his articles needed more additional explanations imo, but I think he couldn’t be botheredOriginally Posted by Adam Strange
his articles needed more additional explanations imo, but I think he couldn’t be bothered
subtype…?
I agree that we can be biased by our own ideas and experiences. I certainly fall into that group.
However, from what I've seen of LIIs, and I've known a few for many years, they tend to not have very successful relationships. (Neither do LIEs.) I think it's because of low-dimensional feelings, coupled with low dimensional sensing, but that's an argument made after the fact.
LIIs are the only group I've seen who marry themselves (other than some ESIs), and who have told me that "happiness in marriage isn't as important as some other things". I assume those other things involve personal comfort, but I could be wrong, since I'm not LII.
Well, you seem to have quite the fondness of SEIs I recall, which is totally fine and dandy, but at one point you started theorizing how the IEI-SEI kindred relation must be one of the best in general and I was just like: https://www.pinterest.es/pin/on-twit...1329666450563/
Also, I still don't get why you conflated Si with kindness, whereas the consensus seems to be that this would be Fe in public or Fi towards those close to us.
I just have been wondering for quite a while now about the reasoning behind those particular trains of thought, it's nothing personal, just curiosity.
Last edited by Armitage; 03-19-2022 at 06:55 PM.
subtype…?
I'm an LIE-Te, and she was an SLI-Te, so we actually interacted mostly as Mirrors, rather than as a Supervision pair. The Supervision only appeared when there were differences of opinion, and then the cracks (one-way conflict) in the relationship appeared.
I had an SLI-Te father (narcissist), and the SLI-Te ex-wife had an LSE-Te father (self-interested asshole), so we were already used to the abuse. The marriage felt like home in some bad ways. Lol.
I've met some SLI-Si females and I feel zero attraction towards them, so yes, subtypes matter a lot.
My son is also an SLI-Te and he has an IEE-Ne aunt, and he says that she's intolerable because she's entirely too scattered. On the other hand, my SLI-Te son has been helping my IEE-Fi bookkeeper move and together they are like well-oiled gears.
You mean in a different thread? I don’t think either kindred or look-a-like are the best..at all. Hm I’ll comment later on si stuff, need to think. I think si is to do with safety/well-being. Which I learnt from Rebel lol. I also think the polr is an important part of the personality which we can be good at, in a unique if not obvious way. Which I learnt from Rebel, sort of. He has an article.
Yes, the real life observations of an LII.
I agree he writes interesting stuff, but as an opposite quadra person, it's not the best for me.
It can be harsh to see yourself in the eye of someone who's opposite to you, mostly if it misunderstands where you're coming from, and there's little ways to bridge the gap because the misunderstanding is kind of fundamental to who we are.
@Adam Strange ok that’s interesting that you were opposite subtypes but you say you seemed a bit like mirrors. Is this part of socionics theory? I was thinking that for supervision having opposite subtypes might have the effect of making the relations seem more like a benefit pair..and stronger than same subtype supervision? But it’s just a thought.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 11:49 AM.
i feel bad to say this lol. I think he knew if he started to explain things too much he would feel pressured to explain more and more.his articles needed more additional explanations imo, but I think he couldn’t be bothered
he has a personality outside of being LII. He seemed like a person who generally had a lot of wisdom about people in general.
How are his observations amazingly spot on? Sometimes a person can wow you with their eloquence, yet say absolutely jack shit.
A poem could be beautifully written yet how wise would it be to actually apply it? You think that he might have been misled into thinking his system would work for everyone when his system probably only works for 10% of people.
Interesting points though.
Last edited by Stray Cat; 03-19-2022 at 06:35 PM.
He also said positive things about all types, if you pay close attention.
edit: this is my 1000th post, hurray.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 09:14 AM.
Cool and fucking cool.
This is why Armitage demanded I support my theory with appropriate rationale. I was happy he did. Why the fuck should anyone value my theory without appropriate accompanied rationale? Rebel isn't a moron but his psychological theories are TOO ideological yet many people (smart people) on this forum will mull over his theories that are more horse piss than actually wise
Rebel is very smart and valued here. His ideas are interesting but, to me, all they are is interesting.
