Which IE is this?

[Sisyphean]

Title says it. I'm curious which IE or combination of them it is where a sense of stagnation, a lack of forward momentum/progress, leads to agitation, irritability, and depression? Any time I feel like I'm not moving forward in some way, just treading water, or stuck in a rut I can't get out of I start getting really lethargic and irritable or just feeling down all the time. At times some self-destructive behaviors (eating poorly, sleeping a lot, skipping exercise) seem to creep up just to make something different or because "why not?".

Then the instant something breaks loose and things start to progress I'm full of energy and in a great mood to keep that movement going. I'm sure some of that is just personal shit I need to work on but I'm wondering which IE it's rooted in.

[Bertrand]

I think this is almost assuredly Ni/Se axis

[Vespertine]

I see Ni/Se too in this.

[Tallmo]

Its not rooted in any IE. You cant explain everything psychological with IEs.

[Sisyphean]

Its not rooted in any IE. You cant explain everything psychological with IEs.

Lies. Socionics knows and answers all!

[Rebelondeck]

Depends on how one defines stagnation: Eps have been known to chase their tails so there's lots of momentum but no progress. Ejs must surely notice when there's no forward movement because when butting heads, eyes are normally pointed at the ground. When Ips are seen outside, it usually means that their castles are overflowing with unfinished work - they have to come outside to have space to change their minds. Ijs are masters of making plans but won't usually put anything on their plate unless people boot them in the ass - or they're downright desperate.

a.k.a. I/O

[ooo]

Ah interesting, this reminds me of some people in my life that are very much like that and that have been diagnosed with panic attacks and hypertension, for the constant level of agitation caused by their sense of not keeping up with the great amount of potential/expectations of the outside world; 2 of them are ESIs and one of them is an LSI (all of them were p in MBTI). My dad, ILE, suffered of bad heart problems in the past, and I'm afraid that's due to his inability to keep still and as you said, he very much stagnates when not doing anything he sees a sense in.

[Allegra]

Weak and/or unvalued Si?

[Chakram]

Not necessarily rooted in any IE.

I get the same way as you sometimes op. You create a goal and then have to wait to progress towards it, I think everyone can get this.

[Exodus]

Intuition. If you're LSI then it would be due to Ni.

[falsehope]

I think what you describe are serious psychiatric symptoms and you should find out what might be causing this and dont make it worse as that would be disastrous, that wouild mean going fully crazy (and you would not realize it easily). Long term stress would be a no 1 cause I think, otherwise your brain might have naturally some sort of chemical imbalances causing it.
Basically try to relax, dont stress by minor bullshit, dont work too much, too hard, and it should go away.
Also try to not to worry much and think about unpleasant things, especially the ones which could be paranoid, cause strong emotions in you etc.
Silence, calmness, peace can help you.

However, if your mind works like that normally, and you think it is socionics related, that would have to do something with Ne and Ni.

[Sisyphean]

I think what you describe are serious psychiatric symptoms and you should find out what might be causing this and dont make it worse as that would be disastrous, that wouild mean going fully crazy (and you would not realize it easily). Long term stress would be a no 1 cause I think, otherwise your brain might have naturally some sort of chemical imbalances causing it.
Basically try to relax, dont stress by minor bullshit, dont work too much, too hard, and it should go away.
Also try to not to worry much and think about unpleasant things, especially the ones which could be paranoid, cause strong emotions in you etc.
Silence, calmness, peace can help you.

I feel like I may have done a poor job explaining my meaning. I respond very well to stress and requirements to jump in and do the hard work. I'm at my highest point when I'm kicking a job's ass. It's when there isn't any real work to be done, the job feels like low-agency drudgery in a rut, and like I'm not achieving either a short-term or long-term goal like I'm stuck in stasis that I start feeling lethargic, start eating poorly, and sleeping a lot.

Idleness or thumb-twiddling like that just feels "wrong."

However, if your mind works like that normally, and you think it is socionics related, that would have to do something with Ne and Ni.

