You cant even give an accurate description of what Ni isOriginally Posted by Starfall
You cant even give an accurate description of what Ni is
No fucking way, you're wrong.... as usual.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
don't know with fucking, but with thinking way the result is SEI
It is due to the nature of the lead function. It is pretty foreign to a lot of people.
If people are not familiar with what Ni is, or they don't value it, they won't see it. Most of the IEI offerings here as primarily "feeling" types so both Fi and Fe egos and some Ne and Si egos. I think it is very hard to type based on a few minutes of video and my most accurate typings (by my own standards) come from observing someone's use the functions over a period of time. If I offer a "serious" celebrity typing you can be pretty sure I have not only done my research and maybe looked back to their childhood because they interest me. lol I have read their words to see if it conflicts with what I am seeing.
I have offered very few serious celebrity typings because I am just not that interested. The person really has to grab my attention in such a way that I have to find information to validate my intuition. I may offer an impression in various threads based on vibe but if I want I can break it down. I just don't always want to unless I think someone is totally missing the the bigger picture. In most case I probably didn't look further into them because I am not interested in general. I just like to challenge sol on his typing so many people INFP here because he thinks they a nuts, sexy, or "inappropriate".
I don't think anyone who doesn't have a good understanding of a specific type is going to offer very helpful examples and this thread is not going to help someone who is considering IEI see themselves in the examples. If I have limited experience with a type, I probably will not even attempt to type them because they are alien to me. I do best with NFs, (it might take some time to figure out which NF) and Betas, that is because I have a wide experience base with these types.
I am posting this to remind people how model A works. I have been using it loosely as a guideline, along with "vibes" because I never really feel 100% on any person I am typing online unless I can have a long conversation with them. When I first joined I hadn't read enough about how it is supposed to work, in theory, and I was confusing some people, EIE-Ni for example, for identicals. I think I have a pretty good grasp on it now but it still doesn't help me with those "alien" types I do not really have real world experience with. I don't even think model A is completely accurate as it is written but this is a socionics site. I still find the concept interesting and think there is something to it, it just isn't someone's "whole" story.
Ego Block Functions
Introduction
The first row of Model A (functions 1 and 2) is called the Ego block. These functions describe the aspects of reality that a person perceives with the greatest depth and clarity and verbalizes with the greatest ease. The Ego block also describes the most natural and common states of mind and behavior styles used when interacting with other people, and also a certain perspective that a person injects into the things he says.
The information aspects that corresponds to the Ego block elements are things that a person can't help spontaneously commenting on and is comfortable discussing out loud (especially true of the leading function). If something is not right in these areas, a person can barely continue until he has spoken out about it and done something to fix the problem. When problems arise, the people who are most likely to point them out are those whose perception of that aspect of reality comes from the Ego block.The Ego block functions require a constant stream of new information and stimulation (whether by direct experience, observation, study, or reflection) and quickly sort through this information, recognizing what is useful and necessary and what is not. When exposed to the types of information corresponding to the elements of the Ego block, a person takes immediate note and quickly forms his own attitude or opinion on the matter. He is more confident of his own judgments in these areas than of other people's, even if those people are widely accepted authorities. Instinctively, people are likely to overuse these functions and apply them in practically any area, even when their relevance is minimal. This makes the ego functions (and in particular the base function) more obvious to a casual observer than the other functions.
The Ego block describes a person's preferred and most comfortable and natural role or "mode of operation" when interacting with other people. When a person gets to use his Ego block functions in interaction, he becomes lively and confident and exudes an air of authority and expertise. These functions also have the most endurance; a person can use them longer than other functions without getting worn out.
The Ego block functions imply a certain perspective or set of values since they are the most preferred approaches to solving life problems, giving advice, and achieving one's goals. The individual wants to see society become more like himself and wants to instill his personal philosophy or values in his work activities, his living space, and the people around him. For a person to feel needed and fulfilled, he has to see that his unique perspective is making a difference somewhere. The areas where a person is most likely to make a difference correspond to the Ego block elements. They are called Ego exactly because they are so naturally identified with one's own perspective, ideals, and identity.
The Ego functions are mostly indifferent to praise, since it is very hard to tell a person something about these aspects of himself that he didn't already know—and can easily describe to others. Moreover, when others display misunderstanding of these elements, he feels that it is his right and duty to correct them.
1. Leading Function
The leading function, also called the base, program, or simply first function, is an individual's most dominant psychic function. It describes in general terms the person's most comfortable thinking patterns, perspective on life, state of mind, and behavioral style as well as their positive motivational forces (what they pursue most vigorously when they have a choice). The leading function is critical to interpersonal dynamics because people constantly and inadvertently make judgments, assessments, and assumptions based on it. These comments and judgments portray a particular set of core values and share a common vector or general message, and those who the person interacts closely with must be accepting of this message for interaction to be cohesive and compatible.
Generally speaking, the leading function perceives, processes, and produces information most intensively. When a person "speaks" or "acts" from their leading function, they convey a sense of robust confidence and often begin to speak categorically, persuasively, and using exaggerations.
Proper development of one's leading function is generally seen as being crucial to personal development. This requires having people around you who are accepting of your core values and most natural, confident behavior styles. Profession-wise, the base function provides the best platform for developing a unique niche that will bring real value to other people. Rather than describing the professions a person would be best at, the base function describes a general approach and behavior style that can be successfully applied to virtually any field of activity.
Use of the base function comes effortlessly and produces a sense of internal satisfaction regardless of any external rewards. Base function activities can easily be developed into highly effective and productive skills, but there is also a tendency to indulge too much in the base function just because it is easy and rewarding. When overuse becomes extreme, a feeling of emptiness and pointlessness follows, and use of the base function stops bringing satisfaction.The influence of the base function on perception and core values is so strong that people tend to project these values onto other people: everyone else surely must want the same things that your base function strives for. This projection is often a source of conflict with other people who have opposing values, but it is also one of the mechanisms for dualization. The base function's empathy towards others stimulates duals (and, to a certain degree, activators and semi-duals) to try to take care of the other person's problems with the corresponding function. This is exactly what the dual is looking for subconsciously, since one dual's base function is the other's suggestive function. However, in many other cases a person's natural interest in aspects of other people's lives that correspond to his own base function creates mistrust and strained relations.
According to the dimensionality of functions, the base function is able to effectively process and apply personal experience and social norms, present different solutions for different situations, and recognize and extrapolate the development of this aspect of information over time. The time dimension, which is shared by the demonstrative function, allows it to "fill in the blanks" between two related aspects, thus allowing it to infer the existence of previously unknown content.
2. Creative Function
This function describes the primary mode of application of the base function. If the base function forms the core of the individual's personal quests and interests ("What's in it for me?", "What do I want to be?"), the creative function describes his main instrument for interacting with the rest of society ("How do I make contact with other people?"). For extroverts this means creating a context for people to interact within, and for introverts — creating a product worthy of being included in interaction.
People use their creative function less than their base function and attach less personal significance to it, although due to the nature of blocked functions it is usually used in tandem with the base function. In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities. When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important. Also, when other people express problems having to do with this information aspect, the person quickly takes interest and tries to present solutions — but always through his own base function. For instance, an SEE will try to help other people solve their Fi related problems (relationships and understanding between people) through a Se perspective (making sure you know what you want and are trying to achieve it; understanding the territorial aspect of interaction; recognizing the obvious "dumb things" that people are doing that are ruining the relationship). When people get to use their creative function to help others' problems, they feel needed and fulfilled and begin to live more fully. Likewise, criticism in this area is more sensitive and unpleasant than in the base function.
