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Thread: Adventures in Dating

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I'm bad with abbreviations, so what phenomenon from the attachment video does "NICU" refer to?.
    Natal Intensive Care Unit. Preme baby=Premature Baby. One of my own relations had such a birth. Poor thing was confined to a plastic box for three months outside the womb with all kinds of tubes stuck into his form. His parents are wonderful far as I can tell, but like I said, you can't undo how our brains work in a mechanical sense.

    Well, I think it was three months. Point is he was barely viable when he was born and the box was his world up until he had finally become fully viable as a nine-month old baby (if we count from the moment of fertilization).

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamondhearts View Post
    Whether you have a lot of sex, have little or consider yourself celibate, it shouldn't matter. Your value and worth as a human being does not decrease based on your sexual history. I'd say an active woman could be a great wife if she wanted to if she had a partner who could satisfy her. Same thing with a man, or whoever. Sex is a natural thing and no one should be shamed for having these desires/urges. That's why they treat it like a game or form of control over others
    Mostly true. After all, you're never too old to start making good decisions. However, I will note that objective reality is, well, objective. While your intrinsic value as a human/sentient being is beyond reproach your perceived value is (perhaps sadly in this example) open to interpretation and that interpretation is actually pretty easy to figure out.

    Remember how for Gamma types like me Life is a game? A game with rules that only idiots fail to learn hard and fast? Yeah, sexual history actually matters and it doubly matters for women. "Can't turn a Ho into a Housewife" resonates for even non-Gamma types for a good reason. If she has 7 kids by 6 different fathers what are the odds you won't be the reason she has 8 kids by 7 different fathers?

    Kids I will note you probably aren't even trying to get close to emotionally. Big idea for anyone dating a "single mother" (or father) that you actually want to wife/husband up earnestly and honestly. If you must be "Captain Save a Ho/rake" than know this. The fastest way into the pants and ultimately heart of a woman/man with children they know is theirs is to try to heal their own children's attachment issues.

    You are, by necessity, crushing the innate dreams of the child. After all, what they innately want is for their true mommy and daddy to make up and get back together. If you wed her and become their step-father/mother you have, in point of fact, crushed their most wholly wished for and most innocent of dreams.

    However, there is something else I and most other ILI's will harp on. If you gotta do something "wrong", do it right. You are not their biological dad/mom. Yeah, damn right I'm not. Guess what, that doesn't matter to me because I can still be an amazing uncle or something else like that. I cannot "replace" your dad/mom, but I can still be an awesome figure in your life. You need a hug? I'll give ya one. Why? Because I wanna make you as happy as I can. I actually do love you faults and all! And I'm willing to prove it to you.

    I sadly regret to report that such thinking isn't encouraged in modern society...

  3. #603

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    No, @FreelancePoliceman, I don’t.

    The ESIs I’ve met are already really morally inflexible, and they immediately “do” things (exert force) in the real world, right now. What I’ve see me bring to the table is a -perhaps- Ne-based approach to moral behavior in which I explain to ESIs why life is not black-or-white. Why people might do something, not because they are good or bad people, but rather because their logic, or circumstances, drive them to some temporary solution (which might change).
    ESIs won’t tell you this, but they really are very black-or-white people. Probably their LIE Duals are best at being able to introduce some shades-of-gray understanding into their moral pantheon.

    Furthermore, my intuition of the future is pretty well developed, while theirs is not. This fear of the future (and ESIs are often e6) causes them to do things immediately, while I am better at judging how much time there might be available for juggling multiple projects.

    My problem with having stronger Ni is that, while juggling multiple projects, some don’t get done. Moreover, I can easily get lost in the possible chess moves and forget to MOVE THE DAMNED PAWN NOW. ESIs don’t do that. Their fear of not meeting their Fi promises makes them do things RIGHT NOW. This makes them seem (to me) strong and focused and taking care of business.
    They cover my back in real world action-type situations, which makes them seem strong to me.

    This is all theory of Duals, though. The way I actually feel is that I lack the ability to apply force in the real world but I wish I could (Se-HA). I might be able to plot the future, but I feel vulnerable (Victim) to physical actions which could be taken against me.
    In reality, I’m quite strong, but I feel like I need the hair-trigger awareness of danger that ESIs have and use to defend against physical threats. They are the canaries in the coal mine who call me, from my Ni-dream state, back to the world so I can bring the big guns into play.

    In turn, my Ni serves them by letting them know which threats are dangerous and which are not. You may have seen pictures where LIEs are characterized as knights, serving their mistress. There is a lot of truth to that. The knight needs the strong and immediate mistress who loves him, and he, in turn, turns the sword to the outer world.

    You, Freelance, being a mirror-image of LIEs with regard to the functions, should be able to make a nearly identical argument regarding your relationship with your own Duals, flipping only the extroversion and introversion of the functions.
    True, an ESI who is say maybe an enneagram 1 also might be morally flexible. But an ESI who is an enneagram 3 would be, I assure you, nothing of the sort. Fi has more to do with just morality. It also deals with a persons inner feelings, which is where the ethical/feeling dichotomy is opposite of say of logical types in that way in which we deal with logic. If you mix Fi with say a gut type you might get someone whose inflexible in how they feel about their ethics, but mixing it with a heart type or especially an enneagram 3 and you get a whole different experience I promise you. My ESI enneagram 3 friends and other heart types friends tend to be inflexible in their Fi yes, but it’s in a way that’s about their deeper Fi emotions/sentiments which they won’t betray or go against and they expect you to respect as well. Fi can be used in different ways and is a pretty complex function and it doesn’t always have to deal with morality, although yes an Fi lead would still be inflexible that way with it if it did pertain to ethics alone since us Ne polr tends to have issues with seeing other possibilities. Although, if I may add, having a difficulty in seeing other possibilities doesn’t have to always lead to black and white thinking or splitting in areas of ethics. That’s more unhealthy enneagram 1 territory than socionics type. We just come off as closed minded to other new ways and possibilities, but that doesn’t mean we won’t consider the possibilities we’ve already thought of in the past. Seeing Ne polr from the outside from someone else’s point of view is pretty different than actually experiencing it lol. These are just my experiences as an actual Ne polr with other Ne polr ESI and LSI friends that I’ve been close to though, and I’m not trying to invalidate your opinions and experiences on this matter in any way.

    By the way, yes we are forceful due to our 3D Se but I actually don’t mind if a guy is weaker than me since I actually unconsciously expect it from them since I’m an agressor lol. So if anybody has a problem with you being weaker in that function than them instead of them just taking it over for themselves then they probably aren’t your dual lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamablueberrymadeoflove View Post
    True, an ESI who is say maybe an enneagram 1 also might be morally flexible. But an ESI who is an enneagram 3 would be, I assure you, nothing of the sort. Fi has more to do with just morality. It also deals with a persons inner feelings, which is where the ethical/feeling dichotomy is opposite of say of logical types in that way in which we deal with logic. If you mix Fi with say a gut type you might get someone whose inflexible in how they feel about their ethics, but mixing it with a heart type or especially an enneagram 3 and you get a whole different experience I promise you. My ESI enneagram 3 friends and other heart types friends tend to be inflexible in their Fi yes, but it’s in a way that’s about their deeper Fi emotions/sentiments which they won’t betray or go against and they expect you to respect as well. Fi can be used in different ways and is a pretty complex function and it doesn’t always have to deal with morality, although yes an Fi lead would still be inflexible that way with it if it did pertain to ethics alone since us Ne polr tends to have issues with seeing other possibilities. Although, if I may add, having a difficulty in seeing other possibilities doesn’t have to always lead to black and white thinking or splitting in areas of ethics. That’s more unhealthy enneagram 1 territory than socionics type. We just come off as closed minded to other new ways and possibilities, but that doesn’t mean we won’t consider the possibilities we’ve already thought of in the past. Seeing Ne polr from the outside from someone else’s point of view is pretty different than actually experiencing it lol. These are just my experiences as an actual Ne polr with other Ne polr ESI and LSI friends that I’ve been close to though, and I’m not trying to invalidate your opinions and experiences on this matter in any way.

