Type this sentiment
Type, Quadra, element involved here?
"Go out and follow your dreams! Work and family obligations, bank account... they mean nothing, if you believe in yourself and what you can achieve. If you want to travel the world, you CAN. Right now. No excuses. Think about what you want the most, decide your dream, and don't let anything stop you."
Identical of Shia Labeouf
What type is Shia labeouf?
Se and Fe ?
SEE-ESFp probably, esp enneagram 7.
@Kim comes to mind so I want to say IEE sx/so 7w8.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
This. Emphasis on the Fe. Subdued Te.Originally Posted by inumbra
Last edited by Exodus; 10-18-2016 at 10:57 PM.
LOL
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
Idiotic platitudes don't have types.
Why would it be-- sensing types are supposed to be realistic types in touch with what is happening right now, not idiotic fantastical types. All people can always work towards their dreams; but in frank, not all people will achieve them, and you can't have them 'immediately' with no excuses.
Why would it be-- anyone with half a brain has heard lobotomical motivational poster stuff before, nobody is fooled by it or takes it to be true, is motivated or pushed by it.
Edit: could be someone weak in these functions trying to imitate it. mainly I think stupidity is NTR
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
"sensing types are supposed to be realistic types in touch with what is happening right now"
Idiotic platitudes don't have types.
Why would it be
This is true to some extent. It's Se because it's about telling someone to get up and go do something. The "unrealistic" part comes from the Fe and Ni (which is sort of intertwined with Se to begin with).
Not even true...but if it was true it's still an attempt to inspire. Just because something is idiotic doesn't mean it's not type related. There is idiotic Fe, idiotic Ne, etc.Why would it be
I understand that this is "the party line" so to speak, but... I don't think this is really a good simplification.
Yea I edited my post above to reflect.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
("Historically knows where their next meal is coming from" XOR "Wanderer with head in the stars, sleeps on park benches") OR ("culture where individual identity and branding is paramount" OR "advert" OR "Frustrated therapist to long-term client" OR "E7")
Reason is a whore.
The reason I ask is because I think whatever THIS is, is my polr. And I thought it could be attributed to Se (which is supposedly in my ego but I question it all the time).
Recently my friend and I met this guy at a bar who kept saying stuff like this. It made me feel helpless and resentful. I kept telling him real life doesn't work that way. Eventually I got so annoyed that I left the two of them to go smoke. They followed me out and he apologized and was like "I just want to inspire you and let you know that these concerns you have about money and stuff aren't as important as believing in yourself." I was just like "whatever" and told my friend I wanted to leave.
My IEE friend had no problem with him and she kind of chastised me afterwards for judging him so much and getting pissy or whatever. So I thought it could be Ne- wrt big dreams, possibilities, etc. But I also thought it could be Se because of overcoming obstacles.
Either way I was like, okay, if there's such thing as a polr hit, this is what it feels like...
The message has a lot of Ne with very little realism or realistic expectations. It is Alpha or Delta
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Honestly ... I don't know the full story, but it's frustrating because people tell you "you can do something if only <some immaterial thing that doesn't help at all or that comes directly from their own, personal and disconnected, experience>! try your best!"
It's a bad way to try to "motivate" someone because it doesn't appeal to them. It comes from the person who is saying it. It's not about big dreams or obstacles. It's because another person is telling you how to act in their circumstances, and trying to pass it off as providing advice and motivation. You are obviously not in their circumstances (and in fact, will never be, because that's impossible) so that's frustrating.
It's totally the wrong way to listen to somebody who is trying to express their problems because you overwrite their emotions with your own opinion, which doesn't relate to their circumstances. It didn't upset your friend because it wasn't happening to your friend. Perhaps she's more receptive to being told these kind of things, though. Some people do like to take advice they can do nothing with (this is annoying, because it normalises the process.)
Perhaps more than that (and perhaps why your friend wasn't upset), I think you are mad because you know this [above two paragraphs], whether subconsciously or consciously. So to know something is just ... really the wrong way to approach an interpersonal problem and then have that person take that approach with you is hella frustrating. This type of thing happens to me a fair bit.