Use of the creative function — while frequent and effortless — seems to turn on and off. One moment the person may seem highly interested in this aspect, and the next — totally indifferent. This may jar people for whom this aspect of reality is of more supreme importance and who expect more consistent attention and effort in this area. A good example of this is one's interaction with their mirror partner; each person's leading function is subject to the other's creativity function, so even though both partners do share similar worldviews, they are apt to 'correct' or add on to the other's rigid and finalized points.
Super-Ego Block Functions
Introduction
The second row of Model A (functions 3 and 4) is called the Super-Ego block. The individual's free and spontaneous use of the Ego block functions implies limitations on the use of these functions, which are a kind of rejected alternative to the Ego block. Each type tends to believe that his own Super-Ego functions are meant to be used only for the purposes established by the Ego functions; that is, their application is limited to serving the Ego block's interests. When a person's own interests are not sufficiently developed and people around him pressure him to be more competent with his Super-Ego functions, distress and disappointment result. The psyche is not able to channel energy through the Super-Ego functions long enough to achieve lasting results, which leads to disappointment, guilt, and even neuroses if the individual believes that the development of these functions is the measure of his worth as a person.
The Super-Ego functions are the source of much self-consciousness. When among strangers or critical onlookers, people tend to suddenly become aware of the possible inadequacy of their Super-Ego functions and often respond in one of two ways: (1) demonstratively act through these functions to create an illusion of confidence, or (2) demonstratively state their complete incompetency or rejection of these areas.
The Super-Ego functions are in the mental ring and thus describe things that the individual tries to mentally formulate for himself. However, in contrast to the Ego block functions, the Super-Ego functions almost always keep their conclusions to themselves. Any information which is shared in these areas is meant for abstract discussion, rather than actual advice or criticism.
These functions are prone to inflexibility and tend to reject new information unless it comes from first-hand experience or sources that they already respect. These functions have great difficulty producing confident and creative responses in unfamiliar situations.
People rarely appreciate direct commentary and analysis of their Super-Ego function behavior except by highly trusted friends. Otherwise, they tend to automatically suspect ill will towards them. Criticism of these aspects of a person's life can produce long-lasting animosity. The person may either vehemently defend himself (too vehemently given the nature of the criticism) or close up and ruminate about the situation for days. Outright praise, on the other hand, produces an unexpected self-esteem boost.
3. Role Function
When a person is actively using his base function, the role function is essentially turned off. The two cannot both be "on" at the same time, because they represent two opposing approaches to similar things. Because of this opposition, the more one gets carried away with one's base function, the more the role function is ignored or suppressed. People are generally somewhat aware of this suppression and perceive it as a personal weakness that needs to be "worked on" in order to meet other people's expectations and achieve something in society. It is typical for people to periodically work on their role function in order to correct imbalances in their life and improve their weak areas. However, these attempts are generally sporadic and are forgotten as soon as the perceived problem begins to go away and the person once again becomes carried away with their usual lifestyle which is dominated by their base function. Thus, development of the role function is more like patching up leaks than building a complete, self-sufficient structure. Often individuals wish they could build up their role function and become "supermen", but an excessive focus on this unreachable goal brings disappointment, because the base function always wins anyways.
When people are criticized for their lack of attentiveness to their role function, they are often irritated because they are already well aware of the deficiency and have already tried and failed to correct it. When problems arise with the role function, energy flows away from the base function, the individual brings his usual activities to a halt, and tries to pick up all the tasks he had been neglecting. Directing energy through the base function is effortless; working with the role function requires effort and concentration. Thus, people's concept of self-development is often centered on development of the role function and the Super-Ego block in general.
Compared to the vulnerable function, role function criticism is easier for a person to respond to or dismiss, since they believe that it has some value, in theory. The role function is triggered situationally, when individuals are met with situations that oppose their base aspect of reality. The base function only accepts information relating to its information aspect, and other information cannot be produced into new data with the creative function.
4. Vulnerable Function
The vulnerable function is also called the Point or Place of Least Resistance (PoLR) or sensitive function. The element in this function creates a feeling of frustration and inadequacy. A person does not understand the importance of this element entirely, and it can easily lead to painful consequences if not adequately considered.However, to directly engage this function creates feelings of insecurity and distress. One reason why the vulnerable function is so difficult to engage is because three other conscious functions come before it, making this one the most difficult to comprehend. Often an alternative approach may be found from the view of the mobilizing function. Because of the psychological disincentives to using the vulnerable function, people usually try to ignore information related to it, and in extreme cases do so even in situations where it is most relevant. Even with a theoretical understanding of how this element works, it is difficult to turn it into practical norms of behavior. One can "develop" the vulnerable function by recognizing that it is actually important in certain real-life circumstances. Even if the subject recognizes this, he will still usually try to avoid taking responsibility for it himself, or develop a minimalist or non-traditional approach (possibly using other functions) that is enough to satisfy one's own needs. The presence of a dual usually dissolves any concern there might be about how to approach matters of the vulnerable function.
- A type with Fe PoLR does not see the point of activities revolving around excessive displays of emotion or behavior that does not reach a concrete or tangible outcome. They would rather keep conversations serious and to the point, for he/she is overwhelmed by such emotional expression, making it quite difficult to express themselves. In social interactions they will make a serious effort to reduce their level of emotive expressiveness such as being too joyful or sad, believing that showing these signs will make them vulnerable to be influenced by others. They don't hold quite a high standard for how people as a group feel about something (even if outnumbered by many when making a personal decision), and instead value situations where they can speak their own subjective opinions and feelings freely.
- A type with Ne PoLR has a difficult time understanding ideas that seem new or novel, especially when it has no tangible effect on their lives. Leaving little to chance, they are able to plan out their lives for years ahead of time. This results in difficulties handling unexpected problems in their lives that put a halt on their usual pursuits, and they tend to fear all the possible "what-if's" when those problems prevent them from seeing a clear future. When unsure about something, these types can either avoid making any changes at all or making too quick and reckless of a decision, either of which resulting in missed opportunities.
- A type with Si PoLR has little patience for sitting back and focusing on how they can physically better themselves in the moment, especially if they are involved in what they view as a very important matter. They would much rather try to act on their long-term priorities instead of their physical comfort, resulting in problems such as an inability to be aware or care about present realities, failure to realize the physical or mental strains they are placing on themselves, and being generally unable to relax and take the focus off of their long-term pursuits.
- A type with Te PoLR tends to reject facts given from a source which they are personally unfamiliar with, firmly believing they can make their own decisions that are solely based on their own perspective and reasoning about it. They will tend to become defensive when questioned about their rationale or efficiency, pointing out that there is no such thing as objective "fact". Also, these types experience a significant level of stress in tending to day-to-day must do's and responsibilities in life (like routine maintenance or working productively), manifesting itself as a general laziness or hyper-diligence.
Super-Id Block Functions
Introduction
The third row of Model A (functions 5 and 6) is called the Super-id block. The subject will appreciate direct help to the Super-id, and sees tasks related to it as chores best left to others, but also as a source of frequent recreation. When feeling like there's something missing in his life, the subject will try to use his Super-id functions, but with limited effect, as it often comes off as overkill and is usually poorly developed. Only in the presence of complementary types can an individual let loose his child-like Super-id without fear of criticism. But ironically, although these types will maintain a good deal of their Super-id information in the atmosphere, they will at the same time doggedly encourage him to keep using his Ego functions, which in the end is the healthiest thing for him to do anyway.
5. Suggestive Function
The suggestive function is also called the dual-seeking function. The subject finds it difficult to be overwhelmed by this element, since it perfectly complements and drives the activity of the leading function. The more it is present in his daily life, the more he will naturally adapt to its presence (see dualization). They are easily entertained by this kind of information, and its sustained presence creates a soothing psychological effect. If someone experiences a deficiency of it in his environment, he may attempt to supply it himself, but become soon exhausted. Unlike the mobilizing function, concentrated and prolonged doses from other people are received positively (depending somewhat on the individual's degree of dualization).
