Elon Musk

[Adam Strange]

I’ve always had a mixed impression of Musk, as if he were a blend of two different types, or he was a new type altogether.

Today I saw his clone in the Kroger checkout line. He had that same mostly happy, sometimes sharp look in his eyes, disheveled hair, a Salvation Army quality outfit, and my god he looked and acted exactly like Musk. He was buying a single sack of potatoes.

His attention was focused on the woman he was with. She looked so much like an ESI but smiled like an SEI, as if she were also a blend of two types. She had on a cheap pink jacket with a fur-lined hood thrown back, and she only had eyes for him. Actually, they only had eyes for each other. Every once in a while, they would seek out each other’s hand to hold while they were waiting for the cashier.

I really wanted to approach them and ask for permission to take a video of them, but hey, even I have some social boundaries.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Home, O.H.P., ELON MUSK VOLATILE OR VILIFIED?. OCCASIONS ONLINE, p.96. (direct link to pdf file)

Personality and Public Perception
Recently, Musk has made the news for his antics more than his inventions. The media exposure, notably his retaliation to critics of his Thai cave rescue submarine, and a Tesla shareholder conference call telling concerned investors “should definitely not buy our stock” have raised questions about his business acumen and mental stability9. One interpretation of Musk’s controversial media appearances is that he is selfish, lacking in empathy, and attention seeking. The mainstream media now seems to think so; many recent articles have used these examples as evidence that he is an unstable narcissist who is unfit to run his companies, especially SpaceX and Tesla. Diagnostically speaking, the narcissist label is a gross oversimplification of Musk (his behaviors might meet two or three of the possible nine symptoms), yet his actions expose a man with a complicated personality10.

From the perspective of the big five personality traits theory, it appears that Musk is an introverted man very low in agreeableness, much like Steve Jobs of Apple. These traits partially explain some of the more undesirable behaviors Musk has recently engaged in: he comes across as self-centered, difficult to work with, and elitist. Musk also seems to fall high in the spectrums of conscientiousness and openness to experience as well based on his work ethic and constant innovation. Taking all of these traits into consideration, it is conceivable that he holds abnormally high standards for himself and his work. It seems that he believes in his capabilities, and would like other people to trust him based on his phenomenal track record. To many, this comes across as hubris, and much of the mainstream media and shareholders in his companies see this behavior as volatile. Musk is so valuable to the future of travel that many believe he cannot be trusted with creating it on his own terms, and should step out of the business side of his companies to focus on research and development. Undoubtedly Musk is a role model to so many people that not acting a such is a call for concern, and potential change.

There is undeniably a side of him that is responsible and focused on humanities problems. His desire to help people is evident in his podcast with Joe Rogan: “I think people should be nicer to each other, and give more credit to others”. He also said that helping others is what motivates him to be so productive in the interview6. Perhaps in the case of the cave submarine, Musk really was motivated out of compassion and tried to help in the only way he knew how, not some self-serving, attention hogging ploy. But when he is confronted on his intentions and methods he loses patience, which is more frequently occurring . Musk is an exceptional person with seemingly supernatural powers, but he is human with flaws after all. People who have stake in his enterprises seem to forget that however, and his mistakes are magnified to extreme proportions.

Whatever Elon does, he will be judged. Every achievement, every mistake; each action redefines the man. And there are growing pains that are inevitable with such a publicized life that is evolving as much as Musk’s innovation, most notably coming from people who have business interest in him. The mainstream media is quick to form a misconception that Musk is going off the rails and is unfit to run his companies, using evidence from his Twitter feed to do so. However, there are still many people who believe in Musk and his desire to help humanity. Just scrolling through the comments on Reddit and the Joe Rogan Experience podcast there seems to be a consensus that most accept his bizarreness with his genius, and wish for him to keep doing what he thinks is best. So in many respects the recent undesirable media attention he has received for having a personality is a gross oversimplification and should be taken with a grain of salt. Because Musk is complicated, but his intentions are good.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Vannella, F., 2020. The Traits of the Innovator: Five-Factor Model Analysis and Exemplification. (direct link to pdf file)

The powerful innovative force of Elon Musk makes him a case of particular interest to study. By using the FFM, the personality traits of this contemporary innovator are analyzed on the basis of his successful career and the behavior he has exhibited in different situations.

One of the Musk’s strongest suit is the high emotional stability (low neuroticism) he is able to maintain in difficult and stressful circumstances. As stated by one of his collaborators, in times of crisis ”Elon gets hyperrational [...] The harder it gets, the better he gets” [13]. He has continuously taken huge business risks by investing all his assets in innovative ventures, and he managed to solve all the crises he faced in a masterful way. Moreover, his incredible resilience makes him stronger after every wrong attempt. One of his most famous quotes affirm:”Failure is an option here. If things are not failing, you are not innovating enough” [18].

Musk always demonstrated an innate curiosity for knowledge and turned out to be an exceptional autodidact and thinker. He trained himself to a particular way of thinking consisting in ”Boil things down to the most fundamental truths. Then reason up from there”[19]. His extraordinary open-mindness allow him to seek very different innovations that are rapidly re-shaping human existence as we know it. Behind every Musk’s innovation, there is the visionary desire to make the world a better place as it is summarized in his thought: ”We need to figure out how to have the things we love, and not destroy the world” [20].

When it comes to investigating about Musk’s way to relations with colleagues and employees, there have been many episodes reported that point out his harsh nature in cases of contrasts with others. According to Matus, he often lashes out at employees if they are not following his guidelines or if they fail to live up to his expectations [21]. Also, The Journal reported that “some high-level managers quit or were fired after clashing with the chief executive over Mr. Musk’s insistence on doing things his way” [22].

At first glance, Musk could look like a very extroverted leader: he looks not afraid of public platforms, and he can be seen on stages making unveils of new products, charity speaking, connecting with customers, or asking for reviews and opinions. This impression could be misleading on his real nature: he declared that he is ”basically like an introverted engineer, so, it took a lot of practice and effort to be able to go up on stage and not just stammer basically”[23]. Nonetheless, he is able to transmit his profound motivations to the people that work with him and to push them up to their limit to achieve the best results possible.