You use "might" quite a bit regarding Rebel's analytical inquiries. Aliens "might" exist in another universe & you can certainly cherry pick possible reasons to support that theory but that particular psychological habit only serves makes your opinion so subjective that people could eventually tune you out, psychologically
You are an intelligent gal who has much say and offer but you owe yourself to bet on that intelligence, rather than be duped into Rebel's "possible" foolishness.
Sadly true, it's so weird, we're successful, popular, and oh so humble too (self-mockery, LOL), but in love we're terrible. Why do other types succeed in love, while we don't? To be charming we use our role Fe, not our Fi. It would make sense if we don't know what partner we would like to date and fail to foresee bad ones. It would make more sense to see LIEs in unhappy marriages, than alone, because we can be attractive... Thinking of it right now, you married your supervisor and I know that my LIE supervisor married a dragon of a woman first before he divorced her and found his dream woman. He has several pictures of her in his office, together with pictures of his step-daughter of her. On the picture of her in the train she had definitely a case of resting bitch face, like: "Quit the games and put that camera down, husband." I like her picture in the garden better in which she was genuinely laughing. It's been discoloured by the sun by now, but still the authenticity of the laugh shows.
When he was still married the dragon wife he tried to work as much as possible, in order to stay away from her. When he had divorced her and eventually found the love of his life, as he calls her, he was making plans with her for the future. They would travel the world together when he retired. Sadly she passed away a few years ago. Next year he'll retire and he says that he feels neutral about it, but I feel that that isn't true. He's still sad about her loss, which makes sense. When he said that he has accepted her demise, I responded that it's okay to still be mourning. Identicals are interesting, you just know intuitively what the other truly means.
He and I have spoken in between his feedback for me about his love and my dates with the money ESI-Se before, but I never asked him where they met. @Adam Strange, shall I do so?
That sounds sad, to settle for an unhappy marriage. I would expect ESIs, like my mom, to go for LSEs instead, due to a shortage of LIEs?
My parents met while working at Philips. You might be undercutting your chances of meeting ESIs by working as an independent company for the weapons industry, whereas most ESIs like a steady job for a moral industry. Either that, or you'll have to pick up horseriding like One said. My mom and her SEE best friend did it, I met many a female ESI at horseriding, and also a female ESI classmate of mine did.
Are they single and the same age, LOL?
I agree with chocolatte saying that you're the kindest person ever, because you're already apologizing in advance for the truth you said. Cute
By the way, if at any point I say something stupid, just mention, because I probably don't intend it that way. I'm under a bit of stress lately, which makes me blurt out my feeling thoughts more impulsively. I don't know how it works, but it feels like my Se is getting overcharged lately. I could do with some exercise, whereas instead I'm programming all day every day. Well, except for the semi-daily bicycle ride back and forth to university. Normally I can quietly work away for ages on my projects, whereas every Se-dom or -secondary would have become restless long ago already. But now I don't, I have excess energy... It probably all has to do with the return of my French date.
Last edited by Armitage; 03-19-2022 at 08:17 PM.
Yes, like everyone else.
It's still filtered through LII's functions, just like anyone else has filters, and filters will fit with certain people better than others for various reasons, types being one of them.
@Armitage you didn’t, don’t worry. Hmm I don’t know about kind, maybe. I find the word a bit tricky. But thanks. You are kind too. If I was too harsh on LIEs in any of my posts, soz. It was a phase I think :s
@Stray Cat I regard his ideas as being founded in science, I see him as a scientist. (His profession was in engineering). But I do question what I’ve learnt from him. It’s not a bad thing for you to remind me that I can trust my own observations. I do need a push to get out of my comfort zone sometimes to learn new things. But if I bump into any fancy professors any time soon, it’s Rebel’s articles I’ll be showing them
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-02-2022 at 09:15 AM.
