Examples of Socionics Alpha types

[on a peaceful hiatus]

if you're using quotes to determine his personality type,you will find many that highly suggest that he's an introvert.



“My passionate sense of social justice and social responsibility has always contrasted oddly with my pronounced lack of need for direct contact with other human beings”

maybe I will write in a thread about him in a few days, but I don't feel like discussing is personality type right now.

[karas]

if you're using quotes to determine his personality type,you will find many that highly suggest that he's an introvert.



“My passionate sense of social justice and social responsibility has always contrasted oddly with my pronounced lack of need for direct contact with other human beings”

maybe I will write in a thread about him in a few days, but I don't feel like discussing is personality type right now.

. Suggestive Si
The suggestive function is also called the dual-seeking function. The subject finds it difficult to be overwhelmed by this element, since it perfectly complements and drives the activity of the leading function. The more it is present in his daily life, the more he will naturally adapt to its presence (see dualization). They are easily entertained by this kind of information, and its sustained presence creates a soothing psychological effect. If someone experiences a deficiency of it in his environment, he may attempt to supply it himself, but become soon exhausted. Unlike the mobilizing function, concentrated and prolonged doses from other people are received positively (depending somewhat on the individual's degree of dualization).

People focus deeply on the use of this function in day-to-day life, always attempting to digest information received from the environment through this aspect of reality. This is because it complements the leading function, making an individual not only more understanding but more satisfied about their pursuits in the Ego.

https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/functions/Super-Id

[on a peaceful hiatus]

. Suggestive Si
The suggestive function is also called the dual-seeking function. The subject finds it difficult to be overwhelmed by this element, since it perfectly complements and drives the activity of the leading function. The more it is present in his daily life, the more he will naturally adapt to its presence (see dualization). They are easily entertained by this kind of information, and its sustained presence creates a soothing psychological effect. If someone experiences a deficiency of it in his environment, he may attempt to supply it himself, but become soon exhausted. Unlike the mobilizing function, concentrated and prolonged doses from other people are received positively (depending somewhat on the individual's degree of dualization).

People focus deeply on the use of this function in day-to-day life, always attempting to digest information received from the environment through this aspect of reality. This is because it complements the leading function, making an individual not only more understanding but more satisfied about their pursuits in the Ego.

https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/functions/Super-Id

do you really link this quote to suggestive Si?

[karas]

His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation. [p. 468] sugestive Si

[karas]

do you really link this quote to suggestive Si?

Introverted sensing is an irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing. Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail. Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.

Sugestive si girl

[on a peaceful hiatus]

it's nice and all that you're posting these descriptions of functions but what does that have to do with the quote I posted? prefering monotony and solitude and having a lack of need for direct contact with other human beings is simply not extroverted behaviour, and definitely not Ne as base function.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Even your profile pic ...

even sol's brain slug joke about my appearance was funnier tbh. your Ne is pretty uncreative for an ILE.

[cactagon]

it's nice and all that you're posting these descriptions of functions but what does that have to do with the quote I posted? prefering monotony and solitude and having a lack of need for direct contact with other human beings is simply not extroverted behaviour, and definitely not Ne as base function.

Are we jus gonna ignore my flawless rebuttal? You're wasting time talking about quotes (because, hey, if I was held to everything I ever said I'd probably be un-type-able too). Allow me to repeat that it is the very REASONING that Einstein uses (which can be found in his theoretical assumptions of the universe) that determines he is most probably NOT ILI. Einstein is famous for believing "God does not play dice." What does that mean? It goes AGAINST the logic of his day, which would have reduced quantum physics to the position of a calculator, a tool. Te is the logic of modernity, which I literally paraphrase from Jung's Psychological Types. The Copenhagen tradition accepts quantum phenomena as mere statistical probabilities, but Einstein, valuing clarity and Ti, knew there had to be more, there had to be meaning. Google Seth Lloyd to see a Gamma NT in action. It is Einstein's actions that support a Ti hypothesis; lettuce recall how vehemently Einstein debated with Bohr, and most importantly, how it is he reasoned (with creativity, not with 'look-to-the-past' Ni').