People focus deeply on the use of this function in day-to-day life, always attempting to digest information received from the environment through this aspect of reality. This is because it complements the leading function, making an individual not only more understanding but more satisfied about their pursuits in the Ego.
6. Mobilizing Function
The mobilizing function is also called the activating function and the hidden agenda function. Help in this element is appreciated, but past a certain point is seen as excessive. The subject is more comfortable using this function than the suggestive function but still can only use it sporadically. If he isn't careful and directs it at an individual who does not value it, he will likely meet a harsh response, since they are almost sure to see it as a puerile gesture (more so than when he uses the suggestive function, usage of which comes off as more mature and well-considered, since he takes it more seriously in the first place). The subject's innate lack of balance in the mobilizing function can easily cause him to indulge in it recklessly or to sorely neglect it. It is best used in support of the suggestive function. If too much of this element is ambient, the person will get bored or even become repelled. He sees it as a necessary part of good living, but not a primary life goal.
Id Block Functions
Introduction
The fourth row of Model A (functions 7 and 8) is called the Id block. People see Id elements as a relatively easy, if somewhat boring and meaningless exercise, good for sharpening one's skills, but not worth focusing on too much.
7. Ignoring Function
The ignoring function is also called the observing, or limiting function. A person has very little use of this element, as it is the rival image of the base function, representing an antithetical approach to the same domain. It lies in the subconscious as a persistent annoyance to the individual. Therefore, he or she tries to ignore it. When lectured by another on the use of the ignoring function, the individual sees it as superfluous information, for he or she knows how to use the function well, but chooses not to use it in favor of his or her more convenient base function. Usually the base function creates byproducts relating to the ignoring function, but the way it describes such information is very carefully chosen to fit the view of the leading function.
A person limits the expression of this element in public (in favor of the base function), but sometimes uses it extensively in private, and can call upon it when necessary. For example, an SEI usually defaults to his base function and shies from activities that are highly physical or cause conflict, but if inevitable confrontation arises, he is able to use his Se and become fiercely coercive and quarrelsome for short periods of time.
The extreme avoidance of this function can make it appear weak at times. However, when engaged it does not cause the same kind of psychological stress as a weak function, instead creating a kind of boredom or malaise
.8. Demonstrative Function
A person uses this element mainly as a kind of game, or to ridicule those who he thinks take it too seriously. They often intentionally go against its conventional usage simply to prove a point in favor of their creative function. However, this function is used quite often in private, to produce information of its element to support their creative function when focusing on making contact with the external world.
A person will often have just as sophisticated an understanding of this function as his or her leading function. Unlike the ignoring function it plays a major part in a person's worldview, since as the vulnerable function of one's dual it requires especially delicate attention. Thus, when a person is given information regarding the element in the demonstrative function by someone else, they will tend to take it as obvious information that is irrelevant to completely focus on. One will often use the demonstrative function to defend and further support their beliefs made in the vulnerable function.
The demonstrative function is easiest function to use (after the base function) yet often occurs sporadically. When one experiences a problem regarding this function, one must correct it as it does play a vital part in a person's worldview.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
There is nothing to think some types are more rare than any other. Hence Ni is not more foreign than any other function.
If Starfall types herself in IEI incorrectly, then she has especially wrong understanding of this type and hence she gets especially more contradiction with others.
For example you, having correct opinion about own type as IEI, get much lesser contradiction with my opinion (as you said).
Does her boyfriend seem Se base or even Se valuing? No. My first impression is ILE. And yes, IEI and ILE is not so odd. But i really cant imagine her valuing Se. If someone came to her with Se she would just refuse and not play along in the NiSe psh and pull. And when you put her next to her boyfriend who is intuitive it becomes more clear that shes sensor.
Ni descriptions
These are good descriptions of Ni lead, in my perception even though they are using MBTI acronyms for Ni lead. I have posted before because it does explain how I use Ni. Not saying other Ni leads have to also experience it this way.
JUNG:Introverted Intuition (Ni)
By Dr. A.J. Drenth
As with all introverts, INFJs’ and INTJs’ first order of business is an internal one. They enjoy tinkering with ideas, perspectives, theories, visions, stories, symbols, and metaphors. Their dominant function, Introverted Intuition (Ni), serves as the veritable foundation for this inner playhouse. In this post, we will explore the inner workings and manifestations of Introverted Intuition in INFJs and INTJs. Since Ni is a Perceiving function, INJs often report that its workings often feel effortless. When INJs express the need to “think about” something, this means something very different from what it might for other types. Namely, the lion’s share of INJs’ “thinking” or cognitive processing occurs outside of their conscious awareness. Their best thinking is typically done without thinking, at least not consciously. For INJs, “sleeping on” a problem is as sure a route to a solution as any.
Because it does much of its work subconsciously, Ni can seem to have a certain magical quality about it. In fact, it is not unusual for INJs to be viewed as having some degree of psychic or prophetic abilities.Despite its magical appearance, Ni can be understood on a rational basis. What seems to be occurring is that many INJs have a highly sensitive inferior function, Extraverted Sensation (Se), which gathers copious amounts of sensory information from the outside world, including subtleties that other personality types tend to miss. Their Ni then subconsciously processes this data in order to make sense of it, like assembling pieces of a puzzle. Once finished, Ni generates an impression that seems to come out of “nowhere.” But the fact is that the intuition did not come out of nowhere, but from a synthesis of sensory data gathered from the immediate environment combined with information from the INJ’s own psyche.
Introverted Intuition (Ni), Vision, & Beauty
It is often said that human beings rely more heavily on vision than any of the other senses. This seems especially true of INJs, who often report a strong visual element to their Introverted Intuition. They often think by way of images rather than words. Their intuitions often manifest in the form of symbols, images, dreams, or patterns. This is consistent with Jung’s characterization of the Ni type as a dreamer, artist, or seer. There is a distinct visual character to these notions, which is why vision-related terms—foresight, insight, seer, visionary, etc.—are invariably used in describing INJs.
Considering the visual nature of Ni, it is no surprise that many INJs are highly sensitive to beauty—visual, metaphorical, or otherwise. French philosopher and INTJ Jean Paul Sartre confessed: “I’m only a desire for beauty.” Another INTJ, Frederich Nietzsche, wrote that “life is only valuable as an aesthetic phenomenon.” What seems to be of great irony here is the fact that, at least superficially, INJs seem to be valuing aesthetics in a way similar to their typological opposites, ESPs. The apparent reason for this is that INJs and ESPs use Se as part of their functional stack. The difference is that ESPs use Se more consciously, while INJs do so more unconsciously. This explains why INJs, the most otherworldly and abstract types, are often perplexed by their felt need to create beauty and immerse themselves in beautiful surroundings. This represents a common point of difference between INFJs and INFPs. Namely, INFJs tend to have far more refined, sophisticated, and exquisite tastes than INFPs, for whom Sensing is introverted (Si).
A Bird’s Eye View
Of all types, INJs are those most concerned with the “big picture.” This can be understood in terms of their Ni, which is the most abstract and forward-looking of all functions. Ni is comprehensive and holistic. Its visions, answers, and insights manifest as comprehensive wholes. Consequently, INJs often feel more like recipients than they do creators of their ingenious ideas.
In his memoir, On Writing, Stephen King, most certainly an INJ type, describes his process of writing novels. He is adamant about the fact that he does not consciously plan or piecemeal the plot or direction of his stories. Rather his stories emerge from his unconscious as preexisting wholes, requiring little as far as conscious effort or planning. Other INJ novelists report similar experiences, feeling that once they have established the spigot to their creative unconscious their ideas seem to flow effortlessly and without volition.