    By the way, yes we are forceful due to our 3D Se but I actually don’t mind if a guy is weaker than me since I actually unconsciously expect it from them since I’m an agressor lol. So if anybody has a problem with you being weaker in that function than them instead of them just taking it over for themselves then they probably aren’t your dual lol.
    This post exemplifies HP cognition really well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I matched with a girl on Tinder and we met. She lives close to me, just a few blocks away. I didn't expect much because her replies to me have been very short, almost rude. I suggested we meet right away so we did. I suggested we meet at the beach nearby. She seemed very shy, and hyper-sensitive but sweet. First I thought she might have some mental condition because she seemed to have problems speaking. When we became warmer and more open turned out that she is not so shy at all and very nice. Different types popped up in my head as we started our date, walking by the sea. IEI, ESI, EII ? Now I am 99 % sure that she is EII. Subtype is clearly normalizing. Our chemistry seemed fluctuating. We had a lot to talk about, but we could suddenly be quiet and distant. I feel numb to her Fi. I am torn about this matter, but she is attractive and very nice, and I can see myself spending time with her and see where this leads. I'm thinking about telling her brutally honestly about how I feel tomorrow: That I like to her but that our chemistry is what it is (neither good nor bad)
    Ok, it's been a few days and the event has likely already come and gone but here's a good suggestion. See, people who are broken, and I mean really broken, are deathly afraid of talking about things like personal goals and ambitions first. They'll try and get you talk about yours first so they can pretend theirs are the perfect compliment to your own even if they aren't. It's very tempting to talk about yourself on that front but here you must resist. Don't force it out of them but do all you can to gently prod them on this front.

    What do they want out of their life? Ex Nihilo. Fuck what you want or think. Fuck what the world wants or thinks! What is their most primal desire? What is their ideal self? Are they even willing to share? Imagine a world without social media so no risk of Cancel Culture. Can they? Will they? If Twitter died tomorrow would they finally be honest with both you and themselves?

    This next part cannot be faked. You must honestly offer to reciprocate. The greatest seducers never faked an instant of their interactions with their victims. Charmers like myself earnestly and honestly love to see others succeed. Envy (insofar as its sinful definition is concerned) is an alien concept to us. Those who succeed and go far are not targets to tear down. They are aspirational figures! We can and shall go farther than they however for unlike they we understand the full weight and meaning of the quote "There's no limit to how far you can go so far as you don't care who gets the credit."

    Benjamin Disraeli (Charmer extraordinaire) put it best: "Never explain. Never complain."

    God will know who truly accomplished the Herculean tasks or who at least enabled the demigod to get it done. Whatever power we attained was ultimately secondary to our truest pleasure of helping others succeed in goals we found to be both possible and morally acceptable. Don't hate the spider who spins his/her web if it is spun in the interest of making others happy first and glorifying itself somehow second. For the "perfect" web is self-evident. It will by necessity glorify the creator yet also still make others happier than the weaver ever dreamed.

    For instance, my is screaming my future wife is going to be a visual artist/illustrator (likely a big fan of Josei). That's good because I want to be an author and I am thus in dire need of such a person. If you want to sell books know that the cover is 80 percent of the "buy" decision for readers. That means if you want to sell your book for actual money you need amazing cover art. If you help her to become a famous artist it'll likely coincide with you hitting paydirt with a novel series she just so happened to do the cover art for. Plus having a "Josei" artist do the cover art for dystopian/Mil-SF/Space Opera fiction would be rather unique and that's a major selling point. It's a "twist" most readers won't see coming.

    Your successes fed off each other on that front. Great artists met and aided one another. A master storyteller met the artist who knew how to best evoke in the reading public the emotions the tale was meant to illicit with but a single picture. Writers can't draw and artists can't write. Thus, better to focus on your strength and let the other person do what they do best. In the old days Marvel got that fact. Writers would tell/give the artists a general idea of a story, and the artist would draw it up. Then the writer would then fit dialogue to the powerful images they were given. Both sides had a legitimate and important role in the "writing" of the story.

    The stories and the art that accompanied them captivated the whole of all who had the pleasure of being exposed to them. That's why the MCU was so cataclysmically successful. At least up until they ran out of the source material provided by the likes of Lee, Kirby, and Ditko. Now it's a bunch of death cultists trying to push an agenda and people are becoming disillusioned with it for good reason...

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    As for you being ruthless, well, sometimes you have to draw a line to enforce boundaries. It’s amazing how some people will treat you like a piece of trash if you let them. They will piss on you and tell you it’s raining.
    Dealing ruthlessly with people who are not honest with you is a very good approach, in my opinion.
    Yep. Had to learn this the hard way (by being overly patient with a sociopath who tried to scam me). I don't know where he is right now, but I hope that it's prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    God will know who truly accomplished the Herculean tasks or who at least enabled the demigod to get it done. Whatever power we attained was ultimately secondary to our truest pleasure of helping others succeed in goals we found to be both possible and morally acceptable. Don't hate the spider who spins his/her web if it is spun in the interest of making others happy first and glorifying itself somehow second. For the "perfect" web is self-evident. It will by necessity glorify the creator yet also still make others happier than the weaver ever dreamed.
    I'm not sure I understand your metaphor. I don't think spiders ever spin webs to make others happy. I also don't know that "glorification" is a concern that crosses their minds. They make webs, catch food, and survive because they do it. I'll be the first to say that community is important, but I'm not sure that this "real happiness is making others happy" is right. At least that's what I read from your post. You're comparing yourself to a predatory animal and it seems to bother you that other people would condemn your behavior. What I quoted reads like you're trying to morally justify yourself. I don't think that applying a moral framework to this makes sense. You don't try to get girls because you want to glorify God or make those girls happy; you do it because you want girls. And not because you want to "glorify yourself" either, any more than a spider is interested in that. If you believe your desires are evil I think it's better to determine the ways you are and aren't willing to change, and just understand yourself as evil if that's your decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your metaphor. I don't think spiders ever spin webs to make others happy. I also don't know that "glorification" is a concern that crosses their minds. They make webs, catch food, and survive because they do it. I'll be the first to say that community is important, but I'm not sure that this "real happiness is making others happy" is right. At least that's what I read from your post. You're comparing yourself to a predatory animal and it seems to bother you that other people would condemn your behavior. What I quoted reads like you're trying to morally justify yourself. I don't think that applying a moral framework to this makes sense. You don't try to get girls because you want to glorify God or make those girls happy; you do it because you want girls. And not because you want to "glorify yourself" either, any more than a spider is interested in that. If you believe your desires are evil I think it's better to determine the ways you are and aren't willing to change, and just understand yourself as evil if that's your decision.
    I think you said elsewhere that ILI's are Cold Humans and that LII's are Warm Robots. This may well be a case in point. Despite all my efforts to be a cold calculating mastermind I simply cannot help myself when I see the suffering of others. I cannot just allow them to suffer if I can help them somehow. Within reason of course.