[Adam Strange]

I like Seth Lloyd's approach to Physics. I've read his book, "Programming the Universe". The guy is very nuts-and-bolts.

[cactagon]

Not to call anyone out but it seems most everyone here just says things without the slightest effort to post material to back it up. To say Socionics is not equivalent to Jung is to disregard the obvious fact that it comes from Jung's teachings. Lloyd is in a million years not Alpha. Reading an article on what it is that a person-in-question does and believes, not only how he comes off in a youtube video, should be tremendously helpfully toward that effort, because let's be real, Lloyds attitude is reserved for Gammas. He is known to exploit information technologically and literally describes himself as a "mechanic," which is to say he is oriented toward objective data for objective means aka $$$ (did you know he accepted $800k from Epstein? Ruthless Te). If you click on https://www.edge.org/conversation/se...what-a-concept , you can read him say "Einstein said, God doesn't play dice with the universe. Well, it's not true. Einstein famously was wrong about this. It was his schoolboy howler. He believed the universe was deterministic, but in fact it's not. Quantum mechanics is inherently probabilistic: that's just the way quantum mechanics works." "Just that way it works" = Te, it is an objective observation with NO insight toward the MEANING of quantum mechanics. He uses it as a tool, as most people with Te are inclined to treat everything...socionics isn't equal to Jung? Should I have found a passage on wikisocion to cover what is meant by the functions instead of relying on he who hath spawned socionics? Is there an actual authority on socionics? Jung is an actual authority. An actual psychologist with DECADES of actual experience in his field xD

[myresearch]

In VI terms, difference also can be observed. Einstein seems playful and explorative even while he's standing and doing nothing

Einstein ILE:



Seth Llyod ILI:

[on a peaceful hiatus]

http://www.albert-einstein.org/article_handicap.html

Some of the characterizations of AS described in the paragraph above actually apply well to the young Albert as we know him from Maja’s and Max Talmey’s recollections.

Both Maja and Talmey describe a boy who took little interest in boisterous games and, in general, in his peers, a boy who would concentrate patiently on elaborate constructions with building blocks or playing cards, delve into books and tricky arithmetic problems or play the violin. A sort of glass pane, as he called it many years later, separated him from his fellow human beings. Had such "social phobia" then been classified as a personality disorder, and had his parents and doctors felt the need to ‘heal’ the boy by making him conform to some norm, Albert might not have become Einstein.

Self-sufficiency, autonomy, a certain shyness and an extraordinary power of concentration, are traits that still characterized the adult scientist. He never felt comfortable with the obligation to deliver addresses and speeches and to mingle with people. The man who attracted women "like a magnet attracts filings", who was not afraid of having more than one love affair alongside his marriage and who stuck by his friends and lovers "in his way", this man nevertheless considered himself a lone wolf: "I never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart." Music was the portal into the place where Einstein sealed his emotions in order to avoid dealing with interpersonal relationships. Although he did not expressly refer to himself when once he suggested that young scientists assume the function, for instance, of a lighthouse guard, we know from many similar statements that the adult Einstein relished solitude, be it in his study, be it on a sailing boat or elsewhere.


I would really like to hear some arguments on why he is an extrovert, when many biographical sources make it very clear that he preffered solitude.

[myresearch]

http://www.albert-einstein.org/article_handicap.html

Some of the characterizations of AS described in the paragraph above actually apply well to the young Albert as we know him from Maja’s and Max Talmey’s recollections.

Both Maja and Talmey describe a boy who took little interest in boisterous games and, in general, in his peers, a boy who would concentrate patiently on elaborate constructions with building blocks or playing cards, delve into books and tricky arithmetic problems or play the violin. A sort of glass pane, as he called it many years later, separated him from his fellow human beings. Had such "social phobia" then been classified as a personality disorder, and had his parents and doctors felt the need to ‘heal’ the boy by making him conform to some norm, Albert might not have become Einstein.