By the way I knew that was what this was about. Because I remember you got very angry about something like this before in chatbox.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
He was saying that stuff to both of us, but as the night went on it became more focused at me since I was the one raising objections.
And yeah, I was wondering if anybody would remember my chatbox rant haha.
Idealistic is Ne
Realistic is Se
All sense that extroverts captures things in reality as they really are, it's real tone look and expression as well as real needs. If this was Se it would be something like "if you have $2000 you can travel to China " as an example because money is real and tangible. But to say "take off and go as your hearts desire while not having considered all realistic aspects is not Se
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I think it's the Ne.
I am posting this even though it is probably not a very popular site for function descriptions. I still like it.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I'd say this this is the kind of thing a Positivist Extrovert would most likely say, so ESE, ILE, SEE and LIE would probably be the most likely.
I'll answer a couple things I saw @totalize and @666 talking about in chatbox after I had to cut the convo short, along with some other contextual info.
-We'd never met him before that night.
-He seemed extroverted, but that's all i picked up on typewise.
-He was really digging my friend. I felt like a 3rd wheel, but that's not unusual w her IEE tendency to get fascinated with new people. This exacerbated my irritation though, since i already didn't like him (ugh, she's gonna spend the whole night entertaining this asshole while I stare at my drink...) And increased my feelings of being defective that I got from the stuff he was saying.
-He wasn't really giving advice that he hadn't followed himself? He was traveling on business and he kept talking about how he came from the ghetto but by rubbing elbows with the right people and keeping an eye out for opportunities he ended up with this job that he never thought he could get... So the same thing could happen to anyone if they keep themselves open to their Dreams and don't get resigned... like you are....
Hippies.
Oh right he is some loser who met your friend at a bar and wanted to show how good he was by telling you guys how he MADE IT HIMSELF and at the same time show his altruism by offering his advice and then following you later when you left to apologise like a good person.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
LMAO
Actually... You're right. It can't all be NTR though. I feel like my reaction to him has to be socionically relevant since it was so strong and I felt like he was unintentionally hitting my weakest points.
Does it? I think he probably offended your values.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
it would have upset me too because it's so invalidating and emotionally overriding and there's no way seemingly to get out of the trap (because the person is so emotionally manipulative) - it just discounts you as a person and all of your struggles while offering no real practical assistance. i still think this person probably has strong Fe and/or Se. it might be either ESE (Fe lead, Se demonstrative), SEE (Se lead, Fe demonstrative), or EIE (Fe lead, Se HA). he wants to shove this down your throat and will follow you around to do it. it's a sort of flaming extrovert pushy sales person type. (i am guessing)
i also think in addition to maybe enneagram 7, enneagram 3 is in this (social instinct maybe).
it's a prevalent attitude i think in certain slimy sales people marketing schmoozing business circles where it's presented as the "right" attitude that you're "supposed" to have.-He wasn't really giving advice that he hadn't followed himself? He was traveling on business and he kept talking about how he came from the ghetto but by rubbing elbows with the right people and keeping an eye out for opportunities he ended up with this job that he never thought he could get... So the same thing could happen to anyone if they keep themselves open to their Dreams and don't get resigned... like you are....
also it does kind of seem like he was trying to put you down... getting some sort of emotional high or ego boost from invalidating and overriding someone else's perspective, experiences and feelings.
eta: i guess i should toss in SLE and ILE as other possible ones... Fe HA
Last edited by marooned; 10-19-2016 at 05:46 AM.
Sounds rather beta.
"Go out and follow your dreams! -- Se/Ni valuing. Having dreams sounds Ni. Actually pursuing them would be Se.
Work and family obligations, bank account... they mean nothing, --- unvalued Te and Fi.
if you believe in yourself and what you can achieve. If you want to travel the world, you CAN. Right now. No excuses. Think about what you want the most, decide your dream, and don't let anything stop you. --- Se/Ni valuing.