Because of the inherent sense of completeness in Ni-spawned insights, INJs often feel they have been granted a sneak preview of the future, or at least a vision of a possible future. This strong sense of foresight can serve as the driving force behind their desire to see their ideals actualized.
Convergence, Certainty & Conviction
While not technically a judging function, Ni often functions in a convergent fashion, providing elegant answers and solutions to complex problems. As discussed above, Ni takes clues gathered by Se and unconsciously pieces them together toward a comprehensive solution. INJs commonly report that the solution arrives through a single flash of insight—an “aha!” moment. This may occur while dreaming or awake, but tends to come suddenly and all at once, like an unexpected gift. INJ philosopher Frederich Nietzsche describes his intuitive process this way:
Something profoundly convulsive…suddenly becomes visible and audible with indescribable definiteness and exactness…There is an ecstasy whose terrific tension is sometimes released by a flood of tears…There is a feeling that one is utterly out of hand…Everything occurs without volition, as if an eruption of freedom, independence, power, and divinity. The spontaneity of the images and similes is most remarkable; one loses all perception of what is imagery and simile; everything offers itself as the most immediate, exact, and simple means of expression.
The powerful means by which Introverted Intuition reveals its solution are associated with a gut sense of conviction and certainty. INJs “know” at a deep intuitive level that it is correct. But they cannot stop there. Once they have received the intuition, they must work to flesh it out. They must articulate and illustrate it in order to render it accessible and useful to others. This is where their auxiliary function, either Fe or Te, enters the picture, helping them unpack their vision, sort of like decompressing a computer file. This process can at times be difficult and painstaking, sometimes taking longer than birthing the vision itself. But in order for others to trust and get behind it, INJs must do their best to translate their vision into words, images, or formulas. For INTJs, this might entail proffering a detailed framework of their proposed solution, including its parts and processes. INFJs may opt for a more metaphorical or narrative approach, using analogies, word pictures, or stories to illustrate their insights.
Rectifying Contradictions & Paradoxes
Ni can also be an effective tool for handling paradoxical or contradictory evidence. To the rational mind, two contradictory assertions cannot simultaneously coexist; one of the them must be rendered false. But according to Jung, the unconscious, through it’s innate creativity, is adept at reconciling opposites and transcending paradoxes. An INFJ friend of mine is a champion of paradoxical or Janusian thinking. In our discussions of philosophy, she has sought to transcend traditional categorizations and dichotomies by claiming that knowledge is at once relative and absolute, subjective and objective, temporal and eternal, etc. Again, to the rational mind, which relishes and even relies on such dichotomies, this can be difficult to swallow. When handled via the tools of Ni, however, paradoxes may become more readily comprehensible.
To learn more about Ni and the other personality functions, I encourage you to explore my recent eBook, My True Type: Clarifying Your Personality Type, Preferences & Functions:
Related Posts:
Extraverted Intuition (Ne) vs. Introverted Intuition (Ni)
Personality Junkie Home
(III) PECULIARITIES OF THE BASIC PSYCHOLOGICAL FUNCTIONS IN THE INTROVERTED ATTITUDE
8. Intuition
Intuition, in the introverted attitude, is directed upon the inner object, a term we might justly apply to the elements of the unconscious. For the relation of inner objects to consciousness is entirely analogous to that of outer objects, although theirs is a psychological and not a physical reality. Inner objects appear to the intuitive perception as subjective images of things, which, though not met with in external experience, really determine the contents of the unconscious, i.e. the collective unconscious, in the last resort. Naturally, in their per se character, these contents are, not accessible to experience, a quality which they have in common with the outer object. For just as outer objects correspond only relatively with our perceptions of them, so the phenomenal forms of the inner object are also relative; products of their (to us) inaccessible essence and of the peculiar nature of the intuitive function. Like sensation, intuition also has its subjective factor, which is suppressed to the farthest limit in the extraverted intuition, but which becomes the decisive factor in the intuition of the introvert. Although this intuition may receive its impetus from outer objects, it is never arrested by the external possibilities, but stays with that factor which the outer object releases within.
Whereas introverted sensation is mainly confined to the perception of particular innervation phenomena by way of the unconscious, and does not go beyond them, intuition represses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image which has really occasioned the innervation. Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by a psychogenic attack of giddiness. Sensation is arrested by the peculiar character of this innervationdisturbance, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its transient course, the nature of its origin and disappearance [p. 506] in their every detail, without raising the smallest inquiry concerning the nature of the thing which produced the disturbance, or advancing anything as to its content. Intuition, on the other hand, receives from the sensation only the impetus to immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to the specific phenomenon, i.e. the attack of vertigo, in the present case. It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds further, and finally fades. In this way introverted intuition perceives all the background processes of consciousness with almost the same distinctness as extraverted sensation senses outer objects. For intuition, therefore, the unconscious images attain to the dignity of things or objects. But, because intuition excludes the co-operation of sensation, it obtains either no knowledge at all or at the best a very inadequate awareness of the innervation-disturbances or of the physical effects produced by the unconscious images. Accordingly, the images appear as though detached from the subject, as though existing in themselves without relation to the person.
Consequently, in the above-mentioned example, the introverted intuitive, when affected by the giddiness, would not imagine that the perceived image might also in some way refer to himself. Naturally, to one who is rationally orientated, such a thing seems almost unthinkable, but it is none the less a fact, and I have often experienced it in my dealings with this type.
The remarkable indifference of the extraverted intuitive in respect to outer objects is shared by the introverted intuitive in relation to the inner objects. Just as the extraverted intuitive is continually scenting out new [p. 507] possibilities, which he pursues with an equal unconcern both for his own welfare and for that of others, pressing on quite heedless of human considerations, tearing down what has only just been established in his everlasting search for change, so the introverted intuitive moves from image to image, chasing after every possibility in the teeming womb of the unconscious, without establishing any connection between the phenomenon and himself. Just as the world can never become a moral problem for the man who merely senses it, so the world of images is never a moral problem to the intuitive. To the one just as much as to the other, it is an ae[]sthenic problem, a question of perception, a 'sensation'. In this way, the consciousness of his own bodily existence fades from the introverted intuitive's view, as does its effect upon others. The extraverted standpoint would say of him: 'Reality has no existence for him; he gives himself up to fruitless phantasies'. A perception of the unconscious images, produced in such inexhaustible abundance by the creative energy of life, is of course fruitless from the standpoint of immediate utility. But, since these images represent possible ways of viewing life, which in given circumstances have the power to provide a new energic potential, this function, which to the outer world is the strangest of all, is as indispensable to the total psychic economy as is the corresponding human type to the psychic life of a people. Had this type not existed, there would have been no prophets in Israel.
Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types. Hence, in these archetypes all experiences are [p. 508] represented which since primeval time have happened on this planet. Their archetypal distinctness is the more marked, the more frequently and intensely they have been experienced. The archetype would be -- to borrow from Kant -- the noumenon of the image which intuition perceives and, in perceiving, creates.
Since the unconscious is not just something that lies there, like a psychic caput mortuum, but is something that coexists and experiences inner transformations which are inherently related to general events, introverted intuition, through its perception of inner processes, gives certain data which may possess supreme importance for the comprehension of general occurrences: it can even foresee new possibilities in more or less clear outline, as well as the event which later actually transpires. Its prophetic prevision is to be explained from its relation to the archetypes which represent the law-determined course of all experienceable things.
9. The Introverted Intuitive Type
The peculiar nature of introverted intuition, when given the priority, also produces a peculiar type of man, viz. the mystical dreamer and seer on the one hand, or the fantastical crank and artist on the other. The latter might be regarded as the normal case, since there is a general tendency of this type to confine himself to the perceptive character of intuition. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle. [p. 509]
If an artist, he reveals extraordinary, remote things in his art, which in iridescent profusion embrace both the significant and the banal, the lovely and the grotesque, the whimsical and the sublime. If not an artist, he is frequently an unappreciated genius, a great man 'gone wrong', a sort of wise simpleton, a figure for 'psychological' novels.