I mean I've never not been that way and I've passed several psych evals for my various lines of work over the years (requirement for many contractors). I looked into some descriptions of weak Ni based on what you and others said and that sounds pretty well on the money.

[Bertrand]

the legitimacy of persistent negative emotions is a quadral value; the brave new world solution to self reproach arising out of lack of meaning is to drug everyone, but this is predicated on the assumption that such states are inherently bad and justify such an intervention. the truth is only a few people think just another drug addiction is a genuine solution. when marx said religion is the opiate of the masses he was not wrong in the sense that a sufficiently powerful why can stand any how, thus meaning becomes a drug in enabling us to cope and religion is one such drug. the categorical illegitimacy of such "coping mechanisms" (which is a depreciatory mischaracterization, but setting that aside for the sake of argument), naturally leads to actual medical interventions as the proper salve for lack of meaning, because it starts from the presupposition that meaning is only a cut rate salve for impaired physical states. in essence if man is his body and he does not feel well, clearly his body needs adjustment, his attitude is just an epiphenomenon... thus anything that speaks to such an epiphenomenon, such as notions of meaning, purpose or lackthereof, are simply cut rate rhetorical attempts to accomplish what can be done more efficiently with a pill. and thus we arrive. it is the naive dream of a person lacking understanding who simply desires to be surrounded by bodies with smiling faces, as if that is the highest achievement for the world and not just their own personal goal projected onto the universe, which in having done so displaces God as the central principle and substitutes this individual's values

[Sisyphean]

the legitimacy of persistent negative emotions is a quadral value;

Can you expand on the part about quadral value by going into which quadras value it in which way(s)?

[Bertrand]

alpha takes a linear view of positive emotion (more is more), beta is more nonlinear. It has to do with valued Ni making time transform setbacks into gains and thus justifying the existence of a quantum of negative emotion as normal, even good. alpha has the Si thing going on where they just want to feel good all the time if they can, i.e.: in principle that would be best. if people think feeling good all the time is actually kind of horrifying and inhuman rather than the self evident and obvious goal of humanity that is more beta>alpha. I would speculate that its actually in negative emotion that one finds God in the traditional sense.. if we could eliminate negative emotion it takes God with it, ergo God is a symptom to be treated, that in the utopia will be absent entirely as a relic of more primitive days. however this is predicated on the ontological disposition against negative emotion not necessarily good or evil. in fact the primary mistake is to assume because one identifies good with positive emotion and evil with negative emotion, that a good v evil narrative requires the eventual death of God himself, by his own language God was hoist on his own petard, with this operative underlying assumption when it came to be shared by prevailing society; society thus "killed" God because God was seen as obsolete in light of what materialism and science can do

gulenko says the most religious personalities are all negativist (SEI EIE ILI LSE)

[golden]

Just quick kneejerk responses and observational anecdotes ... I’ve worked with Si valuers who apparently liked the chugging-along phases of work just fine, whereas for me those times are extremely understimulating. I like working project by project and don’t like work that has a big layer of mindless daily maintenance happening as I can handle only a little of it.

I think this is not just about IEs, but maybe different values mean different responses and interpretations re meaningful, engaged work.

You asked what IE but I heard a few ... your rut description sounds like possible Ne polr with a rut imposed on you. I’ve known LSIs to make huge changes based on perceiving themselves to be in ruts.

Se prefers more pressure and tension. Ni on the axis with Se will be “high pressure makes it meaningful” or some vice versa take on that kind of phrasing.

[Sisyphean]

@Bertrand

Awesome, thanks for that. Horrifying is a pretty good description for how that sounds imo. Is that an outgrowth of, or share a cause with the "democratic" description I've seen given to Alpha Quadra, or am I imagining things?