    Yet people are people and their nature is fallen. If I just came upon them promising to "help" them honestly and directly they'd wall me off as yet another dumbass outsider seeking to exploit them somehow. I yearn to just tell them how they're fucking up and yet I know for a fact that if I do I will likely just compound their suffering as now they are going to auto-reject anything and anyone that sounds even remotely like me.

    This is where the concept of "seduction" comes in. See, they have blaringly obvious problems and insecurities. I got a whole friggin' conspiracy board in my mind ready but such thinking won't get a damn thing done in reality but it does tell me where they're likely fucked up and also how to best deal with that particular case.

    The draw of seduction is how you get the other person to do what you want without making a direct or forceful demand. It is a "feminine" power ultimately. It avoids direct masculine confrontation. Key to the greatest seductions was how the seducer allowed themselves to be in some way seduced themselves. Y'know how I harp on and on about attachment issues? Yeah, turns out you can't exactly fake real and true vulnerability. Only the "Secure" are able to not fake that. The real tragedy is how the broken can and do get so close to that they almost, almost, get it.

    To draw this to a close. I want to make my future wife happy. I will do so by both seducing her and allowing myself to be seduced by her. Again, as I've pointed out, one of the most seductive things you can do is to actually fall for your victim in the seduction game.

    As honesty is a key part of myself I won't hide a damn thing from her. If she asks me if I'm seducing her I'll tell her "Yes I am. As you are also seducing me right now as well and that's not a bad thing. It is simply what people naturally do!"

    She'll either fall in love with me or run for the hills. This also dovetail's with my repeated conceptions of "the lost" as I've labeled them. If I allow myself to become truly vulnerable in her presence and her response was to bounce than she was "lost" and I essentially dodged a major bullet. It hurts yes but it hurts way friggin' less than being on the business end of a literal yandere. That's how many a good man has died!
    Last edited by End; 06-11-2022 at 04:40 AM.

  9. #609
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    In the worst case, you both might learn something.

    It was my second LSI gf, separated from the first by time and distance, who convinced me that people with identical types have much in common.

    If I hadn’t proven this to myself, I might not now be looking so hard only for ESIs.
    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Ok, it's been a few days and the event has likely already come and gone but here's a good suggestion. See, people who are broken, and I mean really broken, are deathly afraid of talking about things like personal goals and ambitions first. They'll try and get you talk about yours first so they can pretend theirs are the perfect compliment to your own even if they aren't. It's very tempting to talk about yourself on that front but here you must resist. Don't force it out of them but do all you can to gently prod them on this front.

    What do they want out of their life? Ex Nihilo. Fuck what you want or think. Fuck what the world wants or thinks! What is their most primal desire? What is their ideal self? Are they even willing to share? Imagine a world without social media so no risk of Cancel Culture. Can they? Will they? If Twitter died tomorrow would they finally be honest with both you and themselves?
    Thanks for your comments. A quick update. This thread is "Adventures in dating" so I feel I also should also share the other side of the story.

    After our blind date she took 4 days to reply to me. Then I got a message. "Hi, it was nice meeting you. This might sound really surprising, but I'm wondering if you would like to buy sex. I hope you don't take this as an offense"

    She is definitely EII, and she seemed sweet and kinda innocent. But now I understand that innocence is probably due to some dissociation or something. She had also told me that she is currently unemployed. Anyway, this is the first time I've got this kind of offer so it took me a while to collect myself and then I started to seriously considering her offer. I wanted to do that, because even though it IS offensive, it is also kindof hot. As men I'm sure you understand. But I don't want to go down that road so I told her I won't buy sex from her, but that we can meet again the normal way if she wants to.

    So this thing is probably over. But I learned a lot, just as Adam predicted.

    I don't see any contradiction between EII and this kind of behaviour. Fi = independent morals, Ne= possibiliites, Te= go for the money Si= use pleasure to get money

    End, those topics to talk about on a date are good, although I don't normally talk about these things. But generally, I am too much of a SEI to keep these tactical considerations in mind on a date. I am bound by my type, but it's also good to go slightly beyond that. On a date I prefer to see what happens in the chemistry. She might pull out of me certain things or not. And I might do the same to her. To direct things by will is more difficult for SiFe ego, although I can do that also under good circumstances.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I once met an SEE-se on a night out, and we had a date afterwards too. It’s happened more than once that I’ve met someone, but I’ve been too self-conscious about my problems to date them. We had a really fun date. It was a week night and we ended up in a mostly empty night club.

    I recently had a date with SLE and he seems..I dunno, at this moment I’m interested in him. It does seem a bit slow in how it’s moving but that might be what’s right.

    I was thinking about the SEE-se guy I met all those years ago. He was really sweet and dashing. I don’t even have him on social media. There’s something about SEIs and SEEs- rare ones that just make me smile.

    But I like to think of ways to feel better about missing out on opportunities. I’m fortunate that I have gay male friends- so I get to hang out with really lovely men, where it feels a bit faux romantic, but not awkward at all. My good friend is IEE which is lookalike to SEE. His boyfriend is LSE and I tend to notice similarities between SEE and LSE. More importantly, these guys are people I really get on with, and I feel lucky to share fun experiences with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Thanks for your comments. A quick update. This thread is "Adventures in dating" so I feel I also should also share the other side of the story.

    After our blind date she took 4 days to reply to me. Then I got a message. "Hi, it was nice meeting you. This might sound really surprising, but I'm wondering if you would like to buy sex. I hope you don't take this as an offense"

    She is definitely EII, and she seemed sweet and kinda innocent. But now I understand that innocence is probably due to some dissociation or something. She had also told me that she is currently unemployed. Anyway, this is the first time I've got this kind of offer so it took me a while to collect myself and then I started to seriously considering her offer. I wanted to do that, because even though it IS offensive, it is also kindof hot. As men I'm sure you understand. But I don't want to go down that road so I told her I won't buy sex from her, but that we can meet again the normal way if she wants to.
    Such an innocent gurl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I don't see any contradiction between EII and this kind of behaviour. Fi = independent morals, Ne= possibiliites, Te= go for the money Si= use pleasure to get money
    She can be EII or not. However, she probably does to lots of guys and it is not because she is EII, lots of women who gets paid for sex do the same tactic. So just saying this in case of you thought Ne= possibiliites because she asked for money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    Such an innocent gurl.



    She can be EII or not. However, she probably does to lots of guys and it is not because she is EII, lots of women who gets paid for sex do the same tactic. So just saying this in case of you thought Ne= possibiliites because she asked for money.
    This is true. I think any type can ask for money in exchange for sex.

    I watch a lot of porn and I often type the women using VI, and much to my surprise, I think I’ve seen every Sociotype participating in porn.

    I mention porn because I view that industry’s workers as purely trading sex for money. So trading sex for money is definitely not a type-related characteristic.