Although it is not altogether in the line of the introverted intuitive type to make of perception a moral problem, since a certain reinforcement of the rational functions is required for this, yet even a relatively slight differentiation of judgment would suffice to transfer intuitive perception from the purely æsthetic into the moral sphere. A variety of this type is thus produced which differs essentially from its æsthetic form, although none the less characteristic of the introverted intuitive. The moral problem comes into being when the intuitive tries to relate himself to his vision, when he is no longer satisfied with mere perception and its æsthetic shaping and estimation, but confronts the question: What does this mean for me and for the world? What emerges from this vision in the way of a duty or task, either for me or for the world? The pure intuitive who represses judgment or possesses it only under the spell of perception never meets this question fundamentally, since his only problem is the How of perception. He, therefore, finds the moral problem unintelligible, even absurd, and as far as possible forbids his thoughts to dwell upon the disconcerting vision. It is different with the morally orientated intuitive. He concerns himself with the meaning of his vision; he troubles less about its further æsthetic possibilities than about the possible moral effects which emerge from its intrinsic significance. His judgment allows him to discern, though often only darkly, that he, as a man and as a totality, is in some way inter-related with his vision, that [p. 510] it is something which cannot just be perceived but which also would fain become the life of the subject. Through this realization he feels bound to transform his vision into his own life. But, since he tends to rely exclusively upon his vision, his moral effort becomes one-sided; he makes himself and his life symbolic, adapted, it is true, to the inner and eternal meaning of events, but unadapted to the actual present-day reality. Therewith he also deprives himself of any influence upon it, because he remains unintelligible. His language is not that which is commonly spoken -- it becomes too subjective. His argument lacks convincing reason. He can only confess or pronounce. His is the 'voice of one crying in the wilderness'.
The introverted intuitive's chief repression falls upon the sensation of the object. His unconscious is characterized by this fact. For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression. This latter quality is a compensation to the thin upper air of the conscious attitude, giving it a certain weight, so that complete 'sublimation' is prevented. But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, a complete subordination to the inner perception should develop, the unconscious becomes an opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence upon the object is in frank conflict with the conscious attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion-neurosis, exhibiting symptoms that are partly hypochondriacal manifestations, partly hypersensibility of the sense organs and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other objects. [p. 511]
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I never said it was rare.Read again. It is foreign to people because they don't know how it operates. Even professionals have diagnosed me with certain disorders because they didn't understand that my thinking process is normal and highly symbolic. They were concrete thinkers and clueless. I finally found a professional who "got it" and I felt vindicated. I didn't say there were no clues that other types could not learn to pick up on but at the very least they would have to have some idea of how Ni works as a lead function.
OR, maybe I am just crazy so in that case carry on with your INFP/IEIs...
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Aylen, post your IEI examples. give us the Truth
Aylen, post your IEI examples. give us the Truth
Ni polr...
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
It confirms her being IEI because you act like her.. hmm
And no i dont have evidence for it, but thats my impression.
You're on ignore, as are not contributing anything to the understanding of Socionics.don't know with fucking, but with thinking way the result is SEI
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I only watched the other videos you posted for a few seconds and ff through. I had no strong opinion on her type but I considered a couple. I mostly just thought she was kind of 6ish in the brief parts I watched.
Watching this video all the way through, I can also say she acts very similar to me too, in the kitchen, except I am, shorter, not as awkward in movements (unless intentional) a bit bossier and use Fe to get others to do the majority of the work. I complain that things are too heavy or I don't know how to measure them right. I do know how but it is a pain. I also hate cutting food up so I tell people I will end up cutting myself and dinner will be ruined by a trip to the ER. I suck at cutting things evenly.
Another thing, I will start singing randomly, like she did, sometimes using lyrics that pop into my head to answer a question instead of just responding to them. It depends on my mood. I also push people away from me when I don't want someone in my space. My brother is IEI and acts a bit silly and sings too but when he does it I try to cut him off so he stops. He irritates me with his archaic musical selections, mine can be more poignant and used to get an emotional response when used with the right facial expression. I can also do upbeat or goofy using a better selection than him. lol
He is trying to make dinner more because I am making him grow up, so the other day he is asking me how to make some sauce and I said put some sugar in it because it was bitter. Omg, it was awful. He apparently took that to mean a lot of sugar so we are both looking at the sauce wondering what to do and I told him to go buy a jar of sauce and we could make it work. He did and it was still sweet so we just randomly started adding stuff to it and somehow between us it tasted ok. I think anyone watching would have been like, wtf are they doing. I actually have had him bring me sauces that I gagged and spit out. Then I told him he was trying to poison me. It was pretty funny. We both suck at cooking.
I can be pretty silly for short bursts of time but then I can switch it off and lock myself away when I have had enough. Sometimes avoiding anyone who comes to my house because I just need to focus on my own thoughts and interests for awhile. I used to have movie nights which were fun but I am in an inwardly focused phase at the moment. Trying to sort out how all these concepts work in the real world, how they work together with other personality theories, and some metaphysical theories, in order to see how all this works together to explain human complexity. I have been sort of 5ish, on and off, for awhile but I am coming out of it.
Creative Fe people are not boring. We can also use Si role when we need to even though it shuts down our Ni for a bit. I am more open to her being IEI now. I will actually watch some of her more serious videos when I get a chance.
Edit: This is around family and friends. Getting my EII sister to act goofy is kind of a challenge. She is a more "prim and proper" version of me, even around family, unless you get her to have a few drinks, then she will sing too. My ESE sister can act silly pretty well. I do not do it around people I don't know unless I have someone who pushes me into it. Even then I am more self conscious in public of how others will perceive me.
Edit: I may suck at the art of cooking but sometimes I do get it right and then I am pretty proud of myself.
Last edited by Aylen; 07-08-2016 at 08:20 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
We'll try.
INFP examples from INFP example. Save us!
I am pretty sure about @Starfall's type so I don't think it needs defending. From what I see she has not flip flopped through all the types and seems she knew what fit her rather quickly. I do not need people to agree with me but validation feels good to anyone.We'll try.
INFP examples from INFP example. Save us!
Not to reinforce your stereotype of sexy IEI but here is my second offering to this thread. If there is a such thing as subtypes, she is what I think of when I think Fe sub. I don't really feel I have a subtype but I can work with the evolution of a theory, unlike you.
If you disagree it will just make my day.
Edit: I am no longer sure if I would give her a subtype. I listened to both interviews again and she has a good handle on both. She is an abstract thinker using Fe to interact with her interviewers.
Last edited by Aylen; 07-08-2016 at 08:13 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Of the three, she is only blonde. You would know that if you watched and listened.
Wendy James - I-P (wacey should to yell "dumb, blonde, bimbo")
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Aylen
I've watched more, including where she's older. She's a little "boring" and lesser playful than INFP, so Fi types (EII) I'll add to possible.
She is not boring.She is a 9.
Do you find your duals boring??? Lame...
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
when IEI become older their eyes stay "alive" like at youngsShe is not boring.
compare with her
Such supressing of external emotionality may relate to Fi leading or other type.
Plastic surgery can warp anyone's looks. If she was posting on this site as her younger self you would never type her your dual. You would be throwing her into Beta so fast...
Check her words too. Not her plastic surgery. Check out her fb. You made you ideas on VI known in the other thread and now you are just being inconsistent to suit your perception. You just said your duals do not use vulgar language in another thread or something similar.
IEI have 4D Fi read model A post I quoted above.
You Need Hands
Would you like to see more chaos in the world?