[Bertrand]

in short yes, but its complicated. every quadra has their own relationship toward time and that factors into it. linearity in emotion is not the same thing as time. in a sense beta is more linear in time, yet nonlinear in emotion, hence +/- states generate momentum toward real progress. pure + would cut the legs out from the tension that causes humanity to better itself. democrats see time as cyclical with transcendent collective progress being a kind of dream only, with present and near-term states (within the span of an individual life) being the proper frame, hence democracy

[Sisyphean]

I’ve worked with Si valuers who apparently liked the chugging-along phases of work just fine, whereas for me those times are extremely understimulating. I like working project by project and don’t like work that has a big layer of mindless daily maintenance happening as I can handle only a little of it.

Normally my client projects aren't that bad, but I had a string of projects where the security postures were very immature so the whole process of the work for them after the first 4 hours just became a process of box-checking for almost a month, while the hiring process for the same kind of job with a bigger & more meaningful scope has been in a holding pattern for 3 months because of HR fuck-ups. Had a lot of moments asking "what am I even doing?"

You asked what IE but I heard a few ... your rut description sounds like possible Ne polr with a rut imposed on you. I’ve known LSIs to make huge changes based on perceiving themselves to be in ruts.

Interesting, I'll take another few looks at Ne PoLR. Thanks

Ni on the axis with Se will be “high pressure makes it meaningful” or some vice versa take on that kind of phrasing.

Oh that's an IE mindset? I thought that was just a fundamental truth of the universe. Can that even be disputed?

in short yes, but its complicated. every quadra has their own relationship toward time and that factors into it. linearity in emotion is not the same thing as time. in a sense beta is more linear in time, yet nonlinear in emotion, hence +/- states generate momentum toward real progress. pure + would cut the legs out from the tension that causes humanity to better itself. democrats see time as cyclical with transcendent collective progress being a kind of dream only, with present and near-term states (within the span of an individual life) being the proper frame, hence democracy

Guess I should go read more into the +/- aspect again. Are there any articles or blogs on that which haven't already been posted on here you can recommend offhand?

[The Reality Denialist]

Ni is usually described as IE that waits for the right moment in the ego block (irrationally/non-systematically). If so I would say worthwhile goals are missing in the puzzle.

[golden]

Oh that's an IE mindset? I thought that was just a fundamental truth of the universe. Can that even be disputed?

Yeah I think plenty of people will dispute that. Different people have varying thresholds for pressure and preferences for where in their lives they want it and whether they interpret something as pressure. There are actually human beings—I’ve lived among a lot of them—who like low-pressure, low-stim environments. But a subset of those people might also go out and do something like chop up a cord of wood, which for me would be high pressure af because I would probs cut off my hand or something.

It’s considered a universal human need (by certain theorists) to “be stretched” beyond your current abilities. So I’m not implying that people who have a different relationship to pressure are inert or anything.

I guess the stereotype for Ne-Si axis would be something like growing gradually in new directions through following possibilities or something like that, but I haven’t done it so I can’t rightfully speak for those folks.

[Bertrand]

Guess I should go read more into the +/- aspect again. Are there any articles or blogs on that which haven't already been posted on here you can recommend offhand?

https://socioniks.net/article/?id=158

this is more about positivism/negativism in general, but to think of +/- think in the most general meaning of the word: a positive or negative charge associated with the function. a negatively charged function implies competence in the negative area, which implies a kind of background/foreground distinction along with the most literal interpretation: Hamlet can go happy or sad, but more importantly - adds an element of globality, by seeing the underside and background to things it gets a sense of the whole picture. combine this with intuition of time they see the big picture in terms of emotional states in time. it lends a kind of religious and mystical global humanitarian streak to their thinking because its like this dynamic, unspeakable, process, unfolding through time, almost the definition of Hegel's geist

tTnFb_W-2paIMZkAn7SIdPZAVvd0HzTirimdFQdsKE4.jpg

EIE has negative Fe and Ni which is what creates this sense of spirit animating mankind's past present and future

[Myst]

Title says it. I'm curious which IE or combination of them it is where a sense of stagnation, a lack of forward momentum/progress, leads to agitation, irritability, and depression? Any time I feel like I'm not moving forward in some way, just treading water, or stuck in a rut I can't get out of I start getting really lethargic and irritable or just feeling down all the time. At times some self-destructive behaviors (eating poorly, sleeping a lot, skipping exercise) seem to creep up just to make something different or because "why not?".