For what concerns conscientiousness, Mr. Musk exhibits an extremely strong attitude to efficiency, hard-working, and organization. During an interview, he affirmed to work between 80 hours and 100 hours a week and he tends to be very organized and precise in everything he does [24]. One of his closest collaborators affirmed: ”He has the ability to work harder and endure more stress than anyone I have ever met” [13]. He always has alternatives in case of failures, as for the four failed launches in SpaceX, and his remarkable resiliency allows him to recover quickly from failures. As proved by the success of his companies, Musk is able to manage many businesses at the same time, staying focused on the main objectives, and he has a strong cogency that allows him to make the people believe in projects that could seem impossible to others.

[timber]

@timber You got me curious and I had to look up a little bit more on Sarah. I found this video from last year. I watched some of it with the sound on and then with the sound off. I'd still go EIE over ESE if you asked me (although I suppose she could still be classified ESE in Solcionics). The topics she talks about along with intonations and her face (interestingly, it seems there's not a whole lot of variability from culture to culture when it's the same type that's speaking); and then with the sound off and her serious face and how she looks up in the air and her expressions as if to organize what's inside it's an alarm that she is in love with what she likes to contemplate, she likes that state she is. And people like that, from what I’ve been able to gather from people, don’t just disengage from that state and go Si creative. My impression is that after a video like this ends she, who looks fairly social, doesn't rush to the kitchen to bake cookies for her children while she calls her friend to ask her to please let her be the one that's in charge of choosing the cake for a surprise birthday party, nor does she communicate with her kids' school to ask to be involved in organizing the class camping trip or whatever and she definitely doesn't have homemade sponge cake to offer visitors, etc. behaviors social ESEs are more likely to display. She also doesn't look ESE as per Filatova's pictures.

For comparison, a vivid and cliched example of ESE maybe Creative but not unlike the more social ESEs I’ve met.

No she's ESFj. This woman is a rational care giver, not Hamlet. There are brutally dishonest characatures for ESE on this site. More work needs to be done.

I saved SLE from the boondocks here, about 6 years ago. Looks like I might have to put in the effort for ESE.

[Rusal]

No she's ESFj. This woman is a rational care giver, not Hamlet. There are brutally dishonest characatures for ESE on this site. More work needs to be done.

I saved SLE from the boondocks here, about 6 years ago. Looks like I might have to put in the effort for ESE.

I don't deny there might be caricatures on the site, but what is the caricature here? Si creative for ESFj has been amply described by many authors.

Renin:
This type likes to experiment with food, to relish and “share” new tastes and various sensations: “Have you tried this? And that? Have you ever tried alternating hot and cold showers? It feels great! You should try!” A Hugo is a lover of delicatessens and cuisine expert.

Strati:
In cordiality, hospitality, the skill to host guests, and to organize some pastimes or a dinner the ESFj has no equal. The get-togethers organized by an ESFj always reflect the entire flame of his soul, all his happiness due to spending time with his friends. No one else can compete with the ESFj in the skill of creating an atmosphere of a holiday in conditions of drab, mundane workdays. The ESE can, for example, bring to work an enormous quantity of treats, like boxes of cookies and donuts, and arrange a small celebration for his colleagues - for no particular reason, simply because. The ESE loves to communicate and to speak with people, and, especially in old age, he may pay visits to his neighbors with a can of jam or a box of candies, sometimes of his own making, and sit over a cup of tea with them.
The ESFj usually enjoy making food in order to treat someone. Paying a visit to his home, one can watch as he is making food and saying: "Oy, this will be so tasty! Mmm. This will be something!" And indeed, something tasty comes out of it. If representatives of this type have an interest in food preparation, they often make for great culinary artists and cooks, despite their actual profession or career.
The ESFj becomes exceptionally active when matters concern the health of his loved ones. He storms the offices of doctors, takes off from work to run to the pharmacy, "pushes through" to get admitted to see the most renowned medical specialists.

ESE Female Portrait:

To live in her house means to live in a hospitable place. She cooks quickly, skillfully, tastefully, and plentifully. She does not mind to get up at 5 A.M. for her relatives, to bake pirogis, cook borsch, stock up on plov, make cutlets or other culinary masterpieces. Just so that everyone is fed and content. On the part of the household management, she will provide for everything.
Moreover, there would be no worries that she feeds them with the wrong food, doesn't them to bed in time, or forgets a doctor's visit. In the matters of care and upbringing, it is possible to rely on her completely.


Golihov
Si Creative for ESfJ: “I know how to cook sandwiches and I will be glad to someone to compete in it."
He is a specialist in physical comfort, sensory pleasures, he likes to deliver his people. He likes cooking, approaches this issue is very creative, though sometimes - too creative, as often dishes out too specific. Great experimenter in matters of a wide variety of sensory pleasures, loves their maximum diversity. ften - good masseurs. Always taking care of loved ones in the physical sense. Worn all day with offers close "but eat berry", "smell like a flower smells good," "and you want massazhik do?", "Maybe you want a candy with jam?". If someone asks them about some sensory pleasure - it can be difficult to deny, in this context, can sometimes come at a fairly strange territory pleasures simply because someone about something asked.

Filatova:
ESE willingly participates in the nonformal organization of different events – of birthdays, anniversaries, christmas for the children of coworkers, holiday expeditions, excursions; so long as she’s around interesting people she considers such her pleasure.

Bukalov:
"Hugo" loves to create comfort and coziness, lead his home in the aesthetic appearance, likes to work with his hands, perfectly prepared and delicious.