Oh I thought of a dual couple I know who have opposite subtypes. Male ILE-ti and female SEI-si. They met at uni. He is now a successful dj and she has her own business.
I was thinking that Jay Z and Beyoncé could be as well. (ESI-fi and LIE-ni).
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 09:20 AM.
Technical engineers are hardly social scientists, I would say. Throughout my studies I have only met one social scientist cum data engineer and that's my supervisor. When I myself showed up at the minor in Computer Science and Engineering at the Technical University of Delft many questioned what a psychology student does here, because it's rare. The inverse also showed to be rare, as very few computer science students had social skills, just like the stereotypes predicted. I initially believed all these stereotypes to be exaggerated, but reality proved sometimes worse than the stereotypes even. There were students who not only would never get a date, they did not even have the desire to. Their computer was enough of a waifu for them, all day every day they spent behind it, programming for their study, gaming in their free time, and repairing them for their side job. I greatly enjoy the puzzling I do for coding, but I'm too social for such a lifestyle.
This is the kind of information that we're looking for!
@Armitage but he did seem to have a gift for understanding people. Sorry about my basic replies. I’m tired/lazy!!!Yes it’s interesting to think about the subtypes. I feel like I’m on an endless journey to imagine all the possible alternative romantic scenarios I could end up in, so I can imagine something possibly better than the attraction I experienced towards the SEI guy I used to like. The possibility keeps me going! Lol. I keep thinking I’m over it and the hurt feeling comes back. Maybe it will always pop up every now and again. Big then it goes and you feel sweet relief.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 06:36 PM.
@Bethany, I think this feeling is normal, I myself am feeling it right now. This week my French date returned. He popped up out of nowhere, came close, and left as fast as that he came. Once again he pressured me repeatedly to commit to his way of doing things. This time I had consciously decided to go along with what he demanded and offer only limited resistance to anything not too outrageous. He came, he took, he left. I had predicted that he would return this month. I can foresee most of his actions and I am not surprised that he left the moment he got what he wanted. I expect him to return again when he can use me, but that time it will be in vain. Two times is a pattern, it shows that he did not change over the past half year, while I did. He shows no remorse for the hurt he caused me and just takes, takes, takes without any sign of gratitude. My supervisor put it well, this guy has a dangerous sense of entitlement.
Like everyone else my supervisor tried to warn me, but I explained to my supervisor that giving in to my French date is a mistake that I had to make, in order to get over him. Now I have. I already knew that he mistreated me and behaved like a jerk, but now I've finally felt it without the rose coloured glasses on. I've read through our chat of the past week and it's all about him and what he wants, whenever I mentioned how I was doing I got barely any reply. At most he would ask me how I was feeling to start a conversation about what he wanted. He's a toxic guy and I wonder if he treats everyone like this or just those who he deems weak and picks as his next victim to exploit.
At least I can now let go, because the fault was none of my own. I can finally forgive myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc-itjRv_lk
Last edited by Armitage; 03-20-2022 at 10:24 PM.
Does this really make a difference?
Subtypes absolutely make a difference.
The less of a subtype you are the less it matters. Maybe there is some truth that different subtypes often end up with differing world views/divergent interests/communication styles. But ultimately this is just stereotyping. I think there is some truth in saying opposite subtypes have a stronger glue between them. I’m working with a strong ti subtype SLE atm, he is the nicest SLE you could ever meet. Maybe he’s a bit too ti-ish. It’s completely platonic but actually I feel very comfortable around him. It’s quietly comfortable but it’s apparent we have a deep respect for each other without even talking much. I’m convinced the reason I fell so badly for an SEI-fe is partially because he is fe subtype. Most average SEIs are lovely but ignorable to me, but when the fe is obvious to me, it’s like they’re not an SEI..but a more compatible type. Also my SEE brother is the only creative subtype in the family and has often felt like the ‘black sheep’. He is the person I least got on with, however my love for him is fierce. I think perhaps it differs depending on the particular ITR which subtype one might prefer, also non type related stuff is always more important but guess that goes without saying.