Then the instant something breaks loose and things start to progress I'm full of energy and in a great mood to keep that movement going. I'm sure some of that is just personal shit I need to work on but I'm wondering which IE it's rooted in.

Se needing Ni and just needing more Se opportunities overall.

What counts as "something breaking loose" for you?

For me it's slightly different, i.e. I always make sure I have a long term goal to look forward to and to work for it consistently over time, and as long as I have that, I never feel stagnation or lack of meaning or any of that stuff. I'm able to be patient for that sort of goal.

I do also have the moments where something comes up and I have to react to it and fix it, it's all cool and actually fun by me as long as it doesn't get in the way of other plans or expectations of mine. If it does, I get really pissed off instead of just finding it fun responding to it. I'm still able to deal with it the same ofc

I don't relate to the part about doing self-destructive behaviours just to make things different, your examples with "eating poorly, sleeping a lot, skipping exercise" definitely don't make things interestingly different for me lol, especially not the last one, my training and racing is incredibly important to me.

[Sisyphean]

Se needing Ni and just needing more Se opportunities overall.

I was anticipating Se but all the people pointing out Ni caught me by surprise. The uniformity of that response is striking.

What counts as "something breaking loose" for you?

Almost anything, really, as long as it's some sort of movement & momentum. In the most recent case it was finally getting through a 3-month HR paperwork hold-up on a new job opportunity's hiring process and onto the next steps in that process.

[Myst]

I was anticipating Se but all the people pointing out Ni caught me by surprise. The uniformity of that response is striking.

Well it's Se needing Ni like I said. So it's both. They are intertwined that way. But yes some of it I just see as Se opportunities, idk why others didn't point that out.

Almost anything, really, as long as it's some sort of movement & momentum. In the most recent case it was finally getting through a 3-month HR paperwork hold-up on a new job opportunity's hiring process and onto the next steps in that process.

OK I see. That is *VERY* Se. For the movement&momentum part. Like actually pure Se. The "next steps" thingy does involve Ni too, to get you moving again for a course/plan I guess.

Sounds like things are getting better for you then tho'


BTW, I edited my post above, please reread

[Myst]

I feel like I may have done a poor job explaining my meaning. I respond very well to stress and requirements to jump in and do the hard work. I'm at my highest point when I'm kicking a job's ass. It's when there isn't any real work to be done, the job feels like low-agency drudgery in a rut, and like I'm not achieving either a short-term or long-term goal like I'm stuck in stasis that I start feeling lethargic, start eating poorly, and sleeping a lot.

Idleness or thumb-twiddling like that just feels "wrong."

You got Si/Ne valuing advice there lol

Anyway, yeah, "stress and requirements to jump in and do the hard work" => Se, "short-term or long-term goal" => Ni, achieving it: Se

And agreed on the idleness thing, I prefer to be always focusing on something, working for something.

Normally my client projects aren't that bad, but I had a string of projects where the security postures were very immature so the whole process of the work for them after the first 4 hours just became a process of box-checking for almost a month, while the hiring process for the same kind of job with a bigger & more meaningful scope has been in a holding pattern for 3 months because of HR fuck-ups. Had a lot of moments asking "what am I even doing?"

Again here, you are really looking for Ni. I relate though for me as long as I do have a goal in sight I'm ok with waiting, so I'd be patiently waiting for the other job, as long as I'm not seeing any obstacle that needs me to get past it. And well sure sometimes I'd get a bit pissed off that the process is moving so slowly.