ESE composite:
The ESE is naturally good at organizing recreation, and getting people to chill out and enjoy themselves—ESEs are aware of and attuned to people's tastes and personal preferences and they like to do things or give things to friends and family members that will let them enjoy themselves,

Gulenko’s subtypes + some comments by me:

ESE-C
proactive and good with large groups

They typically cook well or are very interested in the culinary arts.
They willingly accept the role of organizer of birthday parties for friends and colleagues or any other celebration.
They typically have a good memory for details from their environment. For example, they can arrange a beautiful bouquet of flowers just from seeing a florist do it a couple of times.
They can work and audience and can have good comic timing.
With pleasure they take upon themselves the hustle of booking hotels, tours, etc. for the family or the group they belong to when the holiday season is coming. They are very efficient coordinating everything, they easily communicate with the right people and select the best means of transportation, etc. Just tell them you were thinking of getting away and next day they’ll probably have an itinerary ready.
They love to travel (alone or in groups) and do it as much as they can. In their travels they meet people and socialize very easily.
They might get fan girl or fanboy mindsets when they are adults well into their 30s; they might fall for K-POP, for example, and buy all the merchandise and follow dramas or series religiously.
They are talkative in the sense that they seem to talk to an audience and at times it's as if they are giving the ‘audience’ a step-by-step explanation of what they're doing in real time: speaking this way seems natural to them.
When you try to picture this person's attitude or manner of communication when they are in a group of people, imagine a hotel manager dealing with the people under them or the main chef in a kitchen organizing the other cooks. The soul of the place. They can be imposing in that sense, but they're wicked charismatic and friendly.

ESE-H
They are concerned about financial stability and are mindful of their expenses.
They are more serious and less demonstrative than ESE-C.
They are responsible and can work well on a schedule.
They cook deliciously. They tend to keep homemade snacks in their pantry. They offer to cook for other people to nourish them.
They pay attention to the beauty of objects. If they receive a vase as a present, for example, they might study its design and comment on it. It's the same with other objects, clothes.
They are rather efficient in everyday matters.
They impact their close environment in the following manner: if they purchase a chair and find that it's not very comfortable in less than 24 hours they'll assemble a cushion using stuffing from old ones and the drape they use for it will match the chair.
They tend to alter and sometimes even create their own clothes and be proud of their creations.
They are likely to keep a lush garden, they find comfort in beauty and seem to be the type of people to make beauty happen wherever they set. They also seem the type of people to be more likely to grow their own food if they could (although this also applies to other types I guess).
They are rather lovable people.

ESE description by Gulenko:
He is caring and hospitable and knows how to create comfort from what he has at hand. ESE watches out for the well-being of his loved ones. He enjoys giving gifts and doing pleasant things for others. He’s an excellent organizer of events, vacations and celebrations. He enjoys receiving guests and loves holiday dinners and gatherings. ESE knows who to invite, how to behave, what to serve, and how to leave a positive impression.

Si creative description on Wikisocion:

The individual is naturally good at organizing relaxing activities and recreation and making sure people are calm and enjoying themselves. The individual is attuned to people's tastes and personal preferences and likes to do things for or give things to friends and family members that will cause them to enjoy themselves and gain pleasure

I like to quote, as you can see . I brought up the subtypes with comments by me because I've been around ESEs and I cannot stress how different they are from Sarah. It's funny because as we discuss here, something tells me common sense would deal with this more quickly. If you showed her to people that have never heard of socionics and asked them their impression of her, they'd go over the library of people they’ve met and try to form an association and, just like me, they’d subconsciously come to the conclusion that what we allude to here as “Si-creative” attributes do not apply to her. I repeat, it’s been my experience that the type of women that I've met that are like Sarah that they have no ‘Si’ to offer and cannot lay ‘caregiving’ on anyone. I do believe you're mistyping, so this is why plain, old Socionics descriptions sound like caricatures. I get you but after you've spent time with ESEs their Alpha SF-ness is going to hit you at some point; with women like Sarah, no.

[Vis]

Wow he's not an elegant speaker. The lack of Ne and Fe makes it impossible for him to be ILE or LII. His Se/Si is abysmal so in no way is he LSI. LIE would have more flair with demonstrative Ne and activating Se so he's also not likely LIE.

From how he talks, ILI is more likely. Looking at his career though, unlike most ILIs, his use of Te is on a very large scale and organizational level. This might be seen as evidence for LIE. But unlike most LIEs, his "goals" are ridiculously ambitious and out there (Ni leading Fi activating Ne ignoring), unlike typical LIE's more prudent and likelier to succeed business goals (Te leading Se activating Ne demonstrative). Maybe his apparent large scale Te is due to family influence/help?

Also I agree with this:

For some year now I have had him as being ILI. Why ILI and not LIE? Mostly because of demonstrative Ti. One thing I notice from him is when he get a question or is starting to explain something he get silent for a while and then start from an end which he picks. It is like he is telling a story of logic which lead him to the explanation to why. The character of his Se does not strike me very LIE. And there was one interview he had with an EIE that gave me the supervisor ITR vibes. Whatever type he is a very futuristic guy.

I'm not invested in it and not going to defend my typing.

[Adam Strange]

Wow he's not an elegant speaker. The lack of Ne and Fe makes it impossible for him to be ILE or LII. His Se/Si is abysmal so in no way is he LSI. LIE would have more flair with demonstrative Ne and activating Se so he's also not likely LIE.

From how he talks, ILI is more likely. Looking at his career though, unlike most ILIs, his use of Te is on a very large scale and organizational level. This might be seen as evidence for LIE. But unlike most LIEs, his "goals" are ridiculously ambitious and out there (Ni leading Fi activating Ne ignoring), unlike typical LIE's more prudent and likelier to succeed business goals (Te leading Se activating Ne demonstrative).

Maybe his apparent large scale Te is due to family influence/help?

Also I agree with this:


I'm not invested in it and not going to defend my typing.

@Vis, I think Elon's mother is SEE. Here's a picture of her looking like @woofwoofl's twin sister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maye_Musk

I read a post by Atrios the other day where he said. "Musk has been running both a consumer scam and an investor scam for years. He has just managed, through many creative ways, to keep the stock price up, outrunning reality."

This seems like something an ILI could easily do.

I'm not entirely convinced that Musk is ILI, but you make a pretty good case for it.

[Vis]

@Vis, I think Elon's mother is SEE. Here's a picture of her looking like @woofwoofl's twin sister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maye_Musk

I read a post by Atrios the other day where he said. "Musk has been running both a consumer scam and an investor scam for years. He has just managed, through many creative ways, to keep the stock price up, outrunning reality."

This seems like something an ILI could easily do.