    I think that for much of my life, I had a very wrong and idealized idea of “sex for money”, almost certainly due to my Delta upbringing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Thanks for your comments. A quick update. This thread is "Adventures in dating" so I feel I also should also share the other side of the story.

    After our blind date she took 4 days to reply to me. Then I got a message. "Hi, it was nice meeting you. This might sound really surprising, but I'm wondering if you would like to buy sex. I hope you don't take this as an offense"
    My first thought upon reading this was that she was selling herself cheap. But maybe she was just a female who wanted to have sex and found that, on this planet, she could not only have sex with random guys (what guy wouldn't want to be in that position himself?) and she could get PAID for satisfying her wants, too! I mean, it's like she won the lottery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    She is definitely EII, and she seemed sweet and kinda innocent. But now I understand that innocence is probably due to some dissociation or something. She had also told me that she is currently unemployed. Anyway, this is the first time I've got this kind of offer so it took me a while to collect myself and then I started to seriously considering her offer. I wanted to do that, because even though it IS offensive, it is also kindof hot. As men I'm sure you understand. But I don't want to go down that road so I told her I won't buy sex from her, but that we can meet again the normal way if she wants to.

    So this thing is probably over. But I learned a lot, just as Adam predicted.

    I don't see any contradiction between EII and this kind of behaviour. Fi = independent morals, Ne= possibiliites, Te= go for the money Si= use pleasure to get money

    End, those topics to talk about on a date are good, although I don't normally talk about these things. But generally, I am too much of a SEI to keep these tactical considerations in mind on a date. I am bound by my type, but it's also good to go slightly beyond that. On a date I prefer to see what happens in the chemistry. She might pull out of me certain things or not. And I might do the same to her. To direct things by will is more difficult for SiFe ego, although I can do that also under good circumstances.
    I think that the topic of "Sex for money and money for sex" could fill several threads, but let me just share my thoughts on it here in (hopefully) one post.

    I was raised in a pretty puritanical home, and the idea of trading sex for money seemed like something that probably happened somewhere on the earth, but it certainly didn't happen to anyone I knew.

    When I reached the point where I wanted to have sex with women, I basically went to the bars to pick up any female who was willing. I refused to buy them drinks, though, because I wanted the exchange to be non-mercenary in any way. I was really looking for love, but that's just me.

    I got married to a nice woman and the sex stopped completely after ten years. Most guys would have bailed on that marriage in the first month after the sex stopped, but I was thinking that I was in this for better or worse. I definitely had an overly ideal concept of what a relationship should be. I was basically stupid.

    After a long time, during which my wife basically demonstrated that she didn't give a fuck about my feelings, I divorced her. I started dating again, but this time, I was paying for dinner and admission to events. In the case of one IEI-Fe, I was buying her blown glass sculptures. I did this both to get some pretty nice art, and to spend some one-on-one time with her.
    I once told her that I wanted to have sex with her, and she said "That will never happen." She then asked me why, since I wanted sex and seemed to have a lot of money, I didn't just pay a woman for sex?
    I told her that I'd never paid for sex in my life, and she just started laughing. This pissed me off, since it set out in the open the fact that I had been buying her attention, and that I was really deluding myself if I thought I was going to get the love and affection from her that I was hoping for.
    "Goddam Betas", I thought at the time.
    At this point, I only wanted to have sex with women whom I genuinely liked, so I had evolved a bit from my college days.

    But you know, I later met an LSI who really did love me and I loved her in return. It was just unfortunate that she also needed a lot of drama and that I hate drama. I liked and loved her, but our values were not the same values. By now, I was looking to do the best relationship that I possibly could, and that meant not compromising in a fairly big area of it.

    When I was with the LSI, she was up for sex anytime and anywhere, which is how I like it. I frequently get these feelings of being unloved, and since I equate having sex with being loved, a quick bout of sex will entirely dissipate these feelings. From my standpoint, we were entirely compatible there. Additionally, she seemed to want a life where she didn't have to work, but rather just called her friends, went to plays or musical events or ballgames or swimming in the lake or going to bars or for a night out at a nice restaurant, and I was able to pay for all of that. She also was looking for a person who would buy her clothes and groceries and pay her rent, and I did that, too. It was definitely a "sex for money, money for sex" kind of relationship, but we also genuinely, and primarily, liked each other. I mean, I liked to hang out with her whether we were having sex or not, and she liked hanging out with me, whether I was paying her electric bill or not.

    You can think about a relationship between a man and a woman in terms of resources. Women, of course, have access to the most valuable thing in the world, which is the ability to have children. This is the thing of greatest value which they can trade on.
    Men, in turn, have the ability to protect woman (and kids) from the environment, and to accumulate resources to support them. This is what men have to trade on. Both trades are related to reproduction, but in modern society, we could, if we were being crude, call this "sex for money".

    When you think about it, trading sex for money, or providing a mother with a good home and a father with good children, is something that we all do to various degrees. Only the terms of the exchange differ from one case to another. Only the details matter, and they should only matter to the people involved.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-11-2022 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    This is true. I think any type can ask for money in exchange for sex.

    I watch a lot of porn and I often type the women using VI, and much to my surprise, I think I’ve seen every Sociotype participating in porn.

    I mention porn because I view that industry’s workers as purely trading sex for money. So trading sex for money is definitely not a type-related characteristic.


    I think that for much of my life, I had a very wrong and idealized idea of “sex for money”, almost certainly due to my Delta upbringing.
    Pretty on point but I'd stop watching or engaging with porno. Take it from a man who named Saint Augustine as his patron upon Confirmation and is an unrepentant weeb. I get it overall but I also get how and why it's a bad thing. Ultimately, viewing porno (especially if you have a GF or Wife) is adultery in the heart.

    Just because one might consume doujinshi over pornhub videos doesn't alter the core nature of the act save that the former has one potential argument in its favor. At least no physically existent person was harmed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My first thought upon reading this was that she was selling herself cheap. But maybe she was just a female who wanted to have sex and found that, on this planet, she could not only have sex with random guys (what guy wouldn't want to be in that position himself?) and she could get PAID for satisfying her wants, too! I mean, it's like she won the lottery.



    I think that the topic of "Sex for money and money for sex" could fill several threads, but let me just share my thoughts on it here in (hopefully) one post.

    I was raised in a pretty puritanical home, and the idea of trading sex for money seemed like something that probably happened somewhere on the earth, but it certainly didn't happen to anyone I knew.

    When I reached the point where I wanted to have sex with women, I basically went to the bars to pick up any female who was willing. I refused to buy them drinks, though, because I wanted the exchange to be non-mercenary in any way. I was really looking for love, but that's just me.

    I got married to a nice woman and the sex stopped completely after ten years. Most guys would have bailed on that marriage in the first month after the sex stopped, but I was thinking that I was in this for better or worse. I definitely had an overly ideal concept of what a relationship should be. I was basically stupid.