Tbh though box-checking isn't terrible as long as that's not the only thing in my life lol, say if I'm paid really well for it then it's cool to not always have to do mentally taxing stuff for the job. I'd just try to do it as fast as possible or make some other challenge out of it

Interesting, I'll take another few looks at Ne PoLR. Thanks

Hmm I'd say a rut for me isn't about lack of Ne but about lack of Ni, i.e. the meaningful longer term goals. Ne PoLR plays into it in terms of not seeing possibilities for opportunities easily. Unless the opportunity is in front of my nose or gets brought up in some other way lol.

Noted for @golden too

Oh that's an IE mindset? I thought that was just a fundamental truth of the universe. Can that even be disputed?

That's the weird thing with Socionics, that some people do think about this differently...

Guess I should go read more into the +/- aspect again. Are there any articles or blogs on that which haven't already been posted on here you can recommend offhand?

I find +/- just bollocks lol, it's a non-existent concept.

Se prefers more pressure and tension. Ni on the axis with Se will be “high pressure makes it meaningful” or some vice versa take on that kind of phrasing.

Actually for me it's a bit more separate from having meaning. Um, it's more like just simply liking the pressure physically or something. It can sometimes explicitly contribute to meaning though... if I have to get through obstacles to get to a really important goal then yeah

[Myst]

if people think feeling good all the time is actually kind of horrifying and inhuman rather than the self evident and obvious goal of humanity that is more beta>alpha

Yeah great distinction there!

Depends on how one defines stagnation: Eps have been known to chase their tails so there's lots of momentum but no progress. Ejs must surely notice when there's no forward movement because when butting heads, eyes are normally pointed at the ground. When Ips are seen outside, it usually means that their castles are overflowing with unfinished work - they have to come outside to have space to change their minds. Ijs are masters of making plans but won't usually put anything on their plate unless people boot them in the ass - or they're downright desperate.

You got the Ij part really well minus that I don't plan as much as that. And I have a bit more Se initiative than that. Maybe it fits INxj a bit more overall? To be clear what fits me there is that I don't easily put more on my plate unless I find the motivation in other people for it. I.e. I get involved emotionally and that's when I do it.

Ah interesting, this reminds me of some people in my life that are very much like that and that have been diagnosed with panic attacks and hypertension, for the constant level of agitation caused by their sense of not keeping up with the great amount of potential/expectations of the outside world; 2 of them are ESIs and one of them is an LSI (all of them were p in MBTI). My dad, ILE, suffered of bad heart problems in the past, and I'm afraid that's due to his inability to keep still and as you said, he very much stagnates when not doing anything he sees a sense in.

I can't relate to that. If they are Ps in MBTI then they are maybe SxIs in Socionics and this is maybe Ne dual seeking. Potential of the outside world is Ne... I couldn't care less about that.

[Sisyphean]

Well it's Se needing Ni like I said. So it's both. They are intertwined that way. But yes some of it I just see as Se opportunities, idk why others didn't point that out.

lol good point. I tend to think of information elements as discrete even though one implies the other. A new way to think about them I hadn't considered so now I might have to reevaluate some stuff.

Sounds like things are getting better for you then tho'

Yup! way better and I was in a much better, normal, energetic mood in a few hours after that progress was made. Was sudden and jarring enough to actually notice for once instead of taking it as normal as breathing.

BTW, I edited my post above, please reread

Woops, lemme check...

For me it's slightly different, i.e. I always make sure I have a long term goal to look forward to and to work for it consistently over time, and as long as I have that, I never feel stagnation or lack of meaning or any of that stuff. I'm able to be patient for that sort of goal.

How long-term are we talking, typically? In my circumstances at the moment short-term ends up being 12 hours to a day or two, and the long-term goal is 1-2 years. Longer than that and things start feeling pretty abstract. Managed to make a 5 year plan work through college, but I ended up breaking that up into 3 or 4 intermediate goals along the way.

I do also have the moments where something comes up and I have to react to it and fix it, it's all cool and actually fun by me as long as it doesn't get in the way of other plans or expectations of mine. If it does, I get really pissed off instead of just finding it fun responding to it. I'm still able to deal with it the same ofc

Yup, all of that. Especially the bold part. People fucking up my flow getting my stuff done is a good way to end up on my bad side.