Transvision Vamp: “Yes, definitely.”
Transvision Vamp, you’re alright. Which is more important – the brain or the body?
Wendy: “Oh, the brain.”
Nick: “Oh, the body.”
Why’s that?
Nick: “You can’t fuck with your brain.”
Wendy: “You can’t fuck without one. You have to have your brain to tell you what to do. If your brain wasn’t turned on, you wouldn’t get a hard-on.”
Nick: “But if you just had a brain and no body you’d look pretty stupid.”
Wendy: “I think the two go hand-in-hand really.”
So it’s the hands that count...?
Wendy: “Hur hur hur. The spirit.”
Tex: “What do you go for in a girl – brain or body?”
Me? Eyes. Especially if they’re in the back of her head. What’s all this about Patti Smith, you manifesto maestros?
'
Wendy: “My favourite female singer. A true rebel.”
So will you be reciting poetry on your next record?
Wendy: “Yeah. Then I’m gonna fall off a stage and break my neck.
Then you’ll write a play with Sam Shepard?
Wendy: “Yes, that’s it. Phwoar, Sam Shepard.”
Nick: “Patti Smith’s the sexiest woman in music history apart from Debbie Harry. No, she is. I know she’s ugly, but she’s wild. Imagine what she’d be saying to you when you fuck her.”
Wendy: “So the brain is more important?”
Excuse me ... she went off to paint, didn’t she?
Tex: “Yes. And decorate.”
Wendy: “So anyway, tell me about her and Sam Shepard...”
Well...
*snip*
Come on, Transvision Vamp have a strong sense of reality – everything’s very zap-pow now, contemporary, bang up-to-the-minute (in fact, they straddle the thin line between self-awareness and self-consciousness), whereas surrealists would bung in a few elephants from 1862 ...
Tex: “Oh, the elephants are on the next album.”
The only thing I don’t like about the present day – well, hell no, one of the things I don’t like about the present day – is that all this technology and all these computer games (which youmore than dabble with) are not very romantic or poetic. There’s something cold and clinical ...
Nick: “It can be very romantic. ’Cos on your little computer at home you can phone someone up and leave a love-letter on their screen for the next morning. Kids now probably dream or fantasise in a different way to us. More violently.”
Wendy: “I shouldn’t think their levels of romanticism or dreams or creativity are any greater or lesser than ours, it’s just a different world.”
Nick: “Not all kids are at home with computers. Where we live they’re all out on the street selling dope and throwing stones at us.”
Wendy: “Human nature doesn’t change through generations though, does it? Just its surroundings.”
But it can be surreptitiously redirected. It can veer …
Wendy: “The emotions can be put through different outlets, but I shouldn’t think what they’re experiencing is any different to the anger and violence we felt when we were young.”
No 3: Charles Bukowski
Have you seen Barfly yet? What do you think of Bukowski’s writing?
Wendy: “Um – I love the way all the critics said there was no story, because of course there’s no beginning middle or end, it just is ... I love that romanticism. He was a drunken old fart who didn’t care about the concept of being some respected writer: he just wrote and wanted to drink. He was an old slob. But that’s far more enjoyable than somebody who’s really precious about their work and has got their head up their arse.”
But he still wrote. Why?
Nick: “To give him something to do when the pubs were shut.”
That won’t do. He could, and surely did, get take-outs.
Tex: “He shagged a lot of women as well. I don’t know whether feminists would like that sort of thing. Do they? I mean, would they?”
Wendy: “He only had two girls in that film.”
Tex: “Yes, but have you read Women?”
Wendy: “Yeah – if he was that out of it he couldn’t’ve got it together.”
So are you the Warhol of pop or the Bukowski of pop?
“Both. And the Salvador Dalí. Have you been listening?”
This was the first interview I’ve ever done where my trusty tape recorder didn’t work smoothly at first. I consider this a significant landmark in my you-kick-my-shins-and-I’ll-kick yours-you-bastard relationship with technology.
No 4: Holly Beth Vincent
Whatever happened to Holly?
Nick: “I saw her down the Rock Garden once. Miles away. Brilliant.”
Wendy: “She went out with Mark Knopfler, didn’t she? And disappeared?”
She’ll get some royalties now, anyhow.
Wendy: “Not if we can help it! Actually, I heard she became a drug addict in New York.”
Nick: “Became? I think she already was.”
Wendy: “Oh yeah ... Oh no, it wasn’t her that you knew intimately, was it?”
Nick: “No. That was Wendy Wu. But anyway.”
But anyway.
Wendy: “She went out with Paul Simonon as well, which you have to give her credit for. Holly, I mean.”
Wendy talks a lot about her love for the Clash, although, past a certain point, I think this might be a trifle tongue-in-cheek. Transvision Vamp’s tongue is in fact welded to their cheek. That’s a lot of tongue and a lot of cheek. Some welder.
Why Tell That Girl [for the next single]? (Psychosonic Cindy was diverted because “it was too psychotic”. Uh huh.)
Wendy: “It’s a brilliant comment, as it happens, on all those little girls who dance around on Top of the Pops saying: ‘You can fuck me too if you want to.’ Fuck me, I’m 22 years old, those girls are half my age, so I tell them to fuck right off.”
It’s designed to show you as a tough chick?
“I don’t know if it’s designed to do that, but it will do that.”
Hey, she’s sharp. But is she a tough chick? She’s been described in her time as both “conniving” and “naive” ...
Wendy: “It’s far more exciting to see a girl challenging, and saying: ‘You can’t pull the wool over my eyes ’cos I’ve got a brain actually.’ And the attitude of the song sums up what every girl feels in that situation: don’t ignore me just because you’ve got a new girlfriend. And it also ties in with Fatal Attraction, in my head. But that’s got nothing to do with it really.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...rock-backpages
Last edited by Aylen; 07-08-2016 at 09:54 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
vi is an unruly thing
Actually turns out that all of you are wrong. Starfall is IEI. She's kind and smart and she she's beautiful about all she takes good care of her family.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
onision is fi ego possibly and hes not boring
My go to example for a IEI female, where I have really looked into a lot of material, is Eva Green (also possible NA=/-). I think I have posted her in the Beta Examples thread. I have read a lot of interviews, followed her career (not sooo much the last years maybe) and I think it's not too off, really. She has described herself as painfully shy in her youth and that she took on acting to express herself. I think ESI was also an opinion for her type. Yeah okay she takes a lot of roles, that are kinda 'ballsy', but she says about herself she actually does it, because she is not like this in real life. But ok... maybe another possibility (although personally, from everything I have read and seen, I wouldn't give her that typing).
Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 07-09-2016 at 01:34 PM.
^rational, so, no IEI
why rational?
Rationals are more stiff, i dont really know how to explain it its more like a vibe or an impression i get, for some people i cant tell but for some people its more obvious.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...8-Temperaments
Compare these two women. The left is irrational and the right is rational.
I dont know about the two girls. She has stated in interviews, that she is kinda shy and doesn't always know what to do with her body. She can come across as uncomfortable therefore (which I personally see more in her expressions). It's something she often says about herself and the reason why I think she is 'lower in sensing'. So the thing is you can have different explanations for a certain kind of behaviour and the thing is, that I really have read into her and that over a long period of time and yes I priotize this over temperament body language etc., because I got more insight into her motivations and she is in my opinion a Fe valuer. She took on acting to express herself, to extort some of her demons. She makes rather unusual choices for the roles she plays. She plays a girl who clones her dead lover and is pregnant with that clone in one movie (Womb), she plays a teacher who developes a not so healthy infatuation with her student in another one (Cracks). I'm just saying that, it has no point regarding the body language, but just that she is quite unusual and I think Ni valuer. Honestly if I'm in the mood and have the time today/tomorrow, I will just drag out everything and go on...