So much of socionics writing is based on stereotypes because it’s safer to write about stereotypes as stereotypes do exist. Describing ITR or personalities is attempting the impossible so it was necessary at first to write about stereotypes in order to convince people they existed.
edit: I am a ni subtype but I don’t know how much percentage wise. I think I always had a ni subtype but it became more pronounced as I got older (and experienced mental health issues). What made me ni subtype? Well, my father is a strong SLI-si subtype. Both my parents are si types so I guess I felt a need to withdraw a bit from them sometimes, perhaps feeling overwhelmed by the focus on si stuff. These days I like the si stuff, but as a young person 16-mid twenties, or even younger than that, I would have benefited from
the help of someone who could read me better, and realise I needed help with si stuff. And be nice about it, not unsupportive/snooty about it..in an ESE supervisee/ SLI super-ego sort of way lol. Both my parents received limited education so if we factor that into it, perhaps their polr was not developed enough in this sense, making it harder to provide what I needed. Sharing for discussion/therapeutic purposes.
I think my subtype manifests in the following way- I am rather quiet with limited vocabulary and also I have quite low motivation to get stuff done that is practical. I should 100% not live alone, but I do and have for a long time. I need to be around other people to feel the significance of my own physical existence lol.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-04-2022 at 03:28 PM.
It's already enough that you have to find and dual now you have to try and align the stars by matching subtypes, I don't know how a subtype could make much of a difference if the dimensions remain the same, someone in 4D can account for someone's 1D, how does a subtype affect that?
I’ve been thinking about an ILI-te I know. When we first met I knew we had a connection, but I also thought he would really like my sis if he met her..this was before I knew about socionics. My sis is SEE-se. On average I do get on better with ILI-nis but this one ILI-te stands out. The connection we had felt almost dual like. I just knew we had the potential to build a strong bond. I didn’t really want to date at the time, and in the end my sis did end up meeting him and they had an on-off thing for a while.
I’m going on gut feeling here, but this strong connection with the ILI-te as well as my other enriching experiences with SEI-fes, makes me think that kindred and lookalike relations can be pretty good if there is really good natural chemistry. I have tentatively said before that my experience with the SEI-fe felt more like semi-duality descriptions. It does make me wonder what is more important in making a relationship last- natural chemistry or ITR. I think if you want the relationship to last a life time good ITR is a safer bet. But if you want passion for 10/15 years..well maybe finding someone with shared interests/a strong connection and not caring too much about ITR is ok. I do wonder if passion/ a strong feeling of connection is something that can keep a relationship going a long time. And with this passion, perhaps comes some complementariness too, where you can help each other quite a bit. Semi-duals and illusionary may be easier to communicate with than kindred and lookalike and that can make them last longer, maybe a life time. But I think it’s slightly harder to find these types, or get comfortable with them so it might be less likely to happen. There’s a part of me that just wants to go clubbing every weekend until I find a likeminded raver who just feels passion for me you know? Instead of these boring dating apps, with boring people lol. But I’m not young, so I have up be careful and keep an open mind. My IEE friend told me do both lol.
edit: how many good SEEs/ILEs/ILIs/SEIs have I come across in life? It’s fairly even I suppose. I’ll list them later.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-06-2022 at 04:56 PM.
@Lord Pixel I don’t think subtype matters too much. I do feel a bit more ‘attached’ to opposite subtypes though. (If there is a natural bond in the first place). It’s like there is an invisible force field between you both lol. I’m still new to subtypes and need to type more people but there are def people of opposite subtypes I clash with. Also, forgive my lack of technical socionics insight, I mostly work with impressions, instinct and observations. Socionics is something I gotta take time with.
It seems like the subtype can give the type a different ‘flavour’. I associate creative subtypes with a euphoric feeling/feelings of admiration. Base subtypes feel more mysterious and solid. Something like that lol.
My two good friends are IEE-ne and IEE-fi. I party with the IEE-ne and we are part of a group of friends/family. I talk with my IEE-fi colleague on the phone a lot about my personal life. I trust them both. They both help me in different ways and I can picture them both being in my life a long time.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-06-2022 at 10:22 AM.