I don't relate to the part about doing self-destructive behaviours just to make things different, your examples with "eating poorly, sleeping a lot, skipping exercise" definitely don't make things interestingly different for me lol, especially not the last one, my training and racing is incredibly important to me.

Well other things I'm not at liberty to discuss for one reason or another. I'll also stack more weight on a barbell while exercising until either my muscles fail with the weight over me or something feels like it's going to break.

Because I'm effectively on-call or bound to a keyboard for much of my work it limits my options to go for a 4 hour drive for shits and giggles like I used to.

[Myst]

lol good point. I tend to think of information elements as discrete even though one implies the other. A new way to think about them I hadn't considered so now I might have to reevaluate some stuff.

That's a big part of Socionics ideas and that's why duality even works, supposedly.

How long-term are we talking, typically? In my circumstances at the moment short-term ends up being 12 hours to a day or two, and the long-term goal is 1-2 years. Longer than that and things start feeling pretty abstract. Managed to make a 5 year plan work through college, but I ended up breaking that up into 3 or 4 intermediate goals along the way.

1 day for the most short-term and most detailed plans (well, for my training plan the detailed plans can be longer, weeks, months ). I guess it counts as short-term up to a week or a couple weeks though. I've had longer term goals than 1-2 years, but I definitely don't try to make them detailed, not until I get close enough in time for that. What intermediate goals did you need for the college plan?

Yup, all of that. Especially the bold part. People fucking up my flow getting my stuff done is a good way to end up on my bad side.

Hmm I never thought of it as "flow" being fucked up. It's more like I have an expectation that this thing will go well, or that I have a specific plan for the action or for the day etc and then something fucks it up.

Well other things I'm not at liberty to discuss for one reason or another. I'll also stack more weight on a barbell while exercising until either my muscles fail with the weight over me or something feels like it's going to break.

Because I'm effectively on-call or bound to a keyboard for much of my work it limits my options to go for a 4 hour drive for shits and giggles like I used to.

Haha, that's fun, I don't see any of that as self-destructive : p

[Sisyphean]

Anyway, yeah, "stress and requirements to jump in and do the hard work" => Se, "short-term or long-term goal" => Ni, achieving it: Se

And agreed on the idleness thing, I prefer to be always focusing on something, working for something.

Finally, somebody understands me!

Again here, you are really looking for Ni. I relate though for me as long as I do have a goal in sight I'm ok with waiting, so I'd be patiently waiting for the other job, as long as I'm not seeing any obstacle that needs me to get past it. And well sure sometimes I'd get a bit pissed off that the process is moving so slowly.

Tbh though box-checking isn't terrible as long as that's not the only thing in my life lol, say if I'm paid really well for it then it's cool to not always have to do mentally taxing stuff for the job. I'd just try to do it as fast as possible or make some other challenge out of it

Yeah for sure. I didn't mind the box-checking or waiting on the HR people too much at first. Then the novelty of the box-checking wore off and I started thinking "Am I going to be checking these same boxes for these same people in 10 years?" and I got like a month and a half of radio silence from the HR people. Whole thing just put me in a really bad funk that even friends noticed for a change.

Hmm I'd say a rut for me isn't about lack of Ne but about lack of Ni, i.e. the meaningful longer term goals. Ne PoLR plays into it in terms of not seeing possibilities for opportunities easily. Unless the opportunity is in front of my nose or gets brought up in some other way lol.

Thanks for the clarification. Intuition(s) in general are still something I have an issue conceptualizing fully and properly integrating into all the rest.

That's the weird thing with Socionics, that some people do think about this differently...

You misspelled "incorrectly"

I find +/- just bollocks lol, it's a non-existent concept.

lmao duly noted. Will read with a grain of salt.

[Sisyphean]

1 day for the most short-term and most detailed plans (well, for my training plan the detailed plans can be longer, weeks, months ). I guess it counts as short-term up to a week or a couple weeks though. I've had longer term goals than 1-2 years, but I definitely don't try to make them detailed, not until I get close enough in time for that. What intermediate goals did you need for the college plan?