She could be EIE
Always has described herself as painfully shy. Likes spending time at home listening to music than going out. Describes herself as 'not open' enough for social gatherings etc. Says she 'hugged the walls' during her school time. Felt like she was sweating, blushing when the teacher called her to answer a question. Likes recharging at home, says she is like a 'bear in her cave'. There a certain points that made me lean more towards introverted. But ok... fuck it.. EIE, IEI or ESI for possibilities. I will go with IEI, like I stated, bcuz... of reasons.
I’m not that confident in real life, so sometimes I’m drawn to playing strong women because I wish I could be like this in reality. Like if somebody annoys me, I wish I could say: ‘Off with his head!’ In general, I am very scared, so it’s kind of a dream to be so ballsy on-screen, even to be rude and evil. In reality, I’m really quite an introvert.
Eva Green - ENFP
In my perception T, S, E types women are lesser feminine and hence, in average, I find them lesser sexually interesting. Some IR also reduce it. Besides types there are other traits wich affect on this impression.
And surely I don't percieve all woman in the entertainment industry as significantly interesting, even when some of them have good body. For example, ESTP are one of the last for this.
as anything, it needs good skills to be "ruly". also there should not be used physiognomy
as it gives typing matches not much worse than questionnaires and IRL interviews, - the method itself is good
Last edited by Sol; 07-09-2016 at 03:55 PM.
Alice Eve
Alice Eve - ENFP
Shes introverted.
Whenever I watch her videos, that are posted on the forum, I think of @lungs. Not that they look alike but there is a similar vibe when it comes to their likes. I don't know if it is specifically Fi/Se as I have not looked into her that much. I think Eva might be sp/sx from her videos and words.
The random quotes I just read, elsewhere, strongly suggest Ni ego is possible OR she might just be an enneagram 4. Her words in the interview seem to contradict the very image of "otherworldly" that she projected (in certain quotes) even though she does not even consider that an accurate perception of her. I am wondering if some, not all, of her quotes are made in order to promote her image in certain movies. There is some kind of contradiction with her that I cannot reconcile. I wish I hadn't watched the videos and looked up her quotes. I was content seeing her as the magical, mystical, creature she portrayed,"Vanessa Ives" forever more. lolSelf/Sexual
This subtype also cares very much about their surroundings and their possessions. They feel as if these things help to express who they are. There is more of a passionate sense about them as compared to the self/soc. They have more of a sensual relationship with their environment. These Fours are much more tortured by their difficulty with respect to maintaining close relationships. The self-preservational instinct tends to be in conflict with the sexual instinct, causing this subtype to habitually analyze their relationships to the point where they find it difficult to be present to them. When unhealthy, these Fours can become very disdainful of the social environment. They also start to envy the ease with which others seem to form relationships and maintain friendships. When Fours of this subtype are healthy, they find that they can form relationships without feeling as though they are sacrificing authenticity. They no longer feel that they have to automatically define themselves as “different from others,” as outside the group. They are able to see the ways in which their emotionality might cloud their better judgment and to use that insight to establish equilibrium.
It is probably a given that she considers herself very introverted and I tend to agree, she appears to be. I am just not sure if it is due to some kind of social anxiety disorder or even shyness (which doesn't always mean introvert). If she is genuinely drained by too much interaction with others, and needs alone time to recharge, instead of just staying home due to shyness or anxiety then she is most definitely introverted. I had her character "Vanessa" as a 6 and didn't really watch her interviews until I had seen a couple of her movies and started watching "Penny Dreadful". Her vibe, to me is Gamma, which keeps leading me back to ESI. I really want to have her as an identical. I am doing mental contortions to make it work but something about it feels "off". I feel she is a sp/sx 4 though.
Anyway I really like her and I was hooked on Penny Dreadful. I look forward to any analysis you present as I am still looking for a way to have her in my quadra.The 416, 459 and 469 all struggle with painful self-consciousness and inhibition
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I will probably not get around to do this tomorrow. I have left out quotes/paragraphs from older articles, bcuz I really cannot gather it together rn.
Could you explain?
Yeah I went with sp/sx 4 for her last year. [post] I think it was where Amber suggested ESI. I have my argumentation (well... surprise surprise). I know people will be like yeah, you can basically argue for every shit, if you just know, what ‚facts‘ to select etc. and string shit together how you like it... Idk... it's just the way how it is, when people come up and say she VIs ESI... well I cannot argue with that either... if people see ESI more, then so be it. I can only tell you the way how I pieced it together... whatever.I feel she is a sp/sx 4 though.
She is pretty consistent, from everything, that I can gather. A lot of the things she says about herself show up in interviews months/years after again. Like calling herself painfully shy. I’m mentioning it, because I think it really opens the door to understand sth. deeper about her. It cannot have been easy for her, when she says, she started breaking out sweating, solely by a teacher calling out her name to speak up in class. She describes herself as ‚hugging the walls‘ in school. She went to a therapist with her mom, who kind of said sth. along the lines of ‚social anxiety‘, but that was (from what I remember the only meeting). She went through this phase in her teens, where she dyed her blonde hair black and started to really dress up dramatically (mentioning Nina Hagen as one of her great inspirations). There are also pictures from that time period online. I believe she searched for an outlet in dealing with her shyness and resulting problems of a feeling of not expressing yourself fully?I am wondering if some, not all, of her quotes are made in order to promote her image in certain movies.
She voiced her ambitions to become an actress and in my opinion it shows a important streak in her. She likes to challenge herself. I mean her mother (Marlene Jobert an actress from the french new wave, filmed sth. with Godard) was concerned for her, because she kinda knew how the business can be like. But Eva often mentions how acting is her ‚therapy‘. She can express herself fully in acting. Like forgetting about yourself, when you inhibit an character? She went to England for acting school (away from home etc). I believe acting and the way how she ‚acts‘, this is her creative natural way of expression. She needs it, to keep herself ‚balanced‘ so to speak and I think it is creative Fe.
See, she took on the role of Isabelle in Bernado Bertoluccis ‚The Dreamers‘ in her early 20s. It has full front nudity scenes and the like... she was pretty young then and she stated her reason to do it, because you don’t say no to Bertolucci, but what I believe is, that this role challenged her and she says she cannot understand it herself sometimes. Her being so, let’s say reserved on the one side and then doing something like this (she is pretty known for having a lot of nude scenes on film) on the other side. But I think nudity is well... the most exposed state and she searches for it in every film... like she wants to get ‚over herself‘ over her ‚inhibitions‘. This is of course maybe part of something else (like ‚social anxiety‘ ntr), but I think the way how she deals with is is an outer oriented expressive one – Fe.
This is from an interview from May this year http://evagreenweb.com/2016/05/06/q-and-a-with-eva-green-darkly-demonically-daringly-dreadful/When did you decide you wanted to act?
I was very shy — I still am actually — and my school forced me to do a theater class when I was 12 because they thought it would be good for me. My mother was an actress, but she stopped when she had children, and she would always tell me it was a cruel business. I went to drama school but thought I wanted to become a director. Then I started to act and really felt alive. And here I am.
(honestly nothing new for me, has been talking like that back in 2009 or so (that’s 7 years for ya, woah fuck...just thought back)
You’ve spoken a lot in the past about feeling like a nerd, feeling uncomfortable, feeling awkward in your skin, and yet, you’re an actor…
It is paradoxical. My mother used to say, there are two people inside you. I don’t know myself. But at the same time it’s my salvation, or something. I feel alive when I’m working on a character. I could not do something else. I’m very lucky that I’m able to earn money and that it’s my job. I think my shyness would have killed me in other jobs.http://evagreenweb.com/2016/04/28/%E2%80%8Ban-interview-with-eva-green-hollywoods-favourite-gothwarriorwitchmystic/#more-6364Well, the roles that you play do tend towards the dark and the mysterious.