    After a long time, during which my wife basically demonstrated that she didn't give a fuck about my feelings, I divorced her. I started dating again, but this time, I was paying for dinner and admission to events. In the case of one IEI-Fe, I was buying her blown glass sculptures. I did this both to get some pretty nice art, and to spend some one-on-one time with her.
    I once told her that I wanted to have sex with her, and she said "That will never happen." She then asked me why, since I wanted sex and seemed to have a lot of money, I didn't just pay a woman for sex?
    I told her that I'd never paid for sex in my life, and she just started laughing. This pissed me off, since it set out in the open the fact that I had been buying her attention, and that I was really deluding myself if I thought I was going to get the love and affection from her that I was hoping for.
    "Goddam Betas", I thought at the time.
    At this point, I only wanted to have sex with women whom I genuinely liked, so I had evolved a bit from my college days.

    But you know, I later met an LSI who really did love me and I loved her in return. It was just unfortunate that she also needed a lot of drama and that I hate drama. I liked and loved her, but our values were not the same values. By now, I was looking to do the best relationship that I possibly could, and that meant not compromising in a fairly big area of it.

    When I was with the LSI, she was up for sex anytime and anywhere, which is how I like it. I frequently get these feelings of being unloved, and since I equate having sex with being loved, a quick bout of sex will entirely dissipate these feelings. From my standpoint, we were entirely compatible there. Additionally, she seemed to want a life where she didn't have to work, but rather just called her friends, went to plays or musical events or ballgames or swimming in the lake or going to bars or for a night out at a nice restaurant, and I was able to pay for all of that. She also was looking for a person who would buy her clothes and groceries and pay her rent, and I did that, too. It was definitely a "sex for money, money for sex" kind of relationship, but we also genuinely, and primarily, liked each other. I mean, I liked to hang out with her whether we were having sex or not, and she liked hanging out with me, whether I was paying her electric bill or not.

    You can think about a relationship between a man and a woman in terms of resources. Women, of course, have access to the most valuable thing in the world, which is the ability to have children. This is the thing of greatest value which they can trade on.
    Men, in turn, have the ability to protect woman (and kids) from the environment, and to accumulate resources to support them. This is what men have to trade on. Both trades are related to reproduction, but in modern society, we could, if we were being crude, call this "sex for money".

    When you think about it, trading sex for money, or providing a mother with a good home and a father with good children, is something that we all do to various degrees. Only the terms of the exchange differ from one case to another. Only the details matter, and they should only matter to the people involved.
    Sex stopped after 10 years? I think you mentioned you have kids so I'll bet money once the kids hit a certain level of development the sex suddenly dried up. If so this tracks with all the theories I've constantly laid out here recently. Namely, attachment issues and how they manifest. Once "mommy" sees the distress you're apparently causing the kids by not truly bonding with them then you go from "My Husband" to "The enemy of my children".

    To anyone, and I mean anyone but especially Men, if the sex dries up after kids enter the picture then the absolute first thing you must do is fix the issue with the kid's attachment. Mommy/Your Wife is locked into seeing you as an enemy to her children until you do down to the hardware of her very brain. Only once you fix your relationship with her kid(s) will she then be open to the possibility that maybe you're not so bad after all and she should be open to the possibility of spawning more of your children.

    Hell, once she sees her children cooing, smiling, and overall being happy in your presence instead (or, if they're older, speaking of you in now glowing terms whereas they used to denigrate and disdain the fact you are their father) she'll throw herself at you so hard you'll scarcely believe you're dealing with the same person. The thunder cunt is now so submissive and breedable it'll make your head spin if you are ignorant of what I've come to learn.

    If you just so happen to get all this while having a few ex-wives, well, pick the one whose life goals are most compatible with your own life goals and encourage the others to look for good Step-fathers. You could just go for the third option and wife up an outside party, but that's additional complications. It can still work but that's gonna be even more work.

    I will say you're setting yourself up for a metric fuckton of work if you want to wife up an outside party who is also a Lesbian ESI. If you're that down bad for her O.K., you do you. Though I will also remind you that ultimate happiness in romantic relationships is far more dependent on at least one party being "secure" attachment wise. Especially the male for obvious reasons if we get into the field of evolutionary psychology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    The thunder cunt is now so submissive and breedable it'll make your head spin if you are ignorant of what I've come to learn.
    Quoted for posterity.

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    Hm I had a date with a dual. It was kinda good, but I can’t tell if the chemistry is quite right. I’m hoping when we see each other again he will come out of his shell a bit. But I don’t know, it could just be that we’re better as friends. Maybe something could grow..

    so much for thinking I had some good matches

    the only really good matches I had were at the start of the pandemic, when everyone was using apps. Recently I matched with some people I thought seemed nice..but I don’t know maybe they seem a bit too safe.

    maybe I need to be open to something in between..nice-ish/hot-ish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Hm I had a date with a dual. It was kinda good, but I can’t tell if the chemistry is quite right. I’m hoping when we see each other again he will come out of his shell a bit. But I don’t know, it could just be that we’re better as friends. Maybe something could grow..

    so much for thinking I had some good matches

    the only really good matches I had were at the start of the pandemic, when everyone was using apps. Recently I matched with some people I thought seemed nice..but I don’t know maybe they seem a bit too safe.

    maybe I need to be open to something in between..nice-ish/hot-ish
    In my experience, Duals are hard to meet because their interests are so different from ours, but they don't step on our toes (because there is no competition between people who specialize in opposite areas). So they can be really easy to get along with, in almost every area.

    However, just because a person never competes with you, that does not mean that they are also supportive to your goals, nor does it mean that they are nice people.

    I think of Duality as a "necessary but not sufficient" trait. A good Dual and I also have to be going in the same direction and have the same goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think of Duality as a "necessary but not sufficient" trait. A good Dual and I also have to be going in the same direction and have the same goals.
    my comment deleted by accident..yeah that's a good way of putting it

    He definitely seems supportive..I think we need a couple more dates. I need him to be a bit more confident... But we haven't seen each other for a while now which I think is good, as it allows the confusing/weird/exciting feelings to wear off a bit and you can have a fresh take on things when you do meet again. First date involved dancing..good sign. It was fun but I was too tired and maybe he wasn't trying hard enough coz I seemed a bit loopy or whatever.

    But I think it'll take a couple more dates to see if there is something

    I've thought about messaging a couple of other people but I haven't. I wanna give it a good chance.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 06-22-2022 at 08:06 PM.

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    I have read a lot about ESIs over the years, and I’m constantly comparing what has been said about them to my own experiences with them.

    One of the things I encountered was stated by E J Arendee, in his great video on how to seduce each type. About ESIs, he said, “Hit on them once. Let them know that you are interested. Then never speak to them again. They no longer exist. They will do the rest.”

    Well, I’ve thought about that a lot and it has never seemed to be true. Almost the opposite, in fact. I ask an ESI out, and maybe she agrees, then getting a second date or a third is a brutal exercise in patience and persistence.

    But today was different.

    I was having a business lunch with two colleagues at an outdoor restaurant, when an ESI and her mother walked by and sat at the next table, with the ESI facing me. The ESI and her mother were dressed alike in a yellow outfit which showed lots of arm and legs. At first, the ESI was just talking with her mother (who was not ESI), but after a minute, she saw me examining her, trying to decide if she really was an ESI. And I think she was; an ESI-Se. She definitely looked like the sports model. She could have played tennis in that outfit.
    She return my gaze, blank at first, but then with some interest.