One was to get my GPA up enough to transfer to a better school with the program I wanted. The next was to get some professional certifications while in school (my degree is related but not actually in my specific field), get myself into one of the extracurricular groups dealing with breaking into computers, and graduate into an internship. Those generally ended up spaced out 1-2 years each, with some minor overlap (one finishing after the next started). And yeah my long-term goal was definitely not a detailed one, either. All it amounted to was "I want that specific kind of job."

Hmm I never thought of it as "flow" being fucked up. It's more like I have an expectation that this thing will go well, or that I have a specific plan for the action or for the day etc and then something fucks it up.

Gotcha. I wish I was better at planning things out, but any time I've tried it it's never stuck. I tend to wing it with what I'm getting done more than having specific plans of action, and when I'm really into it I can sit down and work on it for days on-end. If something disrupts my thinking when I'm in that kind of zone I'm not the best company in the world lol

Haha, that's fun, I don't see any of that as self-destructive : p

Insanely fun lol but risking injury, getting injured, and going 100mph in a 60mph area aren't the most wise decisions =P

[Myst]

Yeah for sure. I didn't mind the box-checking or waiting on the HR people too much at first. Then the novelty of the box-checking wore off and I started thinking "Am I going to be checking these same boxes for these same people in 10 years?" and I got like a month and a half of radio silence from the HR people. Whole thing just put me in a really bad funk that even friends noticed for a change.

It can offer novelty? That's news to me

Thanks for the clarification. Intuition(s) in general are still something I have an issue conceptualizing fully and properly integrating into all the rest.

Np, any more questions in it, feel free to ask anytime.

You misspelled "incorrectly"

Gotcha. I wish I was better at planning things out, but any time I've tried it it's never stuck. I tend to wing it with what I'm getting done more than having specific plans of action, and when I'm really into it I can sit down and work on it for days on-end. If something disrupts my thinking when I'm in that kind of zone I'm not the best company in the world lol

Your examples for planning for school seem fine to me even if that's just high level not detailed stuff.

Insanely fun lol but risking injury, getting injured, and going 100mph in a 60mph area aren't the most wise decisions =P

If you pay enough attention then it's not too bad

[Sisyphean]

It can offer novelty? That's news to me

Temporarily yeah lol . For about two years it's "Woohoo! I get to legally hack banks and all I have to do is check some boxes in addition to that" and then it becomes "Oh. Another bank that doesn't know shit about shit and I'm checking off these same boxes for the hundredth time..."

Np, any more questions in it, feel free to ask anytime.

Will do if I ever think of anything N to ask in the first place

Your examples for planning for school seem fine to me even if that's just high level not detailed stuff.

The 1INT Vault Dweller Planning Process™:

1. I want that thing
2. How do I get that thing?
3. I have to do this thing
   
   1. Okay, I'll do that thing
   
   
4. I have to do this other thing
   
   1. Okay I'll do this other thing
   
   
5. And this to
   
   1. Okay, that too
   
   
6. Can I do that thing I want to, yet?

If you pay enough attention then it's not too bad

Well I've never been caught or fucked myself up with a weight set so I guess I'm doing it right lmao

[Myst]

Temporarily yeah lol . For about two years it's "Woohoo! I get to legally hack banks and all I have to do is check some boxes in addition to that" and then it becomes "Oh. Another bank that doesn't know shit about shit and I'm checking off these same boxes for the hundredth time..."

Ah ok it makes sense now.

The 1INT Vault Dweller Planning Process™:

1. I want that thing
2. How do I get that thing?
3. I have to do this thing
   
   1. Okay, I'll do that thing
   
   
4. I have to do this other thing
   
   1. Okay I'll do this other thing
   
   
5. And this to
   
   1. Okay, that too
   
   
6. Can I do that thing I want to, yet?

Lol this seems rather SeTi to me, but I'm posting in your type thread too anyway, I'll add more there on this.