@Bethany, your IEE friend is right that you should do both, because that doubles your dating prospects, if not through dating applications, then through your hobbies, or vice versa.
Your interest in the ILI-Te might have been a fascination to tip your toes in Te? ILIs stand closer to you than us LIEs do, and he might have been a secure mentor to you to teach you how Te thinking works.
My ILI-Te shrink told me that he had a fellow shrink interested in him. We've known each other long enough that we are friends in addition to having a professional relationship.
He showed me her picture, and she VI'd as an IEI. He told me that she was really after him, and he really liked her.
I told him that she was super-attractive and that they could understand each other through intuition, but there might be problems in the future.
He went with a different woman whom he met on a retreat. She might have been LSI, but that didn't last. My shrink has some serious bonding problems.
yep te can be fascinating to me. But I think something about his te and my fe was the same. Or maybe our si! Or ni. I think some people don’t like lookalikes or kindred as they can feel too similar or familiar too you, like a sibling, or best friend. But if there is enough passion maybe it doesn’t matter..or it’s something that comes and goes. I agree kindred is a better match than supervision. But supervision doesn’t have that sibling feel, so can potentially be quite alluring at first. Maybe lookalike/ kindred need to have intense passion/connection to get started and mirror/supervision needs something else..I think generally lookalike/kindred can last longer, most people would agree I guess. Some people might think mirrors are better than kindred. You could be good friends with a supervisee/supervisor perhaps but it might be hard to make a life together?
I think kindred/lookalike is better because of the shared p temperament. There is just less likely to be disagreement when you’re both p or both j, less chance for resentments to build up, compromises to feel unfair. But there will be some supervision couples who are better than some kindred…I suppose. Though even a good supervision would be more likely to grow apart?
Uh sometimes I think the reason I’m a romantic IEI-ni type is because I’m a first born child of supervision parents, the ITR known for being rocky. And perhaps this means I’m more likely to fall for an SEI-fe…another overtly romantic type. Perhaps for the ITR that are less strong in terms of compatible cognition..there needs to be more passion to keep them going. I suspect the type of passion is different with different ITR but could be wrong. Can passion be measured lol.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-06-2022 at 01:52 PM.
haha oh dear.. ILIs have certainly shown interest in me before. I had a big crush on an ILI-ni but I think we’ll only ever be friends. There’s something oddly similar about us, we have some really nice dreamy chats once in a while. We have similar names (same initials, both with same initial for first and last name), both have several siblings. Similar ethnic background. When I first met him I thought he was so intriguing haha. In a similar way to the SEI-fe I liked. They both have this gentle way of moving. Which I think my mum has a bit I don’t know? My mum is a pretty ESE.
I liked him for a while but maybe we really wouldn’t have worked!
Oh also if I saw the ILI-te I mentioned on a dating app..I probably wouldn’t think he was attractive. In real life I do. Chemistry can make a big difference.
Royal dual couples..
Harry and Megan: SLI-si and IEE-fi.
Wills and Kate: LIE-te?? and ESI-fi
William LSE-Si
Kate EII-Fi
really…I want them to be same subtypes haha.
With differing subtypes the dimensions are not the same.
Is it like .5 more or .5 less?
same but like... she Fi's around too much!
And he makes these funny faces, similar to my LSE si colleague haha
I think it’s their differences that draw and keep opposite subtypes together. (If they can ever come together in the first place). For duals anyway.
also it just kinda makes sense in a way..SLE-ti are good at the stuff I’m bad at. I have to really try hard to care about the state of the world, and not only care about ‘being nice’, and people’s mental
welfare. This is partly due to having depression but it’s also just tiring trying to keep up with everything. SLE-ti seem to easily philosophise about current affairs and deeper moral questions. I’m not saying I should be with an SLE-ti (in a hypothetical world where we all meet duals) but maybe if I was healthier. Atm I’d probably benefit more from an SLE-se.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-07-2022 at 06:56 PM.
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