Self-sufficiency, autonomy, a certain shyness and an extraordinary power of concentration, are traits that still characterized the adult scientist. He never felt comfortable with the obligation to deliver addresses and speeches and to mingle with people.

These kind of statements can be made for low Fi and Fe. Especially this statement suggests NT: "had his parents and doctors felt the need to ‘heal’ the boy by making him conform to some norm"

He never felt comfortable with the obligation to deliver addresses and speeches and to mingle with people.

Again suggests both low Fi and Fe.

The man who attracted women "like a magnet attracts filings", who was not afraid of having more than one love affair alongside his marriage and who stuck by his friends and lovers "in his way", this man nevertheless considered himself a lone wolf: "I never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart." Music was the portal into the place where Einstein sealed his emotions in order to avoid dealing with interpersonal relationships.

This one suggests ILE: Fi polr Fe mobilizing and Ne. Fi is good at calibrating the distance of relationships. Fi valuing prioritize one relationship or attraction over another. When you feel more attracted to some subjects/objects/contexts, you feel the belonging. Ne wants to actualize all possibilities. I would say that EIIs also like to actualize different possibilities, however, they are generally not actualizing it since they value one over the other and they know that future and stability can't be established in that way. Once you actualize one possibility you shut down the other and EIIs consider their level of attraction to make decision, this is one of the main points of their supervision.

Jung's Description of the Extraverted Intuitive Type (Ne-dominant)

Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social con- [p. 466] nections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility.

This part especially shows Fi+Se superego, I resonate with it as well: "I never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart."

Music was the portal into the place where Einstein sealed his emotions in order to avoid dealing with interpersonal relationships.

Low devalued Fi.

Although he did not expressly refer to himself when once he suggested that young scientists assume the function, for instance, of a lighthouse guard, we know from many similar statements that the adult Einstein relished solitude, be it in his study, be it on a sailing boat or elsewhere.

I would really like to hear some arguments on why he is an extrovert, when many biographical sources make it very clear that he preffered solitude.

This part suggests introversion over extroversion. I wouldn't type someone as ILE or eliminate ILE typing solely based on this sentence. This statement could be made for (low Se or devalued Se) or low F. Introversion and extroversion aren't necessarily directly correlated with spending time with people. Some extroverted static types may prefer solitude more than introverted dynamics and vice versa.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

"This part especially shows Fi+Se superego, I resonate with it as well: "I never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart."

Low devalued Fi."

his quote: A sort of glass pane, as he called it many years later, separated him from his fellow human beings and your quote is textbook introversion. Victor Gulenko describes introversion in his new book psychological types in the same way: introverts are merged with themselves but seperated by a clear boundary from the outside world. extroverted people are directed outward; they are open people. without feedback from others, they lose orientation and cannot process information. page 29. all NT logical types have problems with interpersonal relationships, because Fi is only 1 or 2 dimensional for them. what's more important is that he was motivated by himself, and clearly preffered solitude. I can't comment much on his skills with women though. I think it has more to do with the fact that many of them considered him attractive. this is a trait that is unrelated to his type in my opinion.

Victor Gulenko typed Einstein as ILI too btw.

[valhalla]

Seth Lloyd, yes, after closer inspection might be a Te type.

Using Ti in service of Te. Not uncommon, just not common to see a quantum physicist rather working in objective logic vs Ti.

Because QED 'works' {Te) through virtual particle mathematics doesn't describe why/how (Ti), this is true. The mystery still remains--> what exactly is the white noise fabric of Nothingness?

Seth reminds me of an older coworker I once had driving garbage truck. Obv Te type that liked to theorize about stuff, yet always wanted to get the work done as quickly as possible, and was physically lazy. Same eyes even.