I'm not entirely convinced that Musk is ILI, but you make a pretty good case for it.

I found some tough looking pictures of his mother but not sure of her type yet. I hope his businesses are not scams because they are interesting sounding ideas But he does seem to stretch himself too thin in certain ways and triggered too much Ne public attention (ILIs don't handle Ne well. IEEs are better at that, e.g. Steve Jobs)

I don't know Musk and his businesses too well. To achieve something takes both visions and understandings of how to balance life. I wouldn't call it scamming simply because someone failed to do something they wanted to do, if they have made an honest effort. But if they have lost balance they may start to lie to themselves about what they are actually doing and that leads to scamming.

[Rusal]

No she's ESFj. This woman is a rational care giver, not Hamlet. There are brutally dishonest characatures for ESE on this site. More work needs to be done.

I saved SLE from the boondocks here, about 6 years ago. Looks like I might have to put in the effort for ESE.

Cont’d on Sarah, I guess.

Another reason I deter from ESE for her is that it would mean she activates ILE, for which there would need to be a movement towards engaging her Creative in a different way. Just as I find it hard for her to be a Si creative, I find it even harder that a woman like her can impersonate a Si lead. That would mean providing Ne with the endless Si concreteness in communication and behavior. That implies that she replies back at an ILE taking her sweet time explaining how to prepare a dish; recounting to the last detail what happened the last time she bought prunes from the moment she left the house to when she entered the supermarket with highlights related to internal physical sensations; how important it is to do such and such if one wants to ‘feel’ good (related to something physiological); or the anecdote of just how good the wine tasted last time she visited Europe that came out of nowhere in the middle conversation and that used up all the 20 of lunch, employed also to speak of the changes in wine-making of the last 30 years. This style of communication is very patent in SEIs and there’s a reason why while I can imagine someone like Tabitha (the woman in my video example of someone who is more like an ESE) making a few small alteration in her interaction to incarnate the initial Si lead impression it’s an impossibility with Sarah. Again, common sense to the rescue: show her to any group of people, let them hear her talk and they will figure her out like that. My experience goes in the same direction but there's not much I can transmit there. It's personal.

LOL at the ILI suggestion. I can only imagine what it’s going to look like when ‘victim’ Musk meets aggressor SEE.

[Vis]

The interviewer woman: might be ESE. Conflicting relation can be exciting (a lot of LIIs married SEEs) at a distance, and the problems only appear after close contact. As an ILI I feel energized in her presence, not so much by Fe but because of the playful demonstrative Se. With EIEs there'd be more mystique and scare

[Rusal]

The interviewer woman: might be ESE. Conflicting relation can be exciting (a lot of LIIs married SEEs) at a distance, and the problems only appear after close contact.

Conflicting relationships can feel like a comedy of errors, never reaching this level of noticeable ease. Musk lacks the flowiness and 'uncertainty' of a Ni lead in his speaking (he's rather 'square' and to the point) and from what we know of his personal life, he applies pressure on Ni leads in the natural and persistent way of a Se ego. The woman as a Si creative...well.

[Vis]

Conflicting relationships can feel like a comedy of errors, never reaching this level of noticeable ease. Musk lacks the flowiness and 'uncertainty' of a Ni lead in his speaking (he's rather 'square' and to the point) and from what we know of his personal life, he applies pressure on Ni leads in the natural and persistent way of a Se ego. The woman as a Si creative...well.

I hear plenty of hesitations in his speech that indicates Se suggestive uncertainty, and none of the aggressor style of beta STs (as well as lacking Fe flowiness. Yes Fe also has "flowiness").
In that interview video he's not entirely "at ease": he did feel the need to prove himself in Se/Fe so he's being more activated, though the ESE interviewer is much more blunt than typical SEEs, pushing with demonstrative Se but not "receiving" the Te well. This is not the type of real "flow" between duals. Anyways this comes to NeFe territory I'm not confident with. Sure, let's agree to disagree then.

[Rusal]

I hear plenty of hesitations in his speech that indicates Se suggestive uncertainty,

Can you name some examples?

and none of the aggressor style of beta STs

Personal life indicates that maybe yes.

though the ESE interviewer is much more blunt than typical SEEs

The ESE typing at first glance for Sarah I can understand: rational, Fe ego. Whatever. But what boggles my mind is that there are people that think she activates ILE. Stop it, you're going to break Socionics lol.

[Rusal]

So as discussion came up of whether Musk manifests Ni in his speech, since ILI was proposed for him, we're going to try and see if Musk is a dynamic/Ni type. What I'll briefly do is quote 2 full paragraphs belonging to interviews with Musk and Mark Zuckerberg (ILI) for comparison and a couple of other excerpts. Both first paragraphs refer to ‘what the government should/could do’ type of situation (which are different and not related to one another obviously).

Zuckerberg: Yeah. I don't think that that's what this is, though, right? I think it's you can say that kind of any regulation around what someone says online is protected. But I think that that's clearly not right today. I mean, we already do have regulations around what you can do, in terms of political advertising. And even without getting into saying, you know, "Okay, here's the type of content. And here's what we're going to define as, you know, hate speech," for example -- I still think it would be a positive step to demand that companies issue transparency reports around, well, here's the amount of content on your service or that is every kind of harmful category. Here's the amount of hate speech. Here's the amount of misinformation. Here's the amount of bullying of children. Because by making that transparent, that puts more pressure on companies in order to be able to manage that. And people, publicly, can see which companies are actually doing a good job and improving and which ones need to do more. I'm actually -- we release our transparency report on how we're proactively finding all of these harmful kinds of content. Today, it's every six months. But I've committed that we're going to get to every quarter. Because I actually think that it's as important -- that kind of a transparency report around content, as the quarterly financial statements that we report. I mean, this is, like, really critical stuff for society. So I don't think that anyone would say that having companies have to be transparent about the amounts of harmful content is any kind of First Amendment issue.