I'm not quite sure which beta type though. Maybe EIE- creative Ni + Se mobilizing.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Fi and Ne
Other ethical intuitive types are also likely to say that. S + T are more realistic, especially Se valuing because they don't just go for it, not risk takers.
Last edited by maniac; 10-19-2016 at 07:48 AM.
That confirms that he is probably Se valuing (as well as material success and "getting ahead" being the main point of his little spiel, even if some Ne is involved). Most likely EIE but maybe SLE or SEE.
Also - I'm not saying all Betas will agree with what he's saying. In fact many of them might find it really stupid - I wrote an article about this: http://socexamples.blogspot.com/2016...-of-betas.html
This doesn't sound like the IEE approach to life at all. Too pushy "just do it" sales mentality - looks like the end result is success (and backhandedly calling you a loser) no matter your current situation as opposed to chasing dreams in an idealistic sense. The sentiment about current bank account not mattering is stupid and unrealistic, but there are many SLE's and SEE's who gamble everything or invest into risky bussiness, burn bridges and have to start over and over again, chasing their materialistic dreams. Either 7 or 3 Enneagram wise. This person could be either SLE, SEE, ILE or EIE (less likely) imo. Looking for ooportunities and adapting along the way sounds EP.
Edit: If we're going by intertype relationships, I have no problems with this person just from lung's description and would probably find him fun and gutsy, but also pretty delusional.
Last edited by darya; 10-19-2016 at 10:41 AM.
One more thing, @lungs, I'd say both ESI's and EII's are likely to be turned-off by people like that, so it probably has more to do with Fi-leading, clash of temperaments and you being e6 than exact Polr.
maybe Fe valued P type
I'm not turning off by it
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
As an ILE I find such sentiments extremely misleading. I think this type of thinking is the result of a competetive Se-mindset, maybe coupled with some emotional manipulation. I am well aware of the practical obstacles to such an approach to life that I can easily disregard it as a load of crap. Also, this seems to be a pretty wide spread phenomemon and has provoked me enough to sometimes tell people I like about all the faults of such an approach. So umm, this couldn't come from an ILE or maybe I'm not an ILE
Good to know. I'm going to retype judicious now because I'm a jaded fuck
But seriously.. what makes you think Ne/Si don't dream? And both pe function can be a fount of inspiration, but Se focuses on explicit objects versus Ne, implicit
LungsWork and family obligations, bank account... they mean nothing, --- unvalued Te and Fi.
This is actually what I was thinking of with Ne—Ne doesn't like practical concerns to intrude on the wholeness of their experiences
Doesn't necessarily mean Ne base. There are various types that can act supervisory, and because of the shared ego function supervisors often aren't (as I've said before, from what little typing I can conduct irl, I think supervisors are often friends). You might need to see this person in more than one context to determine pattern behavior
I agree with whoever said this is a positivist extroverted type, but entx might be as close as you can come (what kind of loser ethical doesn't read the atmosphere.. well okay SEE sometimes don't)
this is exactly what was bothering me about the whole thing. after @thehotelambush's response, I started thinking it was maybe devalued Te.
like,
"follow your dreams!"
"what dreams?"
"whatever you want!"
"how?"
"believe in yourself!"
"so if I want to travel and I don't have money?"
"don't worry about it, just travel!"
It made me feel pressured and defective, but maybe it was leaning on my suggestive? I don't know if model A works that way.
As much as I am all about "follow your dream," I wouldn't have liked this way of talking about it either. Too pretentious and pushy with too much disregard and too little respect for individual circumstances.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Yes, this crap is my PoLR too.
It doesn't make me feel defective or pressured though, just insanely pissed off that this person can be such an idiot not taking reality into account at all. High up in the fucking clouds.
It can be my conflictor...
Oh and another thing that'd piss me off if I was told this is the person assuming that I can't think for myself, I can't prioritize my own life for myself, figure out how to achieve something and then go achieve it. Just ridiculous.
This part sounds a bit more like SEE.
Maybe it's the Ti PoLR pissing me off then?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