[karas]

"This part especially shows Fi+Se superego, I resonate with it as well: "I never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart."

Low devalued Fi."

his quote: A sort of glass pane, as he called it many years later, separated him from his fellow human beings and your quote is textbook introversion. Victor Gulenko describes introversion in his new book psychological types in the same way: introverts are merged with themselves but seperated by a clear boundary from the outside world. extroverted people are directed outward; they are open people. without feedback from others, they lose orientation and cannot process information. page 29. all NT logical types have problems with interpersonal relationships, because Fi is only 1 or 2 dimensional for them. what's more important is that he was motivated by himself, and clearly preffered solitude. I can't comment much on his skills with women though. I think it has more to do with the fact that many of them considered him attractive. this is a trait that is unrelated to his type in my opinion.

Victor Gulenko typed Einstein as ILI too btw.

SLE Fi-Polr

[myresearch]

"This part especially shows Fi+Se superego, I resonate with it as well: "I never belonged to my country, my home, my friends, or even my immediate family, with my whole heart."

Low devalued Fi."

his quote: A sort of glass pane, as he called it many years later, separated him from his fellow human beings and your quote is textbook introversion. all NT logical types have problems with interpersonal relationships, because Fi is only 1 or 2 dimensional for them.

All low Fi types have problems about interpersonal relationships. However, Fi mobilizing and Fi suggestive types yearns for exclusive relations. SLI/LSE always ask who do you like the most X or Y, who do you feel closer to, who is your best friend and second and third. Although, both low Fi types have problems about Fi, low valued Fi is more aware of its importance and since Te compliments it, they know how to extract Fi information in somebody else. All low Fi valuing types generally underline their own and others' likes and dislikes. As Ti-doms/creatives know how to extract emotions of someone else. Alpha NTs especially don't feel the belonging to subjects/contexts since both Se and Fi are attracted to things in their own way. ILI wouldn't make that kind of statement publicly, ILI could vent about this kind of thing to his friends.

Refer to Albert Einstein's writing about morality:http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/library/ae_moral.htm.

Though our conduct seems so very different from that of the higher animals, the primary instincts are much alike in them and in us. The most evident difference springs from the important part which is played in man by a relatively strong power of imagination and by the capacity to think, aided as it by language and other symbolical devices. Thought is the organizing factor in man: intersected between the causal primary instincts and the resuIting actions. In that way imagination and intelligence enter into our existence in the part of servants of the primary instincts. But their intervention makes our acts to serve ever less merely the immediate claims of our instincts. Through them the primary instinct attaches itself to ends which become ever more distant. The instincts bring thought into action, and thought provokes intermediary actions inspired by emotions which are likewise related to the ultimate end.

All men should let their conduct be guided by the same principles; and those principles should be such, that by following them there should accrue to all as great a measure as possible of security, satisfaction, and as small a measure as possible of suffering.

There is no Fi in it, morality is evaluated in terms of Ne, Ti, Te and Si. I can't see any Ni or Fi, everything based on extrospection, there is no introspection at all.

His gaze always all over the place unles he is reading something. He is extracting information from random places always. He has a big smile, seems warm. What do you see in his general demeanor?

Victor Gulenko describes introversion in his new book psychological types in the same way: introverts are merged with themselves but seperated by a clear boundary from the outside world. extroverted people are directed outward; they are open people. without feedback from others, they lose orientation and cannot process information. page 29.

what's more important is that he was motivated by himself, and clearly preffered solitude.

If I take it literally ,this mean extrovert types can't establish a quality of work on their own since they can't stay on their own for long time to focus and create some work. Ne is an outward IE, however, it doesn't solely interested in people. Socionics introversion/extroversion isn't directly about preferring solitude over people or vice versa. Ep types are static. You can find lots of Ep types stating that they are extroverted introverts such as these: thread about shy extroverts, sociability vs extroversion, post by IEE . A person can prefer to spend time alone for introspection and extrospection.