    To be clear, I was in a town that I’ll probably never visit again and my interest was mainly theoretical, but she, being an Fi-dom, assumed that I must have been smitten by her beauty. Lol, because the dispassionate logic of classification is not part of her universe. Face-wise, she was only a 6 out of ten, and I’ve seen a ten or two, so my interest was just hypothetical.

    Anyway, at that moment, I got a call and spent some time on the phone, and then returned to the conversation with my companions. I ignored her, in other words, although not intentionally.

    Later, after we had finished our lunch and were swapping stories about bad management, the ESI and her mother got ready to leave. I glanced up at her and she locked her eyes on mine. She smiled. It was a serious “come on” smile. She stood up, still holding my gaze, still smiling, and bent forward over the table to better show her cleavage. It was a serious challenge to me.

    Let me just say, I’m a Victim but I felt weird as hell. Like I was a bug, transfixed by a pin in a display case. She stood up, turned to walk away, but glanced over her shoulder at me, still smiling. I felt like I needed a shield and a steel jock strap.

    Well, OK. So I finally experienced the thing that Arendee spoke about. But I did so only with this one ESI-Se, although I think I could extrapolate the behavior of my lesbian ESI-Se decorator to the same point. On the other hand, I’d bet money that an ESI-Fi would not do that.

    Arendee is probably an SLE-Ti, and it is reasonable to assume that the ESI whom he got that information from was probably an ESI-Se, since SLEs are allergic to valued Fi.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-25-2022 at 05:47 AM.

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    @Adam Strange Lol Adam that's what you get for staring at strangers. I know what you mean about ESI-se..there are two at my work. They are quite captivating. Some LIEs have a strange power over me too- I end up wanting to be physically near them.

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    So I started to feel like I was attracted to the SLE I had a date with. We have been talking loads....of course as soon as I realise this, he stops messaging me back. I was a bit upset...I'll wait and see if we can talk a bit more..

    He seems like a nice guy. And it's funny, I expected to be more upset, but it's almost like the experience of getting to know a dual, makes you stronger. (Also, I think I am starting to become a more mature and realistic person). But yeah you hear of duals separating...not realising how good they had it. It's like the experience of duality makes them feel like they can go out into the world and get what they really want (or need in some cases).

    So if nothing comes of this, then I'm either gonna message a very hot SEE photographer..or message the SEI who wanted to go on a date before I met the SLE.

    I'm glad I am feeling ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    So I started to feel like I was attracted to the SLE I had a date with. We have been talking loads....of course as soon as I realise this, he stops messaging me back. I was a bit upset...I'll wait and see if we can talk a bit more..

    He seems like a nice guy. And it's funny, I expected to be more upset, but it's almost like the experience of getting to know a dual, makes you stronger. (Also, I think I am starting to become a more mature and realistic person). But yeah you hear of duals separating...not realising how good they had it. It's like the experience of duality makes them feel like they can go out into the world and get what they really want (or need in some cases).

    So if nothing comes of this, then I'm either gonna message a very hot SEE photographer..or message the SEI who wanted to go on a date before I met the SLE.

    I'm glad I am feeling ok.
    @Bethany, I think I know what you are describing. This same thing happened to me when I first (knowingly) started talking to Duals. They DO give you confidence to go out into the world. In my case, a LOT of confidence.

    Yes.

    They gave me confidence that I could go out with anyone, and so I did that a few times, and found that "anyone" was always missing something that the Duals had.

    Now I'm spoiled.

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    @Adam Strange I wanna message him but I have no idea what I’d say. I’m guessing he’s annoyed about something. See how I feel in a couple more days. I think he thinks he’s really nice..and I’ve probably offended him by not being appreciative or something lol. He is nice, but not like a saint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange I wanna message him but I have no idea what I’d say. I’m guessing he’s annoyed about something. See how I feel in a couple more days. I think he thinks he’s really nice..and I’ve probably offended him by not being appreciative or something lol. He is nice, but not like a saint.
    @Bethany, depending on how mature he is, he might be thinking a lot about how he feels when he's around you, and is puzzled by the fact that you seem to like him and don't think he's some kind of worthless dirtbag.

    He might even be thinking that he needs to up his game if he's going to hang out with you, and is wondering if it's worth it, because "upping one's game" is not the easiest thing to do in the world.

    SLEs and LIEs have the same dimensionality of Fe and Fi, and I can tell you that I, personally, don't expect to be liked, so when someone does seem to like me, I get suspicious about what they want. Basically, because I don't feel like I deserve to be liked. It's one of the reasons I try to help people, financially, and why SLEs try to help people, physically. It provides a reason that I can understand as to why someone is hanging around.

    ESIs like to get support and help with Te things, and IEIs like to get support and help with Se things, so it works out. But in the initial stages of a relationship, if someone likes me before I do a bunch of stuff for them, I get suspicious.

    My guess is that he's waiting for you to call him and ask for his credit card numbers, because that's been his experience in the past.
    Don't do that.

    In any case, you should give him a couple more days (which you naturally felt was appropriate) to think about it. Let him call you. Or if you decide to call him in a few days, just offer your natural "nice-ness", which IEIs have in abundance. Don't ask him for anything. Maybe tell him you know of a nice little place that has good tea, and you think he'd like the place. He probably won't give a damn about the ambiance, but he'll be feeling you out in person to see what the hell makes you tick.
    And, of course, he'll want to see you in order to get another hit off that Duality drug. He might not know what it is, but he'll soon discover where it comes from by process of elimination.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-26-2022 at 07:00 PM.

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    @Adam Strange thanks..I appreciate your insight, I do. Yeah he’s being a a bit secretive about his job/ job applications so it does seem like he’s got his guard up a bit. Also, he might need some time to realise that I wasn’t actually being that annoying

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange thanks..I appreciate your insight, I do. Yeah he’s being a a bit secretive about his job/ job applications so it does seem like he’s got his guard up a bit. Also, he might need some time to realise that I wasn’t actually being that annoying
    If it helps, SLEs all want to rule the world, and since none of them do (no one does), they can be a bit defensive about the fact that their job title isn't "ruler of the world."

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    @Adam Strange.. I dunno..it’s out of character that he would ghost me..maybe he’s just weird. Some British men are quite arrogant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    @Adam Strange.. I dunno..it’s out of character that he would ghost me..maybe he’s just weird. Some British men are quite arrogant
    @Bethany, I don’t think he ghosted you. I think he’s thinking about the relationship. With low Ni, that means “doubt first”. He might be busy with immediate stuff, or is waiting to see what you will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Bethany, I don’t think he ghosted you. I think he’s thinking about the relationship. With low Ni, that means “doubt first”. He might be busy with immediate stuff, or is waiting to see what you will do.
    Hmm..ok…I guess I’ll have to message at some point (even if it’s uncomfortable)..but if he then doesn’t message back then I suppose we’ll have our answer.

    We were in the middle of arranging when to meet..we kept changing our availability..and he suddenly stopped messaging. I don’t know, he earlier asked me about something ‘in a caring way’ and perhaps I closed him down a bit, beats me. I feel bad for him if took that offensively :/ I’d like a second date as we didn’t get to talk properly on the first date.

    I’ve said this before on here…but I’ll never go on a date again when I’m feeling under the weather. It’s so counter-productive and a very bad idea when you’ve never met the person before.

    he reminds me a little of the SEI jerk/my colleague. I don’t know what that is, worries me a little.
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 06-27-2022 at 01:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Hmm..ok…I guess I’ll have to message at some point (even if it’s uncomfortable)..but if he then doesn’t message back then I suppose we’ll have our answer.

