sky]

Note to self to tackle this thread.

[LeaT]

Well, I don't understand why she'd write on her blog that you're seeing each other too often after you've met. Are you sure it's about you? That seems rather clumsily done even though I can understand that she might want to express herself some way in order to feel better. She should have been aware that you could read it though.

As for the rest, I can kind of understand and relate if she suffers from relationship anxiety. There's little you can do about it though. It's something she has to work with.

[Beautiful sky]

@cracka: I am unable to perceive whether your message was more lacking in kindness or humourousness. A good day to you.

Ok ^ was enough to get me to change my mind about your type. ISTp sounds awesome.

[Scapegrace]

My observation is that when an INFj needs to "blow off steam" (or when she cannot respond to an argument or criticism) she pretends to "ignore" you.

[Gilly]

Passive aggression of the sneakiest, most indirect kind. Grrrrr.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Does Smilingeyes even come around anymore? o_0

[Absurd]

My observation is that when an INFj needs to "blow off steam" (or when she cannot respond to an argument or criticism) she pretends to "ignore" you.

Know I know how to not-handle Jadae.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

currently browsing through Smiling's old posts. i'm fascinated. hope he's doing well.

[Beautiful sky]

Why? they are useless, full of misconceptions that were created upon other misconceptions, creative dogmas that are now very hard to break from. They are useless.