Musk: I think we generally could have better airports, better highways. Especially in cities that are congested, we’ve got to do something to deal with extreme traffic, which, I think, is some combination of double-deckering freeways and building tunnels. But if we don’t do something, we will be stuck in traffic forever. And as autonomous vehicles come to the fore, and it’s easier to drive without going through the pain of having to drive yourself, which is absolutely coming and will be one of the biggest transformations ever in human civilization. There will be more cars on the road. And, the traffic will get much worse. And so we really need to do some combination of tunnels or, like I said, double-deckering freeways. I’m not a big believer in flying cars. They’re basically helicopters with wheels. And people don’t want the skies to be swarming with helicopters. So it’s tunnels and double-deckering freeways. We don’t have a traffic problem in suburbs, we have a traffic problem on freeways because they’re just too small and did not anticipate the size of the urban environments that we currently experience. So, yeah. But I don’t see a strong effort in this direction.

If you're reading this, you might want to read those two paragraphs again. Musk's speech pattern is that of a Static type. His speech evolves in discrete, episodic events describing states rather than what’s said being ‘a process’:

And as autonomous vehicles come to the fore// There will be more cars on the road// And traffic will become much worse// And we really need to do something// They're basically helicopters with wheels// We don’t have a traffic problem // I don't see a strong effort…

Contrast that to Zucker's dynamic Ni seeing things from ‘inside the process’ as a continuous sequence:

I mean, we already do have regulations around what you can do, in terms of political advertising. And even without getting into saying, you know, "Okay, here's the type of content. And here's what we're going to define as, you know, hate speech," for example -- I still think it would be a positive step to demand that companies issue transparency reports around, well, here's the amount of content on your service or that is every kind of harmful category. Here's the amount of hate speech. Here's the amount of misinformation. Here's the amount of bullying of children. Because by making that transparent, that puts more pressure on companies in order to be able to manage that.

Notice the ‘movement’: you're listening to this and the impression is that the speaker is in the middle of what's happening as he's talking about how things evolve. That's dynamic + Ni's “time”. Ni is not about following a situation. Any Static type can describe what they did yesterday or what will happen. But what they don't do is lay it in Static language. Ni is not strictly about uncertainty either, as I redo what I said or or express doubt or correct myself if I’m still talking in Static-episodic terms. ‘Uncertainty’ in Ni leads has to be dynamic.

Now imagine you're an SEE, a Static type yourself and you meet your dual ‘ILI’ Elon Musk, and this is what comes out of his mouth (more obvious Satatic-y bits highlighted for more didactic fun):

Elon Musk: First of all, I pay a lot of tax. I mean, my marginal tax rate is, like, 53%. So that’s not trivial. And then obviously there’s asset-based taxes. The sales tax and everything else. There’s also the estate tax. And generally, I think the estate tax is a good tax. Like, if you think of assets beyond a certain level that are far beyond, let’s say, somebody’s ability to consume, then at a certain point, really what you’re doing is capital allocation. So it’s not money for personal expenditures, what you’re doing is capital allocation. And it does not make sense to take the job of capital allocation away from people who have demonstrated great skill in capital allocation and give it to an entity that has demonstrated very poor skill in capital allocation, which is the government. I mean, you could think of the government essentially as a corporation. The government is simply the biggest corporation with the monopoly on violence. And where you have no recourse. So how much money do you want to…

This is not dynamic Ni. This does not create the optimal psychological closeness between the SEE and ILI. This will more likely work better:

Zuckerberg: And so one of the things that we have gotten quite good at is finding patterns of behavior, right? So if you're Russia, for example, and you're setting up 1,000 fake accounts that are going to operate in some coordinated way as part of an information campaign, then those accounts aren't really behaving the way that normal people on Facebook or WhatsApp or Instagram are behaving. So you could build automated systems that can flag those. Or we can build partnerships with the intelligence community. And often, they'll give us a tip and say, "Hey we think that there might be some bad activity coming from this IP range somewhere".

Notice how Zuckerberg appears in the middle of it all, not as if he were looking at the action from outside as Musk pointing at things and describing them, but rather inside the situation that is in constant moving, changing. Now please understand that “non-Static” type doesn’t mean “you can’t never say something that resembles a snapshot of reality”, but it’s a very marked tendency of how a person communicates and you can tell if you watch an interview with Zucker and then Musk. Musk IMO is an evident Static type and that cancels out both ILI and LIE for him. (I haven't really checked but it'd be expected that Static used more stative verbs and dynamics did go for ‘dynamic’ verbs and they're seeing things as from inside and are moving with them).

[timber]

Cont’d on Sarah, I guess.

Another reason I deter from ESE for her is that it would mean she activates ILE, for which there would need to be a movement towards engaging her Creative in a different way. Just as I find it hard for her to be a Si creative, I find it even harder that a woman like her can impersonate a Si lead. That would mean providing Ne with the endless Si concreteness in communication and behavior. That implies that she replies back at an ILE taking her sweet time explaining how to prepare a dish; recounting to the last detail what happened the last time she bought prunes from the moment she left the house to when she entered the supermarket with highlights related to internal physical sensations; how important it is to do such and such if one wants to ‘feel’ good (related to something physiological); or the anecdote of just how good the wine tasted last time she visited Europe that came out of nowhere in the middle conversation and that used up all the 20 of lunch, employed also to speak of the changes in wine-making of the last 30 years. This style of communication is very patent in SEIs and there’s a reason why while I can imagine someone like Tabitha (the woman in my video example of someone who is more like an ESE) making a few small alteration in her interaction to incarnate the initial Si lead impression it’s an impossibility with Sarah. Again, common sense to the rescue: show her to any group of people, let them hear her talk and they will figure her out like that. My experience goes in the same direction but there's not much I can transmit there. It's personal.

LOL at the ILI suggestion. I can only imagine what it’s going to look like when ‘victim’ Musk meets aggressor SEE.

The creative function is interesting, because it can be obvious, or subdued, depending on the circumstances. I like to think of it as the main contact function. Contacting being a word that means "effects that which is being touched", or "in close proximity". If something is not being touched, then there is no contact and thus no need.

ESFj is still Fe base. For Sarah, her Fe is impeccable. I just don't understand why ESFj has to be this sort of talking, basic imbecile. Why can't they sit back, like Sarah, and engage when the moment calls for it?