    We were in the middle of arranging when to meet..we kept changing our availability..and he suddenly stopped messaging. I don’t know, he earlier asked me about something ‘in a caring way’ and perhaps I closed him down a bit, beats me. I feel bad for him if took that offensively :/ I’d like a second date as we didn’t get to talk properly on the first date.

    I’ve said this before on here…but I’ll never go on a date again when I’m feeling under the weather. It’s so counter-productive and a very bad idea when you’ve never met the person before.

    he reminds me a little of the SEI jerk/colleague. I don’t know what that is, worries me a little.
    Trust your instincts, Bethany. I think they are reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Trust your instincts, Bethany. I think they are reliable.
    yep, that with a bit of time, sleep and advice..

  32. #632
    The Creator and the Destructor The Iconoclast's Avatar
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    I never had a romantic relationship. I should get out of my schizoid head first and then try some adventures in this particular side of life.

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    I had the most fun and progress when I approached dating curiously and without attaching too many hopes to it. Not that I didn't pay attention to warning signs, didn't do some filtering, always had the "best" experiences, etc. And I definitely had a long game, so to speak. But for a long time I had certain expectations and predetermined notions of how things should go and where they should end up, and that stifled me.

    I think there's a balance between being too open and getting hurt or taken advantage of (or murdered) and being too closed where you miss out on everything.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  34. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I thought I was done with this site, but I’m back because I miss y’all and also I need a place to rant about the first psuedo-romantic experience I’ve had since freshman year of high school. Not even a true rant, I just wanna vent what happened because the hurtful words keep swirling around in my brain and I need to get them out. Typing stuff at the end.


    A couple weeks ago, I downloaded a pen pal app called Slowly and ended up receiving a letter from a 21 year-old Christian guy who lives in Colorado. Since he was an interesting, intelligent, and witty individual, a very silly romantic part of me was like “maybe this isn’t a coincidence but God Himself wanting us to meet??” Lmao. But I realized that was silly, so I just sent back a letter as I normally would. No flirting—after all, it’s a pen pal app, not a freaking long-distance dating app.


    But then, he started addressing me as “Miss Dreyma” at the beginning of his letters. Essentially said that he thought I was charming/interesting and hoped that I was charmed by him too. So, uh, I did flirt back a little. At least, I think I did. I don’t really understand how flirting works, but I think it’s just banter or compliments usually.


    That’s when things started to go downhill, which was my fault. When I’m talking to people one-on-one online, it’s so easy for me to overshare. I just trust people way faster than I should and get way too vulnerable. Anyhow, a couple letters into our conversation, a topic came up that made me think of my worst/only secret. And for some reason, I decided it would be okay to share said secret—so I did. (I will NOT be making the same mistake here pft, hence the vagueness.)


    He responded to the secret-reveal part of my letter by basically stating that he had no idea what to say about it. Not a mean statement but something that made me feel uncomfortable with having shared the information. I worried that he was judging me and felt too embarrassed to continue the conversation, so my next letter was a very apologetic goodbye in which I explained that I felt like I’d overshared and was too embarrassed to keep talking.


    He wrote me a letter reassuring me that it wasn’t a big deal and asked me to keep talking, so I felt relieved and continued the conversation. Unfortunately, things never did revert to the previous tone of conversation.


    We ended up having an argument about the Biblically-correct view of gender roles, even though we technically did agree on the issue. I’m just angry about it anyways, which he struggled to understand. (It’s called cognitive dissonance, folks.) I didn’t mind the argument itself, because it was more of a civil discussion than a heated disagreement. What I found irksome was him, after the fact, playing a blame-game. He insisted that I was the one who had started the exhausting discussion and had “really wanted” to talk about gender.


    The finger-pointing + a couple jabs at me + some random teasing about my secret sent me into defensive mode. I was upset since I’d said nothing but kind things to him. In response, I reminded him of how, actually, *he* had been the one to start the gender discussion. In regards to his jabs, I basically said that I didn’t appreciate him being so condescending/negative towards me, and I told him that the secret was a sore spot for me.


    In his next letter, he admitted that he’d been negative and was extremely apologetic. He took responsibility for how the things he said could’ve been hurtful. (Not that it *was* hurtful to me. Just annoying, I guess.) He also sent a few conversation starters.


    The questions were about what I’m really good at, what I’m passionate about, and what my dream home would be. Again, I was vulnerable/honest and admitted that—though I am decently good many things and am decently interested in many things—I am not really good at anything or passionate about anything. And then I described my dream house, which is rather average/boring.


    He responded by saying that he’d made a mistake, misjudged me. (Interestingly, he’d earlier bragged about how he was great at reading people pft.) He said he’d initially thought that I was interesting and not like others girls (yes, he used that exact phrase unironically)—but I turned out to be a boring/uninteresting cliché suburban white girl. He said he was sorry for asking me to stay after I went crazy. There was a bit more to his rude rant than that, but the jist of it was me being a crazy girl and a boring/uninteresting/lame individual. He at least had the self-awareness to admit that he was being a bully. But he essentially claimed it was justified for him to hurt me since I supposedly had hurt him earlier by almost leaving. And he said that I should’ve at least listed Jesus as a passion, that my faith is lukewarm/watery. He’s right about that, sadly.


    I should’ve known he was overly judgmental when he ranted about disliking atheists… and weebs… and left-leaning people… and people who go to the wilderness to hang out with others rather than to enjoy the solitude of nature… and Californians… and professors… and stereotypical bookworms… and the list goes on and on. I guess I *did* realize. I even said at one point “if you’re this judgmental, it’s only gonna be a matter of time before you want to rant about *me.*” He denied that he would, but I was right in hindsight.


    It was honestly quite hurtful. I often worry that I’m way more mentally/emotionally unwell than the average person, so being called “crazy” just hit me in the gut. Similarly, I worry that I’m a dull person without anything interesting to say, so being called “boring” and “cliché” just cemented that fear. On top of all that, I did have a crush on him despite how judgmental he was—and rejection always stings.


    I feel incredibly pathetic for allowing a very brief letter exchange to affect my emotional state this much, but I’ve felt pretty down because of this for the past couple days. As pitiful as it is, this is probably the closest thing I’ve had to a break-up lmao. I’ve never had anyone initially like me and then dislike me as they got to know me more. It makes me feel like, these days, I’m too unhealthy for the “just be yourself” advice to be effective.


    Anyways, thank you for reading my rant if you had the patience to make it this far. If anyone would be interested in typing him, I’d be curious. I initially thought LSE for fairly superficial reasons, based on what people here have said about my dual. Enjoys the typical “guy activities” like fishing and football and yard work and fixing stuff. Seemed potentially Te-base in how passionate he was about reading/learning and in how intimidatingly knowledgable was for someone only a couple years older than me. He did mention being introverted but not liking the connotations of the word since it implies him being shy / lacking confidence. Struck me as kinda LSE-ish since I’ve seen people say that they’re socially introverted for an extraverted type.
    @Dreymagine, I'm sorry that your experience with this guy didn't turn out well. Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes rejection. But I think that's just something that we risk when we put ourselves out there to try to connect with another person. If it's any consolation, you'd probably have much better luck when dealing with someone in person, since it's very hard to evaluate a person remotely.