I can't comment much on his skills with women though. I think it has more to do with the fact that many of them considered him attractive. this is a trait that is unrelated to his type in my opinion.

A person doesn't have may sexual/romantic relations because many people considered them as attractive. A person has to want to have this kind of relations at the beginning, ofcourse being considered as attractive make this easier. However, most would say that his charm isn't solely based on his biological features.

I am not typing Einstein ILE solely because of his relations with women. A person can do lots of thing or say anything for different reasons because of different backgrounds and/or conditions. I am sure there are womanizer ILIs out there. I think it is important to look at an individual from various perspectives to understand the overall personality. I don't see any indication of Te/Fi or Ni/Se valuing. Your only statement about your typing is that he prefers solitude which doesn't eliminate my ILE typing because my arguments made above. Could you explain why you think he is Ni/Se valuing or Te/Fi valuing?

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I understand your points, but I'm not sure if I have the time or interest right now to analyse him again, since I already did it around a year ago. maybe I will write in a thread about him in a while if I feel like it. my explanation here was short, but I think I made my point that he was not an extrovert, and your videos don't convince me at all. the only thing I can mention is that I don't really have a doubt about his type after analysing him. his behaviour doesn't even remotely remind me of any ILE I know. my memory is vague, but I analysed the things he spend his time with, his convictions (which made it very clear to me that he was not an ILE), his friendship with Kurt Gödel, but it's hard to remember it all now.

[karas]

maybe ILE you know Is LIE

Fake Fe (role Fe)

ENTj/LIE:

[on a peaceful hiatus]

maybe ILE you know Is LIE

I know quite a lot of ILE, since they are usually very curious about socionics, so it's easy for me to get in contact with them. I also have collection of them on my website. it's one of the easiest types to identify with VI in real life in my opinion.

http://soziotypen.de/die-16-soziotyp...ile-beispiele/

[karas]

I know quite a lot of ILE, since they are usually very curious about socionics, so it's easy for me to get in contact with them. I also have collection of them on my website. it's one of the easiest types to identify with VI in real life in my opinion.

http://soziotypen.de/die-16-soziotyp...ile-beispiele/

Janis Joplin , Hank Green,James VeitchENFP.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Janis Joplin , Hank Green,James VeitchENFP.

Janis Joplin is debatable, I initially thought she was an IEE too. the other two, nah.

edit: ok hank green is debatable too, but give me some good arguments.

[The Reality Denialist]

I started tol suspect Einstein bein ILI when I read that he was inspired by movements of a needle of a compass hence Ni autism with Te starts to raise its weird head. (Before you comment further on autism: it could be that with Fe instead of Te it is more like schizophrenia. Those two get usually mixed up.)

As for Joplin eccentric SEE must be considered.

[valhalla]

I started tol suspect Einstein bein ILI when I read that he was inspired by movements of a needle of a compass hence Ni autism starts to raise its weird head.

Weird I just bought a $200 SILVAN ranger compass for work and was youtubing how to find asimuths and bearings. Pretty straight forward stuff. So weird to see the topic of compasses brought up, but I guess its a pretty common thing to talk about.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

As for Joplin eccentric SEE must be considered.

I don't know. I watched two of her appearances on The Dick Cavett Show a couple of months ago and she didn't seem like an SEE at all. she's definitely not a sensing type. IEE or ILE are the only types that would make sense imo, but she didn't seem very emotional to me. many small things she said made me lean towards ILE, although I have to admit that at the end of the first clip it seems that she values Fi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgSzbdL1So

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBO-Mh_sRrU

[The Reality Denialist]

I don't know. I watched two of her appearances on The Dick Cavett Show a couple of months ago and she didn't seem like an SEE at all. she's definitely not a sensing type. IEE or ILE are the only types that would make sense imo, but she didn't seem very emotional to me. many small things she said made me lean towards ILE, although I have to admit that at the end of the first clip it seems that she values Fi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgSzbdL1So

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBO-Mh_sRrU

Gets stressed over cerebral people. That sort of mode is Ne at its core - being cerebral af. Ne is spiritual aggression. Lots of Se bases shit themselves when Ne bases talk but Ne bases shit themselves when Se bases act. Funny enough: supervises and conflictors respect that stuff.