Besides, I know this isn't good argumentation, but she reminds me of several ESE woman I personally know. She has a ESE aesthetic as well.

[IMG]http://media.bizj.us/view/img/4460391/2401222368b97aed0115o*1200xx3683-2070-0-198.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/max/584/1*iegEBEa_fQziOzM-_7eJ5w.png[/IMG]

[Rusal]

For full comparison.

Interviewer: So, we want to spend the time today talking about your view of the future and what people should work on. To start off, could you tell us, you famously said, when you were younger, there were five problems that you thought were most important for you to work on. If you were 22 today, what would the five problems that you would think about working on be?

Elon: Well, first of all, I think if somebody is doing something that is useful to the rest of society, I think that's a good thing. Like, it doesn't have to change the world. If you make something that has high value to people... And frankly, even if it's something, if it's like just a little game or some improvement in photo sharing or something, if it has a small amount of good for a large number of people, I think that's fine. Stuff doesn't need to change the world just to be good. But in terms of things that I think are most like to affect the future of humanity, I think AI is probably the single biggest item in the near-term that's likely to affect humanity.

And then, I think, having a high-bandwidth interface to the brain. We're currently bandwidth-limited. We have a digital tertiary self in the form of out email capabilities, our computers, phones, applications. We're practically superhuman. But we're extremely bandwidth-constrained in that interface between the cortex and that tertiary digital form of yourself. And helping solve that bandwidth constraint would be, I think, very important in the future as well. Yeah.

Interviewer: How should someone figure out how they can be most useful?

Elon: Well, I think you make some estimates of, whatever this thing is that you're trying to create, what would be the utility delta compared to the current state of the art times how many people it would affect. So that's why I think having something that makes a big difference but affects sort of small to moderate number of people is great, as is something that makes even a small difference but affects a vast number of people..

Interviewer: When you're trying to estimate probability of success, so this thing will be really useful, good area under the curve...I guess to use the example of SpaceX, when you made the go-decision that you were actually going to do that, this was kind of a very crazy thing at the time.

Elon: Very crazy. For sure. They were not shy of saying that. But I agreed with them that it was quite crazy. Crazy...if the objective was to achieve the best risk adjusted return, starting off a company is insane. But that was not my objective. I'd soon come to a conclusion that if something didn't happen to improve rocket technology, we'd be stuck on earth forever. And the big aerospace companies had just had no interest in radical innovation. All they wanted to do was try to make their old technology slightly better every year. And in fact, sometimes it would actually get worse. Particularly in rockets, it was pretty bad. In '69 we were able to go to the moon with the Saturn 5. And then the space shuttle could only take people to low-earth orbit. And then the space shuttle retired. And that trend basically trends to zero. People sometimes think technology just automatically gets better every year but actually it doesn't. It only gets better if smart people work like crazy to make it better. That's how any technology actually gets better. By itself, technology, if people don't work at it, actually will decline. Look at the history of civilizations, many civilizations. Look at, say, ancient Egypt, where they were able to build these incredible pyramids and then they basically forgot how to build pyramids. And even hieroglyphics. They forgot how to read hieroglyphics. Or if you look at Rome and how they were able to build these incredible roadways and aqueducts and indoor plumbing, they forgot how to do all of those things. There are many such examples in history. So I think we should always bear in mind that entropy is not on your side.

Oh, yeah, I bet he sounds so much like a Ni-lead in those first 3 videos. lol.
Musk is a Static type. The identifiable structures should bring him closer to Angela Merkel, also a Static Ti type (LII). I mean, read this and be stunned by the lack of ‘internal mobility’ in what she says:

FT: Can we begin with G20 summit in Seoul? I have the impression that the G20 is divided into two camps: debtors and creditors. How can one forge a new consensus?

Angela Merkel: For a start, I think the G20 is a very interesting size, because it brings together the traditional industrial countries and the emerging countries, which means that almost 90 per cent of global gross domestic product is sitting at one table. We can work well together in this framework, and especially in the global economic crisis, the G20 has proved its worth.
Now that we are hopefully moving again towards sustainable global growth, the challenge is to develop the G20 agenda further. That begins now, and will be the main task of the French presidency in the coming year. The member states are all in different situations. It’s true that many industrialised countries have a high level of public borrowing, and other countries have substantial assets. But this difference is not decisive in G20 co-operation.

FT: But isn’t there a fundamental imbalance in the G20 between those with the debtors and the asset-holders?

AM: As I said, the traditional industrial countries, whether it’s the European member states or the USA or Japan, are highly indebted. Others, especially China, have huge reserves. That is precisely why we agreed in Toronto that the industrial countries should halve their indebtedness by 2013 – and we Germans are working hard to do just that

FT: But how great is the danger of excessive exchange rate competition, especially in the light of the latest quantitative easing by the US Federal Reserve Bank?

AM: The G20 has repeatedly stressed that the crisis can only be overcome if we dismantle all forms of obstruction, and do not erect new ones. And one can see that there are some developments which we must discuss seriously. Take world trade: the signal should be given by Seoul that we are sounding the bell for the last phase of negotiations to complete the Doha round (of trade talks). We have been talking about it for many years, but there is another chance in 2011 to complete it at last. Unfortunately, trade barriers are being erected again on many sides, through customs duties and sometimes through preferences for domestic producers in public contracts. We must avoid actions like that, and talk about them very openly

Now compare them both to Zuckerberg, a dynamic Ni lead:

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you for doing this. You've made so many, it appears, big, new moves, recently, talking about regulation, talking about privacy, talking about new ways of doing the news business. Is the big message from you, right now-- "Facebook gets it. We're going to change?"
MARK ZUCKERBERG: Well, yeah. I think in a lot of ways, over the last few years, we have changed, significantly, how we've run the company. We are, you know, dealing with a lot of major social issues, right, everything from policing harmful content, to protecting the integrity of elections, to making sure that data privacy controls are strong. And the big journey that we've been on, over the last few years, is really getting much more proactive about seeking out where there might be issues and making sure we're investing appropriately to handle them. You know, we now are doing way more on each of those fronts, in order to identify issues that come up and get ahead.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And how do you respond to someone who says, "But wait a second. That's your responsibility. It's your platform. It's your company?"
ZUCKERBERG: Well, I think, broadly, we would say that setting the rules around political advertising is not a company's job, right? I mean, there's been plenty of the rules in the past. It's just that, at this point they're not updated to the modern threats that we face or the modern kinds of nation state trying to interfere in each other's elections. We need new rules, right? It's not, you can't say that an election is just some period before people go to vote. I mean, the kind of information operations that these folks are trying to do now are ongoing, permanently. So I just think that we need new rules on this. Now, at Facebook, we're doing the best that we can on each of these issues. But I think, ideally, you would have standards that you would want all of the major companies to be abiding by.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're already seeing the FCC push back fairly hard against this, two commissioners, I think, saying, "No, we don't want to get into the business of policing the First Amendment."
ZUCKERBERG: Yeah. I don't think that that's what this is, though, right? I think it's you can say that kind of any regulation around what someone says online is protected. But I think that that's clearly not right today. I mean, we already do have regulations around what you can do, in terms of political advertising. And even without getting into saying, you know, "Okay, here's the type of content. And here's what we're going to define as, you know, hate speech," for example -- I still think it would be a positive step to demand that companies issue transparency reports around, well, here's the amount of content on your service or that is every kind of harmful category. Here's the amount of hate speech. Here's the amount of misinformation. Here's the amount of bullying of children. Because by making that transparent, that puts more pressure on companies in order to be able to manage that. And people, publicly, can see which companies are actually doing a good job and improving and which ones need to do more. I'm actually -- we release our transparency report on how we're proactively finding all of these harmful kinds of content. Today, it's every six months. But I've committed that we're going to get to every quarter. Because I actually think that it's as important -- that kind of a transparency report around content, as the quarterly financial statements that we report. I mean, this is, like, really critical stuff for society. So I don't think that anyone would say that having companies have to be transparent about the amounts of harmful content is any kind of First Amendment issue.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So can you drill down in on it a little more? What do you envision when you see this regulation? Who's doing it? What exactly are they doing?
ZUCKERBERG: Well, it's different things in each category. For policing harmful content, I think it should start with transparency of every major internet service about-- take any-- every single category of harmful content. And I think you should have to, basically, report what the prevalence of that? So what percent of the content on your service is, you know, inciting violence, for example, or hate speech? And then you should have to report how much of that you identified proactively and built systems to go get and be able to manage -- versus how much of it did someone in your community have to tell you about, and you had to deal with it reactively? So that's the first step, is transparency.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Really?
ZUCKERBERG: Yeah. Because well, think about it this way. You know, if you watch a TV station, right, and that's your main one, or you read a couple of newspapers, and those are your main ones, those have certain editorial points of view and consistency. Whereas, if you have 200 friends on social media, you're probably going to be friends with people, even if most of your friends are democrats or republicans or one religion or another religion, you're going to have some friends who aren't. And you're going to be surfaced more content from other sides of debates, too. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't issues. I mean, people can go deep on a community. And that can end up having negative consequences. You know, most things don't, right? I mean, I'm a member of communities for people who like playing a certain computer game or like playing guitars, like I do. And you know, that's not, I think, going to take me down some path to be radicalized on anything. But there are harmful communities. And we need to do a good job of steering people away from those, for sure, and making sure that we're not encouraging filter bubbles and harmful things.

[ILoveChinchillas]

LSI ...

[Ibreen]

The guy Has the same vibe as my LIE uncle and they look nothing alike. Lower lid covering part of his eye. Gentle head shakes. They talk the same way. My uncle loves to use technical words casually As a way to show off his smarts.

I went with the consensus of Elon being LSI until I saw how similar he was to my uncle. He’s LIE.

[Rusal]

The guy Has the same vibe as my LIE uncle and they look nothing alike. Lower lid covering part of his eye. Gentle head shakes. They talk the same way. My uncle loves to use technical words casually As a way to show off his smarts.

I went with the consensus of Elon being LSI until I saw how similar he was to my uncle. He’s LIE.

Not a Dynamic type.

[Ibreen]

Not a Dynamic type.

No static type would be able to build an institution this large and run this smoothly without massive amounts of Je. It’s not even about ability at this point, it’s about motivation. No Ji user decides to run a big company without it falling apart because of their decision to remain authentic to their inner values (Fi) or convoluted logic (Ti).

[Rusal]

No static type would be able to build an institution this large and run this smoothly without massive amounts of Je. It’s not even about ability at this point, it’s about motivation. No Ji user decides to run a big company without it falling apart because of their decision to remain authentic to their inner values (Fi) or convoluted logic (Ti).

If that's what we can draw from this then we should have to close shop, then, and type only in accordance to career and position. No use for this sub-forum. Only, Socionics is about something else, isn't it? As anyone who is correctly typed and has had experience with duality, an LIE doesn't need to state anything about the distant future of his enterprise to ‘click’ with an ESI if they randomly strike up conversation at a party although s/he may choose to say something at some point. Communication filtered through the functions is what makes someone enthusiastic in contact with another person or just nod politely and feel they have nothing to offer, as is the case with unfavorable ITR. So what is really happening there? It's about communication and the correctly understood role of functions. Discussion about ‘Si suggestive’, ‘Te ignoring’, ‘Se polr’, 'inner Fi values' etc. is useful for further insight into a type but his Ego functions should be accessible and more ‘evident’. So coming to a conclusion about the most apparent part of a person maybe is the way, because ESIs will want Te and Ti (static, which is the ‘coherence and structure’ layer in longer speeches and ‘clear’ in the ‘Ti way’) will not really move that much in them. Now it's been the ‘tested’ tradition of Socionics that Ti types can be Ne or Se Creative and the makeup of such psyches inversely matches that of Fe-bases so that's the types they're going to get along better with, give or take. Inventing the Fe valuing EII, the Se valuing ILE or the Ti suggestive ESI is not something I think we're ready for.