Well I've never been caught or fucked myself up with a weight set so I guess I'm doing it right lmao

Yeah!

[golden]

Again here, you are really looking for Ni. I relate though for me as long as I do have a goal in sight I'm ok with waiting, so I'd be patiently waiting for the other job, as long as I'm not seeing any obstacle that needs me to get past it. And well sure sometimes I'd get a bit pissed off that the process is moving so slowly. ...

Hmm I'd say a rut for me isn't about lack of Ne but about lack of Ni, i.e. the meaningful longer term goals. Ne PoLR plays into it in terms of not seeing possibilities for opportunities easily. Unless the opportunity is in front of my nose or gets brought up in some other way lol.

Noted for @golden too

I honestly don’t identify with this all that much, “this” meaning Ni as meaningful longer-term goals.

The people I’ve known who were setting all kinds of meaningful longer-term goals and laying out plans to get there actually were Deltas, that’s just how my life has gone so ymmv.

[Spermatozoa]

Title says it. I'm curious which IE or combination of them it is where a sense of stagnation, a lack of forward momentum/progress, leads to agitation, irritability, and depression? Any time I feel like I'm not moving forward in some way, just treading water, or stuck in a rut I can't get out of I start getting really lethargic and irritable or just feeling down all the time. At times some self-destructive behaviors (eating poorly, sleeping a lot, skipping exercise) seem to creep up just to make something different or because "why not?".

Then the instant something breaks loose and things start to progress I'm full of energy and in a great mood to keep that movement going. I'm sure some of that is just personal shit I need to work on but I'm wondering which IE it's rooted in.

This is not an IE-related question, ignore anyone who tells you so.

People of every Sociotype can experience the symptoms you have described. Socionics would explain this as a consequence of their Super-Id needs (HA & DS functions) not being met.

[ooo]

I can't relate to that. If they are Ps in MBTI then they are maybe SxIs in Socionics and this is maybe Ne dual seeking. Potential of the outside world is Ne... I couldn't care less about that.

yeah I'm not sure of their correct typings, and less sure about the ISTx, he scored ISTP in MBTI but I've always thought that was off, he was more TiSe, more organized, methodical, and more risk seeking, opportunity taking than an ISTP. He's too well mannered and gossipy to be an ISTp, but maybe my ideas are just a bit off. agreed tho, that Ne seeking makes sense for what I said, but then, I was vague, I don't know what happened to him exactly, something like panic attacks, diagnosis was "maybe it's stress", and he couldn't figure out where that stress was coming from, so probably it had something to do with a feeling of underestimation/frustration in his workplace, and at the same time knowing that there's best out and time is ticking and it's better to figure out what to do with one's life... but I'm guessing here.

I'm pretty confident in the ESI typings instead, more or less, and even there, they too could fit in some Si qualities, sure, and Ne seeking would solve all in a moment, but we can't just attribute stress motives to Si types. My ESI sister got a heart checking device to test her daily pressure at 22, that was not from indulging in Si, more probably in overdoing Se; the other ESI is living a life he doesn't want to live because of some medical conditions that have an effect on his psyche, so yeah, there's that... possibilities can even be a source of stress when placed badly, perhaps.

[Pookie]

Serotonin

[Sisyphean]

Serotonin

Aayyy lmao

[Myst]

I honestly don’t identify with this all that much, “this” meaning Ni as meaningful longer-term goals.

The people I’ve known who were setting all kinds of meaningful longer-term goals and laying out plans to get there actually were Deltas, that’s just how my life has gone so ymmv.

This sounds like some semantics difference in terms of the phrasing "meaningful". I'm thinking you are thinking of how Deltas want these personal growth related and thus deeply personally meaningful goals or whatever, I didn't mean that kind of meaningful, I meant the Ni version of envisioning something especially if it's a big enough something and going for that. And that is what is meaningful in a way. Idk what word you'd use there, feel free to use some other word for it if you want lol, but this is what I meant.