But anyways... she was a rock star and used drugs so... I suppose it especially can blur lines between irrational super egos.

[silke]

Mrs Midwest - ESE-Si 2w1 so/sp

[Adam Strange]

Mrs Midwest - ESE-Si 2w1 so/sp

@silke, I agree that she is ESE. Her Si is overwhelming.

When my SLI ex-wife moved into the house I owned, she threw out all of my furniture and rugs, repainted and went shopping for new furniture.
When I started watching the video, I could not believe what I was seeing. The room she is in looks exactly like my living room, as decorated by the ex. The dining room looks exactly like my dining room (except mine has windows on the left wall, where she has pictures. But there are also pictures there). The sense you get from the furniture is exactly the same. The picture on the wall over the couch behind her looks identical to the one in my living room. We had large potted plants. There is a tastefully artistic lamp against that wall and a Stiffel lamp on the dark wood end table next to the couch, in the same position. There are split windows behind the camera which cast an illumination pattern on the wall behind her. It is unbelievable.

[Averroes]

SEI

[The Reality Denialist]

mb ILE

[The Reality Denialist]

more ILE's. This time: Let's make carbonated water out diamonds @$1650.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

John Locke - LII

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Clifford Stoll - ILE



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3ZlhxaT_Ko

doc brown irl

[toska]

ESE-Fe: Victoria Pedretti

[Ryan]

I know quite a lot of ILE, since they are usually very curious about socionics, so it's easy for me to get in contact with them. I also have collection of them on my website. it's one of the easiest types to identify with VI in real life in my opinion.

http://soziotypen.de/die-16-soziotyp...ile-beispiele/

Why do you think Boris Johnson is ILE?

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Why do you think Boris Johnson is ILE?

has been a while since I've typed him.

"As a kid I was extremely spotty, extremely nerdy and horribly swotty. My idea of a really good time was to travel across London on the tube to visit the British Museum."

https://youtu.be/3hRwnXmdRCo

[Ryan]

has been a while since I've typed him.

"As a kid I was extremely spotty, extremely nerdy and horribly swotty. My idea of a really good time was to travel across London on the tube to visit the British Museum."

https://youtu.be/3hRwnXmdRCo

That seems lacking.

You should probably put your thoughts in writing somewhere, for your reference and others.

It's kind of hard to judge the accuracy of a type without any clear reasoning.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

That seems lacking.

You should probably put your thoughts in writing somewhere, for your reference and others.

It's kind of hard to judge the accuracy of a typing without any clear reasoning.

I mention on my website that my typings are my own impressions that I get from my experience with socionics. I type a huge variety of people, often thinking about the type of several dozens of people every day. it would be hard for me to write it all down. I only include examples in my list when I'm relatively sure about a person's type (and I remove examples when someone makes me doubt about a a certain example), but it's your decision whether you want to trust my typings or not. I discussed Johnson's type with a couple of ILE friends a while ago and they all agreed with my assessment.

[Ryan]

I mention on my website that my typings are my own impressions that I get from my experience with socionics. I type a huge variety of people, often thinking about the type of several dozens of people every day. it would be hard for me to write it all down. I only include examples in my list when I'm relatively sure about a person's type (and I remove examples when someone makes me doubt about a a certain example), but it's your decision whether you want to trust my typings or not. I discussed Johnson's type with a couple of ILE friends a while ago and they all agreed with my assessment.

I understand. I think that is the fault of most type examples I have seen. Very few actually bother to elaborate. I'm not really interested in impressions. I want to know your thought process so to speak.

I realize that is easier said than done.

Cheers.

[The Reality Denialist]

ILE