[Ibreen]

If that's what we can draw from this then we should have to close shop, then, and type only in accordance to career and position. No use for this sub-forum. Only, Socionics is about something else, isn't it? As anyone who is correctly typed and has had experience with duality, an LIE doesn't need to state anything about the distant future of his enterprise to ‘click’ with an ESI if they randomly strike up conversation at a party although s/he may choose to say something at some point. Communication filtered through the functions is what makes someone enthusiastic in contact with another person or just nod politely and feel they have nothing to offer, as is the case with unfavorable ITR. So what is really happening there? It's about communication and the correctly understood role of functions. Discussion about ‘Si suggestive’, ‘Te ignoring’, ‘Se polr’, 'inner Fi values' etc. is useful for further insight into a type but his Ego functions should be accessible and more ‘evident’. So coming to a conclusion about the most apparent part of a person maybe is the way, because ESIs will want Te and Ti (static, which is the ‘coherence and structure’ layer in longer speeches and ‘clear’ in the ‘Ti way’) will not really move that much in them. Now it's been the ‘tested’ tradition of Socionics that Ti types can be Ne or Se Creative and the makeup of such psyches inversely matches that of Fe-bases so that's the types they're going to get along better with, give or take. Inventing the Fe valuing EII, the Se valuing ILE or the Ti suggestive ESI is not something I think we're ready for.

⇎_⇎

[hellohellohello]

Introverted Thinking & Extraverted Intuition are apparent, LII.

[Fake Intellectual]

For some year now I have had him as being ILI. Why ILI and not LIE? Mostly because of demonstrative Ti. One thing I notice from him is when he get a question or is starting to explain something he get silent for a while and then start from an end which he picks. It is like he is telling a story of logic which lead him to the explanation to why. The character of his Se does not strike me very LIE. And there was one interview he had with an EIE that gave me the supervisor ITR vibes. Whatever type he is a very futuristic guy.


In the Socion the ILI is told of as being the one who collect knowledge of the past to apply it in the now and to the future. Kind of the guy who find pieces and build something with the already known for a long time and make it more efficient and fully optimized.

Do LIEs not collect knowledge and apply it? I'm pretty sure both types do that.

[nifl]

Do LIEs not collect knowledge and apply it? I'm pretty sure both types do that.

it's usual activity for all Te egos

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

LIE through and through
LIE Ni maybe

[on a peaceful hiatus]

LIE through and through
LIE Ni maybe

Typing Sorelle Amore as the same type as Elon Musk seems questionable to me to say the least.
.
https://youtu.be/Bf1XbQ__hKw

(Unless both are IEI ofc)

[Rusal]

Once again: Fe valuing.

[welcometomania]

the expressions seem to resemble these more imo

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

the expressions seem to resemble these more imo


Attachment 18069 Attachment 18070

i feel bad and betrayed why is he such a narcissistic LII

[welcometomania]

i feel bad and betrayed why is he such a narcissistic LII

lollll

i'm not saying i'm 100% sure he's LII btw! just pointing out some visual expression similarities..

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

lollll

i'm not saying i'm 100% sure he's LII btw! just pointing out some visual expression similarities..

i think ur right still, ppl may not neatly fit into a type but this just shows he may be a LII with more LIE in him than usual

[Rusal]

IMO It'd be unlikely for types with vulnerable Se or Alpha NT in general to have not 1 but 2 ex wives accusing him of being an impenetrable fortress that stomps on them and cannot give an inch and that has tight working rules like 'bring me something or fail within the humanly expected and you're fired ' and generally behaving like an oppressor more focused on the leash he has people on rather than an creator with head in the clouds.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

IMO It'd be unlikely for types with vulnerable Se or Alpha NT in general to have not 1 but 2 ex wives accusing him of being an impenetrable fortress that stomps on them and cannot give an inch and that has tight working rules like 'bring me something or fail within the humanly expected and you're fired ' and generally behaving like an oppressor more focused on the leash he has people on rather than an creator with head in the clouds.

albert einstein was controlling and abusive towards his wife as well

[Rusal]

IDK about Einstein being Alpha NT if that's what you're implying but complaints against Musk regarding interpersonal relationships is that he seemed to exchange wife for employee and then apply a rather impersonal non differentiation of his ‘subordinates’ and pressure them to be trophy-wives, go blonder, while he drove flashy expensive cars. Power, exposure. That combined does not sound like alpha NT.

[Lord Pixel]

How can you be that socially awkward and LIE. It's because he's ILI. How nerdy he looked smoking a joint with Joe Rogan, was way too 1D Se lol.

[Not A Communist Shill]

It's difficult for me to see Musk as a strong introvert when he seems to have so many affairs.

[Aster]

He’s very odd. I think he could be an alien or one of the lizard people.

Aliens might have different kinds of types. You never know

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Aliens might have different kinds of types. You never know

almost like those INxx types that go through life disconnected from reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtlZJjNh1Mw

Generally I look for a positive attitude and.. are they easy to work with? are people going to like working with them? it's very important to like the people you work with otherwise your job is going to be quite miserable.

It's as if he's a person who thinks a lot about interpersonal dynamics.

the hiring mistakes in the past that I've made, it's looking too much at their intellectual capability alone and not on how they affect those around them. What really matter is how they are as an individual and how they affect others around them. it is important to weigh personality and... are they going to be a good person? Will people like working with them? it does make a difference.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

IDK about Einstein being Alpha NT if that's what you're implying but complaints against Musk regarding interpersonal relationships is that he seemed to exchange wife for employee and then apply a rather impersonal non differentiation of his ‘subordinates’ and pressure them to be trophy-wives, go blonder, while he drove flashy expensive cars. Power, exposure. That combined does not sound like alpha NT.

alpha NTs are stereotyped as liking bit tits and anime girls idfk what u mean
his father was a dickhead LSI he got bullied hes autistic he worked all his life all of this is pretext for narcissism or sociopathy. despite that he seems better than his father. he seems to have an incel mentality that is often shared by a collective of LIIs. he needs the woman to submit to him and everyone else to pay for waht they did to him for him to feel like he has control over his life. even in academia LIIs have been known to be exploitative and get into petty power struggles. it seems he has mostly enemies and hes clueless about how to navigate relationships.
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/cel...-stepdaughter/