    I don't think you provided enough information to really type this guy, although as you were describing him, I did picture an LSE, although that might be due to my inclination to pair people with their Duals.

    Having someone initially say that they really like you and then later say that they were wrong about you being an amazing person is both tragic and laughable. Sorry, but it kind of is. I mean, I think that 99% of all guys will tell a woman that she's amazing upon an initial meeting. She could be scary ugly and stupid and a guy will still talk her up. It's just the urge to reproduce speaking. At least, it is in my case. I'm sure that there are guys out there who will deny that they do this.
    I think it just goes with the dating territory, and you should ignore it in favor of watching what the guy does, not says, long term. Which is what you were doing, I'd say.

    I actually have a theory of interpersonal dating now. I think of two people as being surrounded by a magnetic attraction-repulsion field. If you meet a Quasi-Identical, the fields between the two of you are pure repulsion. If a Conflictor, the fields are slightly attractive at a distance, and then become repulsive as they get closer.
    If you meet a semi-Dual, the fields are attractive until you get very close, and then they become repulsive in the last few inches. If a Dual, the fields are vaguely mixed at a distance, have a slight repulsive hump a few feet out, and then become purely attractive from there to zero distance.

    So, most people have some optimum distance at which their influence is best. For Quasis, it's infinity. For Duals, it's zero. For everyone else, it's somewhere in-between. But it's easiest to "feel" these fields of attraction and repulsion in person. They just don't show up well over text.

    So, use this experience to know that you were right about the guy eventually treating you the same way that he treats the least important person in his life, and try again with some guy that you meet in person. I think you'll do a lot better that way.

    Good luck to you!

  35. #635

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    @Dreymagine he sounds really annoying. And like you say- a bully. He seems way too confident in being a little bitch online. People should be able to control themselves. You are not those things he said about you- he just wants to feel like the conversation is worthwhile for him and that he has ‘taught’ you something. It’s immaturity or idiocy if he can’t empathise with your viewpoint. Well done for being brave and talking to someone. I agree with Adam that it’s easier in person but even then people can be confusing. I think it’s better to have fairly casual conversation at first- people shouldn’t have to tell you what type of person they are, you’ll be able to tell soon enough after some normal, low key convos. You seem intelligent and very nice- you’ll be able to figure out which guys are worth getting to know. Might take a few attempts. You reminded me a bit of my EII friend at uni in your post- and she always got boyfriends no one really ever put themselves out there for me- even though I’m cute enough and nice. Don’t let shyness stop you from looking for love. Because maybe the the type of guy that likes you is a little shy too.

  36. #636
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    Aww, @Dreymagine, I'm sorry he hurt you. As an interior design / color specialist I like says, "Boring is timeless," which encourages me lol because I consider myself fairly boring especially when I was younger. Reliability seems like a very underrated relational quality. Also, being "judgmental" and having boundaries can look similar but are quite different.

    One time there was a guy I met on an online dating site and we had a lot of good written back and forth. He was articulate and overall intelligent. We swapped stories and opinions, and when we met up he was pretty enthusiastic and complimentary in expressing his liking, going a little bit past the point where I felt it was reasonable. We went on a couple of in-person dates and the third one in he wanted to start getting physical. I told him I wasn't quite ready for that, that I needed time to get there, and his demeanor shifted.

    Medium story short, he ended up berating me by text, calling me (among other things) "primitive" and "repressed." He said he'd had his doubts about me from near the beginning of our conversations but wanted to give it a shot because I seemed nice. He said the only reason anyone these days would want to go slow physically is if they'd been raped. And he was pretty sure no other man would want me.

    Basically, he seemed to be trying to bully me into sleeping with him. It was annoying but also kind of amusing because that doesn't make any sense at all. I told him it's ok to have his preferences but no need to be unkind about it and goodbye.

    Several months later I get a random "I miss our conversations " email from him. I didn't bother replying; he'd shown his colors and they didn't match mine.


    Anyway, this 21-year-old in your story might grow up a little over the next few years and realize some of his insecurities and mistakes, or he might not. He's shown where he's at right now, and you don't deserve to be his stepping stones or punching bag.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  37. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    Blah, the dude in your story sounds so rude—and clueless if he genuinely thinks rape trauma is the only reason a girl would wanna go slow physically.
    It was mostly puzzling to me. Like how or why does he think that's some sort of argument? I mean, what if I _had_ been raped? Is triggering my traumas going to make me want to fall into his arms? For as intelligent and aware as he came across initially, the types of arguments and shaming he tried to utilize really didn't make sense or have a logic to it. He partly acted like he was trying to convince me of his view and partly acted like a 2 year old having a tantrum. Not appealing! Definitely not sexy lol.

    People are weird sometimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dreymagine View Post
    I'm sorry you had to deal with that 3: It sounds like you responded in a way more mature fashion than I did to the bullying, so kudos to you.
    Thanks! It helped that I was not very emotionally attached to him. It also helped a lot that by that point I had become fairly confident in who I was and what I wanted, so it upset me less than it would have when I was 19. Much like you, though, I did do some venting at the time.

    Personally, I think you're handling it well. You're processing it and you've learned things. I'd give you a hug if you were a hugging person and nearby.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Thinking aloud.. It’s really hard to tell if you fancy someone..when a. You know their type…b. You meet them on a dating app.

    You can’t trust your instincts as much.

    I think I can tell when I need to be careful..e.g if they’re really hot (rare).

    but maybe first impressions are important too..I’m not sure I’ve ever fancied a dual who ‘grew on me’. There was one guy I thought was cute..but honestly he sounded like a bit of a wannabe player and I’m not sure he would have been right for me

    Dating is your 30s is hard. People are either still insecure..or still looking for the ‘the one’..
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 07-09-2022 at 03:03 PM.

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    The dual I had some dates with turned out to be kinda weird. It was a confusing and interesting situation..I had a lot of empathy for this person but we had significant communication problems. I think we were too similar in a way-he was quiet and anxious and softly spoken. I think I have to go on a date with a non-dual now, because I keep getting distracted by duals and I told myself I wanted to meet someone by summer. Also..I think if you date other people..even if you do still chat to duals..it’s maybe better because you can be more casual about it..and that’s ok..coz it’s a lot to pressure talking to duals and it can go wrong easily/feel too stressful.

    plus there’s a sweet guy who seems keen and is making me laugh………
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 07-12-2022 at 07:55 AM.

  40. #640

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Thinking aloud.. It’s really hard to tell if you fancy someone..when a. You know their type…b. You meet them on a dating app.

    You can’t trust your instincts as much.

    I think I can tell when I need to be careful..e.g if they’re really hot (rare).

    but maybe first impressions are important too..I’m not sure I’ve ever fancied a dual who ‘grew on me’. There was one guy I thought was cute..but honestly he sounded like a bit of a wannabe player and I’m not sure he would have been right for me

    Dating is your 30s is hard. People are either still insecure..or still looking for the ‘the one’..
    I feel like it's hard to pick someone I like if I know their type. Like I find them attractive, might think they are cool, but if I know their type I start thinking of how the ITR will play out instead of just seeing for myself. It's harder to allow myself to like someone I actually like if I know their type.

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