When they put me in the ‘mysterious’ box, sometimes I’m like, whatever. It’s because I have dark hair. [laughs] It’s true that I don’t belong… I’ve always felt like this as a child, I feel like I’m floating, a tiny bit. I wish I could be more grounded. I don’t know how to put it. It’s shyness. At school, I was never in groups, I always had one best friend. If I had to speak in front of anybody I would almost pass out. Anyway. So, now I’m doing this, you see.
I believe her to be Se suggestive. Idk... maybe you can say well ESI-Fi is not super Se, like Se base or something along the lines... (NPA Theory?). But she honestly plays Se heavy roles in 300: Rise of an Empire, Sin City etc. and she really really always says, she is not like this in real life. She wants to be like this. She honestly always sniffs out these roles and I have read if you don’t get the suggestive you start to self supplement. Like if the suggestive doesn’t come to you, you come to the suggestive. I mean shouldn’t it be a bit different when it’s your creative? I think I often see it also in her interviews. I don’t say this to be mean... I just think sometimes it feels like she stays in some sort of ‚character‘. I mean yes she is still herself, but I think she amps up sth. Like you know... probably just like eveybody else in life. I mean she talks about how it’s tough business,you have to have an armor and everything. I believe this is where people might say, she might seem Se creative?
Another point for me, I really have read stuff and I just didnt really see Te suggestive. I mean if somebody goes with ESI, then Se creative? Te suggestive? I mean see I know it’s all rather technical. The function talk. The thing is the parts are there for me to form a whole. To think about someone as a holistic personality. Nobody thinks of themselves as a neatly stacked function order or I have my enneagram personality, I have my NPA type and I have my socionics type. Actually all these parts should be sth. that in the end come together holistically. Like is the end product with clear markers in the biography, understandable?
Eva Green as a shy introverted personality, that uses an profession which favors imagination and creative self expression as a personal outlet and the means to challenge her and keep her grounded. I mean is it really that far from IEI? I mean, if I do the same for ESI (Fi Se ego). Where is her emphasis on a deeply subjective feeling, that does not really seek to be instrumentalized by an outer objective ‚agenda‘, where is her emphasis on here and now experience, which needs to blend out any far fetched future projection to be really experienced? (she is more idk... planning in her Se, like showing it in movies)
I went with self preservational 4, because she has this feeling of yeah dauntlessnes at times and she also has this stuff where she decorates her home with goodies and things she mentions in interviews and I read in some 4 description how they can surround themselves with stuff like that. She also seemed somehow heart triad for me. I would only do one change for her from my old typing. I went with IEI-Ni then. I coud see her as IEI-Fe now. Emphasis on the creative and maybe therefore boosting the suggestive?
But I will say it again. People will be like ‚lol nice‘. Everybody can string stuff together how he likes. I mean I have read myself through things, you can say she is focused on Se - Sensing (like her style and I mean I also read she became a vegetarian and a lot of articles also have a lot of talk about hair products and whatnot). Idk if people see her as VIing IEI. Maybe they see more ESI and when everything points to ESI, then I will have written all this down and yeah...
woah I just read, that she likes Charlotte Rampling and they will be together in a movie...
Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 07-20-2016 at 04:21 PM.
Interesting, to me she vibes like @Persephone. At least how I imagine her to be : )
anna beatriz barros could be another IEI and Persephone lookalike
First, thank you for doing this.
That's the the thing, I can't explain the contradiction, I feel it, but I read your posts and read some things last night. The more I read, the more distressed I started feeling and I wanted to pull myself away but I couldn't. Like this energy was building in me and I wanted to crawl out of my own skin. I am still putting together what the contradictions are. I am waiting until something forms. There may be none. I read so many Eva quotes last night and it was like I was reading random statements from my own diaries dating back to my teens, almost verbatim, on some of them, and it was so disconcerting. It kind of left me feeling psychologically uncomfortable and I don't know why. Like someone is stealing parts of me and I don't like it :/
I mean I can actually relate to just about everything she says down to the mundane things, like not liking to wear makeup and preferring a "natural" look, preferring to wear sweats around the house and just listen to music and read rather than go out. I think part of the issue I am having is connected to her role as "Vanessa Ives" in Penny Dreadful. I also relate to Vanessa very much, both symbolically and literally. I typed Vanessa a 6>4 because of her way of facing and stressing about certain things. Maybe a 648. I do not think Vanessa was an sp/sx. I think she was an sx/sp. Vanessa's life of fighting the forces of "good" and "evil" in herself has been a lifelong issue for me. Her experiences of fighting demons and being followed by death is what my life has been like. I am not just talking metaphorically.
I can even relate to her role in "The Dreamers' for reasons I won't go into...
I think perhaps this is one of those cases of being presented a reflection of myself and not wanting to look into it. It is way too dark. Way too disturbing. I am not interested in the same grotesque things she might be but I mean Eva even likes beetles. i wear a scarab beetle. It is too much to deal with. lol
I saw on one site that she was a personality type 7 in numerology. Ugh, so am I.
My Numerology Personality has three 7s in the core numbers and the whole chart fits me a bit better than anything I have read about my personality in any other system. I am not sharing my whole chart though.Eva Green seems mysterious and different. People see her as serious and studious. Eva is highly independent and self-sufficient. Her acceptional intelligence and wisdom are quickly noticed, and people respect her. Green is not one to attract people on the basis of her warmth or compassion - though she may be loaded with both - but because of her obvious insight into life's mysteries.
She is hard to get to know, and is often withdrawn. It is common for people to see Eva Green's focus turn inside of herself in the middle of a conversation. Eva has the makings of an intellectual and an aristocrat but she has to guard against arrogance and an attitude of "I have got it all figured out". There have been periods in Eva Green's life when she had little concern for her clothing or fashion, while at other times she is very aware of her clothing and uses it to make a specific impression. Eva appears dignified no matter how she dresses, but a well groomed seven with a touch of dash definitely has an advantage. Green's confidence increases when she knows she is well dressed.
Eva Green is recognized as spiritual and religious, with her very own ideas regarding the purpose of life and the Creator. She is an inspired speaker, but only when discussing subjects that really interest her. Otherwise, Eva is not one for chatter. Her love of knowledge and wisdom shows.
http://www.celebrities-galore.com/celebrities/eva-green/personality-number/
I agree she is consistent. I appreciate consistency but on all the links I read last night, she states about the same 10 things about herself over and over so there is not much to go on that shows her cognitive processing. I get that since she is projecting a certain image of mystery which is part of the reason I like her. This could all be because she is social last though and a 4. Do you have a video that you think points to her cognitive processing?
I am not basing anything on VI, ftr.
Yeah, she kind of does to me too.
@Nymeria
Edit: re: Nina Hagen. Same, I love her, but also have very bad associations that I posted about before. I felt like I was cursed with some "bad luck" by listening to her when I was in my teens. I don't think that now though. Just some strange coincidences. :/
Last edited by Aylen; 07-10-2016 at 03:20 PM. Reason: to add link
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
No sorry. I only watched 5-10 min interviews, where she promotes her movies. Unfortunate that I don't have access to her diary, but I think her autograph adress is floating somewhere around the internet. Mb I just send her the 80q questionnaire (what do ya think about time) and go like pls fill it out for me, would ya? /jk. That part also occured to me. It's the reason why I think I didn't watched her latest project. I like her, but imo she somehow stayed with the same roles. Idk if this is a point for static and ESI. I also have seen it, that Ni doms can circle around the same things over and over and over again, to deepen something about it. Tbh I think if sth. is missing for you and it really bugs you, read more and then come to your own conclusion.
Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 07-13-2016 at 11:21 AM.
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